Mayock on WGR

[aristocrat]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brees is a different level.  And the "bad defense" that stopped him winning was not just below average like Washington's (28th in ypg and 19th in ppy in 2016; 21st ypg and 27th ppg in 2017) it was all time historically bad. The 2015 and 2016 New Orleans Saints defense is the worst 2 year defensive run in NFL history.  It's a fact... give Brees a defense better than 27th in the league and he makes the playoffs 100% of the time.  

 

The Rivers comparison is a better one.  But Rivers, until this season, had no running game, no defense and no healthy weapons.  The one thing that Cousins had plenty of in 2015 and 2016 was weapons.  Admittedly that disappeared in 2017 too and I actually think made his 2017 season more impressive.  A poor man's Philip Rivers is pretty much what I think Cousins is.  

 

My overall point is that it takes a team to win in this league. Consistent drafting and on all sides of the ball. If we have carpenter from last year we win what? 5 games?  Wilson would get all these clutch drives in the fourth when his team was down 9-7 and he scores to win 14-7 and he's a hero. Meanwhile his defense held the opposing team to under 10 points. If our d can fill some holes and get back to a few years ago under schwartz and you combine it with a top 10 or better offense you have a lights out team. 

[billspro]

Mike White is going to be the steal of the class in round 2. Happy that Mayock likes him because of the anticipation he throws with, that is what I like about him.

[BuffaloHokie13]

21 minutes ago, Loosh said:

As much I'd love to see Cousins here, there's NO chance in Hades that he will want to come to Buffalo.   The weather, a defensive minded coach, worst WR group in the league.   He'll be able to chose between Denver, Arizona, Jets, possibly Jacksonville....I'd bet he moves on to Arizona. 

The weather? He's a Michigan guy, he's not bothered by the weather.

 

The WR group was bad last year, but they added to it. You just need to hope they're healthy. But if you have 16 games of Benjamin, Jones, Streater, Thompson (maybe), McCoy, Clay, plus an FA then there are worse groups. The issue this year was availability. The best guys on the list were acquired mid-season and injured for a portion of the year.

 

Defensive HC is an issue?

Denver - Defensive HC

Arizona - Defensive HC & First time HC

Jets - Defensive HC

Jacksonville - A HC who is quoted saying that ideally his QB would throw 0 times per game.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

Mike White is going to be the steal of the class in round 2. Happy that Mayock likes him because of the anticipation he throws with, that is what I like about him.

 

So why do scouts have him going in round 4-5 then?

[billspro]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So why do scouts have him going in round 4-5 then?

 

Its early, I bet most of the media will have him in round two by the time the draft roles around.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

Its early, I bet most of the media will have him in round two by the time the draft roles around.

 

The media has what, 6 QB going in the top 20 picks this year?

 

Never say never, but I think >3 QB in the first 20 picks has happened 2x (2011 and 1999) and neither time was particularly encouraging.

[Direhard Fan]

NO-- Not my Christmas Club money.  Do it!

[2003Contenders]

The going rate for a starting QB is what it is. Jimmy G just signed a contract that will pay him about $27.5 M per season. Kirk Cousins is going to sign a contract that will put him in the same stratosphere.

 

For those complaining about the $ it would cost to bring in Cousins, think about this: last year the Bears payed nearly $15 M for Mike Glennon. Yes, Mike Glennon -- and then they traded up a spot to draft Trubisky high in the first round AFTER signing him. If the Bills elect to move on from Tyrod, who will cost about $16 M in 2018 if they keep him, they will have to spend about that much money for even a "bridge QB" (Bradford or whomever) in ADDITION to the dead money for releasing/trading Tyrod.

 

Realize also that the cap can be navigated by smart pencil-pushers. For example, there is some dead money (e.g. the un-amortized $ for Dareus and hypothetically speaking Tyrod) that will clear the books after 2018, meaning that the Cousins contract can be structured to push much of the cap hit BEYOND 2018. And the Pegulas' have the deep pockets to pay the contract in such a way that an up-front signing bonus (which can be spread out over the life of the contract) can help negate the 2018 cap impact.

 

That is why I am on board with Plan A being a full court press to attract Cousins -- which will also allow the team to hang onto all four of their picks in the first two rounds, none of which would have to be devoted to a QB pick. That's four players that could hopefully be immediate contributors at a controlled cost. The controlled cost for the 4 players also helps to negate the $ that would have had to be spent in free agency at those respective positions and further mitigates the $ spent on Cousins.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

do you hate the idea of success?

 

I'm sure that's what Washington was saying 4 years ago when they made Cousins then starter.  26-30 and 1 winning season later, they replaced him with....Alex Smith.

 

They must have gotten tired of all that success.

 

4 hours ago, H2o said:

If we do grab Cousins in FA, forget the cost which as someone mentioned could be a bargain in 2-3 years, he would be the best QB we have had since Jim Kelly. He's definitely an upgrade over Tyrod, a massive upgrade as a passer. It would also allow us to address many of our other needs with all of those draft picks. It could truly turn out to be the elevation of this franchise from scraping to get in to actually contending in the AFC for many years to come. 

  

 

The Bills current QB is the best QB since Jim Kelly....so what? What other team has Cousins made a contender for years?  The Redskins were 10-6 with RG3, then he flamed out so they figured Cousins was just what they needed.  And....?

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, billspro said:

Mike White is going to be the steal of the class in round 2. Happy that Mayock likes him because of the anticipation he throws with, that is what I like about him.

 

I'll be surprised if he's drafted before round 3. 

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm sure that's what Washington was saying 4 years ago when they made Cousins then starter.  26-30 and 1 winning season later, they replaced him with....Alex Smith.

 

They must have gotten tired of all that success.

 

 

The Bills current QB is the best QB since Jim Kelly....so what? What other team has Cousins made a contender for years?  The Redskins were 10-6 with RG3, then he flamed out so they figured Cousins was just what they needed.  And....?

Kirk Cousins' last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats

 

Tyrod Taylor's last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/tyrodtaylor/2495240/careerstats

 

Cousins is clearly the better QB and is mobile enough as well. He would be an upgrade over Tyrod, hence the best QB for us since Kelly. 

 

 

 

 

[Fadingpain]

5 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

People don’t realize in 4/5 years the deal Cousins signs this offseason will a bargain.  

I have a car I'd like to sell you.

 

Please ignore the fact that it is 20% overpriced.

 

Think of it this way!  In 5 years it will be perfectly priced and you can consider yourself to have gotten a good deal!
 

6 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Sign cousins and use your draft picks, that’s the best option for sure. Just think how getting 4 starters in the first 2 rounds sounds. plus a top 10 QB 

Just make sure to draft the right 4 players.

 

What if your 4 picks are Cyrus Kouandjio, Reggie Ragland, Shaq Lawson, and Zay Jones?

 

Those "4 starters" don't look so great now do they?  

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, H2o said:

Kirk Cousins' last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats

 

Tyrod Taylor's last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/tyrodtaylor/2495240/careerstats

 

Cousins is clearly the better QB and is mobile enough as well. He would be an upgrade over Tyrod, hence the best QB for us since Kelly. 

 

He compiles numbers, but that certainly has not translated into any consistent team success for Washington. 

[BigBuff423]

8 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

I have a car I'd like to sell you.

 

Please ignore the fact that it is 20% overpriced.

 

Think of it this way!  In 5 years it will be perfectly priced and you can consider yourself to have gotten a good deal!
 

Just make sure to draft the right 4 players.

 

What if your 4 picks are Cyrus Kouandjio, Reggie Ragland, Shaq Lawson, and Zay Jones?

 

Those "4 starters" don't look so great now do they?  

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

 

Kujo, bust (so far), that I"ll give you....as for Ragland, he was drafted for Rex's scheme, so trading him for a 4th was just a necessary business move, but he looks the part so far in KC and he's a 2nd rounder, so you might want to wait on that one....Lawson was a very good run stopper but yes, he's been largely unhealthy but still young and hard to tell what he could become with hopefully the right (new) athletic trainers and with a HC who knows how to use him. 

 

As for Zay....c'mon, really? You're throwing the guy under the bus after his Rookie year? He struggled, of course...but then you find out he had a shoulder injury the entire year AND he was a Rookie. Look at the Rookie numbers, without injury mind you, of the top 10 All-Time greats....a couple were staggering and obvious they would be eventual HOFers, i.e. Moss, but others did NOT look like they would amount to much after their first year. Let's at least give him a second season before we're throwing in the towel. 

[Kelly the Dog]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

I like Mayock for what he brings in his role as a media analyst, but that’s as far as it goes. He is not a scout and doesn’t possess a fraction of the insight on all these players as scouts and other personnel evaluators do. It’s just not his full time gig. I take everything he says with a grain of salt. From Sanchez over Stafford to Gabbert over Newton and the many players at positions in between over the years, his “evaluations” leave a lot to be desired. 

I bet you could take the very best scouts of all time and find almost as many of those things. He's very good. He watches a ton of tape. Granted not as much as a full time scout but pretty close. It's likely an 70 hour a week job for him. And he looks for the same things scouts look for, outside of specific team needs and wants only the scouts know.

[707BillsFan]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

You're not the first person to say this. Why do you think this? Contracts can be structured a number of ways. The Bills can sign Cousins if they choose to

I'm quite aware they can structure the deal anyway, anyhow. This years cap space is minuscule  compared to next years current # (31 (40 if we dump Tyrod) vs 86). Back load the deal (ala Stafford), less the first year...more toward the end.  I'm all for it. Build the rest of the team via draft and a few low priced FA's and let them take off. I don't think it'll happen, but don't want them to get into a position where they end up in a cap space hell in a couple years w/ a bad contract for Cousins. 

 

With that said though, I think they'll go cheap and pick up a QB in the draft so they don't have that huge contract taking up all that space. They'll hope they get lucky and things will work out as opposed to taking the "sure" thing. This is a tough one (because we've all been waiting for that one QB to take over since Kelly retired), but I hope they don't get rid of all the picks we've accumulated to move up. We all have our opinions and the only ones that matters are in the Bills FO. I feel I'm all over the board on this, but that's my one thing I know for sure.....keep the picks and hope for the best regarding drafting a QB. 

[H2o]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He compiles numbers, but that certainly has not translated into any consistent team success for Washington. 

My point is he clearly is the better passing QB. Football is a team sport. I think our team would be better off with Cousins at QB. He'd be an upgrade. 

[ndirish1978]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Because they realize that Cousins puts up stats more than helps a team win games when its crunch time

 

Or perhaps because after they jerked him around for 2 seasons they realized he had no intention of signing a long term contract? But you know, go with your narrative. 

[Gordio]

5 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

Thanks for posting this. The audio is up.

 

It was just a speculative comment IMO.

 

We dont have the $ to pay out 30 mill a year for QB

 

I like what he said about Baker. I hppe that doesnt stop McBeane from drafting him tho.

 

I am curious as to why you think we don't have the money to sign Cousins.  Save the bull **** about how we need to spend it in other areas.  All starts with the QB brother. 

[Herb62]

He also liked EJ (said he was the best of his draft class).  He might have been right that class sucked hard.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

My point is he clearly is the better passing QB. Football is a team sport. I think our team would be better off with Cousins at QB. He'd be an upgrade. 

 

No one could credibly refute these points.  The key question for me is he a QB capable of carrying the franchise such that he makes those around him better?  For me that answer is no and I would not commit the necessary dollars it will take to secure his services. 

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No one could credibly refute these points.  The key question for me is he a QB capable of carrying the franchise such that he makes those around him better?  For me that answer is no and I would not commit the necessary dollars it will take to secure his services. 

 dumb post. you go on and on about jimmy g but unwilling to commit to cousins? 

[Wideright24]

Old news. Dunkirk Don told us this months ago. Follow the money. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 dumb post. you go on and on about jimmy g but unwilling to commit to cousins? 

 

 It's my value judgment. Garoppolo entered the lineup for a one win team and subsequently led his team to five straight victories. 

 

It's seems these people are also dumb because with the exception of one they all see Jimmy G as a better QB as well. Feel free to educate yourself:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915616/article/jimmy-garoppolo-vs-kirk-cousins-which-quarterback-is-more-valuable

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I bet you could take the very best scouts of all time and find almost as many of those things. He's very good. He watches a ton of tape. Granted not as much as a full time scout but pretty close. It's likely an 70 hour a week job for him. And he looks for the same things scouts look for, outside of specific team needs and wants only the scouts know.

If there were a way to qualify that bet, I’d take you up on it in a heartbeat. 

 

He may LOOK for the same things scouts do, but I will never be convinced he SEES the same things scouts do simply because he doesn’t have the time to see it on the same level. His career as a color analyst, sideline reporter,  play by play guy, etc. during the season simply doesn’t allow for the in depth person evaluations required to validate what is seen on video. Video is just the tip of the iceberg in the process.

 

Look, I like Mayock; think he’s the best at what he does for what his job entails. 

2 minutes ago, Wideright24 said:

Old news. Dunkirk Don told us this months ago. Follow the money. 

And real estate transactions. Gotta follow the land deals or get left out. 

 

I now own most of the Route 36 corridor through Mt. Morris as a result. 

[Doc Brown]

If you're going to overspend for somebody, make sure it's a QB.  I'd be elated if Cousins signed here.

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 It's my value judgment. Garoppolo entered the lineup for a one win team and subsequently led his team to five straight victories. 

 

It's seems these people are also dumb because with the exception of one they all see Jimmy G as a better QB as well. Feel free to educate yourself:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915616/article/jimmy-garoppolo-vs-kirk-cousins-which-quarterback-is-more-valuable

 

beat the bears, texans, jags in a crazy no defense kind of game,  a bad titans team, and the rams with sean mannion. so on the scale of good wins those are some garbage wins. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, aristocrat said:

beat the bears, texans, jags in a crazy no defense kind of game,  a bad titans team, and the rams with sean mannion. so on the scale of good wins those are some garbage wins. 

 

 Speaking of dumb posts.  You like Cousins better, then explain how he's a better QB.  Why hasn't he lifted his team since he's so special? 

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 Speaking of dumb posts.  You like Cousins better, then explain how he's a better QB.  Why hasn't he lifted his team since he's so special? 

 

jimmy g also had 7 tds and,....5 picks in those games. that's a lot of picks against some bad teams. so defend the schedule he played.  

 

football is a team sport. cousins has a proven record being a successful guy. how come brees or rivers or stafford can't elevate their teams?(brees before this past year). It's because it's a team game and you need to be good on all sides of the ball and the skins werent. 

[2003Contenders]

13 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 Speaking of dumb posts.  You like Cousins better, then explain how he's a better QB.  Why hasn't he lifted his team since he's so special? 

 

Well, two years ago Cousins did lead the Redskins into the playoffs in a pretty tough division. The Redskins made some horrific off-season moves in which they let go of his top two receivers (Garcon and Jackson) and replaced them with garbage. His favorite target (TE Jordan) was out most of the year. The running game was non-existent, as the team was down to their 3rd string RB by season's end.

 

Yet, despite all of these issues, Cousins still managed to pass for well over 4,000 yards and 27 TD passes -- plus 4 rushing TDs,  the same number as the highly mobile Tyrod.

 

Imagine what Cousins could do with a weapon like Shady in the backfield?

Edited February 12, 2018 by 2003Contenders

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

jimmy g also had 7 tds and,....5 picks in those games. that's a lot of picks against some bad teams. so defend the schedule he played.  

 

football is a team sport. cousins has a proven record being a successful guy. how come brees or rivers or stafford can't elevate their teams?(brees before this past year). It's because it's a team game and you need to be good on all sides of the ball and the skins werent. 

 

You can't describe the attributes that make Cousins a better player, so you respond by asking me a question.  Should have been easy since you claim my post was dumb. Next you'll be telling me how good Cousins is because of his three 4K yard seasons.   Again, compare the two QBs in terms of strengths and weaknesses and tell me why Cousins is better instead of dodging. 

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, 2003Contenders said:

 

Well, two years ago Cousins did lead the Redskins into the playoffs in a pretty tough division. The Redskins made some horrific off-season moves in which they let go of his top two receivers (Garcon and Jackson) and replaced them with garbage. His favorite target (TE Jordan) was out most of the year. The running game was non-existent, as the team was down to their 3rd string RB by season's end.

 

Yet, despite all of these issues, Cousins still managed to pass for well over 4,000 yards and 27 TD passes -- plus 4 rushing TDs,  the same number as the highly mobile Tyrod.

 

Imagine what Cousins could do with a weapon like Shady in the backfield?

 

nice

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, 2003Contenders said:

 

Well, two years ago Cousins did lead the Redskins into the playoffs in a pretty tough division. The Redskins made some horrific off-season moves in which they let go of his top two receivers (Garcon and Jackson) and replaced them with garbage. His favorite target (TE Jordan) was out most of the year. The running game was non-existent, as the team was down to their 3rd string RB by season's end.

 

Yet, despite all of these issues, Cousins still managed to pass for well over 4,000 yards and 27 TD passes -- plus 4 rushing TDs,  the same number as the highly mobile Tyrod.

 

Imagine what Cousins could do with a weapon like Shady in the backfield?

 

IIRC, they won the division that year with a 9-7 record.  Doesn't seem so tough to me. 

 

Again, Cousins is pretty good. For the money he'll command, I want great and he simply isn't IMO. 

[billspro]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The media has what, 6 QB going in the top 20 picks this year?

 

Never say never, but I think >3 QB in the first 20 picks has happened 2x (2011 and 1999) and neither time was particularly encouraging.

 

I think Mayfield, Rosen, and Darnold go round 1 for sure. I think there is a pretty good chance that Allen goes in round 1. Jackson might sneak into the first round, I think he will go in round 2 along with Rudolph. I think White might sneak into round 2 but may be taken in Round 3. Falk and Lauletta probably go in round 4. 

 

I could be wrong, I really think we will see at least seven guys go in the first three rounds. It is a very deep QB class this year, it would not surprise me to see some draft records in terms of quantity taken. 

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You can't describe the attributes that make Cousins a better player, so you respond by asking me a question.  Should have been easy since you claim my post was dumb. Next you'll be telling me how good Cousins is because of his three 4K yard seasons.   Again, compare the two QBs in terms of strengths and weaknesses and tell me why Cousins is better instead of dodging. 

 

cousins has 3 years of starting where he has shown he can make all the throws and protect the ball.  jimmy played 5 games against poor opponents and could not protect the ball with 5 picks which would be like 18 over a season. You lose your job over that. Cousins has show he can be 2nd in the nfl with great wrs and a few spots down in yards when he has garbage for wr's.  The skins defense has been terrible so he's in a situation where he plays from behind cause his defense gets torched.  Like any qb give him a great team and if they have talent they will win. 

[Jay_Fixit]

15 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

jimmy g also had 7 tds and,....5 picks in those games. that's a lot of picks against some bad teams. so defend the schedule he played.  

 

football is a team sport. cousins has a proven record being a successful guy. how come brees or rivers or stafford can't elevate their teams?(brees before this past year). It's because it's a team game and you need to be good on all sides of the ball and the skins werent. 

Absolutely.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

You can't describe the attributes that make Cousins a better player, so you respond by asking me a question.  Should have been easy since you claim my post was dumb. Next you'll be telling me how good Cousins is because of his three 4K yard seasons.   Again, compare the two QBs in terms of strengths and weaknesses and tell me why Cousins is better instead of dodging. 

My argument, in this case, would be that Cousins is the significantly safer bet. Not that he is better, but that you have a sample size of 48 starts over the past 3 seasons. He has some plusses and some minuses, but ultimately he has been highly productive all 3 years and the production has not just been due to volume. Looking strictly at efficiency stats, he has a YPA of 7.80 over those 3 years (good for 5th among QBs with at least 450 attempts), he has a TD% of 4.80% (13th), he has a TD/TO ratio of 1.96, but that also comes with an average of 2 TDs per game played. Only 5 QBs in the league are responsible for more TDs per game than Cousins over the past 3 years. Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Newton, and Brees (Russ Wilson is tied).

[aristocrat]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

IIRC, they won the division that year with a 9-7 record.  Doesn't seem so tough to me. 

 

Again, Cousins is pretty good. For the money he'll command, I want great and he simply isn't IMO. 

 

how do you go from defending jimmy g to the death and these comments on cousins. makes zero sense. 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

cousins has 3 years of starting where he has shown he can make all the throws and protect the ball.  jimmy played 5 games against poor opponents and could not protect the ball with 5 picks which would be like 18 over a season. You lose your job over that. Cousins has show he can be 2nd in the nfl with great wrs and a few spots down in yards when he has garbage for wr's.  The skins defense has been terrible so he's in a situation where he plays from behind cause his defense gets torched.  Like any qb give him a great team and if they have talent they will win. 

 

That's your breakdown of their strengths and weaknesses?   Just admit you haven't watched either of them play very much and you're going on stats.  It's okay. 

[aristocrat]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's your breakdown of their strengths and weaknesses?   Just admit you haven't watched either of them play very much and you're going on stats.  It's okay. 

 

i've watched both of them play. jags and rams game for jimmy. quite a few more for cousins. the difference between the 3rd best qb and the 10th is like splitting hairs. not too much different.  Just because i pointed out flaws in your jimmy g crusade doesn't mean you get all butthurt.  cousins is a sure top 10 qb in the league.  jimmy is a gamble.