Mayock on WGR

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The lack of success that Washington has had, as you describe it, doesn't mean that he was a primary reason for it. The OL was battered with injuries and their run game was less than mediocre. Cousin was very often under duress and still he played well. As with Buffalo his receiver corps was very mediocre. You may find many liabilities in his game but without question Cousins is the qb who will be most in demand in the market. When he is allowed to officially hit the market there will be plenty of teams competing for his service. 

 

I have argued not to sign him because of the contract it will take to sign him. But if he was signed the Bills would be a significantly better team and instantly be a more serious team. 

 

 

Allowed to hit the market?  He's available, for all intents and purposes.

 

What will happen is that the teams that need a QB the most will take one in the first round of this QB rich draft.  That will leave far fewer teams who will be bidding for his services and that will drop his quote.

32 minutes ago, H2o said:

Oh yes, because all of the other FA options are better than Kirk. We are not ransoming the farm to move up to get Mayfield, Rosen, or Darnold. I just don't see it happening. I would rather have Cousins than Rudolph or Jackson as Cousins has already proven he can play pretty well in the NFL. If we could have a QB come in and put up those numbers imagine how the rest of the offense would look. I don't think that's setting the bar low at all my friend.

 

Washington is a team. Teams win as such and with solid coaching at every phase. Gruden hasn't really shown that much, the team lacks talent on both sides of the ball, and Kirk isn't a one man show. Some great QB's have been on some not so great teams at times over the years. 

 

 

Don't you think that's what the Redskins thought after saying "hey, we went 10-6 with RG3,  Cousins should put us over the top for the long term".  He wasn't a difference maker.

 

Some team while pay a lot for him.  If he's not signed before the draft, you will know his market value then.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Allowed to hit the market?  He's available, for all intents and purposes.

 

What will happen is that the teams that need a QB the most will take one in the first round of this QB rich draft.  That will leave far fewer teams who will be bidding for his services and that will drop his quote.

 

UFA opens on March 14th about six weeks before the draft on April 26th. Cousins will be signed quickly and likely have a deal agreed to during the legal tampering period that begins on March 12th. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

UFA opens on March 14th about six weeks before the draft on April 26th. Cousins will be signed quickly and likely have a deal agreed to during the legal tampering period that begins on March 12th. 

 

 

by whom?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

UFA opens on March 14th about six weeks before the draft on April 26th. Cousins will be signed quickly and likely have a deal agreed to during the legal tampering period that begins on March 12th. 

WEO reluctantly thanks you for the clarification. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

by whom?

 

Guessing the NYJ, DEN, ARZ, CLE, and possibly MIN will be the primary suitors. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

by whom?

There are plenty of teams interested in him. Denver, the Jets, Jacksonville, reports Minnesota might be interested, maybe Buffalo, Arizona, possibly Cleveland are possibilities. I think Denver is a likely landing spot. 

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

WEO reluctantly thanks you for the clarification. 

 

He is very welcome of course. 

[ColoradoBills]

41 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

They didnt jerk him around, they didnt believe he was worth the money. They still don't. Neither do a lot of other people, FWIW

 

Then why did the Redskins tag him for way more money than they thought he was worth, not one time but two?

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Guessing the NYJ, DEN, ARZ, CLE, and possibly MIN will be the primary suitors. 

 

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are plenty of teams interested in him. Denver, the Jets, Jacksonville, reports Minnesota might be interested, maybe Buffalo, Arizona, possibly Cleveland are possibilities. I think Denver is a likely landing spot. 

 

 

Why would Minn not pay Keenum, but break the bank for a stat accumulator like Cousins?  I don't get that at all. 

 

Why would Cleveland, with 2 top 4 picks, blow their budget on Cousins?  He's not taking them to the playoffs in the net 2 years (when no doubt he will cost them the most)?

 

Denver maybe.  That's the kind of move Elway would do.

 

AZ will take a QB with their top pick.

 

 

[Da webster guy]

10 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

And I can't speak for everyone either, but I would really like to know from those who are against spending the money on Cousins, what opportunities they think signing Cousins would cause us to lose out on.

Thank you.

Spending big is only a bad idea if you miss on other game changing players you'd have signed otherwise.   Plus subtract Tyrods cap hit from Cousins and its a no brainer.

Plus he gives you back at least 1 first round pick that you'd be burning on a rookie qb to use elsewhere to help the team.  So by signing him you get TWO players, one of which is a proven qb

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why would Minn not pay Keenum, but break the bank for a stat accumulator like Cousins?  I don't get that at all. 

 

Why would Cleveland, with 2 top 4 picks, blow their budget on Cousins?  He's not taking them to the playoffs in the net 2 years (when no doubt he will cost them the most)?

 

Denver maybe.  That's the kind of move Elway would do.

 

AZ will take a QB with their top pick.

 

MIN already has a SB caliber team and Cousins is better than Keenum.

 

CLE has loads of cap space along with premium picks to build their roster.

 

ARZ has offensive talent in all purpose RB David Johnson along with a good receiving corps. 

 

DEN might want to take a shot with him before their window closes. 

 

We'll see.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

MIN already has a SB caliber team and Cousins is better than Keenum.

 

CLE has loads of cap space along with premium picks to build their roster.

 

ARZ has offensive talent in all purpose RB David Johnson along with a good receiving corps. 

 

DEN might want to take a shot with him before their window closes. 

 

We'll see.

 

 

Good points except the first re: Keenum. vs. Cousins.  Look at Cousins vs the Giants to end the season.  He beats Philly on the Vikings??

 

zero point zero chance.  Keenum was the Vikes best shot.  Still is.  

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

Why would Minn not pay Keenum, but break the bank for a stat accumulator like Cousins?  I don't get that at all. 

 

Why would Cleveland, with 2 top 4 picks, blow their budget on Cousins?  He's not taking them to the playoffs in the net 2 years (when no doubt he will cost them the most)?

 

Denver maybe.  That's the kind of move Elway would do.

 

AZ will take a QB with their top pick.

 

 

Keenum had a very good year but it was an aberration. Would the Vikes be willing to pay him  premium salary for a one year wonder? The issue is the size of the contract with him. If he can get a heavy duty contract from the market from a team such as Arizona then Minn might consider Cousins. I'm not saying it is probable but it is possible. 

 

Cleveland would certainly be interested in Cousins if the organization decides for a more immediate competitiveness. They have a gargantuan cap space. If they take this route they then have a tremendous amount of flexibility with their two high draft picks. 

 

Jacksonville could be another team interested in Cousins. They would probably have to shed some contracts but he certainly would be a major upgrade over Bortles. The Jaguars are a serious team with a lot of defensive talent. Add in Cousins and now you have a well balanced team that moves into the premium level. 

 

Ariens has been under seige for the past couple of years. He might want a quicker answer at qb than bringing in a rookie qb. 

 

Most people do believe that Denver is the most likely spot. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Good points except the first re: Keenum. vs. Cousins.  Look at Cousins vs the Giants to end the season.  He beats Philly on the Vikings??

 

zero point zero chance.  Keenum was the Vikes best shot.  Still is.  

 

I think Washington was in running for the bus mode in that game, but overall Cousins is the better QB.  The clock has struck twelve on Keenum and I believe he'll be back to the journeyman that he's been prior to this season. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Keenum had a very good year but it was an aberration. Would the Vikes be willing to pay him  premium salary for a one year wonder? The issue is the size of the contract with him. If he can get a heavy duty contract from the market from a team such as Arizona then Minn might consider Cousins. I'm not saying it is probable but it is possible. 

 

Cleveland would certainly be interested in Cousins if the organization decides for a more immediate competitiveness. They have a gargantuan cap space. If they take this route they then have a tremendous amount of flexibility with their two high draft picks. 

 

Jacksonville could be another team interested in Cousins. They would probably have to shed some contracts but he certainly would be a major upgrade over Bortles. The Jaguars are a serious team with a lot of defensive talent. Add in Cousins and now you have a well balanced team that moves into the premium level. 

 

Ariens has been under seige for the past couple of years. He might want a quicker answer at qb than bringing in a rookie qb. 

 

Most people do believe that Denver is the most likely spot. 

 

Cousins had a very good year...in 2016.  He would cost the Vikings a ton more than Keenum.  They know exactly what they have re; their system in Keenum.  They would HAVE to conclude that Keenum was the reason they were not in the SB>  Obviously, given that their D laid down in the NFCC game, they cannot conclude this.

 

Cleveland is not a year or two away, so why bring in Cousins?

 

Jay is owing big money to Borltes this year.  They will cut him?

 

Ariens retired.

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I think Washington was in running for the bus mode in that game, but overall Cousins is the better QB.  The clock has struck twelve on Keenum and I believe he'll be back to the journeyman that he's been prior to this season. 

 

As I said above, Minny would have to believe that what they saw every day in Keenum was an illusion....and what they saw in Cousins at the end of the season was, what, something that would seal the deal for them?

 

I don't get that.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Cousins had a very good year...in 2016.  He would cost the Vikings a ton more than Keenum.  They know exactly what they have re; their system in Keenum.  They would HAVE to conclude that Keenum was the reason they were not in the SB>  Obviously, given that their D laid down in the NFCC game, they cannot conclude this.

 

Cleveland is not a year or two away, so why bring in Cousins?

 

Jay is owing big money to Borltes this year.  They will cut him?

 

Ariens retired.

 

As I said above, Minny would have to believe that what they saw every day in Keenum was an illusion....and what they saw in Cousins at the end of the season was, what, something that would seal the deal for them?

 

I don't get that.

 

Why would they boil it down to one meaningless game at the end of a miserable season instead of examining his entire body of work these last three seasons? 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Why would they boil it down to one meaningless game at the end of a miserable season instead of examining his entire body of work these last three seasons? 

 

Sure, they will look at the impact he had on a team that went 10-3 with RG3 before him and say, "what impact did he have there?  What will be the improvement over Keenum here?"

 

How do they answer that?

 

They would have to look at Keenum and conclude he was the barrier to the SB and that Cousins would push them over the top.  I just honestly don't see how they conclude that.  They are with Keenum every day.  They have only scouted Cousins.  

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Sure, they will look at the impact he had on a team that went 10-3 with RG3 before him and say, "what impact did he have there?  What will be the improvement over Keenum here?"

 

How do they answer that?

 

They would have to look at Keenum and conclude he was the barrier to the SB and that Cousins would push them over the top.  I just honestly don't see how they conclude that.  They are with Keenum every day.  They have only scouted Cousins.  

 

Cousins is a better downfield passer than Keenum and the Vikings offense would create more big plays from Thielen and Diggs IMO. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Cousins is a better downfield passer than Keenum and the Vikings offense would create more big plays from Thielen and Diggs IMO. 

 

 

Keenum created Theilen the 100 catch, 1380 yd WR....

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Keenum created Theilen the 100 catch, 1380 yd WR....

 

Thielen has been on the rise and would have produced irrespective of Keenum's presence.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Thielen has been on the rise and would have produced irrespective of Keenum's presence.

 

Now there is now way to conclude that.  With Keenum, Theilen's targets went from 92 to...142! 

 

You can speculate, but it happened with Keenum.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Now there is now way to conclude that.  With Keenum, Theilen's targets went from 92 to...142! 

 

You can speculate, but it happened with Keenum.

 

The way I see it Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and company made Keenum look good for the 1st time in his career along with the coaching of Shumur.  Can he repeat the feat?  I'm skeptical. 

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The way I see it Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and company made Keenum look good for the 1st time in his career along with the coaching of Shumur.  Can he repeat the feat?  I'm skeptical. 

Diggs had his best year (TDs, YPA)

 

It's a symbiosis.  And I don't see why it can't be repeated.

 

As opposed to bringing in the guy who drove that redskin "bus" that saw them sputter 3-5 the second half of the season. 

 

Sorry, I love me some Keenum.  I was high on homecoming out of Houston where he threw for a billion yards.  No problems going downfield at all.

 

Put it this way...why ask if Keenumcan do it again instead of thinking about it this way:  this is the first opportunity he has really been given the opportunity to "do it" on a decent team--start the (nearly) whole season, ever.  And he did so much better than anyone expected.  Now you say "yeah but Kirk Cousins!"??

Edited February 13, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's a symbiosis.  And I don't see why it can't be repeated.

 

As opposed to bringing in the guy who drove that redskin "bus" that saw them sputter 3-5 the second half of the season. 

 

Sorry, I love me some Keenum.  I was high on homecoming out of Houston where he threw for a billion yards.  No problems going downfield at all.

 

Put it this way...why ask if Keenumcan do it again instead of thinking about it this way:  this is the first opportunity he has really been given the opportunity to "do it" on a decent team--start the (nearly) whole season, ever.  And he did so much better than anyone expected.  Now you say "yeah but Kirk Cousins!"??

 

Nice that you admit your bias and he did have problems hitting receivers downfield this season.  We'll see where he lands in 2018 and how he performs. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Nice that you admit your bias and he did have problems hitting receivers downfield this season.  We'll see where he lands in 2018 and how he performs. 

 

I have no problem admitting bias--because it does not alter facts.

 

Diggs had his best year so far with Keenum.  

 

Keenum completed 67% of his passes. 

[26CornerBlitz]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I have no problem admitting bias--because it does not alter facts.

 

Diggs had his best year so far with Keenum.  

 

Keenum completed 67% of his passes. 

 

The fact is he struggled with the Texans and the Rams before landing in a perfect situation.   I fear the clock has struck twelve and the carriage has become a pumpkin. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mat68]

10 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

I just don't get people who continue to view qb as the cheap option if there is ever a position you spend big money on it's the QB position without your team is just mucking thru the seasons.  I hear the biggest argument is they would rather spend the money on other positions, well sorry but without a QB your chances of playoffs go down hrmmm maybe there is a team who missed the playoffs for 17yrs because they brought in big FA other than a QB that was worth something.

 

Cousins would be a welcome addition to this team and they can fill other positions with the draft.

I see your point.  Im with you.  Sign Cousins or you best trade up to the top 5 for one of those Qbs.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The fact is he struggled with the Texans and the Rams before landing in a perfect situation.   I fear the clock has struck twelve and the carriage has become a pumpkin. 

 

 

he struggled when tossed into starting positions on sketchy teams.  Those teams were not as good as Cousins has started for the past 4 years....

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

he struggled when tossed into starting positions on sketchy teams.  Those teams were not as good as Cousins has started for the past 4 years....

 

So let's say he lands elsewhere in 2018.  Do you predict he'll stay at the same 2017 level or better?  If so, why? 

Edited February 13, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So let's say he lands elsewhere in 2018.  Do you predict he'll stay at the same 2017 level or better?  If so, why? 

 

 

You see, that';s the point of all of this.  It doesn't matter what he does somewhere else.  He did what he did in Minnesota.   If he goes to Cleveland or Denver, probably not because those teams aren't nearly as good as Minny.

 

Cousins lost more games than he won in DC--over more than 3 seasons.  

 

The real question--in fact the ONLY question--is "is Kirk Cousins going to lead the Viking to the NFCC? The SB?"

 

It's a complete unknown---to the Vikings.  Keenum is anything but an unknown to them.

[Shaw66]

I haven't been participating in this thread.  I just skimmed through it and had one impression:  some people who don't want Cousins make a lot of different arguments.  Not enough wins.  Better receivers. He isnt Brees. Etc.  

 

What they don't talk about is his stats.  The simple fact is that the best QBS are regularly at the top of the basic stats.  Yards, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc.  They dont talk about his stats because he's regularly in the top 10, where all the good QBS are.  How'd he get in the top 10?  Is Jerry Rice on the Redskins playing under a pseudonym?

 

Stats aren't perfect but they're the best measure. The best qbs have the best stats.  Cousins is right there. When Brady Brees and Ben retire he will still be top10 maybe top 5.  

 

Hard to understand why you wouldn't want a top 10 QB on your team.  I thought that was the objective. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You see, that';s the point of all of this.  It doesn't matter what he does somewhere else.  He did what he did in Minnesota.   If he goes to Cleveland or Denver, probably not because those teams aren't nearly as good as Minny.

 

Cousins lost more games than he won in DC--over more than 3 seasons.  

 

The real question--in fact the ONLY question--is "is Kirk Cousins going to lead the Viking to the NFCC? The SB?"

 

It's a complete unknown---to the Vikings.  Keenum is anything but an unknown to them.

 

I don't love Cousins, but I do believe he's better than Keenum. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't been participating in this thread.  I just skimmed through it and had one impression:  some people who don't want Cousins make a lot of different arguments.  Not enough wins.  Better receivers. He isnt Brees. Etc.  

 

What they don't talk about is his stats.  The simple fact is that the best QBS are regularly at the top of the basic stats.  Yards, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, etc.  They dont talk about his stats because he's regularly in the top 10, where all the good QBS are.  How'd he get in the top 10?  Is Jerry Rice on the Redskins playing under a pseudonym?

 

Stats aren't perfect but they're the best measure. The best qbs have the best stats.  Cousins is right there. When Brady Brees and Ben retire he will still be top10 maybe top 5.  

 

Hard to understand why you wouldn't want a top 10 QB on your team.  I thought that was the objective. 

 

Wouldn't you expect a "top 10" QB to have a winning record after 3+ years on a team that wasn't a bottom feeder?  Stats are nice, but for some reason, they don't win a lot of games with his as their QB.  They got worse.

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't love Cousins, but I do believe he's better than Keenum. 

 

 

Agree to disagree.

 

 

Cousins will not be in Minnesota.

[Zerovoltz]

I don't have a dog in this fight but, IF I was in charge and was sitting with pick 21 and 22, Tyrod Taylor under contract, and Kirk Cousins available for only money, you almost have to do what it takes to sign Cousins don't you?  You can't possible know in mid March, how the draft will unfold, and you don't know what QB will be available, or if you'd even be able to find a willing trade partner.  Cousins is a known quantity.  He will cost you 28-30 million, but it's not absurd when viewed from the perspective that QB raises have stayed within the rising cap pretty much....his contract will be high the day he signs it and mid level the day he finishes it.  You'd have to ask yourself if you believe what you MIGHT get on draft day, will be better than Cousins is now and in the future.....how can anyone say right now, that is the case?  You can't. ....that's why you make the effort for Cousins and only resort to the draft and all that manuevering, scouting, and hoping events fall your way ONLY if you made your best effort to get Cousins and he goes elsewhere.

[Schmuggs]

Hmm? Cousins to Buffalo is laughable. Good Joke though. 

[aristocrat]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wouldn't you expect a "top 10" QB to have a winning record after 3+ years on a team that wasn't a bottom feeder?  Stats are nice, but for some reason, they don't win a lot of games with his as their QB.  They got worse.

 

 

Agree to disagree.

 

 

Cousins will not be in Minnesota.

 

When brees had a losing record for a few years what did you think? And rivers? And Stanford?

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

When brees had a losing record for a few years what did you think? And rivers? And Stanford?

 

 

Brees already won a SB by then, and his stats blew Cousins's away even in those years.  He was singlehandedly winning games with an awful defense.

 

Rivers is, like Cousins, a stat accumulator.  Legendary choker.  Another hard pass.

 

I don't know who Stanford is.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 hours ago, Loosh said:

As much I'd love to see Cousins here, there's NO chance in Hades that he will want to come to Buffalo.   The weather, a defensive minded coach, worst WR group in the league.   He'll be able to chose between Denver, Arizona, Jets, possibly Jacksonville....I'd bet he moves on to Arizona. 

 

He did play at Michigan state.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Can we talk about Manock's speech impediment?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Can we talk about Manock's speech impediment?

 

I haven't noticed. What is it?