Mayock on WGR

[26CornerBlitz]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

My argument, in this case, would be that Cousins is the significantly safer bet. Not that he is better, but that you have a sample size of 48 starts over the past 3 seasons. He has some plusses and some minuses, but ultimately he has been highly productive all 3 years and the production has not just been due to volume. Looking strictly at efficiency stats, he has a YPA of 7.80 over those 3 years (good for 5th among QBs with at least 450 attempts), he has a TD% of 4.80% (13th), he has a TD/TO ratio of 1.96, but that also comes with an average of 2 TDs per game played. Only 5 QBs in the league are responsible for more TDs per game than Cousins over the past 3 years. Rodgers, Brady, Luck, Newton, and Brees (Russ Wilson is tied).

 

Safer sure. He'll take you only so far based on what I have seen.  Cousins benefited greatly from having good systems/good coaching with McVay and Gruden.

 

7 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

how do you go from defending jimmy g to the death and these comments on cousins. makes zero sense. 

 

It makes no sense to you yet six of seven people who cover the NFL for a living agree with me and that includes former personnel men, former players including QBs, as well as journalists. 

 

4 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

i've watched both of them play. jags and rams game for jimmy. quite a few more for cousins. the difference between the 3rd best qb and the 10th is like splitting hairs. not too much different.  Just because i pointed out flaws in your jimmy g crusade doesn't mean you get all butthurt.  cousins is a sure top 10 qb in the league.  jimmy is a gamble. 

 

The only one who seems to be butt hurt is you and you chose to initiate with me, but can't even describe the attributes that make Cousins a better QB.  Okay. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Safer sure. He'll take you only so far based on what I have seen.  Cousins benefited greatly from having good systems/good coaching with McVay and Gruden.

I'll be interested to see how Jimmy looks after 41 more starts. He also has a great offensive mind behind him in Shanahan.

 

I will never be able to forget how Cousins completely shredded the Bills in 2015. I was 50 yard line 7th row. 4 Passing TDs and a Rushing TD .

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Safer sure. He'll take you only so far based on what I have seen.  Cousins benefited greatly from having good systems/good coaching with McVay and Gruden.

 

 

It makes no sense to you yet six of seven people who cover the NFL for a living agree with me and that includes former personnel men, former players including QBs, as well as journalists. 

 

 

The only one who seems to be butt hurt is you and you chose to initiate with me, but can't even describe the attributes that make Cousins a better QB.  Okay. 

 

fine what makes jimmy such a better qb than kirk?

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'll be interested to see how Jimmy looks after 41 more starts. He also has a great offensive mind behind him in Shanahan.

 

I will never be able to forget how Cousins completely shredded the Bills in 2015. I was 50 yard line 7th row. 4 Passing TDs and a Rushing TD .

 

Rex Ryan's 2015 D?  He wasn't the only one unfortunately. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[HumbleAndHungry]

U take Taylor off the bills this past season and insert cousins I think that's good for 3 more wins 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

fine what makes jimmy such a better qb than kirk?

 

Better and quicker release, better feet, better under pressure, better and quicker decision maker, better outside the pocket, more accurate, better in the rhythm of an offense, better when a play breaks down and faster going through progressions. 

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Better and quicker release, better feet, better under pressure, better and quicker decision maker, better outside the pocket, more accurate, better in the rhythm of an offense, better when a play breaks down and faster going through progressions. 

 

cool sounds like you took all the classic scouting words and typed them in there.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Rex Ryans 2015 D?  He wasn't the only one unfortunately. 

There were really only 3 standout QB performances against us in 2015. Brady had like 460 & 3 with no picks; Cousins had ~310 4 TDs, 1 Rush TD, No picks; and Hoyer had ~290 3 TD & 1 pick. Next best after that was probably Alex Smith who had 255, 2 & 0.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

cool sounds like you took all the classic scouting words and typed them in there.  

 

I don't care what it sounds like, it's exactly what I see.  Still waiting on you to tell me why Cousins is better based on how he plays. 

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, Finkle Is Einhorn said:

U take Taylor off the bills this past season and insert cousins I think that's good for 3 more wins 

 

Me too. Carolina, Cincinnati, probably the first Patriots game too. Not to mention the Jags playoff game. With zero other changes to the team we would go from a fringe wildcard team to legitimate division contenders. Now add in our 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds plus a couple smart free agency signings, suddenly we are a Super Bowl contender just like that.

Edited February 12, 2018 by HappyDays

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't care what it sounds like, it's exactly what I see.  Still waiting on you to tell me why Cousins is better based on how he plays. 

 

and cousins has a great release, great footwork, has 3 years of starting where he's made every throw, under pressure throws and even rolling out. He also has proven he can make those plays over the past 3 years where jimmy has not. he's played 4 bad teams and one team with a great defense. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Me too. Carolina, Cincinnati, probably the first Patriots game too. Not to mengiom the Jags playoff game. With zero other changes to the team we would go from a fringe wildcard team to legitimate division contenders. Now add in our 5 draft picks in the first 3 rounds plus a couple smart free agency signings, suddenly we are a Super Bowl contender just like that.

Outside of Brady/Rodgers/Brees, no QB was scoring with the garbage that we fielded to catch passes against Cincy once Clay went down. It was so bad that they had to sign Deonte Thompson (a guy who was cut from the Bears, who didn't exactly have elite wr talent on the roster) off the street 2 days after the game.

 

In case people don't remember, here are the WRs:

Zay Jones - 1 Catch, 9 Yards, 6 Targets

Brandon Tate - 2 Catches, 25 Yards, 1 TD, 4 Targets

Andre Holmes - 0 Catches, 1 Target

Kaelin Clay - 0 Catches 1 Target

Edited February 12, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[Perk71]

43 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

IIRC, they won the division that year with a 9-7 record.  Doesn't seem so tough to me. 

 

Again, Cousins is pretty good. For the money he'll command, I want great and he simply isn't IMO. 

Who do you want the Bills to get (Great QB), since you say he isn't great? Just curious. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

and cousins has a great release, great footwork, has 3 years of starting where he's made every throw, under pressure throws and even rolling out. He also has proven he can make those plays over the past 3 years where jimmy has not. he's played 4 bad teams and one team with a great defense. 

 

Cousins is a good QB within the structure of an offense, but not so much when a play breaks down. He sure as hell doesn't lift the talent around him. Funny how Kyle Shanahan chose Jimmy G when everyone was sure he'd just wait until Cousins hit UFA.  Nope, he had a chance to grab the better QB even though it required a 2nd round pick.  That should tell you quite a bit as Shanahan said himself. 

[simool]

Neither QB is worth the kind of coin that Garrapolo got and ultimately what Cousins will get. Save your breath on all of your regurgitation's as to why they are.  You don't know jack crap.  Miss Cleo you ain't.

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Cousins is a good QB within the structure of an offense, but not so much when a play breaks down. He sure as hell doesn't lift the talent around him. Funny how Kyle Shanahan chose Jimmy G when everyone was sure he'd just wait until Cousins hit UFA.  Nope, he had a chance to grab the better QB even though it required a 2nd round pick.  That should tell you quite a bit as Shanahan said himself. 

 

he had no idea back in nov that cousins would be a free agent. he needed a guy.  jimmy could turn out to be a great qb or he could bust out. it's not a slam dunk he's gonna be any good. 

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Outside of Brady/Rodgers/Brees, no QB was scoring with the garbage that we fielded to catch passes against Cincy once Clay went down.

 

Personally I think there were a few other plays to be made that Tyrod missed. And it was a close game. There's one play in particular where Tate broke open into the end zone and Tyrod didn't throw it. Or the missed TD to Logan Thomas. Those 2 plays are the difference between borderline top 20 and top 10. This is definitely very hypothetical, maybe there's a play Tyrod made that Cousins wouldn't have. But that's my take on it.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, aristocrat said:

he had no idea back in nov that cousins would be a free agent. he needed a guy.  jimmy could turn out to be a great qb or he could bust out. it's not a slam dunk he's gonna be any good. 

 

Based on the traits he's exhibited thus far, it's doubtful that he'll bust unless there is an injury.   I think his production only increases as he becomes more familiar with the offense and they surround him with better talent. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Personally I think there were a few other plays to be made that Tyrod missed. And it was a close game. There's one play in particular where Tate broke open into the end zone and Tyrod didn't throw it. Or the missed TD to Logan Thomas. Those 2 plays are the difference between borderline top 20 and top 10. This is definitely very hypothetical, maybe there's a play Tyrod made that Cousins wouldn't have. But that's my take on it.

Look again at that WR group. You may have seen them and thought they were open, they may not have been where they were supposed to be. I'm not saying Tyrod has never missed a pass opportunity, of course, but there's absolutely no way a team trots that WR group out and expects a D to take them seriously.

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Look again at that WR group. You may have seen them and thought they were open, they may not have been where they were supposed to be. I'm not saying Tyrod has never missed a pass opportunity, of course, but there's absolutely no way a team trots that WR group out and expects a D to take them seriously.

 

Kirk Cousins had arguably just as bad a receivers group this year, and a worse running game and even a worse offensive line IMO. He still finished with significantly better production and efficiency than Tyrod did. In a close game where one different play would have changed the outcome I feel confident that he would have won.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

IIRC, they won the division that year with a 9-7 record.  Doesn't seem so tough to me. 

Again, Cousins is pretty good. For the money he'll command, I want great and he simply isn't IMO. 

 

You and Mcgoughan should buy each other beers, you'd get on!

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

You and Mcgoughan should buy each other beers, you'd get on!

 

Yeah. He really needs a beer.  I just happen to agree with him on Cousins.  You'd think I said he stinks based on some people's reaction. 

[26TrapDraw]

7 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

he would give us the best chance at winning next year. 

Right up McBeane's alley. Win now ( Cousins) and in the future. ( Not having to move up but use the 5 picks in the top 100 to get starters ) and most importantly since Cousins will eat up a lot of cap. Players on their rookie deals

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

he had no idea back in nov that cousins would be a free agent. he needed a guy.  jimmy could turn out to be a great qb or he could bust out. it's not a slam dunk he's gonna be any good. 

 

He must have some idea that Washington wasn't going to meet Cousins price = FA

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

44 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Kirk Cousins had arguably just as bad a receivers group this year, and a worse running game and even a worse offensive line IMO. He still finished with significantly better production and efficiency than Tyrod did. In a close game where one different play would have changed the outcome I feel confident that he would have won.

Washington's WRs are better than those 4 from the Bengals game, but regardelss look at the production w/ and without Jordan Reed (their Charles Clay). The Redskins scored ~25.3 points per game when Jordan Reed played, and only 18.3 points per game when he didn't (we scored 16 against the Bengals). The run game is meaningless when there is no threat to catch the football. As soon as Clay left injured the defense only needed to cover McCoy. There was no other threat on the field.

[MrEpsYtown]

The one thing I will say about the Cousins situation is that if you look back at the few times Carolina played Washington over the years, McDermott's defense pretty much shut him down. He had 315 passing yards on MNF a couple of years ago, but also had some bad turnovers. I can't imagine he was super impressed on the other side. 

 

Or perhaps they had to work hard to gameplan for him. McDermott's opinion on him is going to drive this situation.

 

Guys who ripped apart the Panthers over the years are guys like Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Eli. 

[jr1]

Kirk's interceptions kept the Redskins out of the playoffs 

[Albwan]

getting cousins would handcuff the team, there's just too many holes.

that said of all the suitors he will have, i just don't see bills being high on his wish list.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, jr1 said:

Kirk's interceptions kept the Redskins out of the playoffs 

 

And his touchdowns and yards are the only reason they were closer

[FLFan]

8 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Best in what way? Stats? Sorry I'm more interested in winning.

He has definitely proven his ability to lead a team to a 7/8 win season.  Cue the excuses for his lack of leadership and big game/big situation ability.

 

Rather have a rookie than a 29 year old uber expensive average to above average QB who has reached the peak of his abilities.

 

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Cousins is a good QB within the structure of an offense, but not so much when a play breaks down. He sure as hell doesn't lift the talent around him. Funny how Kyle Shanahan chose Jimmy G when everyone was sure he'd just wait until Cousins hit UFA.  Nope, he had a chance to grab the better QB even though it required a 2nd round pick.  That should tell you quite a bit as Shanahan said himself. 

Exactly.  Shanahan knows Cousins and rolled their dice with Jimmy.  Cousins is good, not great, and will not make the team better around him.  Whether he is better than Tyrod, or the other hot garbage we have been rolling out forever, is besides the point.  We need to do better than Cousins.

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Washington's WRs are better than those 4 from the Bengals game, but regardelss look at the production w/ and without Jordan Reed (their Charles Clay). The Redskins scored ~25.3 points per game when Jordan Reed played, and only 18.3 points per game when he didn't (we scored 16 against the Bengals). The run game is meaningless when there is no threat to catch the football. As soon as Clay left injured the defense only needed to cover McCoy. There was no other threat on the field.

 

That's very interesting about Jordan Reed. But the Redskins scored 27 passing TDs to our 16. Despite having a rush game that was 30th in YPA (ours was 14th). Cousins was able to be a productive passer in spite of a poor rushing game. Our rush YPA in the Bengals game was only 0.2 YPA lower than the Redskins total rush YPA for the whole year. Which indicates to me that Cousins could have been productive in that game even with our rush game being as bad as it was.

[FearLess Price]

2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Outside of Brady/Rodgers/Brees, no QB was scoring with the garbage that we fielded to catch passes against Cincy once Clay went down. It was so bad that they had to sign Deonte Thompson (a guy who was cut from the Bears, who didn't exactly have elite wr talent on the roster) off the street 2 days after the game.

 

In case people don't remember, here are the WRs:

Zay Jones - 1 Catch, 9 Yards, 6 Targets

Brandon Tate - 2 Catches, 25 Yards, 1 TD, 4 Targets

Andre Holmes - 0 Catches, 1 Target

Kaelin Clay - 0 Catches 1 Target

 

 

Wow.

 

Lol i remember that week going into the game, i was like " yeah we could win....but who is Tyrod gonna throw it to?" 

 

Drop Zone Jones with the big boy stats lol

 

Edit: Our WR group is only propped up by Bills and Jets fans. Outside of that we are badddddd.

 

Edit: 

Edited February 13, 2018 by FearLess Price

[HappyDays]

@BuffaloHokie13 the would be TD pass play to Logan Thomas alone would have changed the outcome of the Bengals game. I feel very confident Cousins would have made that throw even if everything else remained the same.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Kirk Cousins' last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/kirkcousins/2532820/careerstats

 

Tyrod Taylor's last 3 seasons   http://www.nfl.com/player/tyrodtaylor/2495240/careerstats

 

Cousins is clearly the better QB and is mobile enough as well. He would be an upgrade over Tyrod, hence the best QB for us since Kelly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point was that you set a low bar.

 

My other point is that Washington didn't have much success with Cousins. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

My point was that you set a low bar.

 

My other point is that Washington didn't have much success with Cousins. 

The lack of success that Washington has had, as you describe it, doesn't mean that he was a primary reason for it. The OL was battered with injuries and their run game was less than mediocre. Cousin was very often under duress and still he played well. As with Buffalo his receiver corps was very mediocre. You may find many liabilities in his game but without question Cousins is the qb who will be most in demand in the market. When he is allowed to officially hit the market there will be plenty of teams competing for his service. 

 

I have argued not to sign him because of the contract it will take to sign him. But if he was signed the Bills would be a significantly better team and instantly be a more serious team. 

[Augie]

I like Mayock, and I love that he’s high on our top guys. 

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Or perhaps because after they jerked him around for 2 seasons they realized he had no intention of signing a long term contract? But you know, go with your narrative. 

 

They didnt jerk him around, they didnt believe he was worth the money. They still don't. Neither do a lot of other people, FWIW

[Augie]

 

 

I like the big picture I’m seeing. 

[H2o]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

My point was that you set a low bar.

 

My other point is that Washington didn't have much success with Cousins. 

Oh yes, because all of the other FA options are better than Kirk. We are not ransoming the farm to move up to get Mayfield, Rosen, or Darnold. I just don't see it happening. I would rather have Cousins than Rudolph or Jackson as Cousins has already proven he can play pretty well in the NFL. If we could have a QB come in and put up those numbers imagine how the rest of the offense would look. I don't think that's setting the bar low at all my friend.

 

Washington is a team. Teams win as such and with solid coaching at every phase. Gruden hasn't really shown that much, the team lacks talent on both sides of the ball, and Kirk isn't a one man show. Some great QB's have been on some not so great teams at times over the years. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, MDFan said:

He has definitely proven his ability to lead a team to a 7/8 win season.  Cue the excuses for his lack of leadership and big game/big situation ability.

 

Rather have a rookie than a 29 year old uber expensive average to above average QB who has reached the peak of his abilities.

 

Exactly.  Shanahan knows Cousins and rolled their dice with Jimmy.  Cousins is good, not great, and will not make the team better around him.  Whether he is better than Tyrod, or the other hot garbage we have been rolling out forever, is besides the point.  We need to do better than Cousins.

 

To the point I made earlier with regard to Cousins vs. Garoppolo.