What's Plan C for QB?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

I’m quite certain there has been massive changes all over the front office including the med staff.

 

I'm not trying to be a tool here, sixpack, but I wish you'd say more about the source of your certainty.  It would actually make my day to be persuaded.  No Joke!

 

See, when I look at the Bills Front Office on Buffalobills.com, I see Eric Ciano still listed as "Head Strength and Conditioning" and Bud Carpenter still listed as "Director of Athletic Training Operations", and I think those guys have been here a right few years so...no change at the top.

 

Then I know that in a relatively small city like Buffalo, it only supports a handful of top specialist physicians.  Even in St Louis, there's one orthopedist considered the top guy all the athletes go to locally for shoulders and knees and such.  Now of course, you can go anywhere in the country for treatment but I think the rules on a pre-draft or pre-signing physical are pretty much you gotta do it at the team's facility.

 

It would truly rock my world to believe as you do, so please share.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Punching Bag]

40 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Plan C is probably TT

 

Plan A is drafting a QB with reasonable use of resources

Plan B is a free agent signing or less expensive trade with another team.

Plan C is a Tyrod with another free agent to compete in camp

Plan D is looking for a QB in Arena leagues, CFL, etc

.....

Plan Z is Peteredman and tanking for next year

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then I know that in a relatively small city like Buffalo, it only supports a handful of top specialist physicians.  Even in St Louis, there's one orthopedist considered the top guy all the athletes go to locally for shoulders and knees and such.  Now of course, you can go anywhere in the country for treatment but I think the rules on a pre-draft or pre-signing physical are pretty much you gotta do it at the team's facility.

 

Buffalo has more than its share per population size dues to University and medical research centers there.  

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Ive been making my case for Alex Smith for a while now. I, for one, would actually be pretty darn excited if we landed him. He wouldn't end the search for a franchise QB but he'd instantly be one of the best QBs the Bills have had in years and I really think he'd be a great bridge QB for us and would have a lot to teach Peterman + whatever other young QB they inevitably draft (hopefully this year). 

 

I think having such a knowledgeable veteran QB like Smith would be an invaluable resource to any younger QBs the Bills have on their roster. I think it could go a long way towards developing a rookie properly. He'd also allow us to keep a rookie off the field for a while, build up the team and then be able to insert that rookie into a better situation (with a stronger O line, WR corps, defense etc). 

 

For once this actually looks like a decent year to need a QB. My hopes are high that we land one (and hopefully a good one at that). 

Rush will agree with you...till he is actually on the team and he starts tearing him apart for his short comings

 

Personally I like the idea as long as it includes a drafted qb (by at least the 2nd round) to groom.   I think Peterman is better then he has shown......I think Alex Smith can get it done.....but we need to think about the future now.

[KingRex]

18 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

IMO he can sit and learn and will be trade bait later on while giving insurance of another QB on the roster with that cheap rookie contract. I do not agree he is trash

Ha no but he could turn into a draft pick later on after a year or 2 of learning. Could also become a solid backup here if one of the two go down.

The Bills braintrust not only took the totally unprecedented move of throwing a 5th round selected rookie to the wolves, but even did this stupidly by announcing this early the week before the game so the Chargers players and DC could gameplan , practice and visualize fooling and intimidating a 5th round selected rookie.

 

I think any rationale person has to at least accept the likelihood they may have ruined NP as a player or at the very least made his teammates have no confidence in his ability to produce. I like our choice of DaBoli at OC due to his past success at winning games, but   I have seen no evidence that Daboli offers much in terms of improving our horrible young QB development chops.

 

Trading needed resources to rebuild one of the oldest rosters in the NFL for a draftee who we have to totally remake our training ability looks like simply a bad idea.  We need most likely a bridge QB while we rebuild this team with a younger roster or a vet who can at least survive while we rebuild the OL.

[Punching Bag]

8 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I think Peterman is better then he has shown....

I do not think he could be much worse unless he failed to study playbook like one former Bills QB so Bills cannot be satisfied with him being only full time backup QB.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Limeaid said:

I do not think he could be much worse unless he failed to study playbook like one former Bills QB so Bills cannot be satisfied with him being only full time backup QB.

I dont know man I just think that rookie qbs mature at different rates

 

He definately was not ready when they inserted him......he has some nice attributes to his game and I think that 5 interception game was a fluke......I am def not ready to say is is a starter but I think it is very possible to see him make a jump from year 1 to year 2.

 

He might end of being one of those dependable backup QBs you keep on your roster that comes in and wins 3 game a year for you.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The fun part of this offseason is there are probably 20-30 possible guys that could be out starting QB. It’s wild to think about.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Rush will agree with you...till he is actually on the team and he starts tearing him apart for his short comings

 

Personally I like the idea as long as it includes a drafted qb (by at least the 2nd round) to groom.   I think Peterman is better then he has shown......I think Alex Smith can get it done.....but we need to think about the future now.

 

.....he certainly has shown glimpses of potential especially with the mental aspect of the game.......physical strength/growth rests with the S&C gang........but he is in the VERY early stages of development with no need to rush as a 5th IMO......let it come to him.............

[KingRex]

8 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I dont know man I just think that rookie qbs mature at different rates

 

He definately was not ready when they inserted him......he has some nice attributes to his game and I think that 5 interception game was a fluke......I am def not ready to say is is a starter but I think it is very possible to see him make a jump from year 1 to year 2.

 

He might end of being one of those dependable backup QBs you keep on your roster that comes in and wins 3 game a year for you.

No one can blame NP if his self-confidence needs to be recultivated.  Even if he somehow is bull-headed enuf he can get over 5 INT, he would be a real fool to have any confidence in McD and the braintrust for not only demanding the unprecedented 5th rounder to lead the team to the playoffs, but by announcing the switch early in the week they maximized the time and focus of the Chargers to kill him.

 

Add to that NP has another massive challenge of working to restore the confidence of his teammates (which may take a couple of years of consistent production from NP before his leadership is unquestioned by his teammates.

 

Job #1 for McD/Daboli is probably improving their ability to train young players unless they get an FA vet QB.

[aceman_16]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Basically, what would plan C need to include to make you optimistic about our offense next year if we can't land the top 3 guys at QB or FA QB's?

Joe Webb count?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If I was allowed to make decisions for this team from now until may

 

plan A is so whatever it takes to sign Cousins

plan B is trade for Alex Smith

plan C is trade up to 1 or 2 and take Darnold 

 

I expect none of these things to actually occur 

[SouthNYfan]

16 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If I was allowed to make decisions for this team from now until may

 

plan A is so whatever it takes to sign Cousins

plan B is trade for Alex Smith

plan C is trade up to 1 or 2 and take Darnold 

 

I expect none of these things to actually occur 

 

I would be okay with any of that, as long as we get another rookie to groom behind Smith

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They would NEVER deal him for that. If they would take less than 3 1sts it’s because he will never be healthy and no one will pay it. If he is traded it’s because the team believes that he is healthy and that will be the cost. 

Well, they did it before with Peyton Manning, although that wasn't a trade.  And I'm guessing Luck will be in a similar situation to Peyton: workouts will suggest that he's on the road to recovery, but he'll be far from 100% by April (the time at which teams are making these big decisions pre-draft) and there will be serious doubt in Indy about the wisdom of bypassing a top QB in a loaded QB draft and committing to the remainder of that huge Luck contract. And trade partners will be wary for the same reason. So unless he puts on a truly impressive workout before then, I don't see Indy getting that kind of haul (you mentioned 3 first rounders) for him.

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Be honest - some of the salary cap mess is result of current team.

100% right.

 

In fact virtually all the dead cap was Bean's doing.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, cba fan said:

100% right.

 

In fact virtually all the dead cap was Bean's doing.

Depends how you're defining the dead cap problem. If it's Dareus, well, yes, that was Beane's move, but the idea there was it was better than the alternative of simply cutting Dareus. Eric Wood's extension is on Beane too - you have to wonder what the Bills docs told Beane before they signed him to that extension. (I mean, surely they did get medical input?)  But other guys the Bills would probably like to part ways with - Glenn, Clay - would result in dead cap hits that are solely on Whaley, who signed them to stupid contracts to begin with. Tyrod's re-signing didn't seem like a horrible idea at the time, but I will say that it was at least an ordinary bad idea if (as it seems likely now) they were planning to give him one final half season shot to prove he could succeed in a timing-based passing game and then move on if he failed. So now we're stuck with that needless dead cap hit too.

 

Maybe the people criticizing me for saying we should've gone after Nick Foles should keep this in mind before clicking "submit reply" in that thread ...

[MrEpsYtown]

I think plan C is go with Peterman. They would bring in a couple of 25-27 year old vets who haven't really gotten a shot to come in for cheap and compete with Peterman. Guys like Tyler Bray or Matt Barkley. They could bring in a guy like Blaine Gabbert or Tom Savage to "compete." Savage just played for O'Brien who should have similarities to what Daboll is going to do. Bray just developed under Andy Reid for four years, is really big and has a huge arm. 

 

I know these guys don't excite anyone...that's why it is plan C. I think this would all be meant to bring in competition for Peterman, knowing they want him to win the job. 

 

I think Plan A is Alex Smith and trade up for Darnold/Rosen. This could also be trade for Smith and develop Peterman. 

I think Plan B is sign Cousins or another veteran to be the starter for the next 5 years. Bridgewater, Bradford etc. 

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, they did it before with Peyton Manning, although that wasn't a trade.  And I'm guessing Luck will be in a similar situation to Peyton: workouts will suggest that he's on the road to recovery, but he'll be far from 100% by April (the time at which teams are making these big decisions pre-draft) and there will be serious doubt in Indy about the wisdom of bypassing a top QB in a loaded QB draft and committing to the remainder of that huge Luck contract. And trade partners will be wary for the same reason. So unless he puts on a truly impressive workout before then, I don't see Indy getting that kind of haul (you mentioned 3 first rounders) for him.

The Manning situation was different. He was coming off of a spinal fusion surgery and was 36 years old. Luck was considered the best QB prospect since Peyton and they had a chance to land him. It’s apples and oranges.

 

Andrew Luck is 28 and the Colts have the 3rd pick. They are not guaranteed a top 2 QB. A team will have to do a thorough physical and review of his records. The Colts aren’t just going to move on from him. It will take a ton to wrestle him away. Someone will pay it if he is available. I actually think that the Bills make as much sense as anyone. They can give the Colts a LT and 3 1sts. The Bills become an instant contender and still have cap space (and lots in 2019) and 3 other picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

 

A sample:

QB - Luck (trade)

RB - Shady / Sonny Michel (2nd round)

WR - Benjamin/Richardson (fa)/Zay

FB - Dimarco

LT - Dawkins

LG - Richie

C - Groy

RG - Miller

RT - Austin Pasztor (FA)

 

DE - Hughes

DT - Kyle Williams

DT - Harrison Phillips (2nd round)

DE - Shaq

WLB - Milano

MLB - Preston Brown (re-sign)

SLB - Darius Leonard (3rd round) 

CB - Tre White

CB - Gaines (re-sign)

S - Hyde

S - Porter

 

edit: Glenn was traded in this situation so I had to remove him

Edited January 28, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[KDIGGZ]

4 hours ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

TT should not be part of any plan, having him on the team next year is a mistake. I rather see a 3-13 year then watch TT for a full year again. He is hindering the development of the offense. 

I said that last year and I got roasted. Yes we made the playoffs (barely) but at what cost to our future? There are 3 QB's at the top of the draft that will probably start this year and we could have had one of them. They really screwed up by trying to compete with a team that was bad on paper and realistically had no chance this season

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

I said that last year and I got roasted. Yes we made the playoffs (barely) but at what cost to our future? There are 3 QB's at the top of the draft that will probably start this year and we could have had one of them. They really screwed up by trying to compete with a team that was bad on paper and realistically had no chance this season

Devil’s Advocate: they still weren’t picking higher than 10. They may have had no shot at the top 4 QBs already. They got that monkey off their back, cleared a lot of cap space and became a more desirable destination in FA. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Manning situation was different. He was coming off of a spinal fusion surgery and was 36 years old. Luck was considered the best QB prospect since Peyton and they had a chance to land him. It’s apples and oranges.

 

Andrew Luck is 28 and the Colts have the 3rd pick. They are not guaranteed a top 2 QB. A team will have to do a thorough physical and review of his records. The Colts aren’t just going to move on from him. It will take a ton to wrestle him away. Someone will pay it if he is available. I actually think that the Bills make as much sense as anyone. They can give the Colts a LT and 3 1sts. The Bills become an instant contender and still have cap space (and lots in 2019) and 3 other picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

 

A sample:

QB - Luck (trade)

RB - Shady / Sonny Michel (2nd round)

WR - Benjamin/Richardson (fa)/Zay

FB - Dimarco

LT - Dawkins

LG - Richie

C - Groy

RG - Miller

RT - Glenn

 

DE - Hughes

DT - Kyle Williams

DT - Harrison Phillips (2nd round)

DE - Shaq

WLB - Milano

MLB - Preston Brown (re-sign)

SLB - Darius Leonard (3rd round) 

CB - Tre White

CB - Gaines (re-sign)

S - Hyde

S - Porter

As far as Luck's situation, it warrants (re)-reading this:

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/11/16/andrew-luck-europe-why-hes-there-and-what-means/871166001/

 

Nothing has really changed since the article was published almost 2.5 months ago. He may need another shoulder surgery. An labrum surgery is still an iffy proposition. It remains kind of a death knell for pitchers. Not so much for QBs (Brees), but still, not a great track record to go by. So maybe it winds up being in between my lowball estimate (a mid-round 1st) and your high-end one (3 firsts). One thing that won't happen though - we can't "give them a LT" (Glenn) without throwing in another draft pick. Right now I'd say Glenn has negative trade value ...

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

With a GM who may not want to give up the farm to trade up and a salary cap space that's needed with a huge amount of UFA's, what's the plan for if we aren't able to snag someone in FA or the draft who can compete for the starting job.

 

Let's just assume that the Bills want in on ALL top QB's available.  Cousins could easily go for a price tag outside of where we are willing to go.  Two of the three Qb's in Minnesota are likely to be retained, but it's very well possible that we don't land the leftover.  If they keep Keenum and Bridgewater, we may not even want Bradford.  

 

Then, let's say the Rosen, Mayfield, and Darnold all go in the top 3-5 picks and we couldn't get a deal done to move up.  

 

I don't think any of those scenario's are unrealistic at all.  So what then?  Do we actually keep Tyrod and get someone in the later rounds we hope develops and wait until next year when there is less QB competition?  

 

Basically, what would plan C need to include to make you optimistic about our offense next year if we can't land the top 3 guys at QB or FA QB's?

 

My guess is that Plan C is more likely than Plan A or Plan B simply based on the reality that there are limited options for the Bills to get another QB who might be an upgrade to Taylor.  My plan C would be to keep Taylor because he's probably the best the Bills can do unless they get Cousins or Smith, and then draft a QB in Round 2 or 3 if there's one who looks like he would at least make a decent backup QB.  The Bills need a backup better than Peterman; his only recommendation is that he's cheap.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

As far as Luck's situation, it warrants (re)-reading this:

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/11/16/andrew-luck-europe-why-hes-there-and-what-means/871166001/

 

Nothing has really changed since the article was published almost 2.5 months ago. He may need another shoulder surgery. An labrum surgery is still an iffy proposition. It remains kind of a death knell for pitchers. Not so much for QBs (Brees), but still, not a great track record to go by. So maybe it winds up being in between my lowball estimate (a mid-round 1st) and your high-end one (3 firsts). One thing that won't happen though - we can't "give them a LT" (Glenn) without throwing in another draft pick. Right now I'd say Glenn has negative trade value ...

They aren’t going to sell low. That’s the point. He is either ready to go (3 1sts) or he stays there and they hope he improves. You don’t take a top 10 QB and dump him for peanuts. You can’t throw out a lowball offer and hope they bite. You aren’t buying a foreclosed on house.

 

Glenn has positive trade value if healthy. It’s the same situation. No one is trading for him if they don’t like his medical. If they do, he has value and they have a massive need on the OL. They (and a bunch of teams) would gladly plug him in if healthy. If he isn’t you are stuck with him or you cut him.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, JinxedBill1 said:

Probably Tyrod is the correct answer as worst case scenario as this would be.

 

I would be very upset if they failed to upgrade the QB position with such a rich QB FA period and draft.  I fully expect them to sign a veteran QB like Smith and draft a young talent like Rudolph 

I think this is the best move and makes the most sense. I would love to get Rudolph in the 2nd round. Keep Peterman as qb3.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just thinking out loud, do you think that KC cuts Smith out of respect? Instead of forcing him to go somewhere like the Jets that aren’t good maybe they let him pick his next destination (like the Colts did with Peyton)? If so, we would probably be high on the list behind maybe only Jacksonville.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

50 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I would be okay with any of that, as long as we get another rookie to groom behind Smith

If we get Smith, I don’t need another guy. peterman is young and can develop. Use the picks to fill the roster in around Alex Smith. He came out of the same draft as Rogers. These guys have plenty of time left. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I still don't know how you can evaluate Peterman on this season. In that Chargers game Peterman had less than 2 sec to get the football out. It's not like Peterman was learning and watching a Farve or Brady type QB. He was watching Taylor who has his own problems passing for 200 and reading a defensive. So this 5th rd pick had a bad game in his 1st start vs the Best D-Line in the NFL. 95% of rookie QB's would've suffered the same fate. 

 

I thought Peterman played a solid game considering the weather conditions in the Colts game. It was another game were I don't know how you could evaluate a QB. 

 

To be thrust into the Jags game on the final possession is just insane. To be honest the circumstances Peterman was put into as a rookie 5th rd pick were horrendous. 

 

If you could get a real evaluation of the type of QB Peterman is in those 3 games the Bills should hire you right now. 

 

All I can assume is Peterman was pushing Taylor in practices and after Taylor's awful performances they were forced to make a change. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, xRUSHx said:

I think you are right about cap hit. I also think last year they asked about Smith and KC said no to it but they said ok to 2018 trade of him. So when they made the trade they already had a deal for a trade for Smith this coming off season to give them there draft pick back or depending on how well Smith does in 2017 a lower pick as long as Smith resigns a new deal with us in 2018. JMO

Holy crap that would have been epic Billsy fail.

 

To think of the negative backlash FO would have received if last year they traded draft pick #10 for Alex Smith and pick #27 in 2017. This place would have gone apeshit.

 

If McDerma insisted on that buddy deal with his pal Reid at 2017 draft, it would not have been surprising that Whaley would have vocally noted to the media after his firing he did not agree to this. I know Whaley did not get new GM job, but being on record as the trigger man on that deal would have killed any chance for future employment.

 

Or as you speculate it would be a trade for this year giving Chiefs back the pick they gave Bills in 2017 trade which now is #21 in 1st round this year. Again we all would be going apeshit mad over that ridiculous overpay for Alex Smith who Chiefs may be forced to cut on 1st day of new league year 3-14-17 due to they are over the cap. In a year Bills hoped to move up for a franchise QB no less.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by cba fan

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I still don't know how you can evaluate Peterman on this season. In that Chargers me Peterman had less than 2 sec to get the football out. It's not like Peterman was learning and watching a Farve or Brady type QB. He was watching Taylor who has his own problems passing for 200 and reading a defensive. So this 5th rd pick had a bad game in his 1st start vs the Best D-Line in the NFL. 95% of rookie QB's would've suffered the same fate. 

 

I thought Peterman played a solid game considering the weather conditions in the Colts game. It was another game were I don't know how you could evaluate a QB. 

 

To be thrust into the Jags game on the final possession is just insane. To be honest the circumstances Peterman was put into as a rookie 5th rd pick is horrendous. 

 

If you could get a real evaluation of the type of QB Peterman is in those 3 games the Bills should hire you right now. 

 

All I can assume is Peterman was pushing Taylor in practices and after Taylor's awful performances they were forced to make a change. 

They played with the same players. If you didn’t like the time that he had the same has to be the case for Taylor. Also, no one gets better from watching a guy!! Ha ha, that’s absurd.

 

The questions about Peterman coming out we’re in regards to accuracy, arm strength and how he handled pressure. When he has played in NFL games those issues have been magnified. He has been atrocious under pressure, he doesn’t have the arm strength or accuracy to fit the ball in tigh spots. So he completed 49% of the passes to his guys and over 10% to the other guys. 

 

Obviously, no one knows what the future holds but he looks like the exact player scouts feared. That’s why he went in the 5th. Also, he was considered one of the most pro-ready. That was a pro for him. He wasn’t some raw prospect like Cardale that was 2 years away from being able to get on the field. Peterman is smart and can get through progressions. He was close to a finished product coming out. He’s just not very good and won’t be starting anywhere. 5th round QBs come and go in this league all of the time. Hell, the Saints used a top 75 pick on Garrett Grayson and cut him after 1 year. It isn’t insane at all to write off a guy that stinks.

[SouthNYfan]

8 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If we get Smith, I don’t need another guy. peterman is young and can develop. Use the picks to fill the roster in around Alex Smith. He came out of the same draft as Rogers. These guys have plenty of time left. 

 

Smith has one year left on his deal

Who says he will re-sign if he knows we have a QB in waiting?

He was forced out by kaep

He was forced out by mahomes

I don't think he wants that again

Unless we sign him long term he's not gonna be more than a year

That's why I wouldn't risk not taking a QB if we have a chance at a guy we like

Nate has potential, but I'm not willing to bet the next decade on "Nathan Peterman and maybe Alex Smith will re-sign"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just thinking out loud, do you think that KC cuts Smith out of respect? Instead of forcing him to go somewhere like the Jets that aren’t good maybe they let him pick his next destination (like the Colts did with Peyton)? If so, we would probably be high on the list behind maybe only Jacksonville.

 

No. 

 

In the end, football is a business.  If KC gets several equivalent offers, they may (of respect) ask Smith his preferences rather than telling him his new home, but that's only if the offers are equivalent or "close enough" - unless Smith has a trade approval clause in his contract (no word on that).

 

What the Colts did with Manning had nothing to do with respect.  It was all about business.  Manning wasn't 100% at that time and the Colts had a $28M bonus about to come due.  They cut Manning rather than pay $28M to an aging QB with no guarantee he could throw passably, let alone return to his former form.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

With a GM who may not want to give up the farm to trade up and a salary cap space that's needed with a huge amount of UFA's, what's the plan for if we aren't able to snag someone in FA or the draft who can compete for the starting job.

 

Let's just assume that the Bills want in on ALL top QB's available.  Cousins could easily go for a price tag outside of where we are willing to go.  Two of the three Qb's in Minnesota are likely to be retained, but it's very well possible that we don't land the leftover.  If they keep Keenum and Bridgewater, we may not even want Bradford.  

 

Then, let's say the Rosen, Mayfield, and Darnold all go in the top 3-5 picks and we couldn't get a deal done to move up.  

 

I don't think any of those scenario's are unrealistic at all.  So what then?  Do we actually keep Tyrod and get someone in the later rounds we hope develops and wait until next year when there is less QB competition?  

 

Basically, what would plan C need to include to make you optimistic about our offense next year if we can't land the top 3 guys at QB or FA QB's?

 

Plan C would be see what Nate Peterman can do  to get you the #1 overall pick or close next season, I just don't see how you can pay Taylor 18M knowing he can't throw the ball only to be bumped out of the playoffs round 1 again, rinse, repeat and again wipe our chances of getting a top QB yet again. We have the draft capital this year to go all in, Cleveland is an excellent trade partner if Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Mayfiled or Jackson is on the Bills radar. I would give up the motherload for that position and that position only and we can only hope/pray that the guys making the decisions know what the hell they're doing.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Smith has one year left on his deal

Who says he will re-sign if he knows we have a QB in waiting?

He was forced out by kaep

He was forced out by mahomes

I don't think he wants that again

Unless we sign him long term he's not gonna be more than a year

That's why I wouldn't risk not taking a QB if we have a chance at a guy we like

Nate has potential, but I'm not willing to bet the next decade on "Nathan Peterman and maybe Alex Smith will re-sign"

Forced out by Kap. That was the dumbest thing the 49ers ever did. To this day, I will never not feel like the 49ers beat the Ravens if Alex Smith starts. Kapernicks first half is why Joe Flacco has a ring. That Ravens team is the single worst team that I have ever seen, that won a super bowl. No way to know for sure but I bet you Smith doesnt lose that game.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No. 

 

In the end, football is a business.  If KC gets several equivalent offers, they may (of respect) ask Smith his preferences rather than telling him his new home, but that's only if the offers are equivalent or "close enough" - unless Smith has a trade approval clause in his contract (no word on that).

 

What the Colts did with Manning had nothing to do with respect.  It was all about business.  Manning wasn't 100% and the Colts had a $28M bonus about to come due.  They cut Manning rather than pay $28M to an aging QB with no guarantee he could throw passably, let alone return to his former form.

The option would have been picked up by the Colts and would have increased there dead cap space but they could have. In hindsight, the Colts would have been better off turning the roster over and taking the picks. They’d be in a much better place had they dealt him instead of releasing him. 

 

It happens in sports a lot though. There are plenty of examples of a team releasing a guy instead of trading him out of respect. Dwyane  Wade this year. I’m not saying that the Chiefs do it but I’m not convinced that they don’t. 

[Doc Brown]

Plan C

 

[SouthNYfan]

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Forced out by Kap. That was the dumbest thing the 49ers ever did. To this day, I will never not feel like the 49ers beat the Ravens if Alex Smith starts. Kapernicks first half is why Joe Flacco has a ring. That Ravens team is the single worst team that I have ever seen, that won a super bowl. No way to know for sure but I bet you Smith doesnt lose that game.

 

Calling that Ravens team the "single worst team I have ever seen" instantly ruins your credibility.

 

Flacco had literally the greatest postseason QB run in NFL history, capping it off with 3 tds against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Calling that Ravens team the "single worst team I have ever seen" instantly ruins your credibility.

 

Flacco had literally the greatest postseason QB run in NFL history, capping it off with 3 tds against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

 

 

He said worst in NFL history to win a Superbowl so cut him some slack.  I would argue the 2001 Patriots would compete for the top spot.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

He said worst in NFL history to win a Superbowl so cut him some slack.  I would argue the 2001 Patriots would compete for the top spot.

 

Fair enough.

 

My point earlier was that Smith was forced out by 2 other younger QBs, and only has a year left on his contract if we trade for him.

 

If we draft a QB he's most likely not going to sign an extension.

 

If we don't draft a QB then we are betting on 33 year old Alex Smith to be the guy for the next 3-5 years, hoping he will sign.

 

I wouldn't bet on Smith long term, and he's not signing an extension if we draft a QB.

[mjt328]

This is a great question.  Fans have been talking the past 8-9 months like getting "our guy" was going to be a slam dunk, especially with one of the "best" quarterback classes in history coming in 2018.  But now that the college season has ended, the prospects have declared and draft order is pretty much set - it's starting to become pretty clear that we are still in a really tough place.

 

First of all, I don't see us keeping Tyrod Taylor.  No way.  Not a chance.  That ship has sailed.  It's crystal clear our coaching staff doesn't believe in him.  Last offseason, they exhausted all other options before reluctantly taking him back with a pay cut.  Then they benched him in the middle of a playoff race for a 5th Rounder who wasn't even close to ready.  Now we are clearly looking at draft prospects.  Taylor wants to start.  The guy took less on the market to sign with us originally, just so he could have a chance to start.  He has renegotiated his contract for us twice, instead of hitting free agency.  I think he'll just let the Bills cut him and hit the open market.

 

By my count, there are 6 teams (all ahead of us in the draft) who are desperately in need of a QB:  Cleveland (1 & 4), New York Giants (2), Denver (5), New York Jets (6), Washington (13) and Arizona (15).  There are rumblings about Indianapolis looking for a QB, but there is no way they move from Andrew Luck unless they know his shoulder is done.  There have been talks about Miami doing the same, but I think they give Ryan Tannehill one more shot before throwing in the towel.  Baltimore is probably blowing smoke, hoping for trades to push more talent down the board.  Jacksonville saw enough from Blake Bortles to let him play out 2018.

 

Most likely, one of these six teams is going to sign (or keep) Kirk Cousins.  Maybe it's us.  But probably not.  I just have a hard time seeing us get into that bidding war.  Watching the teams who go after Cousins will tell us a lot about how GMs/Scouts see this particular QB class.  Either way, his signing will knock the number of "needy-QB teams" to five.  Ideally, he will go to one of the teams in the Top 5-6, giving us a much better chance to trade ahead of Washington or Arizona.

 

By my count, there are 5 quarterbacks getting serious consideration for 1st Round status.  Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson.  All of these guys are flawed prospects.  And based on past NFL history, it's highly unlikely all these guys are going to succeed in the NFL.  Maybe 2 or 3 at the most.  It's also questionable if the Bills even like all of these guys, so you can't just assume they would be happy taking anyone who falls. 

 

It all depends on how many QBs the Bills like, and where .  Hopefully they see starting potential in more than a couple guys.  If they only see that in 2-3 guys, then Buffalo will probably need to sell the farm and target a trade with Indianapolis (3) or Cleveland (4).  If one of the top 6 teams gets Cousins, and/or our staff likes 4-5 guys, then we can probably just look to getting ahead of Washington or even staying put.

 

It will also be very important to watch how the veteran QB market plays out in March and April.  The best thing for the Bills is for some of these teams to get themselves sold on a veteran option.  It's quite possible some other team could weed themselves out of the discussion:

It's possible that one of these teams trades for Alex Smith... though I'm skeptical, because I've heard the price tag is a 2nd Rounder.

It's possible that one of these teams is happy taking whoever the Vikings don't want (Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, Teddy Bridgewater) and making him a starter.

It's possible that the Giants cut or trade Eli Manning, which may cause his new team (assuming he doesn't retire) to be comfortable waiting until a later round.

It's possible that teams really like AJ McCarron, and he causes more noise in free agency than anyone is expecting.

It's possible that Nick Foles will become a popular trade target.  His contract voids after the 2018 season, so the Eagles may be eager to get something in return.

It's possible that after we cut Tyrod Taylor, and another team thinks they can salvage him as a starter.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by mjt328

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

9 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Calling that Ravens team the "single worst team I have ever seen" instantly ruins your credibility.

 

Flacco had literally the greatest postseason QB run in NFL history, capping it off with 3 tds against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

 

 

That won the Super Bowl. Not worst team period. The worst super bowl champion

Alex Smith sounds like he knows he’s out in KC

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

That won the Super Bowl. Not worst team period. The worst super bowl champion

 

 

Yeah that was pointed out (I missed the Superbowl party)

I disagree with you on that statement, but they definitely weren't one of the strongest, so apologies for misreading your statement about them