OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said: I thought Kansas City retained $3.6M of Smith's 2018 cap hit if he were traded? Also, I'd imagine that the Bills would possibly try to negotiate a short contract extension with Smith if they traded for him, which would allow them to potentially lower his cap hit in 2018. ...that along with a 3rd for Alex would be the perfect scenario for Smith...two years to groom the new 1st rounder and Peterman is ideal IMO.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Yes, much of the dead cap this season is from the new regime, but I look at it as them cleaning up the cap mess left by the old regime. IMO, a 7-9 team that hadn't made the playoffs in almost 2 centuries should not have been at the salary cap ceiling. That should be a problem you have once you're a winning team/super bowl contender and you have to pay all the guys who got you there, not a team struggling to break .500 every year. First the “old regime” gets blamed for all 17 years of missing the playoffs, and now you’re trying to hang the mistakes of the last 200 years on them? Damn, tough crowd... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I thought Kansas City retained $3.6M of Smith's 2018 cap hit if he were traded? Also, I'd imagine that the Bills would possibly try to negotiate a short contract extension with Smith if they traded for him, which would allow them to potentially lower his cap hit in 2018. Maybe so, I didn’t really dig into it 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...that along with a 3rd for Alex would be the perfect scenario for Smith...two years to groom the new 1st rounder and Peterman is ideal IMO.......... Why would you keep Peterman if you had Smith and a 1st rounder? That’s a waste of a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe so, I didn’t really dig into it Why would you keep Peterman if you had Smith and a 1st rounder? That’s a waste of a roster spot. Peterman is here for his contract he is going nowhere IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Just now, xRUSHx said: Peterman is here for his contract he is going nowhere IMO Is an inactive Peterman a better use of a roster spot than Joe Webb or Colt Anderson to play ST? That’s what we are talking about. Imo, it’s an easy decision. I’d never waste a roster spot on him in that situation. If your QB ever went out you sign a guy like Shaun Hill to be your backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRex Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 The problem with a lot of these plans that involve drafting a it is to be hoped franchise QB is that McD and the Bills have shown zero ability to train and properly develop a young QB. In fact, with their total mishandling of the development of Peterman, it appears more likely they have ruined this impressive athlete into a footnote in the NFL. For any young QB, confidence is a key element. This first means self-confidence that a player can dominate and control a game and an ability to not be controlled by an opponent. By throwing NP to the wolves in the 5 INT in a half game McD and the Bills braintrust will be lucky not to have ruined NP's self-confidence. Even worse, if somehow NP is tough enuf (stupid enuf) to ignore being thrown nto the wolves (McD/DFenison not only mismanaged the game against the Chargers and took the foolish unprecedented step of expecting a concensus 5th round drafted rookie to lead a flawed team to the playoffs), but they created a scene where NPs Bill teammatres reasonably have zero confidence in NP being productive. Probably one of the most silly bad football moves would be to ignore improving the team up to adequacy by trading away prime resources to move into the top 5 picks and then somehow develop this rookie QB with a ton of holes (starting with a hole at C with the loss of Wood). Trading up is just a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Alex Smith is not a franchise QB, but he's the guy you can play while you develop the franchise prospect and let him adjust to the NFL, if you draft a rookie. I don't see us being able to trade up for Rosen or Darnold and if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, everyone else is a bit of a project or at least a need to adjust. The Bills have got to stop underpaying for QB. Smith's salary is a lot to pay for a solid vet, sure, but what are the alternatives? That'd be by the same guys who thoroughly checked out Shaq Lawson's shoulder and told us it wasn't a problem? No it wouldn’t. That fail administration is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, transient said: First the “old regime” gets blamed for all 17 years of missing the playoffs, and now you’re trying to hang the mistakes of the last 200 years on them? Damn, tough crowd... Lmao. That was funny! That made me actually laugh out loud. Decades, I meant decades. I guess it just felt like centuries... lol Almost 2 decades was bad enough without adding 180+ years to that timeline. Edited January 28, 2018 by BillsFan4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Smith’s cap hit in 2018 in $20.6M, the dead space from Tyrod is $8.64M. That’s $29.24M plus whatever you traded for him. I’d rather move up for Rosen, Mayfield or Darnold. We don't take on Smith's dead cap hit to KC. We take on his salary and any unpaid bonuses. KC eats his remaining amortized bonus. If you're using a site like "Overthecap", subtract the "dead money" from the "cap hit" to see what the trading team would pay. Or, just add together his salary for the year and bonuses (I'm assuming if they trade, KC would trade before the roster bonus comes due). Also, the dead cap for Tyrod includes $1M guaranteed of his salary, but if he signs elsewhere for that or more, it becomes $7.4M It's confusing, I know. The point stands that is only what we pay for Smith if we don't renegotiate or extend. We can try to move up for one of those three, but there's no guarantee they're ready to start Day One, and both Beane and McDermott have said they want a vet, and acknowledged that some rookies start right away, some don't. Who is that vet then, in your scenario? Personally, I'm not interested in saving money. I want quality QB play next year and going forward, but one does also have to put a team around the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Is an inactive Peterman a better use of a roster spot than Joe Webb or Colt Anderson to play ST? That’s what we are talking about. Imo, it’s an easy decision. I’d never waste a roster spot on him in that situation. If your QB ever went out you sign a guy like Shaun Hill to be your backup. Until we have a franchise worthy QB and a solid backup all 3 slots have to be used IMO. If they sign Smith it will be a 2 year deal at max, might only be a one year deal that would leave nobody on the team to be backup. Peterman is the next Foles IMO, a solid backup and a possible trade bait in a year or 2 for some team in need. He is locked in on that rookie contract here IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, joesixpack said: No it wouldn’t. That fail administration is gone They use different doctors now? The training staff is changed? You sure 'bout that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, transient said: First the “old regime” gets blamed for all 17 years of missing the playoffs, and now you’re trying to hang the mistakes of the last 200 years on them? Damn, tough crowd... Maybe it is 200 years in buffalo years .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: They use different doctors now? The training staff is changed? You sure 'bout that? I’m quite certain there has been massive changes all over the front office including the med staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Why would you keep Peterman if you had Smith and a 1st rounder? That’s a waste of a roster spot. If they feel Peterman has progressed, I would think they might put him on the practice squad They can offer to honor the pay scale of his current contract, can pay PS players whatever you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: I think you are right about cap hit. I also think last year they asked about Smith and KC said no to it but they said ok to 2018 trade of him. So when they made the trade they already had a deal for a trade for Smith this coming off season to give them there draft pick back as long as Smith resigns a new deal with us in 2018. JMO Ive been making my case for Alex Smith for a while now. I, for one, would actually be pretty darn excited if we landed him. He wouldn't end the search for a franchise QB but he'd instantly be one of the best QBs the Bills have had in years and I really think he'd be a great bridge QB for us and would have a lot to teach Peterman + whatever other young QB they inevitably draft (hopefully this year). I think having such a knowledgeable veteran QB like Smith would be an invaluable resource to any younger QBs the Bills have on their roster. I think it could go a long way towards developing a rookie properly. He'd also allow us to keep a rookie off the field for a while, build up the team and then be able to insert that rookie into a better situation (with a stronger O line, WR corps, defense etc). For once this actually looks like a decent year to need a QB. My hopes are high that we land one (and hopefully a good one at that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, xRUSHx said: Until we have a franchise worthy QB and a solid backup all 3 slots have to be used IMO. If they sign Smith it will be a 2 year deal at max, might only be a one year deal that would leave nobody on the team to be backup. Peterman is the next Foles IMO, a solid backup and a possible trade bait in a year or 2 for some team in need. He is locked in on that rookie contract here IMO. In your scenario they traded for Smith and drafted a guy early. That puts Peterman as a distant 3rd with no real chance of ever seeing the field. It’s why they got rid of Yates last year. You can find a guy on the street to give you what that guy gives you. The next Foles?!? Foles was a 3rd round pick that completed 61% of his passes as a rookie and had more TDs than INts. In year 2 he had 27 TDs and 2 INTs. Peterman has shown nothing to indicate that he is like that. Every single thing that scouts worried about with him has been magnified when he got a chance. He will never be a player for that reason. He isn’t accurate enough to have that little arm strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: Peterman is here for his contract he is going nowhere IMO is he cheaper than a JUGS machine to throw passes to defensive backs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If they feel Peterman has progressed, I would think they might put him on the practice squad They can offer to honor the pay scale of his current contract, can pay PS players whatever you like That I could see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: In your scenario they traded for Smith and drafted a guy early. That puts Peterman as a distant 3rd with no real chance of ever seeing the field. It’s why they got rid of Yates last year. You can find a guy on the street to give you what that guy gives you. The next Foles?!? Foles was a 3rd round pick that completed 61% of his passes as a rookie and had more TDs than INts. In year 2 he had 27 TDs and 2 INTs. Peterman has shown nothing to indicate that he is like that. Every single thing that scouts worried about with him has been magnified when he got a chance. He will never be a player for that reason. He isn’t accurate enough to have that little arm strength. IMO he can sit and learn and will be trade bait later on while giving insurance of another QB on the roster with that cheap rookie contract. I do not agree he is trash 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: is he cheaper than a JUGS machine to throw passes to defensive backs? Ha no but he could turn into a draft pick later on after a year or 2 of learning. Could also become a solid backup here if one of the two go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: IMO he can sit and learn and will be trade bait later on while giving insurance of another QB on the roster with that cheap rookie contract. I do not agree he is trash Agree to disagree then Also, no one is trading for that guy without him making giant leaps. He is never going to see the field so how will they see those giant leaps? He’s much more likely to be out of the league than on the field. 5th round guys that play poorly come and go all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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