New idea for preventing CTE

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I'm not an engineer nor have any access to materials to develop a helmet.

 

 That said I would design the helmet so that it was combined with the shoulder pads.

 

It would be one unit were the shoulders take the blow and the head itself didn't touch the helmet at all. There would be enough room so the head couldn't touch even when the neck goes through a full range of motion.

 

This would make it hard to see , so the head area would be made of clear material to maximize visibility. On a side note you could see the players faces much better.

 

So if anyone wants to run with this concept feel free as I don't have the where-with-all to make it.

 

 

[Fadingpain]

Sounds like you are describing the HANS device as used in motor racing.  At least sort of.

 

Doesn't do anything about the brain hitting the inside of your skull within that helmet, which is where the problem lies.

You can't do anything about inertia.

 

 

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

 

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Sounds easy, I’m IN!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Sounds like you are describing the HANS device as used in motor racing.  At least sort of.

 

Doesn't do anything about the brain hitting the inside of your skull within that helmet, which is where the problem lies.

You can't do anything about inertia.

 

 

 

 

 

When you make a shoulder tackle you aren't getting CTE  nor concussions. This would do the same.

 

 

12 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

 

 

Nope, The Helmet And Shoulder Pads Are One Piece Of Equipment.

 

 

7 minutes ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said:

Sounds easy, I’m IN!

 

I want to see it on Sharktank.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

I'm thinking something like this but with my above specifications.

 

 

[JTown]

CTE has nothing to do with helmet design.  The current helmet does everything it is designed to do.

The brain cannot sustain the movement inside the skull when the helmet impacts the ground or another object. 

 

I believe that the helmet creates a false sense of protection and if the remove the helmet all together it would completely change tackles and it truly would be "heads up football".

That is the only way to significantly reduce the amount of concussions.   

[nedboy7]

If you take the brain out you will have no problems. 

[Ol Dirty B]

That's it! You figured out all of the NFL's CTE problems.

 

Why did they bother with the settlement, research or new helmet contracts when a guy sitting on his couch could come up with a solution that the rest of us could never see

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I'm not an engineer nor have any access to materials to develop a helmet.

 

 That said I would design the helmet so that it was combined with the shoulder pads.

 

It would be one unit were the shoulders take the blow and the head itself didn't touch the helmet at all. There would be enough room so the head couldn't touch even when the neck goes through a full range of motion.

 

This would make it hard to see , so the head area would be made of clear material to maximize visibility. On a side note you could see the players faces much better.

 

So if anyone wants to run with this concept feel free as I don't have the where-with-all to make it.

 

 

The brain will still shake. Anyone notice Luke Kuechly now wears something called a Q collar. It's a collar that squeezes the neck so the head fills up with blood. This limits the brains movement. 

 

Should be interesting to see the results. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[Fadingpain]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Sounds like you are describing the HANS device as used in motor racing.  At least sort of.

 

Doesn't do anything about the brain hitting the inside of your skull within that helmet, which is where the problem lies.

You can't do anything about inertia.

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, JTown said:

CTE has nothing to do with helmet design.  The current helmet does everything it is designed to do.

The brain cannot sustain the movement inside the skull when the helmet impacts the ground or another object. 

 

I believe that the helmet creates a false sense of protection and if the remove the helmet all together it would completely change tackles and it truly would be "heads up football".

That is the only way to significantly reduce the amount of concussions.   

 

3 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

If you take the brain out you will have no problems. 

 

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

The brain will still shake. Anyone notice Luke Kuechly now wears something called a Q collar. It's a collar that squeezes the neck so the head fills up with blood. This limits the brains movement. 

 

Should be interesting to see the results. 

Whenever you have something moving quickly, like a football player and his brain inside his skull, and then it suddenly decelerates when the player hits something, the brain will continue to stay in motion until it slams into the inside of the skull.

 

It does not matter which player is the tackler and which player is being tackled.

 

I could hit you shoulder to chest, with both of us having a perfectly stabilized head inside a helmet, relative to the rest of our bodies.  Doesn't matter.  Both of our brains are going to stay in motion inside our skulls until they hit our skulls.

 

The guy getting hit usually gets the worst of it, but the guy doing the hitting jostles his brain too.  Sometimes both guys get knocked senseless; sometimes only the tackler (!) is woozy...

 

Some CTE research has shown that CTE is not related to one or two big hits/concussions, but rather, many small impacts to the brain sustained in large numbers over a longer period of time.  For this reason, some research has suggested the players most at risk are offensive and defensive linemen, who are banging their heads around on every single play as they engage players on the opposite side of the line.

 

A WR, in contrast, might get lit up with the most eye-catching hit now and again, but on a lot of plays he is not hitting anything, or getting hit.

 

As someone mentioned, you are not going to eliminate CTE or brain trauma or concussions with helmet technology...

 

This neck collar mentioned upstream that is effectively increasing internal pressure inside your skull so there is less "wiggle room" inside your skull is a more interesting idea; in theory that could help with brain impacts to the skull.  Whether or not it actually does remains to be seen.

 

I would imagine you can't increase internal pressure within the skull significantly enough to truly protect the brain without causing other problems arising from artificially boosting internal pressure inside your skull!  

 

Jesus.  At what point is it easier to tell your kid to take up baseball?

 

Hence the problems facing the future of football.

 

 

 

 

 

[BUFFALOKIE]

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

[oldmanfan]

33 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

It is a question of physics and anatomy.  Inertia is related to velocity and mass.  Large men running at high velocity generate a lot of inertia.  That includes all parts  of the body including the brain.  When velocity is suddenly slowed, that's when anatomy comes in (and I teach anatomy so trust me).  The brain is suspended in cerebrospinal fluid, which along with the meninges cushion the brain.  But in the type of hits football players take, while the body slows suddenly the brain does not because it is suspended in fluid.  Compare it to a car crash; the car stops suddenly but if you didn't have a seat belt on you'd fly though the windshield.

 

The CSF cannot provide enough cushioning and thus the brain slams against the interior of the skull.  Not good.  So while changes in technology might help some in lowering the amount of shock to the system, it may not help the inertia effect.  Frankly I'm surprised given the mass and velocity of NFL players and the resulting inertial effects that not one player has died on the field from rupture of a cerebral blood vessel.

 

As for jumping off ladders, accumulated effects, etc., data suggests that is more a factor in CTE.  Makes sense.  Smaller but multiple effects adding up makes sense physiologically.

[Greybeard]

   It is the rate of deceleration that is the issue.  Cars have become safer because, for example, because the front crumbles, thus decreasing the rate of deceleration.   And it is not like it is limited to deceleration.  The old lineman head slap was also an issue because of the sudden acceleration.

    Perhaps the biggest issue in this is the limited distances you have to absorb the energies involved.  A player hits his head on the ground, there is not a lot of space to put energy absorbing material, and the short distance means the rate of deceleration is high.  The purpose of the absorbing material is in part to decrease the rate of deceleration.  Due to the small distances involved, the rate of deceleration is very high.  Perhaps everyone should wear a helmet like that Bills safety of years ago, who's name escapes me at the moment.  External absorbing material would also work.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

   It is the rate of deceleration that is the issue.  Cars have become safer because, for example, because the front crumbles, thus decreasing the rate of deceleration.   And it is not like it is limited to deceleration.  The old lineman head slap was also an issue because of the sudden acceleration.

    Perhaps the biggest issue in this is the limited distances you have to absorb the energies involved.  A player hits his head on the ground, there is not a lot of space to put energy absorbing material, and the short distance means the rate of deceleration is high.  The purpose of the absorbing material is in part to decrease the rate of deceleration.  Due to the small distances involved, the rate of deceleration is very high.  Perhaps everyone should wear a helmet like that Bills safety of years ago, who's name escapes me at the moment.  External absorbing material would also work.

Mark Kelso 

[4_kidd_4]

Inflatable hamster bubbles for all!

[JaCrispy]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Sounds like you are describing the HANS device as used in motor racing.  At least sort of.

 

Doesn't do anything about the brain hitting the inside of your skull within that helmet, which is where the problem lies.

You can't do anything about inertia.

 

 

 

 

Exactly, the players are going to need anti-gravity suits- similar to the propulsion systems used by UFOs...this way, inertia is negated 

[Zebrastripes]

8 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

The brain will still shake. Anyone notice Luke Kuechly now wears something called a Q collar. It's a collar that squeezes the neck so the head fills up with blood. This limits the brains movement. 

 

Should be interesting to see the results. 

Did he wear this the entire year?  Or did he start to wear it after the concussion he suffered earlier this year?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

20 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said:

Did he wear this the entire year?  Or did he start to wear it after the concussion he suffered earlier this year?

I think all year. 

[Mango]

10 hours ago, JTown said:

CTE has nothing to do with helmet design.  The current helmet does everything it is designed to do.

The brain cannot sustain the movement inside the skull when the helmet impacts the ground or another object. 

 

I believe that the helmet creates a false sense of protection and if the remove the helmet all together it would completely change tackles and it truly would be "heads up football".

That is the only way to significantly reduce the amount of concussions.   

 

 

That isn’t true. Many concussion happen from your head hitting the ground. While the helmet falls short in collisions with other humans/players, it is saving lives (not hyperbole) when it comes to players hitting the ground. Concussions like TT or Tom Savage’s would be far far worse if not for the helmet. 

 

I used to think the same way you do, but the reality of the data and science is much different.  Most deaths in street fights are from falling to the ground, not being punched in the face.  

[boyst]

11 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

When you make a shoulder tackle you aren't getting CTE  nor concussions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

link or proof to backup this absurd statement?

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

 

So slow down the speed of the game.  Create playing surfaces and shoes that make it more difficult for players to accelerate.

 

This wouldn't be a cure-all but could be part of the solution.

[Fadingpain]

6 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

It's a function of energy delivery to the brain.  Small amounts of energy, no matter how they are delivered or reduced, will take more instances to achieve the same damage than larger amounts.  Larger energy doses will require fewer repetitions, presumably.

It's not hard to figure out.  

 

And yes, it's a very simple calculation to figure out how many times jumping off an 18" step ladder will cause CTE, if some value for causing CTE is known.  The number of repetitions might be huge, and therefore impractical to cause CTE, but presumably there is some threshold number that could be reached. 

 

Also, playing football in the NFL is not like jumping off an 18" step ladder.  The energy involved is much greater.

 

Mass x acceleration = force.

 

240 lb. guy running 15 MPH hits 240 lb. guy running 15 MPH; both stop suddenly in their tracks....lots of force being delivered to both bodies.

 

 

[cba fan]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

When you make a shoulder tackle you aren't getting CTE  nor concussions. This would do the same.

 

 

Actually the experts claim any jarring hit in any way transfers g forces to brain causing it to rattle inside skull. 

Yes not to the degree a direct hit to helmet/skull creates but a constant effect nonetheless.(this repetitiveness exposure is the catalyst for developing CTE)

 

The Hans device in NASCAR prevents internal decapitation and death when head whips during hard contact with wall and other cars etc etc with head at strange angles. Added benefit is it reduces but does not eliminate concussions during these violent crashes. NASCR drivers do not get CTE as they do not have constant head trauma hits like contact sports.

 

This idea the OP proposes seems to have merit and should be studied. It sounds somewhat like the Zero1 new helmet technology without the connection to shoulder pads that NFL players are using this past year. Alex Smith wears one.

 

I would caution though if every hit to shoulder pads results in g forces more directly going to helmet it may make things worse. The tech would need to address that but the idea sounds interesting.

[MJS]

I'd like to see the whole NFL move to helmets like these:

 

https://www.wired.com/2016/01/the-zero1-flexible-football-helmet-may-save-players-brains/

 

The flexibility of the material reduces the force much more effectively. If my kids ever want to play football, I'll definitely be getting them these.

 

All hard pads, helmets, braces, etc should be removed from the game and replaced with flexible, force absorbing materials.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

14 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

 

Exactly

 

 

[DC Tom]

14 hours ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

So, accoring to some of you, jumping off of an 18 inch step ladder, landing on your feet and absorbing the impact with your legs (and every part of you body below your skull) will lead to CTE if you do it enough times? Because inertia.

 

Well, I think some of you are wrong. Inertia can be slowed down. The OP's idea is valid. Slowing that inertia over a longer distance and greater mass is certainly a plausible improvement.

 

No, the OP's idea is not valid, because transmitting the force of the impact from head to shoulders does not decrease the deceleration inflicted on the brain.  The brain experiences the same forces if the body is slowed by the same impulse, no matter where that impulse is applied.

 

Source: I'm a physicist.