Should we try to trade Shaq?

[cba fan]

22 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Quite nearly a rookie? What does that mean exactly? He’s been very unimpressive his first few years in the league. He looks like just another guy.

He has played in every game since his first after surgery in 2016. Only played in less than 21 games total. And only one preseason set of games. That is why he is essentially closer to a rookie than a NFL vet..

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, cba fan said:

He has played in every game since his first after surgery in 2016. Only played in less than 21 games total. And only one preseason set of games. That is why he is essentially closer to a rookie than a NFL vet..

 

So that’s why he’s not any good huh? 

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, cba fan said:

Hughes is the best or second best defensive player on team. Getting rid of him would be another stupid trade by Beano.

When the pass rush is not nearly a statistically effective as some might wish. Hughes plays hard every down, full speed. He is our best pure pass rusher.
Bills need better depth rotation in the middle perhaps?

 But the whole front foursome is lacking in statistical performance this season.
I will always fall back on Coaching style and Coaches.

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

So that’s why he’s not any good huh? 

Bills have a strong history of poor rookie development. does that apply with a new regime?

[GreggTX]

8 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I expect a first round pick to be more than just average. 

 

And I haven't seen anything from Zay Jones. His catch rate is the worst from an NFL receiver in over 10 years. He's not explosive, doesn't generate much separation and offers nothing on special teams. I don't see a bright future for him at all. 

Well, let's both you're wrong about Jones, but he has certainly not been as impressive as White or Dawkins. I'm still giving him a chance to make it as a solid posession receiver.

[Big Turk]

No we need a player like him in this defense. Once we start adding pieces he will play a valuable role.

 

He might not ever be the sack master we thought we drafted but he is every bit the edge setter we thought we were getting...thats a very important role. Dont understand why people are so dismissive of it and its importance

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

 

I see him more as Phil Hansen...Denney was not a great edge setter against the run...he got mauled too often.

10 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Well, let's both you're wrong about Jones, but he has certainly not been as impressive as White or Dawkins. I'm still giving him a chance to make it as a solid posession receiver.

 

Jones will be OK...we've already seen some improvement. He has been thrust into a #1 WR role he isnt ready for and its really not fair to him. Its also hard to really judge when the QB rarely throws to WRs amd doesn't throw in rhythm

 

WRs can take 2-3 years to really start coming into their own and learning the finer intricacies that allow them to get separation.

 

Judging him because of what a guy like Smith-Schuster and Kupp are doing is really unfair...those guys have good QBs and good offensive systems along with multiple other weapons teams have to worry about. It makes a big difference when you are being covered by a #2 or #3 CB versus a #1 CB

 

Its a little confusing when people take none of this into account because it is meamingless otherwise.

Edited December 8, 2017 by matter2003

[Wayne Arnold]

6 hours ago, cba fan said:

Hughes is the best or second best defensive player on team. Getting rid of him would be another stupid trade by Beano.

 

40 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

I had a vision today of them cutting Hughes and keeping Shaq. 

 

If that happens, McD has gone full blown Jauron.

 

Are you guys talking about the same Jerry Hughes who has 3 sacks on the season, ZERO in the last eight games?

.

For the record, I think they should hang on to both. But it's a little strange how overrated Hughes is among the fanbase.

[stinky finger]

21 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

People will be pissed if Shaq is traded? I Don’t get the impression anyone is too excited about him. I don’t care either way but would prefer a decent return. 

 

Thr interestng part to me is he seems like a McD type of player. Football minded, works hard, on field effort. played through injuries in college, lots of heart, positive attitude. I’m just not sure he’s shown enough on the field to be “untouchable” on the trade block. I don’t think they will give him away, but I think if offered a good deal they wlll feel comfortable moving on.

 

I think  OBD is going to have a busy offseason and there will be some “surprising” moves as they continue to build the team they want. 

Yolo - my tongue was firmly embedded in cheek.

 

I was merely making the point that if McBeane wants Shaq in the mix - thus, part of the process - well.... you know -  the nancy's around here will be in an uproar.

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

part of the process

who coined the term, "the process" for the Bills? I hate it. You realize the 76ers stretch during the process was the most losing team in all sports history. For all that, they're decent and young right now, basically a worse version of the Celtics who didn't put their fans through all that BS process, and just turned it around. 

 

Mind you that's basketball where tanking is actually a viable strategy. I'm sure the Browns are really glad they tanked a year for Miles Garret.

Edited December 8, 2017 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[BADOLBILZ]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:45 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

 

 

The bolded was my scouting report for that draft selection.   An uninspired selection.

 

That was received with outrage around here but has proven to be accurate............he is simply an uninspiring performer.........and truth be told even that meager 4 sack number greatly overstates his impact as a pass rusher..........which has been utterly negligible.    

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[PABillsfan23]

On 12/6/2017 at 9:26 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I would like to see him bulk up to 290 and play DT. He doesn't have the speed outside but inside he could do some damage.

I’m hoping he bulks up to 325 and plays NT.   That way we can have the famous 3/4 vs 4/3 debate 

[BigBuff423]

I don't understand the Zay Jones contempt from people on this board.....in another thread, something like a month ago - and I'm too lazy to go find it - I posted numbers from of the all-time greats....in the top 10 WRs of all time and all of them HOFs from their Rookie years. It was eye-opening how lacking their production was except for one Mr. Randy Moss. Otherwise, most of the numbers were either "meh", or just a little better than "okay". 

 

WRs take a year or two to develop and very few produce in their 1st year...it's that 2nd year you see true development and progress and you find out what you have, good or bad. To exacerbate the issue as others have said, he didn't have a very accurate QB throwing to him and in fact PFF listed him 3rd among the top 3 WRs to have "uncatchable" passes thrown to him....shocker I know. 

 

Also, progress is what I've seen from Zay....he just needed to get out of his own head and he needs to continue to progress, but as long as he does, I feel good about Zay's future with the Bills. 

[oldmanfan]

People who say we should just cut guys a year into their career are the same types that get all pissy when they have to wait more than 5 minutes in the McDonald's drive through line.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The bolded was my scouting report for that draft selection.   An uninspired selection.

 

That was received with outrage around here but has proven to be accurate............he is simply an uninspiring performer.........and truth be told even that meager 4 sack number greatly overstates his impact as a pass rusher..........which has been utterly negligible.    

 

 

 

 

the guy was drafted with a KNOWN injury.

 

Shockingly, that was only Whaley's second biggest failure.

 

[Freddie's Dead]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:45 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

He should shoot higher than that.  Kelsay?  <ducks>

[CommonCents]

3 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

the guy was drafted with a KNOWN injury.

 

Shockingly, that was only Whaley's second biggest failure.

 

Trading up to take Ragland infront of Deion Jones was number 1 right?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

Trading up to take Ragland infront of Deion Jones was number 1 right?

No, trading up for a WR was.

 

[NewEraBills]

If you can land Bradley Chubb then see ya Shaq.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

They value a rotation on the D-line.  He has played well in the run game and is usually there for cleanup sacks. Don't remove depth just to remove depth.  

[Yav]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:18 PM, 3rdand12 said:

he is quite nearly a rookie. and he is hardly BAD. 

wtf is going on here.

The problem is he was a first round pick and missed 1/2 his rookie season due to being drafted with an injury and now this year he's missing time due to an injury. You would expect to get more time on the field and production from a first round pick. I think under the system Rex was supposed to put in place he would be a good fit but in the current system he's just not a good fit similar to Ragland. 

 

I can see the Bills making a player for player trade in the offseason. 

 

I don't dislike him at all, I just don't see him fitting into the system. 

[cba fan]

27 minutes ago, Yav said:

The problem is he was a first round pick and missed 1/2 his rookie season due to being drafted with an injury and now this year he's missing time due to an injury. You would expect to get more time on the field and production from a first round pick. I think under the system Rex was supposed to put in place he would be a good fit but in the current system he's just not a good fit similar to Ragland. 

 

I can see the Bills making a player for player trade in the offseason. 

 

I don't dislike him at all, I just don't see him fitting into the system. 

We are talking about a sprained ankle. The horror of a guy who is so injury prone some guy rolls up on his ankle. Ship him out.

 

What system does he not fit in? Bills need run stuffers and he pushes two guys off the edge all the time. Great depth player at least.

[Dr. Who]

On 12/7/2017 at 8:42 AM, westerndecline said:

It's his first year. He's still developing. Christ  ppl here think every player and rookie should b Lawrence Taylor ...

 

No...

 

Once we get a real qb, all this other stuff just goes away. Yes a real qb effect s the pass rush. You know why genius???

 

Because you are constantly playing with a lead, sometimes a huge lead.

 

Put Rodgers on our team and Lawson and Hughes are in double digits each in sacks

Well, Lawson as a double digit sack fella seems hyperbole, but the basic point is excellent.  Real Qb instantly improves the D.

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, Yav said:

The problem is he was a first round pick and missed 1/2 his rookie season due to being drafted with an injury and now this year he's missing time due to an injury. You would expect to get more time on the field and production from a first round pick. I think under the system Rex was supposed to put in place he would be a good fit but in the current system he's just not a good fit similar to Ragland. 

 

I can see the Bills making a player for player trade in the offseason. 

 

I don't dislike him at all, I just don't see him fitting into the system. 

 

 

The system Shaq fits best in doesn't exist.   

 

Needs to figure out how to get quicker off the ball so he can use his size/strength.

 

He also has decent hand work, but again, that slow get-off allows tackles to get in a comfortable, balanced position in pass protection and then it's an uphill battle to get pressure.

[Yav]

4 hours ago, cba fan said:

We are talking about a sprained ankle. The horror of a guy who is so injury prone some guy rolls up on his ankle. Ship him out.

 

What system does he not fit in? Bills need run stuffers and he pushes two guys off the edge all the time. Great depth player at least.

You're talking about a first round pick being a great depth player. 

I think the problem is most people want more production out of a first round pick. 

 

Its not his fault where he was picked and I get that and I'm not down on him for his ankle or his shoulder. I just think that McD likes more powerful guys up front. 

[njbuff]

Shaq is a keeper as he sets a good edge as a run defender and his pass rush skills will improve with more experience. But the talent around him has to improve for him to be a keeper.

 

Shaq should start and Milano should grab one of the OLB spots.

 

Other than that, the draft and FA should give the Bills 5 new starters in the front 7.