Anyone concerned about the wr talent?

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Yikes, you seem to be delusional. Unfortunately, none of the players you mentioned from this amazing fairy tale offense we supposedly used to have will be on the 2018 roster. Time to get a real QB that will deliver the ball on time and accurately.

 

I heard a good summary of Tyrod today. "He can do some things other QB's can't, but he can't do most of the things other QB's can."

 

That pretty much nails it.  Again he's everything you want from a QB except when it comes to passing.  Unfortunately...

[boyst]

12 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

he was in the ODB, Watkins, Evans, KB class.

Via trade brah

[Bing Bong]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Via trade brah

 

Sure idc, I agree we need better receivers and he's better than KB IMO. 

 

You said he was the best receiver in his class lol, do you stand by that statement?

[boyst]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

 

Sure idc, I agree we need better receivers and he's better than KB IMO. 

 

You said he was the best receiver in his class lol, do you stand by that statement?

I stand by the fact that when all is said and done he will be the best receiver in that class. He is more durable than back home, he has out produced Watkins, Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin are a different grade beneath him... I believe Jarvis Landry is the best of the class

[Bing Bong]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I stand by the fact that when all is said and done he will be the best receiver in that class. He is more durable than back home, he has out produced Watkins, Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin are a different grade beneath him... I believe Jarvis Landry is the best of the class

Just wanted to confirm. I'd rather have OBJ (can't stand him) or Mike Evans.

[Pbomb]

7 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

Woods was good here as well. Under utilized but good. We had a WR contingent but McBean saw fit to let them walk and then traded away the last and best of them, Watkins.

 

Benjamin, zay, matthews, and thompson are good we dont have anyone to pass to them, just like when we had watkins, woods, and goodwin

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

 

Goodwin has already gotten 70 targets this year. His highest in Buffalo was 68 last year and with Tyrod throwing the ball his 68 targets resulted in 29 catches for 431 yards. This year 70 targets for 35 catches and 677 yards. Again, that's on two more targets.

 

As for Benjamin, come on, the guy had 45 snaps in Buffalo. Not targets. Snaps. Shouldn't be a surprise he hasn't been productive yet. And he's a very fine WR. Not a speed guy but he moves the chains. 

 

Zay seems improved but hasn't shown me a lot yet. He needs to either work on his route running or work on getting more explosive. 

 

While I suspect that we'll be bringing in a QB - as you do too obviously - I think they'll consider OL a bigger need and defense a bigger priority than offense outside of QB.

 

Now that they've brought our cap situation into much better shape, I wouldn't be surprised to see them bringing in a mid-level FA WR. Don't see them following any of your ideas there in the last paragraph. Your FAs are too expensive and I don't see them going WR in the first couple of rounds. I've been wrong a time or two before, though.

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, moshermw said:

I don't have enough energy to rebuke every one of these. You won a lottery. Cotdam revisionist history.

 

The Bills Offense was Top 10 with TT, Top 5 when the WR you named were healthy - and he did get them the ball. TT was on the field for every game in 2016 and all but 2 in 2015.

 

None of those you mentioned were. 

 

When they were they were stars just like they are now.

 

Take a lap.

 

 

No, the Bills offense was 16th in 2016. 1st in rushing. 30th in passing. With 17 receiving TDs and 29 rushing. Which is unbelievable when you consider there wasn't a single other team in the league with more rushing TDs than passing TDs.

 

Thanks, run game.

 

 

 

And by the way, there were five teams that had fewer passing TDs than us that year. The primary QBs for those teams were Fitzy for the Jets, Kessler/McCown/Griffin for the Browns, Osweiler for the Texans and two rookies for Philly and the Rams.

 

And while Watkins is still not doing all that well, Woods is having a career high year in TDs/target and yards/catch, and has already passed his career high for yards/season with four games left. He's got a pretty good shot at a 1000 yard season.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Bills Pimpin']

53 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, the Bills offense was 16th in 2016. 1st in rushing. 30th in passing. With 17 receiving TDs and 29 rushing. Which is unbelievable when you consider there wasn't a single other team in the league with more rushing TDs than passing TDs.

 

Thanks, run game.

 

 

 

And by the way, there were five teams that had fewer passing TDs than us that year. The primary QBs for those teams were Fitzy for the Jets, Kessler/McCown/Griffin for the Browns, Osweiler for the Texans and two rookies for Philly and the Rams.

 

And while Watkins is still not doing all that well, Woods is having a career high year in TDs/target and yards/catch, and has already passed his career high for yards/season with four games left. He's got a pretty good shot at a 1000 yard season.

Ahhhhh.... The well thought out, logical, informative morning Thurman morning posts are my favorites on the board. Well said as usual....

[Coach Tuesday]

The WR situation is a SYMPTOM of something larger - McBeane's horrendous failure at strategic planning for this season and beyond.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, Pbomb said:

Benjamin, zay, matthews, and thompson are good we dont have anyone to pass to them, just like when we had watkins, woods, and goodwin

Why is it that some people don't see this...  I dunno.  Fanatics 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The WR situation is a SYMPTOM of something larger - McBeane's horrendous failure at strategic planning for this season and beyond.

 

30th in 2016

28th in 2015

 

WITH our "all-world" WR sammy watkins, bob woods and marquise goodwin.

 

But sure. It's a WR problem.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

30th in 2016

28th in 2015

 

WITH our "all-world" WR sammy watkins, bob woods and marquise goodwin.

 

But sure. It's a WR problem.

 

see above

[Pirate Angel]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

Matthews is a solid possession receiver, Throw doesn't throw it unless they are open, his accuracy isn't good enough to throw it where only your receiver can get it and contest for the ball...i believe this year was used just to implement the offense, Tyrod was.never viewed as the future and will never be the guy 

[Teddy KGB]

Def a qb purgatory issue 

 

Why don't  we pass more ?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

I am in the camp that is worried about it but thinks the line is a bigger concern.  Other than Quarterback my priorities this offseason would be offensive line and defensive line.  

 

I think Benjamin and Zay (who has definitely improved as he has gone on) will be sufficient.  Keep a bottom end of the roster speed guy like Deonte Thompson and see what you have in a guy like Reilly.  

 

I wouldn't use draft resource on WR this year.  For me that is a 2019 priority.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

But I was told Zay sucks and than he wasn't good enough to get after the ball  

 

68 * .46    is about 41  catchable passes   25 of 41 aint that bad 

Edited December 6, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am in the camp that is worried about it but thinks the line is a bigger concern.  Other than Quarterback my priorities this offseason would be offensive line and defensive line.  

 

I think Benjamin and Zay (who has definitely improved as he has gone on) will be sufficient.  Keep a bottom end of the roster speed guy like Deonte Thompson and see what you have in a guy like Reilly.  

 

I wouldn't use draft resource on WR this year.  For me that is a 2019 priority.  

KB and Zay are young with room for improvement.

 

OL is getting old.  Wood hit a wall 3 years ago.  Richie is fast approaching.  Right side is more of a disaster than normal.  Dawkins is stuck at LT because of Glenn's injuries.

 

OL needs an infusion of talent in the worst way.  Hope we sign a starting quality OG or RT in FA and draft a C.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

KB and Zay are young with room for improvement.

 

OL is getting old.  Wood hit a wall 3 years ago.  Richie is fast approaching.  Right side is more of a disaster than normal.  Dawkins is stuck at LT because of Glenn's injuries.

 

OL needs an infusion of talent in the worst way.  Hope we sign a starting quality OG or RT in FA and draft a C.

This is where I'm at. Use FA to plug OL holes, draft Offensive skill players with a priority on QB.

 

[Billzgobowlin]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:04 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

Nothing matters till they have a QB.  QB's that are elite make their players good.  Nothing wrong with this group, in fact I think they are super Bowl caliber with a good QB.

[Kirby Jackson]

19 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Nothing matters till they have a QB.  QB's that are elite make their players good.  Nothing wrong with this group, in fact I think they are super Bowl caliber with a good QB.

Aren’t you assuming that they get a QB? I am.

 

So your strategy, and many others on here, is avoid all evaluations of the receiver talent now. Pretend that it doesn’t count because of the QB. Give a rookie QB these questionable weapons to struggle with and then upgrade them after? That makes no sense.

 

Additionally, they have countless practices, position specific coaches and like 22 different angles of game footage. You don’t think that they are qualified to evaluate those guys?!? Come on people you can’t be that simple. 

 

If you say “the group is fine” that’s okay. I don’t believe that it is but everyone has an opinion. If you say “they aren’t capable of evaluating them” that’s just not true.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I think our first two selections in the draft need to be QB and WR

[C.Biscuit97]

Sammy, Boldin, Jones, and Holmes would have been one of the best cores in the NFL.

 

the Bills specialize in turning strengths into weaknesses.

 

you don't win with just character. You need playmakers. The Bills traded a really good one and replaced him with JAGs. I'm not a huge TT guy but they set him up to fail.  

 

This isnt a great wr draft either.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Aren’t you assuming that they get a QB? I am.

 

So your strategy, and many others on here, is avoid all evaluations of the receiver talent now. Pretend that it doesn’t count because of the QB. Give a rookie QB these questionable weapons to struggle with and then upgrade them after? That makes no sense.

 

I think line is more important than weapons.  I accept that means we might struggle through a bit in 2018 but Benjamin, Jones and Charles Clay are not nothing. I disagree with you that the line can just be fixed with coaching.  That is for two reasons.  Number 1 - we have a terrible o-line coach who is McDermott's mate and is going nowhere and Number 2 - Incognito and Wood are on a downward trajectory at their age..... coaching isn't going to defeat father time; Glenn's long term health is a big question mark from this point and the right side of the line is manned by a marginal NFL talent and a backup.  

 

The Jets and Saints blowouts were a direct result of losing in the trenches both sides of the ball.  Tyrod sucked against the Saints but he actually played pretty well against the Jets and we still got blown out.  This might be the new age NFL but games are still won upfront.  This Bills team needs to be built inside out.  

[BringBackOrton]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sammy, Boldin, Jones, and Holmes would have been one of the best cores in the NFL.

 

the Bills specialize in turning strengths into weaknesses.

 

you don't win with just character. You need playmakers. The Bills traded a really good one and replaced him with JAGs. I'm not a huge TT guy but they set him up to fail.  

 

This isnt a great wr draft either.

Sammy, KB, Matthews and Zay/Holmes would've been even better.

 

But you can't invest in 2 really good WR's when

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Aren’t you assuming that they get a QB? I am.

 

So your strategy, and many others on here, is avoid all evaluations of the receiver talent now. Pretend that it doesn’t count because of the QB. Give a rookie QB these questionable weapons to struggle with and then upgrade them after? That makes no sense.

 

Additionally, they have countless practices, position specific coaches and like 22 different angles of game footage. You don’t think that they are qualified to evaluate those guys?!? Come on people you can’t be that simple. 

 

If you say “the group is fine” that’s okay. I don’t believe that it is but everyone has an opinion. If you say “they aren’t capable of evaluating them” that’s just not true.

Almost all of our old WR's who "weren't good enough" are thriving around the league.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think line is more important than weapons.  I accept that means we might struggle through a bit in 2018 but Benjamin, Jones and Charles Clay are not nothing. I disagree with you that the line can just be fixed with coaching.  That is for two reasons.  Number 1 - we have a terrible o-line coach who is McDermott's mate and is going nowhere and Number 2 - Incognito and Wood are on a downward trajectory at their age..... coaching isn't going to defeat father time; Glenn's long term health is a big question mark from this point and the right side of the line is manned by a marginal NFL talent and a backup.  

 

The Jets and Saints blowouts were a direct result of losing in the trenches both sides of the ball.  Tyrod sucked against the Saints but he actually played pretty well against the Jets and we still got blown out.  This might be the new age NFL but games are still won upfront.  This Bills team needs to be built inside out.  

I guess that I just look at it as Castillo is gone. If he’s not it isn’t going to matter.

 

I would play Glenn and Dawkins at the tackles and Incognito, Wood and Groy on the inside. I’d still add a guy or 2 but I don’t see them changing much of the starting lineup. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that I just look at it as Castillo is gone. If he’s not it isn’t going to matter.

 

I would play Glenn and Dawkins at the tackles and Incognito, Wood and Groy on the inside. I’d still add a guy or 2 but I don’t see them changing much of the starting lineup. 

 

 

IF and it is a big IF Glenn can stay healthy my starting O-line next year would be:

 

Glenn - Dawkins - Groy - Incognito - DRAFT PICK

 

I would draft at least 2 though, one OT and an interior guy. 

My ideal for our first 6 picks is to use no more than two of those on getting a QB and then go 2 OL and 2 DL.  

[26CornerBlitz]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

IF and it is a big IF Glenn can stay healthy my starting O-line next year would be:

 

Glenn - Dawkins - Groy - Incognito - DRAFT PICK

 

I would draft at least 2 though, one OT and an interior guy. 

My ideal for our first 6 picks is to use no more than two of those on getting a QB and then go 2 OL and 2 DL.  

 

Eric Wood signed an extension this season.  Not sure how you don't have him in at C. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Eric Wood signed an extension this season.  Not sure how you don't have him in at C. 

 

Oh I think he will be.  He wouldn't be if I was in charge.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I think he will be.  He wouldn't be if I was in charge.  

 

Gotcha. They'd have a new OC and OL coach if I had any say. 

[ddaryl]

Get us a solid WR in FA or draft to go along side benjamin zay and clay I thik we will be fine if we solve the qb issue OC issues

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

50 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

I think our first two selections in the draft need to be QB and WR

I think our first two selections in the draft need to be QB and bodies to protect him!!!!! 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Sammy, KB, Matthews and Zay/Holmes would've been even better.

 

But you can't invest in 2 really good WR's when

Almost all of our old WR's who "weren't good enough" are thriving around the league.

Yep, that scares me too. Those guys were evaluated before they hit FA or were traded.

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

IF and it is a big IF Glenn can stay healthy my starting O-line next year would be:

 

Glenn - Dawkins - Groy - Incognito - DRAFT PICK

 

I would draft at least 2 though, one OT and an interior guy. 

My ideal for our first 6 picks is to use no more than two of those on getting a QB and then go 2 OL and 2 DL.  

I have real concerns about the defensive front 7. How many guys there will be starting next year? Hughes, Milano, maybe Shaq? Maybe Kyle? 

[BillsfanAZ]

The Bills will need to try to get an experienced #1/2 WR in free agency. Drafting one is fine and dandy but then the Bills are full of inexperienced WR's aside from Benjamin and Mathews if he resigns. Even Holmes hasnt played a ton for how long he has been in the NFL. Having new toys is great but sometimes the transition from college to the pros can take a year or two.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, BillsfanAZ said:

The Bills will need to try to get an experienced #1/2 WR in free agency. Drafting one is fine and dandy but then the Bills are full of inexperienced WR's aside from Benjamin and Mathews if he resigns. Even Holmes hasnt played a ton for how long he has been in the NFL. Having new toys is great but sometimes the transition from college to the pros can take a year or two.

 

I wouldn’t hate the Paul Richardson option. If we started Benjamin, Richardson and Zay in the slot with Thompson and Reilly behind them we would be a little more balanced.

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep, that scares me too. Those guys were evaluated before they hit FA or were traded.

I have real concerns about the defensive front 7. How many guys there will be starting next year? Hughes, Milano, maybe Shaq? Maybe Kyle? 

Well yes and no. Woods left before Beane. I'd like to think if we got a Sammy offer when the offseason started, we would've kept Woods.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:04 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

While the Bills work to remake this roster we rarely see people talk about it. Before anyone says, you can’t do anything with TT, Marquise Goodwin has more yards this year than Matthews, Jones and Benjamin combined for the Bills. He played primarily with Hoyer and Beathard. Romo talked about it during the game on Sunday; the guys don’t get open. As we bring in a rookie QB it would be wise to give him weapons.

 

Personally I think Matthews stinks, he’s never open and is a limited athlete. Benjamin is a good, not great WR. Zay has been a big disappointment to me because I had high expectations. He just always seems to be off balance. I like Thompson and think that he fills a role. The Bills still need a #1/2 depending on how you define Benjamin. 

 

Would you rather sign someone like Davante Adams, Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Paul Richardson or Donte Moncrief or draft a guy in the first couple of rounds? 

 

Very much concerned, both with the scheme (routes not well chosen to beat coverage and get open, adjustments not fast enough) and the WR themselves.   I think better play calling for the coverage would see these guys get more open, but the point is, they need that help.  We need at least 2 WR you can cover perfectly and they still make the catch.  I'd frankly like to see us do both - sign a FA who was a top WR (maybe a bit past his prime) and draft high so we have a vet who can teach the young guns from that BT;DT viewpoint.

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have real concerns about the defensive front 7. How many guys there will be starting next year? Hughes, Milano, maybe Shaq? Maybe Kyle? 

 

I don't know that I have ANY front 7 certainties.  Hughes is probably still here but I don't think it is impossible he is cut.  Shaq I think is definitely still here and probably starts.  Milano you are right is the next most likely starter.  I think Kyle will retire and we have two new DTs, I think Alexander should be benched but might not be and Humber could still be knocking about.  Preston is 100% gone.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

The Bills are DFL in % of receptions by WRs.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

The Bills are DFL in % of receptions by WRs.

 

Where are they in % of targets to receivers?  I guess that is pretty close to last also.