billsintaiwan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Taylor has always put up good stats with healthy, legit receivers. He has been all right with the arena league all-star wr corp we have run out over half the time the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Are you serious dude? We're 29th in passing yards and 8th in rushing yards. Comparing TT's passing yards to the teams' rushing totals is apples to orangutans to spaceships level of nonsense. Where would Buffalo rank if you took out Taylor's 175 rushing yards? It's a pretty precipitous drop, actually. From 8 to being tied with Indy at 19. Go back in your closet and keep praying we get a QB of Trevor Siemian's caliber. Edited November 1, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Turnover differential. The reason they are 5-2 right now.... expect it to continue.... at least for the offense. Will be tough for the defense to continue at their pace. Nonetheless, a huge reason I was an advocate of Tyrods.... HE NEVER TURNS THE BALL OVER. Something that was so underrated and thrown aside by fans here in the offseason. Trevor Siemian over Tyrod? The reason they are 5-2 right now.... is because the Defense scored 7 in the ATL game to secure the win. 4-3 is still respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2016 wasn't Taylor's fault, agreed. It was the fault of the Buffalo Bills, Tyrod was responsible for his share of the problem. They've got a lot of needs before they're going to be legitimate championship contenders. Franchise QB is probably the biggest one, IMHO. It's not the area where they have the weakest starter. That would be RT, probably, or RG or a few others. But an upgrade to a top ten or twelve QB is a bigger team upgrade than you could get any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 My concern with Benjamin... Dan Pizzuta @DanPizzutaFollowFollow @DanPizzuta More Per NFL #NextGenStats, Tyrod has thrown into tight coverage at 4th lowest rate (13.3%). Kelvin tied for second-worst avg. separation (2yds) 4:34 PM - 31 Oct 2017 Benjamin is a guy who makes catches by out-battling the corner hanging all over him. But Taylor is a guy who won't throw the ball unless the receiver is WIDE open. Is Taylor willing to change? Or will he continue being indecisive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 My concern with Benjamin... Dan Pizzuta @DanPizzutaFollowFollow @DanPizzuta More Per NFL #NextGenStats, Tyrod has thrown into tight coverage at 4th lowest rate (13.3%). Kelvin tied for second-worst avg. separation (2yds) 4:34 PM - 31 Oct 2017 Benjamin is a guy who makes catches by out-battling the corner hanging all over him. But Taylor is a guy who won't throw the ball unless the receiver is WIDE open. Is Taylor willing to change? Or will he continue being indecisive? It's a fair concern, but this Dennison offense is very different than the Shula offense. This offense has a history of scheming guys open.... but that is why it is essential the ball comes out on time because they are not open for their whole route... that is not the concept of the offense they get separation at certain points of their route and that is when the ball is supposed to go to those guys. That's one reason why I simply will not accept that the time to throw stat is useless. I accept it is flawed.... but it isn't useless because timing matters more than a QB's ability to improvise in this scheme. I accept that they have done a good job of making the scheme more Tyrod friendly since the disaster in week 2 but fundamentally the point remains that KB will get open if he just runs his routes properly in this offense.... Tyrod has to get the ball out at the point KB is open. I think that can happen and hopefully it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 15th in points paired with 2nd in least points given up. A recipe for winning if there ever was one. But points is NOT a statistic that isolates the offense. Not even close. It has huge input from the defense and STs. Quick example is that the defense put up seven points by Matt Milano, which gave the offense seven points of credit. But that's not even close to the total defensive impact on offensive points on this day. The defense and STs gave the offense three terrific drive starts in Oakland territory last game and the offense managed to turn them into two field goals and one TD. That looks real impressive if you only look at points, but when the drive starts were on the Oakland 14, the Oakland 41 and the Oakland 48, all of a sudden thirteen points looks pretty anemic.. They got the ball to start a drive on the Raiders 14 yard line with 13:06 left in the 3rd quarter, and managed to lose three yards and kick a 17 yard field goal. Way to go offense. Way to pile up those points!!!! Points are hugely important, but pretending they're only a measure of offense is kidding yourself. Field position is huge in points. Yards on the other hand much better tells you how efficiently the offense is moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Awful take or not, there is truth to it. Look at the Final score and subtract 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Awful take or not, there is truth to it. Look at the Final score and subtract 7. It is not as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Seriously? Awful take. Didn't that happen in the early 3rd quarter? Do you recall the rest of that game when the Bills took the lead? EXTREME conservative playcalling. I got banned from here after criticizing McDermott and company for it. You have no idea what would've happened from then on out.Take away that TD and the Bills are still only down 3 with plenty of game left. I would call that extreme. You are back so I would guess you were suspended. Banned people do not return (well unless they use an alternate email for a new account) It is not as simple as that. it never is, yet I have seen this argument a number of times used by TT fans. Ask anyone from BBMB about EJ's horrible game in London. The EJ backers and haters argued that the Bills "only had the lead" late because the defense scored a TD before the Refs screwed Buffalo with a bogus call and JAX scored the clincher. Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I would call that extreme. You are back so I would guess you were suspended. Banned people do not return (well unless they use an alternate email for a new account) it never is, yet I have seen this argument a number of times used by TT fans. Ask anyone from BBMB about EJ's horrible game in London. The EJ backers and haters argued that the Bills "only had the lead" late because the defense scored a TD before the Refs screwed Buffalo with a bogus call and JAX scored the clincher. I won't pretend to know how that conversation went on BBMB, as I wasn't there, but here that conversation went like this: Guy 1: Yeah, EJ had a terrible 5 minute stretch, but he brought us back and took the lead and then the Defense let Bortles drive 84 yards for a TD Guy 2: EJ wasn't on the field when the Bills took the lead back Guy 1: Well... EJ still brought us back into the game Guy 2: EJ dug the hole we were in to begin with... Which is certainly different than your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Interesting points, Wayne and GunnerBill. Should be really interesting to see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Brady wouldn't look like Brady if he wasn't surrounded by his weapons and Alex Smith certainly looks a lot better now than he did a few years ago. Even Rodgers looked borderline pedestrian when he lost Nelson and only had Cobb / James Jones in 2015. If we added guys like Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to this offense A LOT more national people would be recognizing Tyrod's caliber of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Seriously? Awful take. Didn't that happen in the early 3rd quarter? Do you recall the rest of that game when the Bills took the lead? EXTREME conservative playcalling. I got banned from here after criticizing McDermott and company for it. You have no idea what would've happened from then on out.Take away that TD and the Bills are still only down 3 with plenty of game left. So you're complaining finally got you banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Dont you always talk about yards? Tyrod has 1,343 passing yards and 175 rushing yards. The team outside of Tyrod has 697 rushing yards. He is almost doubling the rush yardage of the rest of the team with his passing yards alone, add in his rushing yards and its an even bigger difference. He also has 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD to the rest of rushing offenses 4 TDs. Hes also been doing this without starting level receivers. Now Matthews is fully healthy and we have a true #1. Lets see what happens. People should indeed talk about yards. So if we add up your figures here, they come to 1,343 plus 175 equals 1518. Twenty-three QBs this year have surpassed that number in passing alone, without adding in any run numbers whatsoever. Those QBs include McCown, Goff, Watson, Siemian, Keenum, Hell, even Jacoby Brissett. Add in the rushing numbers and Bortles also climbs over Tyrod. Tyrod's last two outings have been very good and pretty good, respectively. But as for the season, he's been Tyrod. But yeah, let's see what happens. I suspect things will get a bit better. Edited November 1, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Dude, the Tyrod debate literally will never be answered as long as he's in Buffalo. It was supposed to be answered by the end of his first year. It wasn't. It was supposed to be answered by the end of his 2nd year. It wasn't. It was supposed to be answered in the first half of this season. It hasn't been. The reason it hasn't been answered and will literally never be answered as long as he's Buffalo's QB is simply because "passing offense" is measured by YARDZZZ, rather than a combination of important passing stats (and also team approach) and I would honestly bet you that no matter what QB Sean McDermott had, his approach will always take us out of the top of the league in that ever-so-important passing statistic. Oh, so it really was a reading comprehension problem, then? You honestly didn't understand my point about coaching and offensive approach? Super sorry, dude. I'll try to dumb it down next time. I was trying to be nice for the crowd who still believe hes our franchise QB. The only debate I see left is whether he plays well enough to still be our starter next year while our hopeful draft pick sits and develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Being 5-2 didn't stop us from upgrading the receivers corps I highly doubt anything will stop us from upgrading at QB if something becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Brady wouldn't look like Brady if he wasn't surrounded by his weapons and Alex Smith certainly looks a lot better now than he did a few years ago. Even Rodgers looked borderline pedestrian when he lost Nelson and only had Cobb / James Jones in 2015. If we added guys like Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to this offense A LOT more national people would be recognizing Tyrod's caliber of play. Brady's wide receivers aren't much. When Pats WRs leave, they tend to look a bunch less effective. They lose an Edelman and they don't skip a beat. Brady's targets are mostly a result of Brady's efforts. Amendola's no star and they did just as well last year without Cooks as this year with him. As for Kelce and Tyreek Hill they were both there last year and Smith wasn't as good as he has been this year. They aren't the reason for his improvement, though it's certainly true that having them there helps Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) I won't pretend to know how that conversation went on BBMB, as I wasn't there, but here that conversation went like this: Guy 1: Yeah, EJ had a terrible 5 minute stretch, but he brought us back and took the lead and then the Defense let Bortles drive 84 yards for a TD Guy 2: EJ wasn't on the field when the Bills took the lead back Guy 1: Well... EJ still brought us back into the game Guy 2: EJ dug the hole we were in to begin with... Which is certainly different than your argument. different? Seems similar to me, just more detained with a timeline But hey, he sucked and he's gone. I was trying to be nice for the crowd who still believe hes our franchise QB. The only debate I see left is whether he plays well enough to still be our starter next year while our hopeful draft pick sits and develops. ummmm??? Oh never mind. Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 People should indeed talk about yards. So if we add up your figures here, they come to 1,343 plus 175 equals 1518. Twenty-three QBs this year have surpassed that number in passing alone, without adding in any run numbers whatsoever. Those QBs include McCown, Goff, Watson, Siemian, Keenum, Hell, even Jacoby Brissett. Add in the rushing numbers and Bortles also climbs over Tyrod. Tyrod's last two outings have been very good and pretty good, respectively. But as for the season, he's been Tyrod. But yeah, let's see what happens. I suspect things will get a bit better. You talked earlier about field position playing a part in points. It also plays a part in yards. So does conservative play. Taylor threw 1 pass in the 4th qtr last week for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 People should talk about yards. So if we add up your figures here, they come to 1,343 plus 175 equals 1518. Twenty-three QBs this year have surpassed that number in passing alone, without adding in any run numbers whatsoever. Those QBs include McCown, Goff, Watson, Siemian, Keenum, Hell, even Jacoby Brissett. Add in the rushing numbers and Bortles also climbs over Tyrod. Tyrod's last two outings have been very good and pretty good, respectively. But as for the season, he's been Tyrod. It's also worth noting that we are winning. Tyrod's attempted 196 passes this year. Only 37 of them have been in the 4th quarter. When the game plan is get a lead and then run, and it's being executed and working, there's no reason to worry about the yards. He's attempted 141 passes when we are tied or trailing (45 tied, 96 trailing) and attempted 55 passes while we are ahead. A lot of the guys you listed (not all) have more yards because their teams are trailing when they have the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Brady's wide receivers aren't much. When Pats WRs leave, they tend to look a bunch less effective. They lose an Edelman and they don't skip a beat. Brady's targets are mostly a result of Brady's efforts. Amendola's no star and they did just as well last year without Cooks as this year with him. As for Kelce and Tyreek Hill they were both there last year and Smith wasn't as good as he has been this year. They aren't the reason for his improvement, though it's certainly true that having them there helps Alex Smith. This is false. In Bradys nine games with a healthy Edelman, the Patriots quarterback threw for 338.1 yards per game, 24 touchdowns and three interceptions by completing 67.8 percent of his passes, as noted by The Boston Globes Ben Volin. But when Edelman went down with an injury, Brady threw for 246.7 yards per game, 12 touchdowns and four interceptions by completing 59.4 percent of his passes in the seven games that followed Edited November 1, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 This is false. I posted the stats of Brady with and without Edelman in a few threads. Brady is still good but his stats were almost cut in half. No kidding. Claiming Gronk and Cooks isn't much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) You know what situational playcalling is? Is it what cost the Bills the KC and Raiders game when they had the lead and blew the games in 15 and 16? We don't know What If. All we have is What was. This Defense is Helping the Bills Win games and not Lose games like last season. A much better Defense does not make a much better QB. Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Brady's wide receivers aren't much. When Pats WRs leave, they tend to look a bunch less effective. They lose an Edelman and they don't skip a beat. Brady's targets are mostly a result of Brady's efforts. Amendola's no star and they did just as well last year without Cooks as this year with him. As for Kelce and Tyreek Hill they were both there last year and Smith wasn't as good as he has been this year. They aren't the reason for his improvement, though it's certainly true that having them there helps Alex Smith. Hill didn't break out until this point of the season last year. Not to mention they replaced a pretty marginal RB tandem of Ware / West with a potential rookie of the year in Hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 different? Seems similar to me, just more detained with a timeline But hey, he sucked and he's gone. ummmm??? Oh never mind. Yes different. Nobody in that conversation I outlined says what would have happened. They talk about what did happen. Could EJ have taken the lead for us? Maybe. We'll never know because the Defense did. Your argument, however, is that if the Defense didn't score the offense definitely wouldn't have, which is both silly and petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Your right. Which was several fans argument last year. That the defense blewwww thanks to Rex. Tyrods a solid QB. He was last year. He basically got blamed for EVERY loss no matter how awful the defense was. Difference this year is the defense isn't a tire fire and the team is winning so many of the fans that hated him last year like Tyrod now. Basically, fans LOVE to blame the QB when he deserves it and when he doesn't in losses. so many of the fans that hated him last year like Tyrod now. some of the fans that hated him last year still do some of the fans that hated him last year like Tyrod a bit more now. some of the fans that loved him last year love Tyrod a bit more now. that should cover all the bases Yes different. Nobody in that conversation I outlined says what would have happened. They talk about what did happen. Could EJ have taken the lead for us? Maybe. We'll never know because the Defense did. Your argument, however, is that if the Defense didn't score the offense definitely wouldn't have, which is both silly and petty. OK, you win on the EJ issue. I never said they wouldn't or couldn't. lets be honest mon Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Where would Buffalo rank if you took out Taylor's 175 rushing yards? It's a pretty precipitous drop, actually. From 8 to being tied with Indy at 19. Go back in your closet and keep praying we get a QB of Trevor Siemian's caliber. Why would you take out our QBs rushing yards then compare him to 31 teams who still have their QB's rushing yards. Is arguing honestly too much of a burden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Why would you take out our QBs rushing yards then compare him to 31 teams who still have their QB's rushing yards. Is arguing honestly too much of a burden? because it suites his argument? just a guess Edited November 1, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) OK, you win on the EJ issue. I never said they wouldn't or couldn't. lets be honest mon let's be honest. The reason they are 5-2 right now.... is because the Defense scored 7 in the ATL game to secure the win. 4-3 is still respectable. Awful take or not, there is truth to it. Look at the Final score and subtract 7. You gave us the loss without it in the first post, and said we can just subtract 7 from the final in the next. Stop digging while you're behind. Edited November 1, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 let's be honest. You gave us the loss without it in the first post, and said we can just subtract 7 from the final in the next. Stop digging while you're behind. Look at the Final score and subtract 7. Is it really that bad? Hard to take people serious who think Tyrod sucks or is even below average. Trevor Simeon over Tyrod. I have to scan over 3/4 of all the posts because people give, Saving Peterman, monkey kutulu and yeezass the time of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 But points is NOT a statistic that isolates the offense. Not even close. It has huge input from the defense and STs. Quick example is that the defense put up seven points by Matt Milano, which gave the offense seven points of credit. But that's not even close to the total defensive impact on offensive points on this day. The defense and STs gave the offense three terrific drive starts in Oakland territory last game and the offense managed to turn them into two field goals and one TD. That looks real impressive if you only look at points, but when the drive starts were on the Oakland 14, the Oakland 41 and the Oakland 48, all of a sudden thirteen points looks pretty anemic.. They got the ball to start a drive on the Raiders 14 yard line with 13:06 left in the 3rd quarter, and managed to lose three yards and kick a 17 yard field goal. Way to go offense. Way to pile up those points!!!! Points are hugely important, but pretending they're only a measure of offense is kidding yourself. Field position is huge in points. Yards on the other hand much better tells you how efficiently the offense is moving. The offense was also extremely conservative with the lead and the good field position and was happy at times to just make sure we got the three points rather than go for more risky plays and potential TDs. The coaches played to win not to get the most points. They arent trying not to score TDs obviously. But you can tell by the plays they run at times. They don't go downfield. They don't have the horses for it. Benjamin will help open it up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Surround the man and keep TT! I think McDermott intended to replace him when hired - until they started talking, and he decided to give TT a chance. I think he has fully won the admin over - they are now one person T.T. McBean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 If we had a franchise QB to go with this defense, we would always be a playoff team contending for a SB. With Taylor and this defense we always in the hunt for playoffs imo. This should and I believe will be addressed in the 1st round of the 2018 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2016 wasn't Taylor's fault, agreed. It was the fault of the Buffalo Bills, Tyrod was responsible for his share of the problem. They've got a lot of needs before they're going to be legitimate championship contenders. Franchise QB is probably the biggest one, IMHO. It's not the area where they have the weakest starter. That would be RT, probably, or RG or a few others. But an upgrade to a top ten or twelve QB is a bigger team upgrade than you could get any other way. I'm amazed (though not surprised) with posters like you who are just doubling down time after time again. How do you know we're not championship contenders right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I'm amazed (though not surprised) with posters like you who are just doubling down time after time again. How do you know we're not championship contenders right now? Because he doesnt believe we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I'm amazed (though not surprised) with posters like you who are just doubling down time after time again. How do you know we're not championship contenders right now? They probably know we're probably not championship contenders because we're the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 It's also worth noting that we are winning. Tyrod's attempted 196 passes this year. Only 37 of them have been in the 4th quarter. When the game plan is get a lead and then run, and it's being executed and working, there's no reason to worry about the yards. He's attempted 141 passes when we are tied or trailing (45 tied, 96 trailing) and attempted 55 passes while we are ahead. A lot of the guys you listed (not all) have more yards because their teams are trailing when they have the ball. To add onto your point: The Bills have been leading or tied 65% of all their minutes played so far this season. In that 35% of the time, Taylor has attempted 49% of his passes for 52% of his completions for 51% of his yards for 62.5% of his TDs. He currently has the 6th highest passer rating in the NFL when trailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I believe I heard the announcers say that The Bills have scored Zero TD's in the 1st QTR all season. oh look Why Bills have NFL’s fewest points in first quarter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 If we had a franchise QB to go with this defense, we would always be a playoff team contending for a SB. With Taylor and this defense we always in the hunt for playoffs imo. This should and I believe will be addressed in the 1st round of the 2018 draft. We have a possible franchise QB on the bench but we are being patient and developing him the right way. Obviously if Taylor was sucking right now he wouldn't be playing. But despite Peterman's potential don't be surprised if the Bills double down and draft another QB next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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