Attendance Issues in Cali and how it relates to us

[Fan in San Diego]

Could the Chargers have been more successful by staying in SD with an LA game similar to our Toronto series?

The chargers always sold out at Jack Murphy Stadium, also known as Qualcomm. Dean Spanos is just a greedy bastard and doesn't deserve to own an NFL team. He should sell the franchise to someone who knows what their doing!

That's why no one is supporting the Chargers, they are boycotting Spanos!

[Sandy McFiddish]

I always call it Rich Stadium lol. I like how we always pack the stadium compared to more fare weather fans. Only time seats are empty here during a decent season is Christmas time for obvious reasons.

[Mat68]

I just think building a new stadium jacks prices of tickets and concessions up, forcing out the faithful and bringing in the upper class that are really only there for leisure, not passion. Almost like gentrifying the NFL.

 

It just strikes me that Buffalo seems to be the NFL problem child for lack of profit but the city is so consistent with its support. LA is so volatile and the fans have so many other options that NFL plays second fiddle to nearly all the franchises of other sports out there. I don't even think a new stadium will help the Rams much less the Chargers

 

Very simple, owners and the NFL does not care about individual fans. They care about markets and corperate dollars. Once the LA teams have luxury boxes and corpotate dollars dumped into the teams they wont care if the stadiums are filled.

[SoCal Deek]

But what still amazes me is that you have a massive market in LA and they can't fill a stadium (I know it's crappy but who cares). Then you have a tiny market team like Buffalo that manages to bring the faithful out every week and fill the stadium. Last I checked, the Bills don't have a nice and fancy stadium to attract people.

 

So Buffalo is doing more than it's fair share with less because it still targets the loyal fan base where it seems like all California teams are just throwing out a net and pulling in money from anywhere they can.

 

And why should The Ralph be updated when it really won't effect attendance all that much.

You sort of answered your own question. There are a tremendous number of options of things to do in Southern California on any given weekend. For example you may have just gone to a Dodgers, Angels, Galaxy, USC or UCLA Game on Saturday afternoon or night....just to name sporting events. Believe it or not you still have to find time to do laundry, wash the car, and mow the lawn before the weekend turns into Monday.

 

So...a nice Stadium is needed to woo fans to attend the NFL game in lieu of one of the other events listed above. Makes sense when you think about it.

[reddogblitz]

So...a nice Stadium is needed to woo fans to attend the NFL game in lieu of one of the other events listed above. Makes sense when you think about it.

I've never heard anyone in my whole life say "They have a cool stadium. Let's go to a game there."

[Gordio]

You sort of answered your own question. There are a tremendous number of options of things to do in Southern California on any given weekend. For example you may have just gone to a Dodgers, Angels, Galaxy, USC or UCLA Game on Saturday afternoon or night....just to name sporting events. Believe it or not you still have to find time to do laundry, wash the car, and mow the lawn before the weekend turns into Monday.

 

So...a nice Stadium is needed to woo fans to attend the NFL game in lieu of one of the other events listed above. Makes sense when you think about it.

 

 

I hate this argument. There is plenty of other stuff to do in Buffalo too. I love the beach argument. My friend lives out in Long Beach, he says he rarely goes in the beach. Says it is dirty & cold. Lake Erie is much nicer at least for swimming activities.

[SoCal Deek]

 

 

I hate this argument. There is plenty of other stuff to do in Buffalo too. I love the beach argument. My friend lives out in Long Beach, he says he rarely goes in the beach. Says it is dirty & cold. Lake Erie is much nicer at least for swimming activities.

Oh come on! Really? Having lived in both places....again, really?

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

I hate this argument. There is plenty of other stuff to do in Buffalo too. I love the beach argument. My friend lives out in Long Beach, he says he rarely goes in the beach. Says it is dirty & cold. Lake Erie is much nicer at least for swimming activities.

 

And, believe it or not, the water is warmer in Lake Erie than the Pacific, at least of the Cali coast.

[bbb]

Go Bonnies!

Go Bonnies!

 

[yungmack]

This exercise in false news surfaces every few months it seems. Then several people join in to "explain" the false facts. Then others present real facts (aka, the truth about the situation) and after awhile the topic dies away. Then, once again, it rises up and the cycle is repeated. As we know, this sort of thing isn't restricted to TBD but has become a pervasive feature of the American scene.

 

Anyway here are some facts:

 

The Dodgers and Lakers have unbelievably strong support no matter how the teams are doing. For Buffalo fans, please note that the last time the Dodgers were in the World Series was 1988. 29 years and still leading MLB in attendance. Soccer in LA has a huge following. Horse racing at both Santa Anita and Del Mar, while sliding downhill every season like horse racing in general, still tend to be among the leading tracks in attendance and handle. Believe it or not, but there are strong weekend amateur leagues for rugby, cricket and, of all things, polo. There are events for bicyclists, distance runners, surfers and who knows what else virtually every weekend.

 

From the time the Rams entered the NFL until Frontiere took them over, the team was always among the league leaders in attendance, often leading in that category. Putting a crappy product on the field, then moving to Anaheim, most definitely affected attendance. Moving to St. Louis then back to LA, again with a crappy product. The average age of the old time Rams fans is between senile and dead. So you have to connect with new, younger fans, Maybe they can do that, maybe they can't. But to expect rapturous and automatic support is silly.

 

The Chargers fan base in LA is virtually non-existent so why is anyone surprised at game turnout. Having among the highest prices in the NFL doesn't seem like the smartest way to garner support but then, it is the Spanos family. Besides, rabid Raider fans are much more common in LA than Rams or Chargers.

 

Don't know what the attendance was at the UCLA/Hawaii game (now there's a real "Can't Miss" match up) or at the USC/Stanford game. But historically, UCLA and USC lead the Pac-12 in attendance and by quite a bit. An off-week might just be the result of hellacious weather and the fact that UCLA, USC, the Rams and the Chargers all played at home within roughly 24 hours of each other. Add in soccer and the Dodgers to the mishmash while you're at it, and an idiotic start time for the USC game to accommodate television.

 

Here's an older article about Pac-12 attendance for those who are interested in that sort of thing. The most likely reason for the drop off in 2015 was that UCLA and USC weren't very good:

 

http://www.ocregister.com/2015/12/18/ucla-falls-from-top-spot-in-pac-12-football-attendance/

 

Anyway, gotta run. Dart league practice (not).

[purple haze]

Both the L.A. Coliseum and the Rose Bowl are awful places to watch a game...when the new stadium gets built, I expect attendance to go through the roof.

I don't, caveat being the Rams/Chargers aren't championship level. If they are just okay or worse folks will still not show up in droves when they can do a million other things. The Trojans get more butts in seats than either NFL team and they play in the same dump.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

$1.29B in relocation fees

 

....a tidy sum that conveniently BOUGHT the approval votes necessary......and now the NFL is concerned about the visuals showing tons of empty seats.........maybe they should contact the Jags about hefty bags to cover empty seats or pull a NASCAR and prohibit cameramen panning the emptiness......was reading an article today that parking at SF's Levi Stadium is 80 bucks......

[707BillsFan]

 

And, believe it or not, the water is warmer in Lake Erie than the Pacific, at least of the Cali coast.

I live in Sonoma County...some of the most beautiful rugged coastline around, but the water sucks...rough and always in the mid-50's. You need a wet suit to enter. SoCal on the other hand, a bit warmer....about 70.

[artmalibu]

I dont get the new stadium BS. I was at the cap last season and thought it was a nice place to see a game. Nothing about the stadium that would make me not want to go.

 

I hope the Bills tell the NFL to stick a new stadium up their a$$

[Mark Vader]

Spoke to a customer a few years ago. Her and her husband were 49ers season ticket holder from day one at Candlestick. Team still wanted a $50,000 PSL, on top of the Season Ticket prices.

Yep.

 

Same goes for my dad whose been a 49'ers season ticket holder for over 30 years.

 

There is no discount from the owners for loyalty.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I dont get the new stadium BS. I was at the cap last season and thought it was a nice place to see a game. Nothing about the stadium that would make me not want to go.

 

I hope the Bills tell the NFL to stick a new stadium up their a$$

 

...it's pressure from the NFL's two biggest greedmeisters, Jones and Snyder.....they HATE the revenue sharing concept despite both of these parasites buying their way into the NFL fraternity.....small market teams should be more self supporting and less dependent on revenue sharing but these azzclowns deny the economy of scale....our same suite at The Hat is $75,000 before we get into food and beverage & limo transportation to the games (another $2,500 plus per game)..same suite in their markets is $225K+ so we are out if that became the new Bills stadium tariff.....and many of our fellow suiteholders would bail as well....check out seat licenses for individuals league wide as well if you want real sticker shock.....NEVER works in Billsland or WNY IMO.....

[Cripple Creek]

I've always loved The Ralph or The Cap or whatever people call it these days. I appreciate how it's a simple structure built purely for football enthusiasts that can experience the game in all types of weather. What amazes me is that it always seems like the Bills sell out a ton or have mostly filled stadiums even when we suck (which has been frequent these last 17 years).

 

When we went to Toronto for one game per year, that really pissed me off because we wasted home field advantage and kinda dissed the city of Buffalo at the same time by doing it. Then the NFL owner groups and Roger keep calling for the Bills to update our stadium and saying Buffalo is a small market and not pulling its weight.

 

But then I look at this article and see the mess in LA with the Rams and the Chargers. That city doesn't deserve one team, let alone two. San Fran has a new stadium that seems like it's always empty the past couple of years.

 

My point is, I'm proud of our fan base and the "lower-class" stadium we have. I'm proud that we fill it to support our mostly bad to mediocre teams in good weather and bad. I hope we are able to stay at The Ralph for a long time kind of like the Packers at Lambaeu.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-nfl-is-seriously-concerned-with-empty-stadiums/ar-AArTqkb?li=BBnb7Kz

San Francisco attendance last season was 102.4% of capacity, #6 in the league.

[Rocky Landing]

A lot of people on here bashing Los Angeles. I curious, how many of you live in LA?

[Utah John]

I lived in the East Bay for several years and of course hated both the Raiders and the 49ers, but a buddy (a Broncos fan) had a ticket and took me to the 49ers game where they had the Joe Montana retirement celebration, playing against Denver. It was a great event to have been at, but the stadium (Candlestick) was really bad. The slope of the stands was pretty flat so we were far from the field. The fans were just as obnoxious and vulgar, or more so, than even the drunks are at Bills games. Incredibly vulgar. It was a night game and it was COLD. It cost a fortune to park in a marsh. Candlestick was right on the Bay and at high tide the entire dirt parking lot turned to mud. I'm surprised more people didn't get stuck. Even not counting the parking lot, the traffic was terrible getting there and getting home.

 

As someone else noted, San Jose is now the largest city in the Bay Area. With a better product and a comfortable stadium, the 49ers will do fine there. Yes, it's very hot in the entire area, except the peninsula including SF, in the summer, but the weather in the fall will be beautiful -- 60s and sunny most days.

 

I suspect a lot of SF-based fans won't go to the new stadium because they're basically in denial about SJ taking over as the largest city. SF is still much more exciting and fun, and much more attractive, but a lot more people live in SJ and points south, including over the mountains in Santa Cruz and Monterey, and southeast to Gilroy and Salinas. The stadium is following where the fans are.

[Mark Vader]

Very simple, owners and the NFL does not care about individual fans. They care about markets and corperate dollars. Once the LA teams have luxury boxes and corpotate dollars dumped into the teams they wont care if the stadiums are filled.

Absolutely.

 

The one thing that puzzles me is why it is taking so long with the construction of the stadium. They broke ground in 2016 with it scheduled to open in 2019. Now it won't be ready until 2020.

[uticaclub]

I dont get the new stadium BS. I was at the cap last season and thought it was a nice place to see a game. Nothing about the stadium that would make me not want to go.

 

I hope the Bills tell the NFL to stick a new stadium up their a$$

There's no reason to build a new stadium if you don't get the Super Bowl, New Era is fine as long as they renovate every decade or so, since Buffalo will never get a Super Bowl. Qualcomm hasn't been renovated since 1994 and has become such a shithole that it is now a nameless stadium since the company pulled their sponsorship and there will be no bowl games played there, I turned down free tickets to many events, did pay out the ass for GnR, because the stadium experience was so awful. I don't blame the Spanos that much for leaving, San Diego had so much to gain by helping out with a new stadium.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

There's no reason to build a new stadium if you don't get the Super Bowl, New Era is fine as long as they renovate every decade or so, since Buffalo will never get a Super Bowl. Qualcomm hasn't been renovated since 1994 and has become such a shithole that it is now a nameless stadium since the company pulled their sponsorship and there will be no bowl games played there, I turned down free tickets to many events, did pay out the ass for GnR, because the stadium experience was so awful. I don't blame the Spanos that much for leaving, San Diego had so much to gain by helping out with a new stadium.

What makes you so sure Buffalo won't get a Super Bowl if we have a retractable/closed stadium?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I always call it Rich Stadium lol. I like how we always pack the stadium compared to more fare weather fans. Only time seats are empty here during a decent season is Christmas time for obvious reasons.

Well, until november/december rolls around.

[Fadingpain]

What makes you so sure Buffalo won't get a Super Bowl if we have a retractable/closed stadium?

Because we have none of the other stuff surrounding the stadium that the NFL is looking for in a Superbowl hosting site.

[bbb]

Because we have none of the other stuff surrounding the stadium that the NFL is looking for in a Superbowl hosting site.

 

We will when Amazon puts it's 2nd headquarters here.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Because we have none of the other stuff surrounding the stadium that the NFL is looking for in a Superbowl hosting site.

Detroit got one about ten years ago. Maybe we should strive to be more like that shining city?

[yungmack]

Absolutely.

 

The one thing that puzzles me is why it is taking so long with the construction of the stadium. They broke ground in 2016 with it scheduled to open in 2019. Now it won't be ready until 2020.

Last winter's tremendous storms wrecked the work that had been done. They had to wait until all that rain stopped, then drain it, clean it out and basically start over.

[LABILLBACKER]

Both the L.A. Coliseum and the Rose Bowl are awful places to watch a game...when the new stadium gets built, I expect attendance to go through the roof.

The Coliseum is a toilet. The Rose Bowl is pure perfection....

Edited September 16, 2017 by LABILLBACKER

[Mark Vader]

You sort of answered your own question. There are a tremendous number of options of things to do in Southern California on any given weekend. For example you may have just gone to a Dodgers, Angels, Galaxy, USC or UCLA Game on Saturday afternoon or night....just to name sporting events. Believe it or not you still have to find time to do laundry, wash the car, and mow the lawn before the weekend turns into Monday.

 

So...a nice Stadium is needed to woo fans to attend the NFL game in lieu of one of the other events listed above. Makes sense when you think about it.

There are lawns in Los Angeles?

[Rocky Landing]

There are lawns in Los Angeles?

There are, here and there-- mostly in the more affluent neighborhoods. But, I think that most of the people mowing them tend to be soccer fans.

[purple haze]

The chargers always sold out at Jack Murphy Stadium, also known as Qualcomm. Dean Spanos is just a greedy bastard and doesn't deserve to own an NFL team. He should sell the franchise to someone who knows what their doing!

That's why no one is supporting the Chargers, they are boycotting Spanos!

Chargers were well supported. That said, Qualcomm was horrible. Spanos wasn't wrong about needing a new stadium.

The Coliseum is a toilet. The Rose Bowl is pure perfection....

Really? The scenery around the Rose Bowl is nicer, I'll give you that, but the stadium itself is just about as bad as the Coliseum.

[Punching Bag]

What makes you so sure Buffalo won't get a Super Bowl if we have a retractable/closed stadium?

 

Because according to NFL there are not enough hotel rooms to support a Superbowl.

 

They also have concerns about transportation and snow of course!

[Tierlifer]

LA is a bandwagon town. Always has and always will be.

 

The Dodgers (who have cooled off immensely) had a 3/4 filled stadium all summer when they were kicking everyone's butt.

[iinii]

Just win Baby!

[DefenseWins]

Hey to some of us older fans its still Rich Stadium

 

Actually, that first season, it was constantly referred to as "the stadium in Orchard park, NY"...

[bobobonators]

Wow I had not seen a picture of the 49ers last game until this thread. There may be 2,000 people in that stadium for the second half. That's ridiculous and embarrassing for the fanbase.

 

I don't blame the ownership in SF. SF is an iconic franchise in the NFL, have had a very, very rich history. Have had success in the last decade as well. And b/c the team builds a stadium 30-40 minutes you're telling me those clown fans in SF can't get their tiny little smart cars to drive that distance? Give me a break. What an embarrassment that fanbase is.

The part that actually made me laugh is that "70% of the seats are in the sun"..LMFAO..really???? Is SF located in Qatar? Will the SF fans melt if they sit in the sun on a 60 degree day for more than an hour??? B.R.U.T.A.L.

[Fan in San Diego]

There's no reason to build a new stadium if you don't get the Super Bowl, New Era is fine as long as they renovate every decade or so, since Buffalo will never get a Super Bowl. Qualcomm hasn't been renovated since 1994 and has become such a shithole that it is now a nameless stadium since the company pulled their sponsorship and there will be no bowl games played there, I turned down free tickets to many events, did pay out the ass for GnR, because the stadium experience was so awful. I don't blame the Spanos that much for leaving, San Diego had so much to gain by helping out with a new stadium.

Why should citizens of San Diego pay for Spanos's workplace? Nobody pays for my workplace except for me. Spanos could have easily borrowed money to build a new stadium, he had $400 mil in relocation fees? Spanos is a cheap skate who does not deserve to own an NFL team. The Rams owner is paying for his own workplace, Jerry Jones paid for his own, Pegula will pay for his own, Spanos doesn't have the smarts to run that franchise. F--- Spanos and the Chargers!

[KD in CA]

 

Just curious but why do you think the Raiders will be a disaster in Vegas? I think it was terrible that the Raiders left Oakland but I also think Vegas will do very well supporting a team. I lived there for a few years and residents were always looking for things to do outside of the casinos. You have the local resident support, you have visiting fans (who wouldn't want to go to Vegas to watch the Bills play) and you now have Raiders fans coming in for home games.

 

The Vegas Knights sold around 13,000 season tickets. Yeah its season one, but I think that's an indication showing the support for a local team there. Your talking about 10 home football games. Raiders will do just fine in Vegas. Of the three teams that moved this is the one that I actually think will thrive. Still sucks the Raiders left Oakland though but they were probably the smart ones to leave that area.

 

Vegas has never struck me as a city with any roots or sense of civic pride which I think is key to long term support. Almost everyone has moved there from somewhere else and brings their rooting interest with them. Of course, if you have a SB caliber team you can put them in South Dakota and be fine, and the curiosity factor will drive attendance in the first couple years, but I think it'll be hard to build long term success in Vegas.

[bobobonators]

 

Vegas has never struck me as a city with any roots or sense of civic pride which I think is key to long term support. Almost everyone has moved there from somewhere else and brings their rooting interest with them. Of course, if you have a SB caliber team you can put them in South Dakota and be fine, and the curiosity factor will drive attendance in the first couple years, but I think it'll be hard to build long term success in Vegas.

I agree

[Fan in San Diego]

 

Vegas has never struck me as a city with any roots or sense of civic pride which I think is key to long term support. Almost everyone has moved there from somewhere else and brings their rooting interest with them. Of course, if you have a SB caliber team you can put them in South Dakota and be fine, and the curiosity factor will drive attendance in the first couple years, but I think it'll be hard to build long term success in Vegas.

If the Vegas Raiders are run correctly, it should become the richest franchise in the NFL. It is the best city for travelling to and from, so the home team and visiting team will have lots of interest, sellouts every home game. Also sponsorship opportunities from every city that has an NFL team, because eventually every team will play there and Vegas is designed to accept visitors to have fun. It's a no brainer.