Dump the Entire Division System and ReTool

[Webster Guy]

Having divisions in the nfl reminds me of the ....., an old stupid way of doing things that has somehow carried over into modern day and just makes things worse.

 

As it stands, teams with losing records in weak divisions can limp into the post season and teams with 10 wins can miss the playoffs altogether.

 

Get rid of the divisions and mix it up, rank all the teams based on last years record, generate the schedules as fair as possible taking into account bye weeks, europe trips, coast to coast travel, thursday games etc. and lets play 16 different teams each year.

 

For all of you traditionalists, I say this game is already completely different than it was in the rockpile days, and you still love it enough to follow your team on a message board in July. So open your mind a little.

 

I'm not proposing this because I think its going to happen someday, its just a 'what if' that makes tons of sense, like moving the superbowl to 5pm saturday--so much logic supports it, yet its still not implemented.

 

Man I wish I could make the rules for one nfl season.

[Virgil]

I also believe that, in a sport where every game is so important, you shouldn't play any team twice in the regular season. You should have to play each team in your conference once, and then rotate other conference games in.

 

I get that you won't get a home skins/cowboys game every year, but I think it'll honestly be better for the sport and you'll see more home teams come to your stadium.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I also believe that, in a sport where every game is so important, you shouldn't play any team twice in the regular season. You should have to play each team in your conference once, and then rotate other conference games in.

 

I get that you won't get a home skins/cowboys game every year, but I think it'll honestly be better for the sport and you'll see more home teams come to your stadium.

Interesting thought. There would be one non conference game per team, per season in this scenario.

[Bills fan since 87]

I think I could get on board with this but absolutely love the idea of the Superbowl being on a Saturday. Both prob won't happen though.

[Steve Billieve]

We all have an obvious bias . . .

[ExiledInIllinois]

Pats** just got the memo. They say they like cheating against the Bills twice a year. They say leave it the same.

[May Day 10]

I have been on board with this

 

 

Lambeau Shula

Buffalo Houston

Cleveland Miami

Pittsburgh Jacksonville

Detroit Tampa Bay

Cincinnati Carolina

Chicago New Orleans

Minnesota Atlanta

Green Bay Tennessee

 

Parcells Walsh

New England Denver

NY Giants Los Angeles Rams

Washington Seattle

Philadelphia Kansas City

Baltimore Oakland

Dallas San Francisco

Indianapolis Los Angeles Chargers

NY Jets Arizona

 

 

It is treated more like NCAA football. Play each Division team 1x. rotate home/away year to year. Pair up 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 for an extra Divisional game to make 8 Divisional games. It would also keep teams at the top of the Division duking it out once more each season so you wouldnt lose the 'situational' rivalries that pop up. Then 4 from your other conference Division with typical home/away rotation, and 2/2 from each Division from the other conference with typical home/away rotation.

 

Conference winners get byes. #2 and #3 in each division play in the wildcard round. Then play for the conference championships and re-seed for the final 4.

Edited July 26, 2017 by May Day 10

[Hatszel]

I think I could get on board with this but absolutely love the idea of the Superbowl being on a Saturday. Both prob won't happen though.

I think a better plan would be to add two games and a bye week and play Superbowl on Presidents day weekend on Sunday

[teef]

Man...if they just put the superbowl on a Saturday and went back to the old format of the draft, I'd be pumped. I do like thenop's ideas. Interesting thoughts.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Super Bowl at 5:00pm on Saturday is a no brainer.

[Maury Ballstein]

Man...if they just put the superbowl on a Saturday and went back to the old format of the draft, I'd be pumped. I do like thenop's ideas. Interesting thoughts.

Super Bowl at 5:00pm on Saturday is a no brainer.

All in on Saturday Super Bowl. I'd vote for 7-8pm though

[teef]

All in on Saturday Super Bowl. I'd vote for 7-8pm though

Honestly...how great would that be? To have fun at a superbowl party without having to worry about going to work the next day! It's especially a pain for people living on the east coast.

[BuffaloFan68]

I'd be happy with switching Buffalo & Baltimore for now and then moving the Super Bowl to Saturday. It would be a couple of moves in the right direction.

Let's Go Buffalo!!!!!

[LI_Bills]

I think a better plan would be to add two games and a bye week and play Superbowl on Presidents day weekend on Sunday

 

Minus the extra two games, I've been saying this for the past few years. I would have no problem starting the regular season a week or two later. Football is a cold weather sport to me.

 

I think I suggested the Presidents weekend SB once on this board and was told not to drink so much during the Super Bowl. Sigh.

[Bills fan since 87]

EVERYONE watches the Super Bowl and would also do so on a Saturday. But I think the NFL's logic is there is more competition for things to do on a Saturday night so they're content with Sunday night. I heard somewhere recently that if you own Sunday night tv you get the greatest percentage of viewers tuned in compared to the rest of the week. Now I am ALL for a Saturday SB, have been for years. But the slight notion of the NFL losing .0005% of viewers scares them away, american worker be damned. They'll play the Super Sunday tradition card.

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm all for the top 6 best records in each conference make the playoffs.

Go away with winning the division as an automatic qualifier.

[KDIGGZ]

Just make it so we play our division once every year and when it comes to the playoffs the top 6 teams get in no matter the division. Simple

[Bills_Chick]

We all have an obvious bias . . .

 

Agreed, but it will prevent future dynasty teams from completely dominating a division. Like when the Browns are a dynasty team and the Steelers fans are sad 10 years from now or whatever.

[May Day 10]

 

Agreed, but it will prevent future dynasty teams from completely dominating a division. Like when the Browns are a dynasty team and the Steelers fans are sad 10 years from now or whatever.

 

It is a problem IMO. A team gets a franchise great QB and due to the 'blunt' 4-team divisional format, 3 teams become the Washington Generals for 10-20 years. Say the Jets get Sam Darnold and he becomes a Manning/Brady/Rodgers-level QB, and they manage the roster competently... It all but ensures that the Bills would not host a playoff game for a decade more +... The 4-team divisional format really can put your team and 3 others in a tough spot. I get the whole 'macho' "just beat them and it doesnt make a difference. It is easier than that though and I do think there are better ways to align the league. It stinks there are various coin-flip divisions like the Souths and sometimes the Wests, and then you have some that are on generational lock-down

 

And the current rivalries do nothing for me. The Patriots I hate, just because the success. I am worn down with 17 years of beat-downs and am at the point of malaise. I didnt shed a tear when the Colts left the AFC East... The Jets do nothing for me other than me disliking any NYC sports team. The Dolphins are nothing to me. A turquiose team with a minimal fanbase in a city that has nothing in common with me. The Marino-Kelly years were good, but mostly due to the situation that both teams happened to be at the top of the Division/Conference for 8 years or so. It could have been anyone else, really, didnt matter if it was Miami. Kind of like the nasty Seattle/San Francisco rivalry a few years ago. The NFL will get that no matter what, depending on who is good and competing for a run of a few years/seasons.

Edited July 26, 2017 by May Day 10

[Jeebus]

The divisions are fine and the way it is now works... we do have a bit of a sour taste in our mouth cause we have been stuck with the Patriots*, but they have been the exception to the rule, no other division has been like this. Playoffs are a different situation, I would like to see it go purely by record and not division winners.

[Peevo]

 

It is a problem IMO. A team gets a franchise great QB and due to the 'blunt' 4-team divisional format, 3 teams become the Washington Generals for 10-20 years. Say the Jets get Sam Darnold and he becomes a Manning/Brady/Rodgers-level QB, and they manage the roster competently... It all but ensures that the Bills would not host a playoff game for a decade more +... The 4-team divisional format really can put your team and 3 others in a tough spot. I get the whole 'macho' "just beat them and it doesnt make a difference. It is easier than that though and I do think there are better ways to align the league. It stinks there are various coin-flip divisions like the Souths and sometimes the Wests, and then you have some that are on generational lock-down

 

And the current rivalries do nothing for me. The Patriots I hate, just because the success. I am worn down with 17 years of beat-downs and am at the point of malaise. I didnt shed a tear when the Colts left the AFC East... The Jets do nothing for me other than me disliking any NYC sports team. The Dolphins are nothing to me. A turquiose team with a minimal fanbase in a city that has nothing in common with me. The Marino-Kelly years were good, but mostly due to the situation that both teams happened to be at the top of the Division/Conference for 8 years or so. It could have been anyone else, really, didnt matter if it was Miami. Kind of like the nasty Seattle/San Francisco rivalry a few years ago. The NFL will get that no matter what, depending on who is good and competing for a run of a few years/seasons.

 

 

This is so good.

 

I completely agree. Why is the NFL so desperate to make "Bills-Jets" happen? 3 straight years on Thursday Night Football. Stop trying to make it happen. It's never going to happen.

 

I hate the old rivalries, the entire system is completely flawed and is desperate need of change.

 

Why so many fans are so hesitant to any new ideas that COULD MAKE THE BILLS COMPETITIVE is beyond this poster.

[mead107]

So you don't want to face the best?

[Maury Ballstein]

This is so good.

 

I completely agree. Why is the NFL so desperate to make "Bills-Jets" happen? 3 straight years on Thursday Night Football. Stop trying to make it happen. It's never going to happen.

 

I hate the old rivalries, the entire system is completely flawed and is desperate need of change.

 

Why so many fans are so hesitant to any new ideas that COULD MAKE THE BILLS COMPETITIVE is beyond this poster.

Hate it.

 

Cowboys Redskins

Chiefs Broncos

Eagles Giants

Bills Dolphins

Packers Bears

 

Is where it's at.

[May Day 10]

Hate it.

 

Cowboys Redskins

Chiefs Broncos

Eagles Giants

Bills Dolphins

Packers Bears

 

Is where it's at.

 

one of things is not like the others....

 

 

do people in Miami even realize there is a rivalry?

 

I would rank Buffalo vs Miami very low. Maybe lower than Houston/Indy. It hasn't been relevant for 20 years, and a whole generation has no idea. Hell, I am a year from 40 and have no experience with the 70's domination. Just about a little more than a dozen Kelly/Marino games ages ago. The Patriots' fans probably see the Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Jets, and Broncos as bigger rivals than the Bills. Maybe even the Giants. Jets fans don't care about the Bills.

[Peevo]

 

one of things is not like the others....

 

 

do people in Miami even realize there is a rivalry?

 

I would rank Buffalo vs Miami very low. Maybe lower than Houston/Indy. It hasn't been relevant for 20 years, and a whole generation has no idea. Hell, I am a year from 40 and have no experience with the 70's domination. Just about a little more than a dozen Kelly/Marino games ages ago. The Patriots' fans probably see the Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Jets, and Broncos as bigger rivals than the Bills. Maybe even the Giants. Jets fans don't care about the Bills.

 

 

I don't really even think the players care that much.

 

The schedule should be first and foremost about competitive balance and equal opportunity.

 

The Patriots domination of the AFC East has shifted the balance of power so far in their direction, it would benefit other AFC contenders to not have them walk into a first round bye every season. Think about it, New England has to win one playoff game to lock in their spot in the AFC title game every year.

 

That's insane. The system is desperate need of reform.

[row_33]

The aim in the Age of Parity is to have as many teams vying for a playoff spot as is mathematically possible.

 

They KNOW that 2 NFL divisions each year are going to be such trash that 8-8 could plausibly win the division, they WANT it to be that way, there you get 8 fanbases all excited about a playoff possibility, even those with a 1-5 start.

Hockey has done the honourable thing and weeded out garbage teams early in the the season.

 

A few years ago the system was so perfect that teams more than 4 points back of the 8th playoff spot in the NHL were basically finished by November 1st.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2013/10/30-thoughts-playoff-chase-begins-early-in-nhl.html

Isn't it fun to hit the last 6 weeks of the Bills season with dozens on here calculating that if the Bills win all 6 and 48 other games go the Bills way that they might get the 4th level of tiebreaker to go the Bills way?

most Blue Jays fans and media are arguing the team is still a major Wild Card contender 9 or 10 under .500 in last place of the AL East, bless their little hearts...

Edited July 26, 2017 by row_33

[Peevo]

The aim in the Age of Parity is to have as many teams vying for a playoff spot as is mathematically possible.

 

They KNOW that 2 NFL divisions each year are going to be such trash that 8-8 could plausibly win the division, they WANT it to be that way, there you get 8 fanbases all excited about a playoff possibility, even those with a 1-5 start.

Hockey has done the honourable thing and weeded out garbage teams early in the the season.

 

A few years ago the system was so perfect that teams more than 4 points back of the 8th playoff spot in the NHL were basically finished by November 1st.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2013/10/30-thoughts-playoff-chase-begins-early-in-nhl.html

Isn't it fun to hit the last 6 weeks of the Bills season with dozens on here calculating that if the Bills win all 6 and 48 other games go the Bills way that they might get the 4th level of tiebreaker to go the Bills way?

 

 

 

This is an interesting analysis. I don't what really the answer is. Ultimately, I as a fan want a championship. It's very unrealistic for the Bills or Sabres this season to seriously compete for one. That's how tanking gets into the conversation.

 

Patriots domination of the AFC, the terrible state of QB play overall in the league, and the playoff format makes it very, very hard for Buffalo to clinch a spot every season.

 

So what is the goal? You have to be VERY bad to clinch the 1st pick, and you have to be the Patriots to win a championship. The Bills are about exactly halfway between these two realities. What's the point? The NFL has a problem on its hands and no one seems to care. When you have 1 team that has a chance at winning, realistically winning it all, what is the point of any of this?

 

I honestly have no hope left. I can't conceive a reality in which the Bills are ever good. I'm broken. Cue the Pantera riff.

[macaroni]

I also believe that, in a sport where every game is so important, you shouldn't play any team twice in the regular season. You should have to play each team in your conference once, and then rotate other conference games in.

 

I get that you won't get a home skins/cowboys game every year, but I think it'll honestly be better for the sport and you'll see more home teams come to your stadium.

I'll take it one step further ....

 

Add two teams (one in each conference), and then each team plays every other team in their conference once ... no cross conference games ... have your playoffs consist of the top however many teams you want within the conference, and have the Super Bowl be between the AFC and NFC champions.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

one of things is not like the others....

 

 

do people in Miami even realize there is a rivalry?

 

I would rank Buffalo vs Miami very low. Maybe lower than Houston/Indy. It hasn't been relevant for 20 years, and a whole generation has no idea. Hell, I am a year from 40 and have no experience with the 70's domination. Just about a little more than a dozen Kelly/Marino games ages ago. The Patriots' fans probably see the Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Jets, and Broncos as bigger rivals than the Bills. Maybe even the Giants. Jets fans don't care about the Bills.

It works for me. Love going to the Miami game, where's it's 30% or higher bills fans.

[Runninrams]

for all the crying about having to play the Pats 2x a year....its only 2 games out of 16. What's the excuse for crapping the bed in the other 14 games? 2 of which are gimme wins (Jets)

[row_33]

Repeats of the 8 divisions winners from 2002 to 2014 ranged from 1 (once) to 6 (twice)

 

Even with the dominance of the Pats and Colts the average repeat division winner of 8 is 3.

 

That's perfect parity, the goal of the NFL.

 

Mind you, every year the "experts" pick 7 or 8 teams to easily repeat.

[Virgil]

I'll take it one step further ....

 

Add two teams (one in each conference), and then each team plays every other team in their conference once ... no cross conference games ... have your playoffs consist of the top however many teams you want within the conference, and have the Super Bowl be between the AFC and NFC champions.

I don't think that will ever happen. I don't want the Bills to never play a team in the NFC. To never get to see some of those great players would be a disservice to the fans.

[shrader]

I'll take it one step further ....

 

Add two teams (one in each conference), and then each team plays every other team in their conference once ... no cross conference games ... have your playoffs consist of the top however many teams you want within the conference, and have the Super Bowl be between the AFC and NFC champions.

 

This structure is the only way it could ever work to not have divisions. The only way you can fairly seed teams is if they all play the same schedule. That's obviously pretty tough with only a 16 game season, thus the need to at least divide the teams in half. The costs of travel are always going to get in the way of everyone playing each other once though. No matter what people say, the structure with divisions is never going to go away. No matter what system anyone comes up with to determine playoff seeding, there is going to be flaws.

[row_33]

 

This structure is the only way it could ever work to not have divisions. The only way you can fairly seed teams is if they all play the same schedule. That's obviously pretty tough with only a 16 game season, thus the need to at least divide the teams in half. The costs of travel are always going to get in the way of everyone playing each other once though. No matter what people say, the structure with divisions is never going to go away. No matter what system anyone comes up with to determine playoff seeding, there is going to be flaws.

 

What sport has balanced schedules, they all are lopsided, baseball by far the worst if it hands out Wild Cards.

[row_33]

Did the NHL go fully balanced back in the 21 team days, with everyone playing 4 times against each other?

[Bills_Chick]

 

It is a problem IMO. A team gets a franchise great QB and due to the 'blunt' 4-team divisional format, 3 teams become the Washington Generals for 10-20 years. Say the Jets get Sam Darnold and he becomes a Manning/Brady/Rodgers-level QB, and they manage the roster competently... It all but ensures that the Bills would not host a playoff game for a decade more +... The 4-team divisional format really can put your team and 3 others in a tough spot. I get the whole 'macho' "just beat them and it doesnt make a difference. It is easier than that though and I do think there are better ways to align the league. It stinks there are various coin-flip divisions like the Souths and sometimes the Wests, and then you have some that are on generational lock-down

 

And the current rivalries do nothing for me. The Patriots I hate, just because the success. I am worn down with 17 years of beat-downs and am at the point of malaise. I didnt shed a tear when the Colts left the AFC East... The Jets do nothing for me other than me disliking any NYC sports team. The Dolphins are nothing to me. A turquiose team with a minimal fanbase in a city that has nothing in common with me. The Marino-Kelly years were good, but mostly due to the situation that both teams happened to be at the top of the Division/Conference for 8 years or so. It could have been anyone else, really, didnt matter if it was Miami. Kind of like the nasty Seattle/San Francisco rivalry a few years ago. The NFL will get that no matter what, depending on who is good and competing for a run of a few years/seasons.

 

Agreed. And stop scaring me with your Jets scenario!

[SoCal Deek]

I'd love it if they played every team in the Conference once, and a few twice depending on the record. The AFC and NFC would only play in the Super Bowl. OLD SCHOOL!

[shrader]

 

What sport has balanced schedules, they all are lopsided, baseball by far the worst if it hands out Wild Cards.

 

The closet case to a balanced schedule can be found within the division. And that's why when determining the playoffs, you are first compared against those other teams in the division. There will never be an ideal system as long as schedules aren't balanced, and schedules will never be balanced.

[Fan in San Diego]

I also believe that, in a sport where every game is so important, you shouldn't play any team twice in the regular season. You should have to play each team in your conference once, and then rotate other conference games in.

 

I get that you won't get a home skins/cowboys game every year, but I think it'll honestly be better for the sport and you'll see more home teams come to your stadium.

 

I like this idea

[row_33]

 

The closet case to a balanced schedule can be found within the division. And that's why when determining the playoffs, you are first compared against those other teams in the division. There will never be an ideal system as long as schedules aren't balanced, and schedules will never be balanced.

 

Fair enough, i see the NFL as the best for parity and opportunity to rise and fall. The SB reps from the NFC are balanced more than any other sport the last 20 seasons, the AFC a lot less though.

 

I'm hearing the NHL did it perfectly with 21 teams playing 2 home and away for a few seasons.

 

Soccer in Europe plays a home and away balanced schedule each season domestically.