Bills doing homework on 2017 QBs

[papazoid]

#1 - Tpegs wants a qb

 

#2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future.

 

#3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer

Edited April 12, 2017 by papazoid

[starrymessenger]

do you remember all the Bills talk around Hackenberg before that draft? Did the bills really have an interest in him? I don't think they did. but it moved the Jets to take him earlier than thought. the kid is still on the bench.

 

Shame on the Jets. Even I thought that was a bonehead move.

[YoloinOhio]

#1 - Tpegs wants a qb

 

#2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future.

 

#3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer

Trubisky is pretty mobile

[PolishDave]

#1 - Tpegs wants a qb

 

#2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future.

 

#3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer

 

Trubisky is pretty mobile

 

The only QB in this draft that fits Whaley's size requirements is Kizer.

 

And Kizer isn't worth a first round draft. So, I am guessing they take him in the second if he is still there. If not, then maybe they take a flyer on a later round guy like Peterman - even thought they are not really confident he will become the starter and/or franchise material at some point.

 

Wildcard factor = McDermott

 

If McDermott tells Whaley go get me "this qb" because I am going to bet my coaching tenure here on him. Then I think Whaley goes and gets him whoever that is. Don't know if McDermott is that high on anybody.

 

P.S. If the Bills end up taking Trubisky - how long is it before the bills fans turn him into a Polak by misspelling his last name to make him look Polish - Trubiski - like they did with Belichick - and made him Belicheck so he sounds Polish?

Edited April 12, 2017 by PolishDave

[YoloinOhio]

Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case?

Edited April 12, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[PolishDave]

Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case?

 

Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that.

 

Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5"

EJ = 6'5"

Cardale = 6'5"

 

Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan

 

Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4"

 

Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of.

[jeffismagic]

 

Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that.

 

Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5"

EJ = 6'5"

Cardale = 6'5"

 

Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan

 

Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4"

 

Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of.

 

Don't forget Big Hands. Whaley was very clear on that with EJ.

[Dr. Who]

Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case?

EJ and Cardale are big, so on that basis and supposed Pittsburgh background and Big Ben = size requirement in many people's minds.

I think that is an overgeneralization based on small sample size. Either we are involved in an elaborate smokescreen or we are interested in a number of qbs likely to go in the first round. Personally, I like Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky and very much hope we end up with one of these fellas.

 

[PolishDave]

EJ and Cardale are big, so on that basis and supposed Pittsburgh background and Big Ben = size requirement in many people's minds.

I think that is an overgeneralization based on small sample size. Either we are involved in an elaborate smokescreen or we are interested in a number of qbs likely to go in the first round. Personally, I like Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky and very much hope we end up with one of these fellas.

 

 

No.

 

There was a rumor that Whaley strongly favors tall quarterbacks.

 

I offered the examples of those 3 quarterbacks as evidence that suggests the rumor could very well be true.

 

I didn't invent that thought because of EJ and Cardale. The rumor was there first. Then I went and looked at who Whaley drafted and thought hmm.... maybe there is truth to that rumor.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that.

 

Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5"

EJ = 6'5"

Cardale = 6'5"

 

Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan

 

Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4"

 

Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of.

I don't consider Ben one of Whaley's picks. I think he was mostly a pro scout in Pittsburgh, correct? The other two I do, could be a pattern but too small of a sample size to draw a conclusion about who he is open to drafting. He also really liked Prescott.

[SWATeam]

 

Don't forget Big Hands. Whaley was very clear on that with EJ.

No chance of that, thanks to your contributions

[PolishDave]

I don't consider Ben one of Whaley's picks. I think he was mostly a pro scout in Pittsburgh, correct? The other two I do, could be a pattern but too small of a sample size to draw a conclusion about who he is open to drafting. He also really liked Prescott.

 

We shall see.

 

If he takes a shorter guy early - then I guess size isn't a deciding factor for him. I don't know that it is for sure. Just thinking the rumor makes sense.

 

My opinion on Whaley (could be totally wrong about this - it is an unfounded opinion) is that he is the type of GM who thinks that his opinions of players potential are more important than the players' playing history and proven track records. Just my sense of him. Can't explain why I think that of him. Just a gut feeling. Could be completely off base.

[YoloinOhio]

 

We shall see.

 

If he takes a shorter guy early - then I guess size isn't a deciding factor for him. I don't know that it is for sure. Just thinking the rumor makes sense.

 

My opinion on Whaley (could be totally wrong about this - it is an unfounded opinion) is that he is the type of GM who thinks that his opinions of players potential are more important than the players' playing history and proven track records. Just my sense of him. Can't explain why I think that of him. Just a gut feeling. Could be completely off base.

most QBs are shorter than EJ and Cardale so good chance he does

 

I agree TT was a Rex signing... but dont forget Orton and Cassel! Both were Whaley signings. Neither were super tall.

Edited April 12, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[PolishDave]

most QBs are shorter than EJ and Cardale so good chance he does

 

I agree TT was a Rex signing... but dont forget Orton and Cassel! Both were Whaley signings. Neither were super tall.

 

You are correct.

 

When bringing in a free agent though, your choices are much more limited. Most of the time when you sign a free agent quarterback, you don't expect him to become a franchise qb.

 

When you draft a qb you draft him with the intention of him hopefully becoming a franchise guy. So you are pickier about such things like size requirement. And you can afford to be pickier when drafting as there are more college QB's with unknown upside potential than there are free agent qb's with unknown upside potential. The upside potential on most free agent QB's has already been determined to be "less than franchise QB quality". (whether right or wrong)

 

Free agent QB's are selected based on - best choice of a small pool of guys already mostly proven to be not good enough.

 

Drafted QB's are selected based on - who do you think can become a franchise QB or an elite NFL qb

[YoloinOhio]

 

You are correct.

 

When bringing in a free agent though, your choices are much more limited. Most of the time when you sign a free agent quarterback, you don't expect him to become a franchise qb.

 

When you draft a qb you draft him with the intention of him hopefully becoming a franchise guy. So you are pickier about such things like size requirement. And you can afford to be pickier when drafting as there are more college QB's with unknown upside potential than there are free agent qb's with unknown upside potential. The upside potential on most free agent QB's has already been determined to be "less than franchise QB quality". (whether right or wrong)

 

Free agent QB's are selected based on - best choice of a small pool of guys already mostly proven to be not good enough.

 

Drafted QB's are selected based on - who do you think can become a franchise QB or an elite NFL qb

true. Kizer certainly "looks like" EJ/Cardale in many ways. We shall see.

 

Also will be interesting if the Browns go through with cutting Osweiler (cuz you know he's not good enough for them, eye roll) for the size factor

[PolishDave]

true. Kizer certainly "looks like" EJ/Cardale in many ways. We shall see.

 

Also will be interesting if the Browns go through with cutting Osweiler (cuz you know he's not good enough for them, eye roll) for the size factor

 

Yeah.

 

Personally I think the whole size thing is B.S.

 

Does it help you see the field better if you are taller - of course. Does it help you to control the ball better if your hands are big - most definitely.

 

Still can have really talented players who are a little undersized. Drew Brees Russ Wilson among many others in history.

 

If Whaley truly does have a (very tall) qb size requirement - and I knew that to be factually true, I would think much less of him as a talent evaluator. Because that would prove that he thinks his intelligence supersedes the importance of a players playing ability. Which of course is bullcrap.

[Dr. Who]

There are probably certain minimums that make sense, but too strict a size criteria is foolish.

[Figster]

 

Yeah.

 

Personally I think the whole size thing is B.S.

 

Does it help you see the field better if you are taller - of course. Does it help you to control the ball better if your hands are big - most definitely.

 

Still can have really talented players who are a little undersized. Drew Brees Russ Wilson among many others in history.

 

If Whaley truly does have a (very tall) qb size requirement - and I knew that to be factually true, I would think much less of him as a talent evaluator. Because that would prove that he thinks his intelligence supersedes the importance of a players playing ability. Which of course is bullcrap.

Anything below the height of most linemans shoulder pads limits a QB's view of the football field in my humble opinion.

 

In the right system the limitation can be managed.

 

On the other hand why draft a 6 ft one QB If a '6 4" QB with the same skill set is available.

[WhoTom]

I have to agree with Logic - if they see someone they think could be a franchise QB, they'll take him whenever he's available. I know they got burned doing that with EJ, but they probably looked at other times when they didn't pull the trigger - Russel Wilson, for example - and regretted waiting. It's better to roll the dice and crap out than not to play at all.

[YoloinOhio]

The fact that McD said it could be a smokescreen, and both John Murphy and Sal said they think it's a smokescreen, I'm thinking it isn't.

[Dr. Who]

The fact that McD said it could be a smokescreen, and both John Murphy and Sal said they think it's a smokescreen, I'm thinking it isn't.

Leroi also says smokescreen, so I am inclined to agree with you.

 

Imo

[jeffismagic]

Leroi also says smokescreen, so I am inclined to agree with you.

 

Imo

Yes, the Bills are not very good at tricking people.

 

Hey Bills, don't say you are doing a smoke screen! Not believable.

[YoloinOhio]

To clarify I only think it's a smokescreen that they could take one at 10. I do think they will take one in the 2nd.

 

I don't buy the hype of all these QBs going early.

[Riverboat Richie]

No one is even sure that there is ONE starter in the group and there is going to be a top ten run? I don't think so. San Fransico needs a starter now and the Jets would be no better off than they are now at QB. Cleveland can wait til their second pick. AZ and Buffalo don't need a starter for this coming season so they can sit a guy for the year. It would surprise me if one was picked before the Bills pick.

[BillsFan17]

I kind of feel like, they may like one or two of them. If they are they may consider them, but won't make a rash move to go up and get one. I think Trubisky is the apple of THE QB class around the league.

 

Howeve, Buffalo has Tyrod, Yates and Cardale under contract, so if they do draft a kid high... do we keep four QBs? Do we run the risk of putting Jones on the practice squad? Do we cut Yates and let the draft pick and Jones battle it out?

 

I don't think anything should prevent you from drafting a QB if you think he is the guy... I just don't get the sense that we will go that way under McDermott.

 

The guy has talked about building a long term solution here. To me, I think mcdermott will build a roster and if the QB they want is there go for it, but they want a culture here and are content with Tyrod at the helm as they transition.

[26CornerBlitz]

@billsupdates

NFL Draft 2017: Buffalo Bills 'very serious' about drafting QB at 10 (report): http://trib.al/qjzoDEQ

[jeffismagic]

I kind of feel like, they may like one or two of them. If they are they may consider them, but won't make a rash move to go up and get one. I think Trubisky is the apple of THE QB class around the league.

 

Howeve, Buffalo has Tyrod, Yates and Cardale under contract, so if they do draft a kid high... do we keep four QBs? Do we run the risk of putting Jones on the practice squad? Do we cut Yates and let the draft pick and Jones battle it out?

 

I don't think anything should prevent you from drafting a QB if you think he is the guy... I just don't get the sense that we will go that way under McDermott.

 

The guy has talked about building a long term solution here. To me, I think mcdermott will build a roster and if the QB they want is there go for it, but they want a culture here and are content with Tyrod at the helm as they transition.

 

If McDermott ties his coaching career to Tyrod Taylor he will have a short stay here.

 

We shall see what his vision is quite soon. Very scary to have this guy making the call.

[BillsFan17]

 

If McDermott ties his coaching career to Tyrod Taylor he will have a short stay here.

 

We shall see what his vision is quite soon. Very scary to have this guy making the call.

I don't think they are tying their future to him, but I do think they brought him back to give them a little but of a cushion.

 

They don't have to force a QB selection, instead they can let the draft come to them at the position. If the guy they like falls to them they can make the pick if they so choose.

 

However, without Tyrod they may have possibly even been tempted to trade up to ensure they get a QB.

[Dr. Who]

I don't think they are tying their future to him, but I do think they brought him back to give them a little but of a cushion.

 

They don't have to force a QB selection, instead they can let the draft come to them at the position. If the guy they like falls to them they can make the pick if they so choose.

 

However, without Tyrod they may have possibly even been tempted to trade up to ensure they get a QB.

Imo, Tyrod on a cheap contract is a good scenario for drafting a young qb that needs a year or two to develop.

I am not dismissing Cardale Jones, but I surmise he is a longshot to be a relevant NFL qb. So it seems rational to me to draft a qb with potential to become a franchise qb.

I don't think it's Tyrod and I doubt it is Jones. What's the point of having a bridge qb without a developing qb to provide a "destination" for the bridge?

All this, of course, presupposes there are qbs available in the draft who have that potential.

 

Btw, Greg Gabriel's April 14 Mock draft has Watson going to the Bears, Mahomes the Jets, and Trubisky to the Bills.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Dr. Who

[GunnerBill]

Didn't know where to stick this but Gil Brandt's big board has Trubisky as his 8th best player overall, Watson as his 9th, Mahomes as his 18th and DeShone Kizer as his 33rd.

 

 

Now none of the other talking heads on the networks with the exception of Bill Polian have the experience of evaluating draft prospects that Brandt has.

 

This class does not suck. It never sucked. I don't know where that narrative started but it is wrong. There are plenty of respected draft guys out there with first round (and in some cases high first round) grades on these Quarterbacks.

Edited April 17, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Rocky Landing]

I don't think they are tying their future to him, but I do think they brought him back to give them a little but of a cushion.

 

They don't have to force a QB selection, instead they can let the draft come to them at the position. If the guy they like falls to them they can make the pick if they so choose.

 

However, without Tyrod they may have possibly even been tempted to trade up to ensure they get a QB.

i'm very glad they kept Tyrod. Dumping him would have put us in the same position that got us EJ. If TT is a "bridge QB," (which I don't believe is a given) then so be it. Better than having no bridge at all.

 

Personally, I'm preferring Kizer at this point as a draft prospect. And hopefully not before round 3. I'm also looking forward to whatever competition Cardale offers in TC. And I think that Chad Kelly as a UDFA would be fun.

 

That is all.

[BillsFan17]

See that's the thing, when, if ever outside of Rodgers, who is a rare case, has a team taken a QB in the first round to groom and actually followed that path?

 

Palmer sat for an entire season, as did Rivers. However, worked out both guys in front of them, Kitna and Brees respectively had very good seasons.

 

Point is, today's NFL is way too impatient. The first sign of struggle from the starter the backup will always be the most popular guy among fans.

 

Especially a kid in the first. Especially in a league where injuries as so abundant. And especially when coaches jobs are on the line.

 

So yes, we could grab a kid who has to groom to be the aire apparant, but who is to say we don't wait and snag a kid next year who is more NFL ready, could still ideally sit for a year, and if anything you feel more comfortable if said QB gets thrown in a little sooner...

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't think they are tying their future to him, but I do think they brought him back to give them a little but of a cushion.

 

They don't have to force a QB selection, instead they can let the draft come to them at the position. If the guy they like falls to them they can make the pick if they so choose.

 

However, without Tyrod they may have possibly even been tempted to trade up to ensure they get a QB.

...in a bad QB draft. Billsy.

[YoloinOhio]

So they've met with every QB except Watson? Hmmm

[BuffaloHokie13]

So they've met with every QB except Watson? Hmmm

But Whaley is in love with Watson

[BigBuff423]

We've seen what Drafting for "need" does to an NFL team, I was not in favor of keeping Tyrod merely because I DON'T think he is a very good QB as NFL QBs go, but I do appreciate the plan, the didactic means of allowing their Draft plan to come to them. That said, I think we sometimes underestimate the power of coaching in the NFL because we assume a great prospect will nearly automatically translate to a great NFL player, and certainly with QBs that is very far from true. So, I think I would prefer the team to unearth the talent and cultivate it to its top potential....so if its Webb from Cal or Peterman from Pitt or some other lesser "hyped" commodity, than so be it....because we can have a list of names that QBs were not projected to be "the" QB, and instead based on situation and coaching and potential emerged as fantastic players, including QBs.

[Webster Guy]

I think we want to trade down, maybe more than once even.

 

Cleveland is the whale this year, and they don't offer us anything if they think we're drafting a LB or Dback for need. There are also a few teams that may want QB ahead of Cleveland at 12 so that helps us too.

 

Evaluating qb's like we have for this draft isn't just a smokescreen, it's legitimate due diligence on the most important position in the game. Some of these dudes will be there in the second round as well.

 

What excites me is there are a big handful of future pro bowlers on the defensive side in this draft and we have the opportunity to get a few of them next week.

 

And of course the fact that nobody ever gets mock drafts even close to what actually happens. Tons of predictions but less than 20% historical accuracy in the first round and far less than that in later rounds.

 

Remember we got slashed by Ajayi twice last year and Bell once, in record setting numbers. That wasn't just scheme, it was against an 8 man front when we knew it was coming. To me that means we need another defensive heavy draft.

[jeffismagic]

We've seen what Drafting for "need" does to an NFL team, I was not in favor of keeping Tyrod merely because I DON'T think he is a very good QB as NFL QBs go, but I do appreciate the plan, the didactic means of allowing their Draft plan to come to them. That said, I think we sometimes underestimate the power of coaching in the NFL because we assume a great prospect will nearly automatically translate to a great NFL player, and certainly with QBs that is very far from true. So, I think I would prefer the team to unearth the talent and cultivate it to its top potential....so if its Webb from Cal or Peterman from Pitt or some other lesser "hyped" commodity, than so be it....because we can have a list of names that QBs were not projected to be "the" QB, and instead based on situation and coaching and potential emerged as fantastic players, including QBs.

 

Great point. Trubisky with Shanahan vs Trubisky in Cleveland.

[Bill_with_it]

So they've met with every QB except Watson? Hmmm

They met with Watson at the combine.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTAaybXhk9v/

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bill_with_it

[Bangarang]

They met with Watson at the combine.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTAaybXhk9v/

No pre-draft visit or workout though