Vic C's BN piece--really rips Rex as defensive coach

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

 

Ooooh, Wanton Desires! Pick me, pick me! I wanna cling to those Wanton Desires! Pick me!

 

Don't be silly, Cat, no one desires RR to be thought of as a failure. By some metrics, he in fact did fail last year - he said we were going to the playoffs, we didn't. He said #4 D was disappointing with the players he had, the D did worse. Anyone who points these things out, but is a true-blue Bills Fan, would like nothing else than to be proven wrong next year. I feel fairly certain we would all line up with a cheerful prance and a SEG for our personal helping of Crow Pie.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Don't be silly, Cat, no one desires RR to be thought of as a failure. By some metrics, he in fact did fail last year - he said we were going to the playoffs, we didn't. He said #4 D was disappointing with the players he had, the D did worse. Anyone who points these things out, but is a true-blue Bills Fan, would like nothing else than to be proven wrong next year. I feel fairly certain we would all line up with a cheerful prance and a SEG for our personal helping of Crow Pie.

 

Maybe a better choice of words would be condemning Rex Ryan a failure. It is obvious Rex Ryan didn't meet expectations regarding the win/loss record and restarted a defense that made it regress. But saying he is a failure after one season is way premature.

 

There are plenty of bad things to say about Rex's work in buffalo. But what about the good? When Rex was hired, the joke was Rex is a great defensive coach, but he can't get a good offense going and can't develop a QB worth anything. So he comes to buffalo, and he probably ends up getting one of the best offenses he has had as a HC, and arguably a good QB with a good OC.

 

Rex over came his biggest weakness that everyone said he couldn't do regarding the offense. No one questioned his defensive mind before the season started. Yeah, this was a season worth forgeting as far as defense goes. But looking at his history, it would be very unusual for his defense to be outside the top ten in consecutive years. Im thinking we see a much better defense next year. Anyone that doesn't think the defense will be great next year is solely basing their opinion off of last season alone and not Ryan's whole body of work.

 

Ryan wasn't a top choice for me for HC. But people saying that it is a done deal that he has failed and should be ousted are being ridiculous and over reacting

[BackInDaDay]

 

You're usually quite funny

 

This one, Hmmmm, not so much

 

not trying to be funny.. Pegula may know fracking, but he doesn't seem to know squat about running sports franchises.. and i can count on one finger the number of middle-aged Korean women are in on NFL FO decisions. but hey, lets be all PC and pretend both she and her husband have a clue.

they've screwed this team up for years to come with their Ryan hire.

[Nihilarian]

 

Maybe a better choice of words would be condemning Rex Ryan a failure. It is obvious Rex Ryan didn't meet expectations regarding the win/loss record and restarted a defense that made it regress. But saying he is a failure after one season is way premature.

 

There are plenty of bad things to say about Rex's work in buffalo. But what about the good? When Rex was hired, the joke was Rex is a great defensive coach, but he can't get a good offense going and can't develop a QB worth anything. So he comes to buffalo, and he probably ends up getting one of the best offenses he has had as a HC, and arguably a good QB with a good OC.

 

Rex over came his biggest weakness that everyone said he couldn't do regarding the offense. No one questioned his defensive mind before the season started. Yeah, this was a season worth forgeting as far as defense goes. But looking at his history, it would be very unusual for his defense to be outside the top ten in consecutive years. Im thinking we see a much better defense next year. Anyone that doesn't think the defense will be great next year is solely basing their opinion off of last season alone and not Ryan's whole body of work.

 

Ryan wasn't a top choice for me for HC. But people saying that it is a done deal that he has failed and should be ousted are being ridiculous and over reacting

It's not way premature in my view.

 

It wasn't just the overall defense regressing as the 2015 Buffalo Bills were the 2nd worst team in the NFL in penalties. The team that was worst fired their HC. What stays in my mind was the 7 first downs the Bills defense gave the NY Giants offense among others.

 

The defensive play calls coming in late!

Player substitutions coming in late! and so much so that the slower teams would hurry to the line to catch the Bills not ready.

Defensive players jumping around on the line so that when the ball was snapped they would be out of position.

 

Special teams went into the toilet this past year in every aspect.So many penalties on the offense too. In general, the team overall was undisciplined for a lot of the season. The 2015 Bills played their best against this HC's former team for revenge. Now will that revenge factor keep going?

 

The only bright spots were from the new OC hire and the offensive players. Most notably Tyrod Taylor at QB who was the polar opposite of Geno Smith in not turning the ball over like Geno did to kill his Jets team. A very complex run scheme that didn't require the players to scratch their heads and say WTF or they didn't understand the complex offense, complain about how they were being used. Save Sammy, who spoke up and started seeing more targets.

 

Somehow Rex Ryan managed to ruin the Jets team he inherited that he went to the AFC championship 2x his first two years. Then he ruined that rookie QB in Mark Sanchez who took those teams to the playoffs. And another rookie QB in Geno Smith went 8-8 his first year and then became a turnover machine his next going 3-10 his next year. I kind of shudder to think of what will happen to Tyrod this year under Ryan.

This current HC proclaimed playoffs! He proclaimed the #4 defense with this much talent was nothing and that he would do better, he didn't! Ask the Jets fans about all the broken promises.

 

Good head coaches generally come into a team and make them better...not worse! All I see is delaying the inevitable.

[8-8 Forever?]

Seems a little one-sided, and I don't buy that the Pegulas thought Schwartz was staying. If they really wanted him to stay they wouldn't have hired Rex. That's not a match at all. Even if Rex had kept him it wouldn't have made sense. Not how Rex coaches.... He calls the plays. They have very different defensive philosophies. The anonymous coach may be accurately portraying some things. I have no idea. Otherwise, nothing new was presented in the article that hasn't been hashed and rehashed a thousand times.

 

I have never thought Vic was a poor writer. I have thought he may have a poor source on some things.

if the article is true, then the Pegs are naive and don't know what they are doing, at least when it comes to knowing how to read people, and how to hire an NFL head coach. But they did save the franchise and overpaid for franchise so they could give it back to the fans who would have lost it otherwise. The Bills would have met the Rams fate eventually. So just because they don't know how to hire people, well that piece has to be overlooked... they saved the franchise without question.

 

a couple years of a crappy defensive transition bc the owner is naive and inexperienced is a small price to pay for saving the franchise. Let it go. Rex is our guy, warts and all. Whaley is solid, Roman is solid, they have talent on both sides of the ball. no more days of Losman and undrafted starters, high school offensive coordinators, and Buddy Nix. See the positive, people.

Edited February 16, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore

[DanInUticaTampa]

It's not way premature in my view.

 

It wasn't just the overall defense regressing as the 2015 Buffalo Bills were the 2nd worst team in the NFL in penalties. The team that was worst fired their HC. What stays in my mind was the 7 first downs the Bills defense gave the NY Giants offense among others.

 

The defensive play calls coming in late!

Player substitutions coming in late! and so much so that the slower teams would hurry to the line to catch the Bills not ready.

Defensive players jumping around on the line so that when the ball was snapped they would be out of position.

 

Special teams went into the toilet this past year in every aspect.So many penalties on the offense too. In general, the team overall was undisciplined for a lot of the season. The 2015 Bills played their best against this HC's former team for revenge. Now will that revenge factor keep going?

 

The only bright spots were from the new OC hire and the offensive players. Most notably Tyrod Taylor at QB who was the polar opposite of Geno Smith in not turning the ball over like Geno did to kill his Jets team. A very complex run scheme that didn't require the players to scratch their heads and say WTF or they didn't understand the complex offense, complain about how they were being used. Save Sammy, who spoke up and started seeing more targets.

 

Somehow Rex Ryan managed to ruin the Jets team he inherited that he went to the AFC championship 2x his first two years. Then he ruined that rookie QB in Mark Sanchez who took those teams to the playoffs. And another rookie QB in Geno Smith went 8-8 his first year and then became a turnover machine his next going 3-10 his next year. I kind of shudder to think of what will happen to Tyrod this year under Ryan.

This current HC proclaimed playoffs! He proclaimed the #4 defense with this much talent was nothing and that he would do better, he didn't! Ask the Jets fans about all the broken promises.

 

Good head coaches generally come into a team and make them better...not worse! All I see is delaying the inevitable.

 

Regarding the special teams, they had the exact same coaches they had the year before.

 

Like I said, problems with the defense shouldn't carry over into the next season. Rex Ryan was coaching top defenses even before his jets days. Based on his history, he has only been outside the top ten in defense one before last year. To think his defense wont be good this year you would have to ignore his entire history and just base an opinion on last year which is absurd.

 

And Rex Ryan ruined Mark Sanchez? I don't think Sanchez had any value other than a body to hand the ball off to people. I dont think many people would argue that sanchez failed because of rex, and same with Geno.

 

The Penalties are probably the biggest issue from last year that may carry over into this season. That is one thing they didn't really have an answer for and I don't like the chances of them fixing that issue.

 

Condemning a coach after 1 season is ridiculous and an over reaction.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

That will NEVER happen.

 

Carroll can draft a guy in the fifth round because he fits his prototype of size and speed and then coaches them up to fit his defense. Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor say hello.

 

If the talent isn't already there in the player Rex Ryan can't coach up anything or anyone. First round picks Quinten Couples, Dee Milner say hello. Oh wait, his proclivity for feet will say it was all the GM's fault

 

That's what we thought about Bylsma when he won the Stanley cup and many winning seasons. So in couple yrs when Rex is out and Seattle declines don't be surprised When Ol' Petey is introduced as the new HC of the Buffalo Bills!

Edited February 16, 2016 by Buffalo Barbarian

[dave mcbride]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

Oh c'mon. If it was in fact Donnie Henderson who said those things, that's news. I know you've made it your thing to go after those who criticize Ryan, but no one here wants the Bills to fail under Rex. Most fans on this board aren't dumb; they're reacting to facts on the ground.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

not trying to be funny.. Pegula may know fracking, but he doesn't seem to know squat about running sports franchises.. and i can count on one finger the number of middle-aged Korean women are in on NFL FO decisions. but hey, lets be all PC and pretend both she and her husband have a clue.

they've screwed this team up for years to come with their Ryan hire.

 

You can make all of those points without making an apparent analogy between Terry Pegula and the late John Lennon, or between Kim Pegula, a Korean orphan adopted and raised by white American parents in America-which makes her American, not Korean - and Yoko Ono, a Tokyo-raised Japanese artist. Korea and Japan are not of a muchness, and Korean ethnic features do not make an American Korean.

 

As for the woman in on NFL FO decisions, Georgia Frontiere gave my spiritualist a message for you. She said to remind you she was initially belittled and even harassed as being unable to run a football team as she gently waved her Superbowl ring and alluded to the Rams 25 postseason appearances and 3 Superbowl appearances under her 3 decade aegis as owner.

 

Kim and Terry may succeed, they may not succeed, they may learn to delegate and bow out of actual sports decisions (Frontiere eventually did) or they may not. But either way will be because of their own qualities as leaders, not because you don't see other "middle aged Korean women" in the Sports ownership game.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and crap talk is just crap talk, and saying "let's be all PC" to mean "you're just being PC and I'm a manly man beyond such stuff" doesn't change either.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Hopeful

[FireChan]

 

You can make all of those points without making an apparent analogy between Terry Pegula and the late John Lennon, or between Kim Pegula, a Korean orphan adopted and raised by white American parents in America-which makes her American, not Korean - and Yoko Ono, a Tokyo-raised Japanese artist. Korea and Japan are not of a muchness, and Korean ethnic features do not make an American Korean.

 

As for the woman in on NFL FO decisions, Georgia Frontiere gave my spiritualist a message for you. She said to remind you she was initially belittled and even harassed as being unable to run a football team as she gently waved her Superbowl ring and alluded to the Rams 25 postseason appearances and 3 Superbowl appearances under her 3 decade aegis as owner.

 

Kim and Terry may succeed, they may not succeed, they may learn to delegate and bow out of actual sports decisions (Frontiere eventually did) or they may not. But either way will be because of their own qualities as leaders, not because you don't see other "middle aged Korean women" in the Sports ownership game.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and crap talk is just crap talk, and saying "let's be all PC" to mean "you're just being PC and I'm a manly man beyond such stuff" doesn't change either.

I do think an element of "we can't criticize the Pegula's decisions because they bought the Bills," does exist. Wouldn't necessarily call that a PC thing, however.

[YoloinOhio]

Oh c'mon. If it was in fact Donnie Henderson who said those things, that's news. I know you've made it your thing to go after those who criticize Ryan, but no one here wants the Bills to fail under Rex. Most fans on this board aren't dumb; they're reacting to facts on the ground.

i don't think it was Henderson because of what was said and when he said it. I'm pretty sure he knows the defense's stats and wouldn't publically trash his own work when he's still looking for a job. It sounded like a coach who was there under Schwartz and was not there this past year. Henderson was the only holdover iirc.

[The Big Cat]

Oh c'mon. If it was in fact Donnie Henderson who said those things, that's news. I know you've made it your thing to go after those who criticize Ryan, but no one here wants the Bills to fail under Rex. Most fans on this board aren't dumb; they're reacting to facts on the ground.

 

My "thing?" I criticize ideas, not people.

 

I will however question the motive behind burning calories on something that makes you miserable.

[Malazan]

Whatcha mean "will;" he already is.

 

because it's idiocy to completely dismiss the idea, that he manages some success, all together.

 

Or more matter of factly, his tenure as the Head Coach of the Bills is not over so "will" is the appropriate word.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

not trying to be funny.. Pegula may know fracking, but he doesn't seem to know squat about running sports franchises.. and i can count on one finger the number of middle-aged Korean women are in on NFL FO decisions. but hey, lets be all PC and pretend both she and her husband have a clue.

they've screwed this team up for years to come with their Ryan hire.

Jesus, man...

[Tenhigh]

A lot of BBFS in this thread, let's all take a deep breath...

[GunnerBill]

 

 

I will however question the motive behind burning calories on something that makes you miserable.

 

You really think it is that simple to just quit on your team because they make you miserable? If it was that easy we wouldn't all still be here posting and debating whether the defense should play more man or zone or whether we should rush 3 or 4 or 5..... we come to this forum and debate those things because even though at times this team makes us miserable we can't quit it. If I just wanted to be happy all the time I'd go support a team that wins all the time - I don't. I will stick with the Bills through thick and thin thinking all the miserable will eventually be worth the excitement and delight.

[3rdand12]

 

not trying to be funny.. Pegula may know fracking, but he doesn't seem to know squat about running sports franchises.. and i can count on one finger the number of middle-aged Korean women are in on NFL FO decisions. but hey, lets be all PC and pretend both she and her husband have a clue.

they've screwed this team up for years to come with their Ryan hire.

who cares where she is from?

if the article is true, then the Pegs are naive and don't know what they are doing, at least when it comes to knowing how to read people, and how to hire an NFL head coach. But they did save the franchise and overpaid for franchise so they could give it back to the fans who would have lost it otherwise. The Bills would have met the Rams fate eventually. So just because they don't know how to hire people, well that piece has to be overlooked... they saved the franchise without question.

 

a couple years of a crappy defensive transition bc the owner is naive and inexperienced is a small price to pay for saving the franchise. Let it go. Rex is our guy, warts and all. Whaley is solid, Roman is solid, they have talent on both sides of the ball. no more days of Losman and undrafted starters, high school offensive coordinators, and Buddy Nix. See the positive, people.

good post!

[The Big Cat]

 

You really think it is that simple to just quit on your team because they make you miserable?

 

No.

[3rdand12]

 

No.

There are some here to have an extra set of analogies for Ryan.

negative ones.

Not critical, just negative.

and yea some just hate him no matter what.

Strange , but true

[KollegeStudnet]

I remember reading a post a year ago on here about Schwartz being upset that the Bills went with Ryan over and offensive minded coach. His departure was set.

I for one loved the idea of Rex being here, and still do. I just wished he would pull his head out of his *** and put together a dominating 'bully' he said he would.

[Nitro]

Rex needs to employ the KISS principle. Keep it simple stupid. Getting caught up in jargon and substitutions. Use a base set and keep the calls short. Let your defenders play and react rather than the think of difference contingencies. The Bills had talent and the defensive philosophy hampered them last season. Hope Rex learned his lesson and is going to change.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I do think an element of "we can't criticize the Pegula's decisions because they bought the Bills," does exist. Wouldn't necessarily call that a PC thing, however.

 

You're probably correct, there's a strain of gratitude for some that feels the Pegulas' actions in buying the Bills places them above reproach.

 

I'm all for criticizing the Pegulas' decisions if someone feels they need criticizing. And I've certainly expressed my concerns about the decision to hire Rex.

[Nihilarian]

 

Regarding the special teams, they had the exact same coaches they had the year before.

 

Like I said, problems with the defense shouldn't carry over into the next season. Rex Ryan was coaching top defenses even before his jets days. Based on his history, he has only been outside the top ten in defense one before last year. To think his defense wont be good this year you would have to ignore his entire history and just base an opinion on last year which is absurd.

 

And Rex Ryan ruined Mark Sanchez? I don't think Sanchez had any value other than a body to hand the ball off to people. I dont think many people would argue that sanchez failed because of rex, and same with Geno.

 

The Penalties are probably the biggest issue from last year that may carry over into this season. That is one thing they didn't really have an answer for and I don't like the chances of them fixing that issue.

 

Condemning a coach after 1 season is ridiculous and an over reaction.

The coaches on special teams? More like Danny Crossman is the only ST coach that I'm aware of in 2015. In my view, the ST's regressed because Ryan wasn't helping coach the special teams like Marrone did with his buddy Danny. The extra players on game day weren't there to help the ST's this past year.

 

 

For whatever reason Ryan simply didn't call many blitzes in all of 2015 and that stat was usually around less the 10% per game. Simply calling more blitzes would have helped the defense immensely last year and when he did call a blitz it was usually very successful. Blitzing more will help in 2016 should Ryan go back to what made his early NY Jets defenses so good by blitzing 35 to 55 %. In comparison last year, the Broncos blitzed around 40% of the defensive snaps.

 

Still, that won't help with the lack of solid communication between coaches and players during a game or late defensive play calls coming in. In one game EJ was forced to run to the sidelines to get every play and it happened to Tyrod too. It also won't help with the late player substitutions and the overall lack of discipline.

 

 

This past year with Tyrod Taylor the offense was a hand off, run first, pound it out run offense which is exactly why Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith were somewhat successful in their beginning seasons. Then the coaches demanded them to carry the game with their arms rather then handing off like they used to do and the result was near catastrophe for both. This same thing could happen this year in Buffalo.

 

 

Lots of teams have fired their head coaches after one season and lots more should have. I can only think that if the Bills knew then what they know now would Jauron, Gailey, Marrone or any HC since Wade Phillips have been retained more than one year, if at all. This isn't a rookie or first timer at being an NFL HC the Buffalo Bills hired! In someone, that needs to learn as he goes. After six years as the Jets HC if he doesn't have it down by now, he never will!

 

Think about the games won this past year and the only games the Bills really played a solid game that they were really prepared to play was against his old team for revenge in the NY Jets 2x. Then division games against the Dolphins 2x. The Bills had all offseason to prepare for the Colts and that defense we all saw in the first game is what we all expected for the rest of the year.

 

Bottom Line the 2015 Bills had an easy schedule and still lost to bad teams.The reality is that they only beat the teams with bad QB's. Yes, Andrew Luck went 2-5 in 2015. I don't ever see Rex Ryan beating the Patriots as long as Belichick and Brady are in NE. Like I said, just delaying the inevitable!

[GunnerBill]

 

For whatever reason Ryan simply didn't call many blitzes in all of 2015 and that stat was usually around less the 10% per game. Simply calling more blitzes would have helped the defense immensely last year and when he did call a blitz it was usually very successful.

 

Whilst I agree more blitzes would have helped - we blitzed more than any other team week 1 and we beat the Colts and beat up Luck.... after that the New England road game was the only other blitz heavy plan - actually the stats on our success with the blitz are interesting. The Jets road game for example both their TDs came against the blitz and Cousins picked us off when we brought the blitz a couple of times in that game too.

[Adam]

Yep. They blew it by hiring Rex. And the rebuilding that mistake will cause next year keeps the Bills out of the playoffs till at least 2020.

[CardinalScotts]

Schwartz had a good year as DC he also had terrible years, and to act like this defense under schwartz would have over came the different pieces and the injuries is dreaming to say the least. No Spikes and move Preston over too, Bradham goes out injured as well. Start without McKelvin, loose Aaron Williams, have to play Graham all year at safety for the first time in his career. No Searcy plug in Rambo (whos descent) or Duke (whos not) and loose Kyle Williams and Jarius Wynn. These same people cried last year about Schwartz rotating guys in. My thought is with Schwartz we're about the same on points per game and less on yardage but also very close. This goes next to the undisciplined team UNDER Rex ...Buffalo was 5th most penalized with Marrone while out of control Rex and the Jets were 22nd. Doesnt fit the argument so pull a WGR and ignore it. Lastly we talk like we just finished a 2-14 season. It was 8-8 boys and many of us will be eating our words in 2016- I'll take the guy with the 16 year long track record of building dominating defenses.

Edited February 17, 2016 by CardinalScotts

[GunnerBill]

Schwartz had a good year as DC he also had terrible years, and to act like this defense under schwartz would have over came the different pieces and the injuries is dreaming to say the least. No Spikes and move Preston over too, Bradham goes out injured as well. Start without McKelvin, loose Aaron Williams, have to play Graham all year at safety for the first time in his career. No Searcy plug in Rambo (whos descent) or Duke (whos not) and loose Kyle Williams and Jarius Wynn. These same people cried last year about Schwartz rotating guys in. My thought is with Schwartz we're about the same on points per game and less on yardage but also very close. This goes next to the undisciplined team UNDER Rex ...Buffalo was 5th most penalized with Marrone while out of control Rex and the Jets were 22nd. Doesnt fit the argument so pull a WGR and ignore it. Lastly we talk like we just finished a 2-14 season. It was 8-8 boys and many of us will be eating our words in 2016- I'll take the guy with the 16 year long track record of building dominating defenses.

 

The only people on this board who have supposed to speculate on how the Schwartz D would have done in 2015 with the injuries are the Rex apologists. It is hypothetical and unproveable. Pure speculation.

 

I hope I am eating my words in 2016 I really, really do.

Edited February 18, 2016 by GunnerBill

[Nihilarian]

 

The only people on this board who have supposed to speculate on how the Schwartz D would have done in 2015 with the injuries are the Rex apologists. It is hypothetical and unproveable. Pure speculation.

 

I hope I am eating my words in 2016 I really, really do.

I agree.

 

What Jim Schwartz did in previous years and on other teams has virtually no bearing on what he did in Buffalo. He utilized the elite Bills players on the roster and allowed them to make plays in doing what they do best. The 2014 Buffalo Bills defensive roster fit the scheme Schwartz ran very well and I can only think it would have gotten better in 2015 under him with some fine tuning and asking for specific players in the offseason.

 

While Mario is long gone and not a concern there still is both Dareus and Kyle Williams who don't fit in a 3-4 and clearly didn't work in Ryan's version of a 4-3. I just don't see a top 10 defense in Buffalo in 2016 and things could go south really fast if Ryan attempts to run the same version of defense he ran in 2015 again this season.

 

As you mentioned in a previous post, Ryan did get burned at times when he did blitz and I think after six years in NY NFL teams have caught up with his complex zone blitz scheme. The only way to make his scheme work is to have some superstars on the defense at Linebacker...and he doesn't.

 

All Bills fans have at this point is hope and it's working against a tougher schedule this year. I can only think all the teams in the AFC will improve for 2016 and I see Belichick upgrading that line like crazy to protect Brady.

[The Big Cat]

 

The only people on this board who have supposed to speculate on how the Schwartz D would have done in 2015 with the injuries are the Rex apologists.

 

So when many people were saying that the 2015 Bills defense would regress because there was NO CHANCE they would repeat the non-injuries from the year before...those people were...apologizing in advance?

[GunnerBill]

 

So when many people were saying that the 2015 Bills defense would regress because there was NO CHANCE they would repeat the non-injuries from the year before...those people were...apologizing in advance?

 

Depends when they were doing it. There were a lot of people pushing the Rex's defense will be better from the moment he was hired and saying "the only reason it won't is injuries" to cover themselves. I don't care about predictions and I don't care about excuses. Just rate the production - what did you do with what you had?

 

In 2012 Wannstedt did abysmally

In 2013 Pettine did pretty well

In 2014 Schwartz did very well

In 2015 Rex and Thurman did pretty badly

[The Big Cat]

 

Depends when they were doing it. There were a lot of people pushing the Rex's defense will be better from the moment he was hired and saying "the only reason it won't is injuries" to cover themselves. I don't care about predictions and I don't care about excuses. Just rate the production - what did you do with what you had?

 

In 2012 Wannstedt did abysmally

In 2013 Pettine did pretty well

In 2014 Schwartz did very well

In 2015 Rex and Thurman did pretty badly

 

By any reasonable observation, the 2015 defense was for more reliable than the 2013 one. But whatever. I get it, only sacks matter.

 

Who cares that Pettine's D's couldn't stop the run if the game depended on it? (and they often do/did)

[3rdand12]

I keep wondering. Were the Bills defense all that Bad? Or just a disappointment.

maybe a bit of both?

[GunnerBill]

 

By any reasonable observation, the 2015 defense was for more reliable than the 2013 one. But whatever. I get it, only sacks matter.

 

 

No. It is you arguing only rushing yards matter. On almost every other metric and supported by a worse offense, worse special teams and worse average field position the 2013 defense was better. I didn't love the 2013 defense... not by any means. But I hated last year's defense and if any Bills fan thinks we can make the play-offs playing defense like that until we have an established and experienced franchise Quarterback they are kidding themselves. Take a lot of the consensus franchise guys in the NFL in their first 3 years and give them that defense and they struggle.

[Nihilarian]

 

No. It is you arguing only rushing yards matter. On almost every other metric and supported by a worse offense, worse special teams and worse average field position the 2013 defense was better. I didn't love the 2013 defense... not by any means. But I hated last year's defense and if any Bills fan thinks we can make the play-offs playing defense like that until we have an established and experienced franchise Quarterback they are kidding themselves. Take a lot of the consensus franchise guys in the NFL in their first 3 years and give them that defense and they struggle.

I would think that any QB would struggle with a defense like the Bills 2015 defense. To put last year's defense it in context it was a Dave Wannstedt bad defense stats wise and the very worst in sacks in the 50+ year history of the team!! (aside from the strike years).

That's unbelievably bad in my view and quite honestly I just don't get the nonchalant attitude about this from the fans defending this HC hire. Sacks themselves are only a number and it's what comes along with the sacks that are what's most important! Those Hits, hurries, and pressures on the QB are essential for every defense to be able to perform at a decent level in all aspects.

Another NFL team also went 8-8 last season with an already established veteran franchise QB and he played in all 16 games. They had a really good RB that rushed for 1056 yards, 11 TD's. A great WR that had 1800 yards receiving. *8 TD's.

That team was the only team in the NFL worse than the 2015 Buffalo Bills in sacks, QB pressures.

What Rex Ryan did last season in Buffalo was criminal in my view because he actually worked up a decent game plan for about six games and coasted for the other ten. Meaning he stole money from these new Buffalo Bills owners. Taking arguably the very best defensive line in the league and making them look average to below average was also criminal considering what the team was paying that front four. How the man is still employed by this team is a testament to his ability to bull **** his way around things. I can only wonder what his excuse will be when he is eventually fired in Buffalo and I wonder what words he will have for Buffalo after that happens.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Nihilarian

[dave mcbride]

 

By any reasonable observation, the 2015 defense was for more reliable than the 2013 one. But whatever. I get it, only sacks matter.

 

Who cares that Pettine's D's couldn't stop the run if the game depended on it? (and they often do/did)

That is false. For instance, Football Outsiders, which hardly cares only about sacks, disagrees pretty strongly. I trust their metrics.

 

2013: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2013

 

2015: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

[NoSaint]

That is false. For instance, Football Outsiders, which hardly cares only about sacks, disagrees pretty strongly. I trust their metrics.

 

2013: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2013

 

2015: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

I would listen to arguments between the two but anyone summararily placing '15 ahead as if it's just a given is silly

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

If Rex is such a defensive Guru, why has his first draft pick every year except one as a head coach been for a defensive player? why the need? Also why have his defenses always regressed year after year?

[SinceThe70s]

 

By any reasonable observation, the 2015 defense was for more reliable than the 2013 one. But whatever. I get it, only sacks matter.

 

Who cares that Pettine's D's couldn't stop the run if the game depended on it? (and they often do/did)

 

I'm 100% with you regarding the 2013 defense. The sacks blinded many to the fact that the run defense was non-existent. Wasn't that the year that L. Blount looked like a man among boys? (and no it wasn't just the return game...that just made it worse).

[Punching Bag]

If Rex is such a defensive Guru, why has his first draft pick every year except one as a head coach been for a defensive player? why the need? Also why have his defenses always regressed year after year?

His first pick has NEVER been a defensive player; he has never had control of draft and you have confused him with fired HC of Eagles who had GM power.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

His first pick has NEVER been a defensive player; he has never had control of draft and you have confused him with fired HC of Eagles who had GM power.

The coach and GM work together.