Now is when McCoy's contract bites us in the butt

[jester43]

I know we're all supposed to hate Mike Rodak, but I think this piece is helpful for Bills fans...it also indirectly brings the dubious nature of McCoy's contract back up for discussion I know that's been done to death, but the article shows why in better detail:

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23161/answering-key-bills-2016-free-agency-and-salary-cap-questions

 

I agree with most here that on a player-for-player basis, the trade worked (unless someone can convince me that Kiko would have lit it up here this year- I haven't seen anyone make that point). But the generous extension was unnecessary and ties our hands going forward. they basically overpaid McCoy to get him to report. Now we have a problem.

 

The left side of our OL is going to get a big raise one way or the other. If/when we cut Mario, we probably have enough money to keep them, but not much more. McCoy's big cap number is a problem.

 

If everyone can put their torches and pitchforks down long enough to accept that the defense could improve with a few new pieces, you could have some hope for next year- only now our options are limited due to cap restraints.

 

Whaley's getting a chance to sort this out, but he must use better judgment going forward.

 

We also need a HELL of a draft to fill some of these holes. This past year looks like Whaley's best so far, he'll need to prove it wasn't a fluke.

 

I still think we're positioned to be BETTER next year, but the biggest obstacle is not Rex, it's our tight cap situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Did you notice that we were down to ONE running back yesterday?

[Mr. WEO]

Did you notice that we were down to ONE running back yesterday?

 

 

Because McCoy was injured.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

The author of that article indicated that Whaley's main concern is resigning glenn and incognito and not going to be adding much via free agency because of the restrictions with the cap. Fans have to realize this team might not be better next year.

 

So essentially he is hinting at cutting mario to free up cap space for glenn/incognito as the main moves.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[Rubes]

Did you notice that we were down to ONE running back yesterday?

 

Did Boobie get hurt, too? I thought I saw him in for a couple of plays.

[papazoid]

#1- it's not wise to invest big money at the RB position. too late for the bills to undo mccoys deal.

 

#2- the bills have way to many needs (about 10 positions) and not enough cap room.

 

#3- our schedule gets harder for 2016

[Dawgg]

Did you notice that we were down to ONE running back yesterday?

 

Yes. Which only furthers the points that have been made:

 

1. Extending McCoy to a top-market deal when he had 3 years remaining was a boneheaded front office move. Bills had all the leverage here and he could have played with his current deal as-is.

 

2. Productive RBs can be found without expending significant resources. Karlos was a 5th rounder, Gillislee was signed off the street midseason.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Cut Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Dan Carpenter, Leodis McKelvin, EJ Manuel, Cyrus Kouandjio, Marquis Goodwin and we should be in decent shape.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Cut Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Dan Carpenter, Leodis McKelvin, EJ Manuel, Cyrus Kouandjio, Marquis Goodwin and we should be in decent shape.

 

You just cut 5 starters that you have to replace.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[BillsVet]

It further illustrates that last year's spending spree came with a price that some are realizing. Cap space is a commodity that must be managed efficiently and the Bills have done a poor job of that over the years.

 

This is my major beef with Whaley. He's been in win-now mode since RW passed without a playoff appearance to show for it. There's no way anyone can say the team has had a blueprint for building a perennial contender. Making trades into the top 10 and spending big on free agents or traded for RB's is not a strategy.

 

Eventually the go-for broke method means you pay up and I suspect that happens in 2016.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BillsVet

[Santana]

Just wanted to post this to show the exact break down of Shady's contract for reference.

 

Year Age Base Salary Signing Bonus Workout Bonus Cap Hit Dead Cap

2015 26 $2,625,000 $2,625,000 $250,000 $5,500,000 $18,500,000

2016 27 $4,800,000 $2,625,000 $250,000 $7,675,000 $13,000,000

2017 28 $6,000,000 $2,625,000 $250,000 $8,875,000 $7,875,000

2018 29 $6,075,000 $2,625,000 $250,000 $8,950,000 $5,250,000

2019 30 $6,175,000 $2,625,000 $250,000 $9,050,000 $2,625,000

Edited January 4, 2016 by Lincoln Osiris

[BuffaloBillsForever]

It further illustrates that last year's spending spree came with a price that some are realizing. Cap space is a commodity that must be managed efficiently and the Bills have done a poor job of that over the years.

 

This is my major beef with Whaley. He's been in win-now mode since RW passed without a playoff appearance to show for it. There's no way anyone can say the team has had a blueprint for improving the team. Well, unless you exclude big draft day trades and spending binges.

 

Eventually the go-for broke method means you pay up and I suspect that happens in 2016.

 

Yup. I have been saying this for over a year now.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

 

You just 5 starters that you have to replace.

 

So what's your point?

how many games did Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams miss? Mario Williams checked out all season so he won't be missed. Dan Carpenter can't hit extra points.

 

Kyle is over the hill and needs to be replaced. Aaron won't be the same after that injury. So I really don't see the point in keeping them here. Time to get younger and better.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

 

So what's your point?

how many games did Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams miss? Mario Williams checked out all season so he won't be missed. Dan Carpenter can't hit extra points.

 

Kyle is over the hill and needs to be replaced. Aaron won't be the same after that injury. So I really don't see the point in keeping them here. Time to get younger and better.

 

The point is the money you free up cutting these players has to be used to replace those same players. That cuts into re-signing players and filling any current holes on the team. Drafting is only going to net you 1...2 if your damn lucky starting caliber players. Sometimes you might not even have one.

 

It's a HUGE point. Bills are not in fine shape.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[Santana]

It further illustrates that last year's spending spree came with a price that some are realizing. Cap space is a commodity that must be managed efficiently and the Bills have done a poor job of that over the years.

 

This is my major beef with Whaley. He's been in win-now mode since RW passed without a playoff appearance to show for it. There's no way anyone can say the team has had a blueprint for building a perennial contender. Making trades into the top 10 and spending big on free agents or traded for RB's is not a strategy.

 

Eventually the go-for broke method means you pay up and I suspect that happens in 2016.

 

I understand your frustration but it's hard to be that upset about the job Whaley has done. Compared to the years before when Buffalo would be 20mil plus under the cap and just wouldn't spend the money to get good players. I like Whaley and I actually applaud him for actually trying and landing talent here. People tend to forget that when your team hasn't been to the playoffs you have to spend more to get good players. Every trade that he's made has worked out IMO.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

 

The point is the money you free up cutting these players has to be used to replace those same players. That cuts into re-signing players and filling any current holes on the team. Drafting is only going to net you 1...2 if your damn lucky starting caliber players.

 

It's a HUGE point. Bills are not in fine shape.

 

No it's not. The point is to get rid of their HUGE contracts and draft players that will fill their role which would cost a lot less.

 

You have no point. lol.

 

This is how successful teams are built. Build through the draft and keep the cost of the team manageable.

 

U don't think we can replace Mario's 5 sacks for less than 19 million? lol

Edited January 4, 2016 by QuoteTheRaven83

[BuffaloBill]

I think it is wrong to put the situation on Shady's contract alone. TT was a huge unknown coming into the season and the Bills put a bet on the possibility of a strong running attack. So they signed the player they wanted.

 

Here are the likely solutions:

 

Mario Williams is the obvious cut

While I hate the thought of it and it flies in the face of the recently granted extension Kyle Williams could go. I think this is a 50/50

Like the above relative to contract - Aaron Williams could be on the bubble given his injury history - I think this move is likely

Enough on the Williams brothers

 

Urbick is as good as gone

Boobie is gone

No way do the Bills re-up Percy Harvin

The coaches love affair with China doll Marquis Goodwin is over

McLuvin us probably granted his generous offer to move to safety and is granted a pay cut

 

Outside of Mario none of the above are big hitters. However, to say the Bills are tight on cap simply due to the McCoy trade is wrong.

[Deranged Rhino]

I think it is wrong to put the situation on Shady's contract alone. TT was a huge unknown coming into the season and the Bills put a bet on the possibility of a strong running attack. So they signed the player they wanted.

 

Here are the likely solutions:

 

Mario Williams is the obvious cut

While I hate the thought of it and it flies in the face of the recently granted extension Kyle Williams could go. I think this is a 50/50

Like the above relative to contract - Aaron Williams could be on the bubble given his injury history - I think this move is likely

Enough on the Williams brothers

 

Urbick is as good as gone

Boobie is gone

No way do the Bills re-up Percy Harvin

The coaches love affair with China doll Marquis Goodwin is over

McLuvin us probably granted his generous offer to move to safety and is granted a pay cut

 

Outside of Mario none of the above are big hitters. However, to say the Bills are tight on cap simply due to the McCoy trade is wrong.

 

Though I too hope you're wrong about Kyle. I don't want him to go anywhere, and frankly will be majorly disappointed if he's a cap casualty.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

 

No it's not. The point is to get rid of their HUGE contracts and draft players that will fill their role which would cost a lot less.

 

You have no point. lol.

 

This is how successful teams are built. Build through the draft and keep the cost of the team manageable.

 

U don't think we can replace Mario's 5 sacks for less than 19 million? lol

 

Doug Whaley's roster construction is the worst example of that. This team is not built through the draft and keeping the cap manageable. Doug Whaley is fighting for his job.

 

The Bills are not Green Bay and if you expect them to do what you say, are you going to B word and complain when they don't make the playoffs again next year? Because I won't.

Edited January 4, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever

[dpberr]

Wouldn't completely shock me if the Bills flip McCoy on draft day if the deal is right.

Edited January 4, 2016 by dpberr

[26CornerBlitz]

Wouldn't completely shock me if the Bills flip McCoy on draft day if the deal is right.

 

Not happening!

[QuoteTheRaven83]

 

Doug Whaley's roster construction is the worst example of that. This team is not built through the draft. Doug Whaley is fighting for his job.

 

The Bills are not Green Bay and if you expect them to do what you say, are you going to B word and complain when they don't make the playoffs again next year? Because I won't.

 

OK time to start looking forward and how to fix the salary cap issue. Cut the guys I mentioned. They won't be missed.

 

Again, you have no point.

 

Why would I btch and complain about missing the playoffs next year? I'm already expecting a 6-10 season. lol.

 

U obviously haven't read any of my posts in the past. I never expect much from this team.

[John from Riverside]

 

Yes. Which only furthers the points that have been made:

 

1. Extending McCoy to a top-market deal when he had 3 years remaining was a boneheaded front office move. Bills had all the leverage here and he could have played with his current deal as-is.

 

2. Productive RBs can be found without expending significant resources. Karlos was a 5th rounder, Gillislee was signed off the street midseason.

OK......

 

While I do agree that RB's are easier to find then other positions a couple of points

 

- Karlos s a beast......who was injured twice and has concussion issues....I LOVE the guy but he will never be the every down back that we grind away with nonstop because of the concussion issues.

- We went through 3 different running backs before we got to Gilaslee (that is not counting Boobie who is NOT a viable running back)....2 UFA's and Boom Herron.......we didnt just plug and play running backs...it took us a while to get to Shady/K. Williams/Gillislee

 

We are gonna have free agent money....but Whaley already went on record as saying that we would not be heavy into free agency this year because of the bonus money put out this past year.......it will be about resigning our own.....some "b" list free agents.....and continuing to draft well.

 

Now

 

This plan might have changed as our linebackers were SO BAD this past year........I think we keep Lawson.....lose Bradham......and we need 2 more quality linebackers so that we can move Preston out of that MLB spot

 

its not as dire as one player like Shady is gonna make the difference.

[Pirate Angel]

Tyrod played well enough to merit a hold out. He could easily cause more issues with the cap.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

I know we're all supposed to hate Mike Rodak, but I think this piece is helpful for Bills fans...it also indirectly brings the dubious nature of McCoy's contract back up for discussion I know that's been done to death, but the article shows why in better detail:

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23161/answering-key-bills-2016-free-agency-and-salary-cap-questions

 

I agree with most here that on a player-for-player basis, the trade worked (unless someone can convince me that Kiko would have lit it up here this year- I haven't seen anyone make that point). But the generous extension was unnecessary and ties our hands going forward. they basically overpaid McCoy to get him to report. Now we have a problem.

 

The left side of our OL is going to get a big raise one way or the other. If/when we cut Mario, we probably have enough money to keep them, but not much more. McCoy's big cap number is a problem.

 

If everyone can put their torches and pitchforks down long enough to accept that the defense could improve with a few new pieces, you could have some hope for next year- only now our options are limited due to cap restraints.

 

Whaley's getting a chance to sort this out, but he must use better judgment going forward.

 

We also need a HELL of a draft to fill some of these holes. This past year looks like Whaley's best so far, he'll need to prove it wasn't a fluke.

 

I still think we're positioned to be BETTER next year, but the biggest obstacle is not Rex, it's our tight cap situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On another site they point out the top 10 rushers in the NFL, the average cap hit of all 10 was 3.95 million. LeSean McCoy's cap hit 7.7 million.

[Chuck Schick]

We are going to get pinched, sure. But I don't think the logic was that bad. McCoy was brought in to do exactly what ended up happening: give us a legit running game. The national media is actually heaping praise on our o-line, even though we all know that's questionable at best. If McCoy were to have held out or sat because of phantom injuries, I don't think our running game would have amounted to a thing, plus Tyrod would have gotten teed up even more. By not extending him, this would have been a real possibility.

I think that money was well-spent.

[CodeMonkey]

 

Not happening!

 

 

 

On another site they point out the top 10 rushers in the NFL, the average cap hit of all 10 was 3.95 million. LeSean McCoy's cap hit 7.7 million.

What makes you say that 26CB? Gillislee, though not as explosive as Shady, did impress this season. Is McCoy's cap hit worth twice the average of the top 10 RBs? If I'm Whaley and someone approaches me with a good offer and willing to assume the Shady contract, I'm all ears.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

 

 

What makes you say that 26CB? Gillislee, though not as explosive as Shady, did impress this season. Is McCoy's cap hit worth twice the average of the top 10 RBs? If I'm Whaley and someone approaches me with a good offer and willing to assume the Shady contract, I'm all ears.

 

Adrian peterson really skews that number too. I think there was only 1 other back (Gore) that made more than 4 million on that list of leading rushers for 2015.

[Santana]

 

 

What makes you say that 26CB? Gillislee, though not as explosive as Shady, did impress this season. Is McCoy's cap hit worth twice the average of the top 10 RBs? If I'm Whaley and someone approaches me with a good offer and willing to assume the Shady contract, I'm all ears.

 

These are the highest paid RB's in the league right now.

 

Player Team TotalValue Avg./Year Total Guaranteed Avg.Guar./Year %Guaranteed Free Agency

 

Adrian Peterson Vikings $42,000,000 $14,000,000 $13,000,000 $4,333,333 31.0% 2018 UFA

 

Marshawn Lynch Seahawks $24,000,000 $12,000,000 $12,000,000 $6,000,000 50.0% 2018 UFA

 

Arian Foster Texans $43,500,000 $8,700,000 $20,750,000 $4,150,000 47.7% 2017 UFA

 

LeSean McCoy Bills $40,050,000 $8,010,000 $15,750,000 $3,150,000 39.3% 2020 UFA

 

DeMarco Murray Eagles $40,000,000 $8,000,000 $18,000,000 $3,600,000 45.0% 2020 UFA

 

Matt Forte Bears $30,400,000 $7,600,000 $13,800,000 $3,450,000 45.4% 2016 UFA

 

Jonathan Stewart Panthers $36,500,000 $7,300,000 $11,500,000 $2,300,000 31.5% 2018 Void

 

Jamaal Charles Chiefs $27,750,000 $6,937,500 $3,950,000 $987,500 14.2% 2018 UFA

 

Shane Vereen Giants $12,350,000 $4,116,667 $4,750,000 $1,583,333 38.5% 2018 UFA

 

Frank Gore Colts $12,000,000 $4,000,000 $6,500,000 $2,166,667 54.2% 2018 UFA

 

CJ Spiller Saints $16,000,000 $4,000,000 $5,750,000 $1,437,500 35.9% 2019 UFA

 

Mark Ingram Saints $16,000,000 $4,000,000 $6,100,000 $1,525,000 38.1% 2019 UFA

 

Ryan Mathews Eagles $11,000,000 $3,666,667 $5,000,000 $1,666,667 45.5% 2018 UFA

Edited January 4, 2016 by Lincoln Osiris

[Max997]

The Bills gave McCoy an extension to lower his cap number not to get him to report. I don't know where you got that incorrect information from.

 

I never get the panic some fans work themselves into about salary cap space or lack of it. Player salaries are not hard numbers so they can always be lowered to create room under the cap. Players can also be cut to create room as well. Mario, McKelvin, Urbik, and Carpenter will be cut creating about 15 mil in space and the contract Clay signed was structured with the intent of redoing it this offseason which will prob create another 5 mil at least.

 

Whaley also said last offseason that the Bills wouldn't be very active in free agency this year so the Bills cap situation really isn't an issue.

 

Glenn is the priority but if they are able to resign him or not won't have anything to do with the Bills cap. Incognito will need to be resigned but he won't get a huge deal.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Max997

[nucci]

Tyrod played well enough to merit a hold out. He could easily cause more issues with the cap.

It would cost him a lot of money

[John from Riverside]

It would cost him a lot of money

I honestly do NOT think this will happen.

 

He is getting his real chance in Buffalo.......and if he can improve on this years numbers could get a serious contract next year.

 

The best thing would be to give him a "bridge" contract

[HT02]

I know we're all supposed to hate Mike Rodak, but I think this piece is helpful for Bills fans...it also indirectly brings the dubious nature of McCoy's contract back up for discussion I know that's been done to death, but the article shows why in better detail:

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/23161/answering-key-bills-2016-free-agency-and-salary-cap-questions

 

I agree with most here that on a player-for-player basis, the trade worked (unless someone can convince me that Kiko would have lit it up here this year- I haven't seen anyone make that point). But the generous extension was unnecessary and ties our hands going forward. they basically overpaid McCoy to get him to report. Now we have a problem.

 

The left side of our OL is going to get a big raise one way or the other. If/when we cut Mario, we probably have enough money to keep them, but not much more. McCoy's big cap number is a problem.

 

If everyone can put their torches and pitchforks down long enough to accept that the defense could improve with a few new pieces, you could have some hope for next year- only now our options are limited due to cap restraints.

 

Whaley's getting a chance to sort this out, but he must use better judgment going forward.

 

 

We also need a HELL of a draft to fill some of these holes. This past year looks like Whaley's best so far, he'll need to prove it wasn't a fluke.

 

I still think we're positioned to be BETTER next year, but the biggest obstacle is not Rex, it's our tight cap situation.

 

I agree with you McCoy is a nice back but I think it's been proved over and over again that rb's are largely interchangeable in this league and he isn't going to get any better next year or going forward.

[elroy16]

The Bills gave McCoy an extension to lower his cap number not to get him to report. I don't know where you got that incorrect information from.

 

I never get the panic some fans work themselves into about salary cap space or lack of it. Player salaries are not hard numbers so they can always be lowered to create room under the cap. Players can also be cut to create room as well. Mario, McKelvin, Urbik, and Carpenter will be cut creating about 15 mil in space and the contract Clay signed was structured with the intent of redoing it this offseason which will prob create another 5 mil at least.

 

Whaley also said last offseason that the Bills wouldn't be very active in free agency this year so the Bills cap situation really isn't an issue.

 

Glenn is the priority but if they are able to resign him or not won't have anything to do with the Bills cap. Incognito will need to be resigned but he won't get a huge deal.

 

 

I completely agree with this.

 

 

Furthermore in regards to Shady, his cap hit is going to be ~$7.67 million next year. The cap is going to be around $150 million. McCoy is going to take up just over 5% of the salary cap, that's not enough to complain about.

Edited January 4, 2016 by elroy16

[billsfan_34]

 

 

Because McCoy was injured.

All year long McCoy and Williams couldnt stay on the field- this is a problem.

 

 

I completely agree with this post

 

 

Furthermore in regards to Shady, his cap hit is going to be ~$7.67 million next year. The cap is going to be around $150 million. McCoy is going to take up just over 5% of the salary cap, that's not enough to complain about.

147-153 mil cap estimate for 2016 so 150 sounds about right.

Edited January 4, 2016 by billsfan_34

[Deranged Rhino]

All year long McCoy and Williams couldnt stay on the field- this is a problem.

 

147-153 mil cap estimate for 2016 so 150 sounds about right.

 

143 million this year, it'll go up around 10 to 153 or more according to everything the NFL has said. That puts the Bills right under the limit without restructuring/cutting/trading anyone on the current roster. There's plenty of room and McCoy's deal will NOT be a hindrance towards the Bills signing or resigning anyone they want.

 

The plan has always been to focus on resigning our own this off season and there will be plenty of room to get that done with change left over to dip into the UFA waters. Just don't expect a big splashy signing... it may happen but the chances are remote.

[Buftex]

Cut Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Dan Carpenter, Leodis McKelvin, EJ Manuel, Cyrus Kouandjio, Marquis Goodwin and we should be in decent shape.

Nobody wants to hear this...but cutting EJ won't save them anything...there is good (financial) reason to keep him around for the last year of his deal. Unless they get Drew Brees, or somebody else becomes available, they probably won't do a lot better in finding a back-up for Tyrod next season. Just sayin....

 

Mario (it appears) will be gone, Goodwin almost definitely, and very likely on Carpentr...the rest? You gotta pay somebody to play those positions.

[Deranged Rhino]

Nobody wants to hear this...but cutting EJ won't save them anything...there is good (financial) reason to keep him around for the last year of his deal. Unless they get Drew Brees, or somebody else becomes available, they probably won't do a lot better in finding a back-up for Tyrod next season. Just sayin....

 

Mario (it appears) will be gone, Goodwin almost definitely, and very likely on Carpentr...the rest? You gotta pay somebody to play those positions.

 

You do have to pay, but you can get the same production we got out of Mario this year for 1/4th the cost. Carp might be gone, might stick around, who knows. They'll save 4 million jettisoning Leodis, add that to the 12 you're getting from Mario (and more from the expected restructuring of Clay's deal) and suddenly the Bills are in pretty good cap shape with just a handful of moves.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

You do have to pay, but you can get the same production we got out of Mario this year for 1/4th the cost. Carp might be gone, might stick around, who knows. They'll save 4 million jettisoning Leodis, add that to the 12 you're getting from Mario (and more from the expected restructuring of Clay's deal) and suddenly the Bills are in pretty good cap shape with just a handful of moves.

 

Sorry, youre wrong. All moves must be made today. As OP so clearly puts it: "NOW" is when McCoy's contract bites us. Whaley tried signing a number of players today, but we weren't allowed to sign any of them because of the cap situation right now. It will not change, and there is nothing we can do to make it better.

[Deranged Rhino]

Sorry, youre wrong. All moves must be made today. As OP so clearly puts it: "NOW" is when McCoy's contract bites us. Whaley tried signing a number of players today, but we weren't allowed to sign any of them because of the cap situation right now. It will not change, and there is nothing we can do to make it better.