What is happening on Defense?

[Uffalo Ills]

They need to go back to Wide 9. The priority of stopping the run seems a bit anachronistic in today's NFL. They're getting shredded by pass-first offenses.

100%. This is a pass first league. We cant expect to win by covering the one thing teams dont do.

[QCity]

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Great job. Ha.

[26CornerBlitz]

@JaySkurski

#Bills LB Preston Brown: "That was bad today. That was awful in the second half. ... I mean, we can't go out there and look like that."

[VADC Bills]

The worst defense we have had in 3 years. I'm not impressed by Thurman's scheme's. Rex is ultimately responsible. The defense has been paid based on their performance of past couple of years. If I am Pegula, I tell Rex to scheme similar to the years past or move on because it seems as though Pettine had a better understanding of integrating the scheme with the personnel better than Rex.. Rex has turned these guys into rich fat cats. There is no fire anymore. I haven't the consistent big plays like we had in the past.

Edited October 18, 2015 by VADC Bills

[hondo in seattle]

Maybe it's a matter of dismantling something to rebuild it.

 

But right now, it's hard not to miss Jim Schwartz. Our D look overwhelmed out there.

 

Rex ought to get the vets together and ask them: "Why were you more effective last year?"

[Fixxxer]

I have to think it's scheme based issues. I know we find ourselves unsure as to what responsibilities players have in a 3-4 vs a Rex Ryan 3-4, but in a traditional 3-4 your DT is a NT/anchor. Think Ted Washington. It's a role that is meant to consume as many blockers as possible. Then you have 2 very physical DE's, almost closer to what a conventional pass rushing 4-3 DT would be. The outside backers are your real pass rushers, but they have to be athletic enough to cover as they will drop into coverage. Ideally you wouldn't want your OLB's to essentially be converted DE's.

 

Can Dareus be an outstanding 3-4 NT? Sure, but he's a heck of a interior pass rusher and if you make him an NT you take that away. Can Mario be an OLB? Sure. He's incredibly athletic, but do you really want him to be dropping back into coverage? Same with Hughes. On the flip side, both Hughes and Mario are not ideal 3-4 DE's. Since we don't have a true 3-4 DE, why not move Kyle over. Can Kyle be a very good 3-4 DE? Sure, he has the qualities, but it's certainly not his natural position. A 4-3 defense is what this team is built around. Mario is a text book 4-3 DE. Hughes is a mix between a 4-3 End and a 3-4 OLB. Kyle and Dareus are dominating as 4-3 DT's. This whole player fit was my concern entering the season but I felt based on Pettine it wouldn't hurt us. Well, it seems to be hurting us.

 

Perhaps Rex brings twice the playbook, as most have commented, this defense does not seem to be playing right now. They seem to be stuck in assignment mode, often times not even knowing the assignment. Players need to play, not think. We have the wrong roster for the system and in the ways that it's functional, Rex has done a poor job putting players in position to be successful by what is being asked of them. The whole term "A Rex Ryan" defense. I just don't think Rex knows how to dumb it down so guys can just play. He has to have his urine all over it to fit the Bravado that is Rex Ryan. I would rather have a defense not named after it's coach, but named after it's players, with a coach that is putting his players in the best places to be successful at all times regardless if it lacks some sort coaching name brand. Who is responsible for the Legion of Boom? Pete Carroll. His name doesn't get attached to it like a Rex Ryan defense, but it's one of the best defensive runs in the last 15 years. It's named after the players and I really don't think a guy like Carroll cares what they call it or what he does. He just wants to win. Rex needs to stop peeing on stuff and let the talent on this team make him look good.

 

Excellent post KzooMike. Schwartz was smart enough to put his guys in position to make positive contributions to the defense. Rex Ryan is trying too hart do put his stamp on this defense that he's losing sight of what is best regarding the talent he has at hand.

[26CornerBlitz]

@viccarucci

Coming in my full #Bills-#Bengals analysis: D-line is clearly unhappy with the scheme. Mario Williams & Jerry Hughes voiced complaints.

We've heard Hughes, Kyle Williams & Marcell Dareus talk about adjusting to the new scheme. They are clearly more frustrated. #Bills

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Rex is what`s happening

[Bacchus44]

I agree with those that said that the Thurman/Ryan scheme has gotten "too cute". You would think that good coaches can change things up from week to week to counter what type of offense they are playing against, but it seems to me that they are playing the same way every week. While their scheme might seem to work against a younger QB, it isn't working against a good veteran QB. I assume that as other good offensive coaches see this, they might carbon copy their offense to play the same way.

 

In looking at their remaining schedule, they certainly have a chance to win against any of the teams - except the Pats and Cowboys (if Romo is back, obviously). Only problem is that as soon as we have to face a good QB in a playoff game (if we make it), we will see the exact same thing as we saw against NE, Cinci & the Giants. The good QB's will have our defense for lunch.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Sabesfan71

[offyourocker]

Maybe Rex should save his career as a head coach and call Schwartz to see if he would come be his DC

[hondo in seattle]

Watching today, I had to wonder how the team would be doing if Jim Schwartz had stayed at DC and we got someone like Hue Jackson as the head coach.

 

I had similar thoughts.

 

Or what if we had hired Greg Roman as HC and he retained Jim Schwartz?

[Fixxxer]

 

I had similar thoughts.

 

Or what if we had hired Greg Roman as HC and he retained Jim Schwartz?

 

Hue Jackson as HC/OC with Schwartz as DC.

[Big C]

 

Hue Jackson as HC/OC with Schwartz as DC.

 

I definitely liked the idea of going with Hue and Schwartz before Rex came along and got the job. I want to believe in Rex, but at this point he has to show us that he isn't too stubborn to make some changes.

[ScrewyLouie]

I've heard all sorts of rationalization for the regression but at what point do you say, ya...It's not as good as last years team.

 

The defense is playing 10th-15th rated football right now, no better, no worse. The 2013 squad rated 4th in Footballoutsiders.com DVOA, 2014 squad rated #2, the 2015 squad rates 10th, and will surely be falling to the 15 range after this game. I'm having a hard time with our defense regressing at the hands of a HC whose supposed to the best defensive mind in the business. It's hard for me to reconcile what that says about his coaching abilities?

 

The path to the playoffs was with the defense being elite. We have 100's of millions tied up into the DL with a couple of those guys likely approaching decline based on age vs the incline. This really looked to be our window defensively to be special and it's just not happening. Players aren't lining up right, they're struggling to communicate, the deep seams are wide open, we haven't solved for the short passing game, we have no game plan for above average TE's, and our pressure is marginal. Now we might have lost K. Williams?

 

How can't this reflect very poorly on Rex? It's his specialty and a regression from elite to average is enough to keep us out of the playoffs.

------------------------

 

I was telling everyone before the season started that Rex would ruin Schwartz's defense. People said i was nuts and Ryan would make them the best defense in the NFL. Well folks I would take Scwartz's defense that was ranked in the top five over Rex's so called best defense in the history of the NFL. LOL He's got them ranked in the bottom half of the league. Rex came to Buffalo and fed the kool aid to the local yokals. They swallowed hook, line and sinker! Who said Buffalo fans were the dumbest in the NFL? Yeah Jets fans tried to warn the bozos but they were too drunk on the kool aid.

SIXTEEN YEARS IN A ROW!! WOW!

Edited October 18, 2015 by ScrewyLouie

[Georgia Bill]

Maybe it's a matter of dismantling something to rebuild it.

 

But right now, it's hard not to miss Jim Schwartz. Our D look overwhelmed out there.

 

Rex ought to get the vets together and ask them: "Why were you more effective last year?"

He ought to, but he won't. I think his ego is big enough that he wants to prove how great "his" defense is. As many others have said, we need to get rid of the thick playbook, moving everybody around to "confuse" the offense. Seems we're only confusing ourselves. When Mario Williams starts talking about how often he's asked to drop into coverage, you ought to have an inkling that there's a problem. I mean seriously, pass coverage - that's the best way to use him? I'm seriously missing the Schwartz

Edited October 18, 2015 by Georgia Bill

[26CornerBlitz]

@AlbertBreer

Bills DE Mario Williams sounds off on defensive line's struggles, and their frustration with Rex's scheme: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000560221/article/mario-williams-sounds-off-on-bills-defensive-scheme

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- The Bills are 3-3. And in the AFC, that leaves their season very much alive and well.

 

But for the second time this year, Rex Ryan's defense allowed an offense to come into Ralph Wilson Stadium, seize control of the pace and tenor of game, and break 30 points on the vaunted group. Worse yet, it's the quarterbacks in question -- Tom Brady and Andy Dalton -- who've been in command when faced with a defensive line comprised of a quartet of accomplished and handsomely-paid pass rushers.

 

That hasn't been lost on Mario Williams.

[MichFan]

I'm left to wonder, will TPegs let the Bills go the way of the Sabres, or did he learn and will he ensure adjustments get made immediately. I never liked letting Schwartz go, he had his finger on the pulse of this defense. Ryan has proven he is unable to get production out of them and now one of the best players is openly questioning his calls. The season hangs in the balance and it's only week 6.

[Fixxxer]

 

I definitely liked the idea of going with Hue and Schwartz before Rex came along and got the job. I want to believe in Rex, but at this point he has to show us that he isn't too stubborn to make some changes.

 

Me too and I agree, I don't see him changing his stripes. How many times did we hear him say he's not going to change who he is?

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisTrapasso

Summary on #Bills D: may be overscheming (which is mainly diff btwn Rex/Schwrtz) but QB throwing in 1.8-2.2 secs will negate *any* pass-rush

[Big C]

 

Me too and I agree, I don't see him changing his stripes. How many times did we hear him say he's not going to change who he is?

 

Yeah. It's crazy to me that he can rave about how good the DL is and then have them drop into coverage all the time. All four of those guys should be rushing the passer, every time. You put crazy schemes into place to mask lack of physical talent. When your roster is stacked you just play good football.

[ScrewyLouie]

1. There weren't too many of us but I know I wasn't the only one who hated the Rex Ryan hiring. There were a few others who agreed with me. I wanted an offensive guy, (Josh McDaniels), since we already had the greatest defensive coordinator in Bills history. I figured if we got an offensive head coach he would agree to keep Scwartz to run his defense. Josh McDaniels was voted the BEST offensive coordinator in the NFL. I was imagining a Brady type offense, (obviously not quite as good as New Englands) with Schwartz's dominant top 5 defense. Josh McDaniels must have learned a ton from Old Billy in all the years they worked together. Most people that know me know what I think of Belichick. He's God's son who came down to coach the Patriots. He does wear a clever disguise, it makes him look like a regular human being. I think it's the hood that makes him look ordinary.

Edited October 18, 2015 by ScrewyLouie

[The Frankish Reich]

There weren't too many of us but I know I wasn't the only one who hated the Rex Ryan hiring. There were a few others who agreed with me.

I wanted an offensive guy, (Josh McDaniels), since we already had the greatest defensive coordinator in Bills history. I figured if we got an offensive head coach he would agree to keep Scwartz to run his defense. Josh McDaniels was voted the BEST offensive coordinator in the NFL. I was imagining a Brady type offense, (obviously not quite as good as New Englands) with Schwartz's dominant top 5 defense. Josh McDaniels must have learned a ton from Old Billy in all the years they worked together.

But Josh was a young jackass ... he never would've painted his pickup in Bills colors. I'm sure he doesn't even have a pickup. Probably drives a Prius or something. That's why we needed an aging gastric bypassed cheerleader and foot fetishist!

Edited October 18, 2015 by The Frankish Reich

[Big Turk]

Ryan said after the game they would be looking at what they are doing and are open to making changes...its obvious what they are doing isn't working

[26CornerBlitz]

Rex: Our DL didn’t get enough chances at Dalton

Bills head coach Rex Ryan knew that Andy Dalton takes some long drops than some of the other quarterbacks Buffalo has faced this season. It should have spelled greater opportunities for Buffalo’s defensive linemen to get some heat on the Cincinnati QB and some sacks. But Buffalo’s sideline boss admitted he didn’t dial up enough opportunities for his big men up front.

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Anybody really think this problem is something new. It is just a mediocre coach trying to fit the players into HIS scheme. The great coach's down through the years have adapted to the strengths of their players. Belichick is always adapting. Don Shula didn't have Dan Marino run the same attack he had run before. Why? his team couldn't and he used what was the teams strength.

[NoSaint]

Is Thurman calling the plays or Rex?

[Utah John]

I am coming to the conclusion that Rex is running on reputation as a defensive genius. Could it be that Pettine was really the mastermind of the Jets D? The Bills did great with him as DC. They also did great with Jim Schwartz. Ryan, and Thurman, seem to have taken a great defense and made it average. They have a scheme that appears easy to figure out, and they don't make effective adjustments. Brady showed the league how to beat the Bills, and even though there's only one Brady, there are other excellent QBs, and they're all doing the same things.

 

The pass rush QUIT. I saw several plays today when the Bills front four did the standard push they always do, then Dalton broke out of the pocket, and there was almost no pursuit. I'm afraid the D is quitting on their coach.

[Mikie2times]

100%. This is a pass first league. We cant expect to win by covering the one thing teams dont do.

 

 

They need to go back to Wide 9. The priority of stopping the run seems a bit anachronistic in today's NFL. They're getting shredded by pass-first offenses.

 

I agree this is a big part of it. This is a run stop first defense in a league that barely even cares if you take the run away. Take last years Green Bay game for example. We allowed 158 yards rushing for 6.3 yards per carry. Green Bay had it's way on the ground. Buffalo didn't care. They left 7 to defend passing lanes the whole game basically letting the DL abandon gap responsibility and sell out rushing the passer. It led to probably the worst day of Rogers career. We begged GB to beat us with the run and like most QB oriented teams, they just wouldn't stay with it. The DL looks like it has rarely been positioned to just free lance and is stuck playing assignment football. I understand fundamentally that is the way you play defense, but as a franchise if you decide to unbalance the pocket book to the extent we did on the DL, let them do what they do. Which is rush the passer, not play assignment football. I'm not a quick reactor to one game, but I'm very concerned we now find ourselves stuck with a HC that is going to waste the obscene talent we have on the DL over scheming. If you want to find the source of the perceived rift between Whaley and Rex, I would have to think it's how our DL is being utilized. Rex is also in for a rude awakening with his "Let players be players" approach. The heat on the DL's lack of productivity is turning up. The more it turns up, the more Mario has to answer why he isn't doing anything, like the rest, the more we will hear about the DL not being happy in this system.

[dpberr]

This defense sucks.

 

See quarterback...get quarterback is the only scheme the front four need.

 

But...suppose that's not cute enough of a scheme for Ryan and Co.

[SWATeam]

@MatthewFairburn

Mario Williams doesn't seem too enthused with his role in Rex Ryan's defense. Said he might have set a record for dropping in coverage today

Mario said he probably set a personal record for dropping into coverage ... didn't say he's "unhappy" with role but sure sounded like it

Yeah, let's drop Mario into coverage. Idiots

[dayman]

Defense not being used as designed. Offense hurt.

[Best Player Available]

Yeah, let's drop Mario into coverage. Idiots

To be fair, he's a better choice than Kyle who has also been there.

Is Ryan constulting with the stache on how to destroy a defense?

[26CornerBlitz]

@TyDunne

Bradham also noted there's still communication problems on #Bills D. Sounds like guys in secondary weren't in the right call at times.

[NoSaint]

@TyDunne

Bradham also noted there's still communication problems on #Bills D. Sounds like guys in secondary weren't in the right call at times.

Several times there were major changes after lining up because guys were in total wrong spots. See the cartwheel touchdown.

[Boatdrinks]

There are probably some scheme things that can be changed but some of this is just regression to the mean. What is the Bills D going to do, set a new sack record every year? Teams ( and coaches) are going to try and take that strength away. The good QBs they have faced were largely able to do that. And let's forget the Belichick references about players & schemes. He's run the same D in NE for years and drafts players that can do what he wants. He's not a new HC of a new team that inherited a roster . Fancy explanations are fine but sometimes it's just little things. Why is Seattles D blowing games? They have all their same guys back, no? Sometimes players just aren't playing as well or are just getting beat.

[machine gun kelly]

Rex has to give up his ego and go back to the wide 9. It worked and they all know it. We have the players for it, and it was the 4th best defense. Once we get McKelvin, and Aaron Williams back after the bye, we should improve.

 

They won't be on the field the entire game when we hopefully get everyone back on offense after the bye. We may have to win ugly next week, but we can beat the Jags. I've seen a couple of their games, and very beatable.

[26CornerBlitz]

Several times there were major changes after lining up because guys were in total wrong spots. See the cartwheel touchdown.

 

They had only 10 men on the field that made a timeout necessary when the Bengals had a trips right formation. Lining up Rambo on Eifert is not smart.....TD! I called that as soon as I noticed.

Edited October 19, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz

[Nihilarian]

Mario Williams stated after the game that he probably set a record by dropping into pass coverage.

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/182076-mario-williams-talks/

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

There are probably some scheme things that can be changed but some of this is just regression to the mean. What is the Bills D going to do, set a new sack record every year? Teams ( and coaches) are going to try and take that strength away. The good QBs they have faced were largely able to do that. And let's forget the Belichick references about players & schemes. He's run the same D in NE for years and drafts players that can do what he wants. He's not a new HC of a new team that inherited a roster . Fancy explanations are fine but sometimes it's just little things. Why is Seattles D blowing games? They have all their same guys back, no? Sometimes players just aren't playing as well or are just getting beat.

Big regression. On pace for 24 sacks. LOL