Turbosrrgood Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Don't be fooled by his 5 TD, no int, 300 + yard night against a good defense... It was apparently a miserable performance. PFF has graded him a -.8 for that game. The facts have spoken. Yes, I spelled his name wrong. Edited September 29, 2015 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 PFF is becoming a laughing stock the more of these things I see from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Don't be fooled by his 5 TD, no int, 300 + yard night against a good defense... It was apparently a miserable performance. PFF has graded him a -.8 for that game. The facts have spoken. Gotta love the amateurish effort to grade a great QB performance by an Anal-ytics head. Edited September 29, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ian Rapoport @RapSheet In a result obvious for everyone who watched #Packers QB Aaron Rodgers last night, he scored a -2.3 rating from @PFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/29/why-aaron-rodgers-earned-a-slightly-negative-grade/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I heard they also had Suh rated as one of the top 3 DT in the league for every game so far this season CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 "Context is crucial with everything in football, and if you believe we are saying that Rodgers had a poor game last night because his grade has a minus in front of it, then let me set your mind at ease; I do not think Rodgers played a poor, subpar game last night and neither does anybody else at Pro Football Focus. Rodgers did his job last night, but his job was executing simple throws, putting the ball quickly in the hands of receivers like Randall Cobb in favorable matchups on short throws, and allowing others to do the heavy lifting. But for a couple of poor plays, his overall grade would have matched the sort of grade that you would be expecting to see from him, but those poor plays, coupled with the relative ease of some of his scores mean his performance last night was far closer to average than it was to the fantastic performance the box score suggests. The context surrounding his grade is crucial. The greatness of Rodgers’ performance last night was in the intangibles. Recognizing the blitz, drawing the defense offsides, catching the Chiefs in bad situations and exploiting those scenarios with simple passes to open receivers. But you cannot — and we do not try to — quantify intangibles, or what comes pre-snap. Our system grades what can be graded — the execution of the play post-snap — and in that regard Rodgers did not stand out in the same way that his statistics did." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 "Context is crucial with everything in football, and if you believe we are saying that Rodgers had a poor game last night because his grade has a minus in front of it, then let me set your mind at ease; I do not think Rodgers played a poor, subpar game last night and neither does anybody else at Pro Football Focus. Rodgers did his job last night, but his job was executing simple throws, putting the ball quickly in the hands of receivers like Randall Cobb in favorable matchups on short throws, and allowing others to do the heavy lifting. But for a couple of poor plays, his overall grade would have matched the sort of grade that you would be expecting to see from him, but those poor plays, coupled with the relative ease of some of his scores mean his performance last night was far closer to average than it was to the fantastic performance the box score suggests. The context surrounding his grade is crucial. The greatness of Rodgers’ performance last night was in the intangibles. Recognizing the blitz, drawing the defense offsides, catching the Chiefs in bad situations and exploiting those scenarios with simple passes to open receivers. But you cannot — and we do not try to — quantify intangibles, or what comes pre-snap. Our system grades what can be graded — the execution of the play post-snap — and in that regard Rodgers did not stand out in the same way that his statistics did." To cut to the chase, they should just say "Our grading system sucks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/29/why-aaron-rodgers-earned-a-slightly-negative-grade/ Haha they point to the fumble, which was overturned by a penalty, as a negative play. They have no idea what they are doing, that play doesn't even show up on the official stats because it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 To cut to the chase, they should just say "Our grading system sucks!" Right? If your grading system produces a negative result for a 5 TD, 0 INT, 300-yard performance in a convincing win, and requires that you issue a boatload of disclaimers to both (a) justify the grade, and (b) point out that the negative grade doesn't mean he played poorly, then your grading system is faulty at its core. Haha they point to the fumble, which was overturned by a penalty, as a negative play. They have no idea what they are doing, that play doesn't even show up on the official stats because it never happened. They brought Collinsworth in as part owner to lend some credibility to their brand...this type of stuff is going to make that task that much harder. They should stick to collecting raw data; they're actually good at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 PFF is becoming a laughing stock the more of these things I see from them. PFF = pffff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with the pff grading method in theory. I didn't watch most of the game yesterday so I can't speak to the grade on rodgers but it is technically feasible to play average or even bad and have a big day stats-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with the pff grading method in theory. I didn't watch most of the game yesterday so I can't speak to the grade on rodgers but it is technically feasible to play average or even bad and have a big day stats-wise. Rodgers was masterful with execution and improvisation in carving up KC. The grade is pure nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 PFF = pfffft Fixed that for ya. Needed the 't' to complete the fart sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I agree with the pff grading method in theory. I didn't watch most of the game yesterday so I can't speak to the grade on rodgers but it is technically feasible to play average or even bad and have a big day stats-wise. It's possible to play poorly and put up good numbers, yes. It's not, however, possible to have a dominant statistical day, on which a player accounts for all 5 of his team's TDs, does not turn the ball over, and eclipses 300 yards, all in a comfortable win against a top-5 pass defense (over the last 3 years) and play even average football. Rodgers played to his usual fantastic standard yesterday. This grade is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's possible to play poorly and put up good numbers, yes. It's not, however, possible to have a dominant statistical day, on which a player accounts for all 5 of his team's TDs, does not turn the ball over, and eclipses 300 yards, all in a comfortable win against a top-5 pass defense (over the last 3 years) and play even average football. Rodgers played to his usual fantastic standard yesterday. This grade is nonsense. technically, you're wrong...it is possible, but i'm assuming that wasn't the case yesterday obviously a crazy hypothetical scenario, but say a guy goes 5/9, and all 5 completions are screen passes that go 70 yards each for touchdowns, and he throws another 4 horrible balls that are dropped by the defenders...would you say he had a great game? again, an absurd example of course, but the reasoning PFF gives for their grading system makes sense from seeing some highlights, it was his timing and accuracy that was incredible last night, not necessarily the degree of difficulty of the throws and him dropping them into tight windows, which i believe is what PFF measures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 technically, you're wrong...it is possible, but i'm assuming that wasn't the case yesterday obviously a crazy hypothetical scenario, but say a guy goes 5/9, and all 5 completions are screen passes that go 70 yards each for touchdowns, and he throws another 4 horrible balls that are dropped by the defenders...would you say he had a great game? again, an absurd example of course, but the reasoning PFF gives for their grading system makes sense from seeing some highlights, it was his timing and accuracy that was incredible last night, not necessarily the degree of difficulty of the throws and him dropping them into tight windows, which i believe is what PFF measures Uh, they also gave him a negative mark for a play that technically didn't happen. The play was negated by a penalty but they graded him on it anyways. That's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) I'm giving Clayton Kershaw's three hit, complete game shutout with 11 Ks, a negative 2.3 because his catcher framed well, his defense made some great plays and he had a wild pitch. Time to throw out the model with the bathwater Edited September 29, 2015 by The Thurmanator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Didn't PFF give suh a very high score against the bills? The guy seemed invisible to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Didn't PFF give suh a very high score against the bills? The guy seemed invisible to me I think it was Bill James who said, " any result that is always surprising, is probably wrong!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 technically, you're wrong...it is possible, but i'm assuming that wasn't the case yesterday obviously a crazy hypothetical scenario, but say a guy goes 5/9, and all 5 completions are screen passes that go 70 yards each for touchdowns, and he throws another 4 horrible balls that are dropped by the defenders...would you say he had a great game? again, an absurd example of course, but the reasoning PFF gives for their grading system makes sense from seeing some highlights, it was his timing and accuracy that was incredible last night, not necessarily the degree of difficulty of the throws and him dropping them into tight windows, which i believe is what PFF measures So it's like style points and the degree of difficulty that's important to them. They should take up judging Olympic diving and gymnastics then. You know - sports that don't have actual scores but just opinions of the judges that determine the winners. The NFL already has a group that fulfills that role. They're called the game officials. They have to wear stripes because they should be in jail. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Green Bay would be lucky if somebody threw them a fifth round pick for A. A. Ron. Can we still get Skelton for Mario, then flip Skelton straight up for Rodgers? Or is that giving up too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Green Bay would be lucky if somebody threw them a fifth round pick for A. A. Ron. Can we still get Skelton for Mario, then flip Skelton straight up for Rodgers? Or is that giving up too much? We're better off offering them Duke Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 @AlbertBreer A wise man (@RonBorges) once told me that statistics are like hostages. You can make them say whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 from seeing some highlights, it was his timing and accuracy that was incredible last night, not necessarily the degree of difficulty of the throws and him dropping them into tight windows, which i believe is what PFF measures Degree of difficulty? How the hell would they know? Isn't being able to find "easy throws" a good thing? I believe that's called, reading defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 i agree with that backup. aaron rodgers is as good as michael jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'd love to hear the analytics lovers over at WGR discussing this today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Degree of difficulty? How the hell would they know? Isn't being able to find "easy throws" a good thing? I believe that's called, reading defenses. That's kind of the point. They don't assume to grade pre-snap adjustments as that is just about impossible to quantify. And for a good QB, the better he is at that part of the game, the easier the throw should be after the snap. Which is exactly what they state in clear print above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Don't be fooled by his 5 TD, no int, 300 + yard night against a good defense... It was apparently a miserable performance. PFF has graded him a -.8 for that game. The facts have spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'd love to hear the analytics lovers over at WGR discussing this today you are conflating two disassociated entities. this doesn't mean there is an problem with football analytics as a field (and thereby, "the analytics lovers over at WGR") - it just mean's there's an issue with PFF's analytics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Didn't PFF give suh a very high score against the bills? The guy seemed invisible to me He busted up a few plays but yeah he wasn't hugely disruptive. Suh should have had a grade fairly neutral or small positive grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 To cut to the chase, they should just say "Our grading system sucks!" This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) That's kind of the point. They don't assume to grade pre-snap adjustments as that is just about impossible to quantify. And for a good QB, the better he is at that part of the game, the easier the throw should be after the snap. Which is exactly what they state in clear print above. Right, so a good QB in their model gets zero points for making good reads that allow him to make "easy throws" because he's just expected to do that? And again, they say they don't measure intangibles like pre-snap reads but are assigning a degree difficulty to a throw none of these "analysts" have ever made. It's a bunch of "yea that looked like a simple, easy throw", so that's zero points. Yet a bad QB making that same throw receives a positive grade? What sense does that make? Surely the fact that not every QB can make the "easy throws" should result in a positive for all QBs but I guess that would make it too easy. Edited September 29, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Gotta love the amateurish effort to grade a great QB performance by an Anal-ytics head. Maybe Rodak's stepfather does the analytics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 PFF are teenagers that only listen to "underground" music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 you are conflating two disassociated entities. this doesn't mean there is an problem with football analytics as a field (and thereby, "the analytics lovers over at WGR") - it just mean's there's an issue with PFF's analytics. There isn't a problem with football analytics as a field. There is a problem with some people, WGR included IMO, that think they are the be all end all. Like they said in their response, there are things (many in my opinion) that are nearly impossible to quantify. Analytics are a piece of the puzzle, not the whole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 He busted up a few plays but yeah he wasn't hugely disruptive. Suh should have had a grade fairly neutral or small positive grade. Ya I agree, I think I remember him making a couple plays but definitely didn't have a great impact on the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) PFF makes some valid points in defense of their grade. But still... By their own admission, Rodgers made two beautiful throws for TDs. But somehow, two bad plays (one of which, never officially happened) offset those two good TD passes. Their weighting system seems broken. And while they rated many of Rodgers' completions as easy, there's something to be said for a QB who can read coverages, correctly identify mismatches, and get the ball to playmakers while making it look easy. Hasn't Brady's recent career been about just this? Rodgers did his job very well. If PFF thinks his performance warrants a negative score, PFF needs to rework its scoring system. I don't think GB's coaching staff is going to tell Aaron he had a subpar day. Edited September 29, 2015 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Didn't they give TT a grade of 0.3 this week or something when he made no big mistakes and a ton of strong plays as well as results as well as stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Don't be fooled by his 5 TD, no int, 300 + yard night against a good defense... It was apparently a miserable performance. PFF has graded him a -.8 for that game. The facts have spoken. Yes, I spelled his name wrong. Its could only have been a -.8 on the Aaron Rodgers scale. In other words slightly below average FOR HIM. Peyton came in at a -25 and Colin kaep was -2,446,544 in this point system. Edited September 29, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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