Kelly the Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 as opposed to the very limited scope of domestic violence?Assigning penalties in game limits in advance just doesn't seem to work. Besides, we were talking about your suggestion of what happens during an investigation after the crime, not the crime itself. To me, the Commish should be allowed to rule and punish as he or she sees fit. The player and union can appeal if they wish based on whether or not the punishment fit the crime and go to an arbitrator. That may or may not be the Commish but that is what they agreed to. The arbitrator should then rule on whether the Commish had power to do what he did and whether or not all things were fair. The appeal of that ruling should not tell the Commish that because no one committed this particular crime yet and then reacted in an unprecedented way to that investigation that the Commish shouldn't have been able to handle that punishment because he didn't make it clear beforehand. If they changed the rules like they did in other cases then by all means the judge should throw it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Watching ESPN....very interesting. They are strongly suggesting Greg Hardy will file an appeal of his 4 game suspension. The 90 day deadline to file an appeal on that suspension is tomorrow. What say you Dareus? Everybody disciplined by the league should. Berman's decision renders every disciplinary action by Goodell moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 This is the court that the league ran to after its initial ruling on Brady. The judge and the court had a history of favorable arbitration and business rulings. Roger Goodell got rebuked by a court that he and his legal advisers selected Yup. Another obvious mistake at least in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Assigning penalties in game limits in advance just doesn't seem to work. Besides, we were talking about your suggestion of what happens during an investigation after the crime, not the crime itself. To me, the Commish should be allowed to rule and punish as he or she sees fit. The player and union can appeal if they wish based on whether or not the punishment fit the crime and go to an arbitrator. That may or may not be the Commish but that is what they agreed to. The arbitrator should then rule on whether the Commish had power to do what he did and whether or not all things were fair. The appeal of that ruling should not tell the Commish that because no one committed this particular crime yet and then reacted in an unprecedented way to that investigation that the Commish shouldn't have been able to handle that punishment because he didn't make it clear beforehand. If they changed the rules like they did in other cases then by all means the judge should throw it out. i just added to my previous post: you could leave the exact length off, or vague but defining that it hasnt been suspended EVER but will be going forward is an important piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 All the annoying Pat fans will declare victory now. But this is just a judge saying the NFL can't enforce discipline when there are areas that are not black and white. Not good for stopping cheaters like the Patriots. Their destruction of evidence and obstruction of the investigation worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 a botched sting operation to nab one team when goodell should have known this was a common practice and sent notice to ALL 32 teams to stop. nfl did not use an "independent" investigator. brady was denied discovery info. no actual proof tom brady knew. never had those two equip clowns testify under oath. exceeded the CBA established fine of $25,000 for under inflated balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Did the league ever actually compare this to a PED suspension when they went with the 4 game figure? That whole portion of the ruling seems so strange to me (unless the NFL did make that comparison). It almost feels like saying that they can't use that game count for any other type of suspension since it is already reserved for PEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It's all good. At least he can't cheat anymore. The only thing deflating on Sunday will be his passer rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Did the league ever actually compare this to a PED suspension when they went with the 4 game figure? That whole portion of the ruling seems so strange to me (unless the NFL did make that comparison). It almost feels like saying that they can't use that game count for any other type of suspension since it is already reserved for PEDs. Yes, Goodell compared it to the first offense for a banned substance that the League has yet to determine gives players an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Everybody disciplined by the league should. Berman's decision renders every disciplinary action by Goodell moot. All I know is what I've heard in a few snippets so I could be wrong, but I thought the gist of the ruling was that the report only found that Brady was probably aware of misconduct and that the CBA doesn't provide for penalties for merely having general knowledge of misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Everybody disciplined by the league should. Berman's decision renders every disciplinary action by Goodell moot. I think you are correct Tom; there could be a line at the door very quickly. And correct me if I'm wrong, if an appeal is accepted, said player can play while his appeal is under review, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJuice Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 How many FN Brady Deflategate threads do we need? How many complaints do we need about new threads? Maybe that topic is new thread worthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Yes, Goodell compared it to the first offense for a banned substance that the League has yet to determine gives players an advantage. Fair enough. I didn't notice that as I skimmed the decision, probably because I skipped footnotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Fair enough. I didn't notice that as I skimmed the decision, probably because I skipped footnotes. It was specifically in one of the footnotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) The most important aspect of this "scandal"....if a lower PSI ball really does lead to less fumbles, is easier to throw and catch, etc., do the Buffalo Bills now have their balls inflated to the lowest possible PSI? They would be fools not to adopt that approach. Everything else is already in the books. Edited September 3, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I almost immediately thought of this game which I attended: http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=230907002 no asterisk for a game 2 win vs. NE (@ the Ralph no less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Brady needs to be tossed about like a rag doll. If we don't do it, I hope Suh stomps on him a few times. Not only would that provide me with satisfaction, it would also likely lead to a multiple game suspension for Suh. It's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It was specifically in one of the footnotes I had a feeling it was once you mentioned it. Even though I work in an industry where they are everywhere, I avoid them like the plague. Anyway, I do worry about the potential CBA issues and work stoppage that are going to result from this decision. It could get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm thinking the Bills are going to have to rethink their policy on handing out beer cans instead of cups for week 2. Could be some projectiles flying if the game doesn't go well. I'd hate to get hit in the head with one. And I sit kinda low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So now the CBA is not under control of the league or the PA that judges have the power to change or ignore whatever they want. I suggest that the Bills should violate the number of players on the rooster rule and keep as many as they want. What will the commish do, fine the team, suspend the team, we can then go to court and win. Judges have NO place in labor issues. This will lead to a challenge of the draft system again and freeagency rules IMHO, if the 2 idiots who did deflate gate knew TB liked the ball softer than regulation and they took it upon themselves to do this, it also tells me this is NOT the first time. Why would they have taken it on themselves to screw TB it such an important game for the first time in 10 years. Brady is a lying SOB. Gutless and let the little guys take the fall. By the way if he needs someone to take his place in bed with GisBun I volunteer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2015/09/tom_brady_beats_roger_goodell_deflategate_suspension_nullified "The Court finds that Brady had no notice that he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate footballs, and non-cooperation with the ensuing Investigation. Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance enhancing drugs," Berman wrote in his decision" So, the NFL was suppose to catch Brady in the act first, then give him a warning saying "Tommy, you better not do that again, otherwise you're going to get a four game suspension?" That is bull ****! You know you're not suppose to steal the gameballs from the refs and deflate the balls to under the regulated psi. Saying he should have been warned by the league beforehand is a crock of ****. So what, are we supposed to tell criminals once they commit a violent act, let them commit the act first, then give them a verbal warning telling them that if they do it again they'll get punished? What kind of pussified nation have we become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDS73 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Did the league ever actually compare this to a PED suspension when they went with the 4 game figure? That whole portion of the ruling seems so strange to me (unless the NFL did make that comparison). It almost feels like saying that they can't use that game count for any other type of suspension since it is already reserved for PEDs. they very specifically said they used the PED model as the framework for how they got to 4. the issue wasnt that they picked 4 and it happened to be similar to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The hell? Even the courts have a Brady rule now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2015/09/tom_brady_beats_roger_goodell_deflategate_suspension_nullified "The Court finds that Brady had no notice that he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate footballs, and non-cooperation with the ensuing Investigation. Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance enhancing drugs," Berman wrote in his decision" So, the NFL was suppose to catch Brady in the act first, then give him a warning saying "Tommy, you better not do that again, otherwise you're going to get a four game suspension?" That is bull ****! You know you're not suppose to steal the gameballs from the refs and deflate the balls to under the regulated psi. Saying he should have been warned by the league beforehand is a crock of ****. So what, are we supposed to tell criminals once they commit a violent act, let them commit the act first, then give them a verbal warning telling them that if they do it again they'll get punished? What kind of pussified nation have we become? its clear you dont understand the legal argument they are making. KtD might not agree with it, but atleast he took the time to understand it before being frustrated. http://deadspin.com/this-is-roger-goodells-defining-defeat-and-the-one-he-1728458158 deadspin hitting goodell hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 And this whole thing is an issue simply because Brady wouldn't man up and take his lumps when he got caught. He's not much of a man's man is he? kitty..... I swear there are no morals left in America. Brady you suck. Rot in hell you bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2015/09/tom_brady_beats_roger_goodell_deflategate_suspension_nullified "The Court finds that Brady had no notice that he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate footballs, and non-cooperation with the ensuing Investigation. Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance enhancing drugs," Berman wrote in his decision" So, the NFL was suppose to catch Brady in the act first, then give him a warning saying "Tommy, you better not do that again, otherwise you're going to get a four game suspension?" That is bull ****! You know you're not suppose to steal the gameballs from the refs and deflate the balls to under the regulated psi. Saying he should have been warned by the league beforehand is a crock of ****. So what, are we supposed to tell criminals once they commit a violent act, let them commit the act first, then give them a verbal warning telling them that if they do it again they'll get punished? What kind of pussified nation have we become? That's not what they're saying at all. They're saying the NFL's rules did not make it clear that anything Brady did was punishable. You can't decide after the fact that something should have been illegal and then retroactively impose a punishment as though it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The hell? Even the courts have a Brady rule now? Best I can tell from what I've read so far, looks like all you need to do is cheat on new, novel ways not explicitly covered in the CBA and you're scot free. As just last year alone showed, Belicheat could do that differently each game for years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odon59 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) In the previous thread, after reading the briefs filed with the court, I predicted Judge Berman would overturn the suspension on notice grounds. This was Brady's strongest argument. It's possible the Nfl will appeal to the second circuit, but they probably won't get a stay of Bermans ruling in the mean time. Edited September 3, 2015 by odon59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 That's not what they're saying at all. They're saying the NFL's rules did not make it clear that anything Brady did was punishable. You can't decide after the fact that something should have been illegal and then retroactively impose a punishment as though it were. . Because it's not obvious enough that you shouldn't steal the balls from the refs post-weigh in and deflate them? Smdh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The court ruling says no asterisk for Brady, but the Pats already have accepted a million $ fine and loss of some draft picks for violating the rule as an institution on the issue of trying to gain a competitive advantage by deflating footballs. Indeed. My note was a bit cryptic though. #noasterisk is actually a reference to when we beat the pants off them Week 2 with Brady at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 That's not what they're saying at all. They're saying the NFL's rules did not make it clear that anything Brady did was punishable. You can't decide after the fact that something should have been illegal and then retroactively impose a punishment as though it were. This is a real problem. So let me get this straight...you have to think of everything there is that could happen (even things that are not available yet or have not been dreamed of yet) and make sure you apply a punishment for each and everyone in order for it to stick? That's a bunch of bull!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 NFL should immediately create 1 year suspension for players and coaches who destroy evidence during an NFL investigation. For NFL teams that obstruct an NFL investigation, loss of all draft picks in the next NFL draft. Too late to stop Brady but needs to not let Patriots think they can get away next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 NFL should immediately create 1 year suspension for players and coaches who destroy evidence during an NFL investigation. For NFL teams that obstruct an NFL investigation, loss of all draft picks in the next NFL draft. Too late to stop Brady but needs to not let Patriots think they can get away next time. Careful what you wish for. I would like to think our organization is a stand up organization. So far they are, until they aren't. That could come back and bite. This ruling is bull though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 its clear you dont understand the legal argument they are making. KtD might not agree with it, but atleast he took the time to understand it before being frustrated. http://deadspin.com/this-is-roger-goodells-defining-defeat-and-the-one-he-1728458158 deadspin hitting goodell hard I understand the legal argument the judge was making. It seems the NFL needs to have, in writing, every single possible forms of cheating and what those punishments are in order for it to hold up in a court of law. Do you how long that would take and what a waste of time and money it would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 For those that want or expect Tommy to be taken out by someone during a game as punishment, why would the players want to do that? Because of him a huge loophole is now out there that allows them to possibly get out of suspensions given to them by the league. If anything I could see players thanking him and helping him up if he falls down because he has shown them how to beat a punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 . Because it's not obvious enough that you shouldn't steal the balls from the refs post-weigh in and deflate them? Smdh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) I think this is appropriate today. Get ready for week 2 Tommy. Edited September 3, 2015 by CountDorkula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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