Heitz Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/ "Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors." Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/ "Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors." Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football! From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl?do they have to have a SB ring to be better than Marrone and Hackett? They both have had playoff success and Roman was one play away from a ring. I think they might have some knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? Except if you watched the Bills the last two years. A number of players regressed, Spiller, Glenn and Wood to name a few. The handling of EJ Manuel could not have been worse. I believe that part of Marrone's decision to leave was that he knew he was in over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? These quotes tell me that's not the case: "The players in question also haven’t been publicly critical of the previous coaches, but they are making no secret about how much they have learned so far from the new assistants." And / or "He (Manuel) was essentially thrown into a mostly shotgun, zone-read offense as a rookie in 2013 minus essential training on how to operate it, and wasn’t helped a whole lot more last year." And / or "The receivers showed a general lack of awareness in basic route-running concepts, while the offensive linemen showed they generally needed much more in the way of education about techniques." You're not wrong that the proof is in the pudding, but sounds like last year they weren't event cooking with gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Except if you watched the Bills the last two years. A number of players regressed, Spiller, Glenn and Wood to name a few. The handling of EJ Manuel could not have been worse. I believe that part of Marrone's decision to leave was that he knew he was in over his head. Remember when no one on the 49ers offense regressed last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? have you? had Bellyache before he cheated? had Pete Carrol? look at his tenure in NY and NE***!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/ "Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors." Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football! You're really being selective if that article got you excited about the season - or you skipped the first two paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 As stated above, the rest of the paragraph singles out Manuel, receivers, and OL. Coaching shortcomings for Manuel could be argued as a combination of Marrone/Hackett (last two years) and the QB coach last year. Relative to receivers, Moore's only coaching experience prior was Syracuse. To me the OL comment especially about techniqes is especially damning for Marrone - who was supposed to be spending so mch time with the OL and that being his 'specialty'. So glad those clowns are gone. Still so crazy to think they would all still be here if Marrone just said 'OK, I'll stay' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 These quotes tell me that's not the case: "The players in question also haven’t been publicly critical of the previous coaches, but they are making no secret about how much they have learned so far from the new assistants." And / or "He (Manuel) was essentially thrown into a mostly shotgun, zone-read offense as a rookie in 2013 minus essential training on how to operate it, and wasn’t helped a whole lot more last year." And / or "The receivers showed a general lack of awareness in basic route-running concepts, while the offensive linemen showed they generally needed much more in the way of education about techniques." You're not wrong that the proof is in the pudding, but sounds like last year they weren't event cooking with gas... Except these players now have a scape goat. We'll see if any of them step up or make the team. But guys like Chandler and Spikes were not even given a second look by the new guys. If a lot of the guys are pushed to backup roles or even cut (like Tuel), then maybe these guys just weren't very good, and Marrone and crew actually did more for them to get them game ready. We were 9-7 last year with a journeyman QB, poor oline and a good defense. The team on paper except QB has a lot more talent thins year. If there isn't dramatic improvement by at least 2+ wins, then I suspect that the proof will be that Marrone as big a jerk as he was is probably a pretty darn good coach. Look at New Orleans. Granted they won the year after he left but he was a big part of teaching techniques to that team. How's that Syracuse team doing now? Not defending the jerk, just saying that this team did a lot more last year than anyone expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl?Which would make them stupid coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Remember when no one on the 49ers offense regressed last year? I rarely watch the 49ers, but just as was the case with Rex and the Jets, everyone knew Harbaugh was done there. That is a different situation. The entire 49er organization is a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Remember when no one on the 49ers offense regressed last year? Remember when most of the team was in near-open-rebellion against Jim Harbaugh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Remember when most of the team was in near-open-rebellion against Jim Harbaugh? Because that's not a coaching issue that Roman is partially culpable for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Because that's not a coaching issue that Roman is partially culpable for? How so? Are you seriously going to blame Roman for Harbaugh's team blowing up on him? Come on ChanFuego...you formulate many well-supported arguments and are fully capable of defending them; I'm struggling to see how this will be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Except if you watched the Bills the last two years. A number of players regressed, Spiller, Glenn and Wood to name a few. The handling of EJ Manuel could not have been worse. I believe that part of Marrone's decision to leave was that he knew he was in over his head. I highly doubt that. He seems far too arrogant to think like that. If anything, he felt he was smarter than the Bills FO and wanted out to somewhere he could have more control and be revered for his 'genius.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/ "Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors." Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football! May I just take this opportunity, once again, to say thank you to Doug Marrone for having such an incredibly over-inflated ego that he felt he could bully Terry Pegula into a lucrative extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? Has Doug Marrone been to the playoffs let alone a conference championship game? Speaking solely in the roles we are judging, Hc v. Hc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 These quotes tell me that's not the case: "The players in question also haven’t been publicly critical of the previous coaches, but they are making no secret about how much they have learned so far from the new assistants." And / or "He (Manuel) was essentially thrown into a mostly shotgun, zone-read offense as a rookie in 2013 minus essential training on how to operate it, and wasn’t helped a whole lot more last year." And / or "The receivers showed a general lack of awareness in basic route-running concepts, while the offensive linemen showed they generally needed much more in the way of education about techniques." You're not wrong that the proof is in the pudding, but sounds like last year they weren't event cooking with gas... I've mentioned a few times something Sammy said about having to get his steps down. I think the scheme was the number of steps in the route had to coincide with the number of steps in the QB's drop. I'm no expert, but I often wondered how that would work when the WR has a CB in his face bumping him at the LOS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 FireChan and VABills: "talk is cheap" -- we get it. That's your take. Enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 FireChan and VABills: "talk is cheap" -- we get it. That's your take. Enough already. It's a discussion board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 It's a discussion board. So discuss something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I've mentioned a few times something Sammy said about having to get his steps down. I think the scheme was the number of steps in the route had to coincide with the number of steps in the QB's drop. I'm no expert, but I often wondered how that would work when the WR has a CB in his face bumping him at the LOS? If we can get BackInDaDay to chime in on this...he's done some pretty good analysis on this exact topic on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If we can get BackInDaDay to chime in on this...he's done some pretty good analysis on this exact topic on this board. Thanks. Looked up some of his posts, and found this little gem, a response to when did you start to dislike Marrone: last season.. after watching our receivers running sloppy routes, and dragging defenders into each others routes - he threw receivers coach Ike Hilliard under the bus, rather than own up to the fact that all this took place on Hackett's watch. Prescient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Old is bad, new is better. Welcome to the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 No surprise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm pretty sure FireChan is actually Doug Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So discuss something else. So let's close this and every other thread. Marrone sucks, no he doesn't. Ends those threads. Ej sucks, no he doesn't. Yup all the QB threads. Actually putting an opinion out, countering and having a little bantering is what this is all about? Or did I miss the intent of this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/06/22/vic-caruccis-take-five-bills-offseason-workouts/ "Intensive teaching. The coaches identified plenty that was wrong with the fundamentals of returning players. Although no one from the current staff is going to take public shots at the former staff, there is a clear sense that the new group doesn’t think all that highly of the some of the work done by the predecessors." Yikes at that entire paragraph. Just another reason to believe that this is going to be a fun year - our guys may actually know how to play NFL football! So the new coaches think they are better than the old coaches. Shocking. That almost never happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 How so? Are you seriously going to blame Roman for Harbaugh's team blowing up on him? Come on ChanFuego...you formulate many well-supported arguments and are fully capable of defending them; I'm struggling to see how this will be one of them. I think it's unrealistic to give Roman a complete pass on the season last year. Who worked with Kaep when he melted down? Do I think Roman was the chief reason the team was out of whack last year? No. Do I hold him at least a tiny bit responsible? Yes. You don't get a free pass just because your HC was also bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Carucci is pretty even-handed. He's hardly been singing Manuel's praises, but what this tells me is that there is reasonable evidence to suggest that inadequate coaching has contributed to Manuel's struggles. Until EJ takes the curve we don't have hard evidence, but the idea that growth potential still remains is encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm pretty sure FireChan is actually Doug Marrone. I've seen the "the old coach was the source of all of our problems and our new coach rocks and will solve everything" story quite a bit. If Rex/Roman get us to 12-4 and our offense looks like a whole new unit, I'll make that opinion. Not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So let's close this and every other thread. Marrone sucks, no he doesn't. Ends those threads. Ej sucks, no he doesn't. Yup all the QB threads. Actually putting an opinion out, countering and having a little bantering is what this is all about? Or did I miss the intent of this board? When the opinions being put out by any particular poster all essentially say the same thing it gets tiresome. You know the point I'm making but choose to ignore it. That's fine; carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 When the opinions being put out by any particular poster all essentially say the same thing it gets tiresome. You know the point I'm making but choose to ignore it. That's fine; carry on. Except when you agree with them. Then it's gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I've seen the "the old coach was the source of all of our problems and our new coach rocks and will solve everything" story quite a bit. If Rex/Roman get us to 12-4 and our offense looks like a whole new unit, I'll make that opinion. Not before. When's the last time we've had a staff with a resume like Rex/Roman? I mean, I understand being pessimistic, because we've been low for so long... but I just don't see how Rex/Roman are the same as Chan/Stache for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think it's unrealistic to give Roman a complete pass on the season last year. Who worked with Kaep when he melted down? Do I think Roman was the chief reason the team was out of whack last year? No. Do I hold him at least a tiny bit responsible? Yes. You don't get a free pass just because your HC was also bad. Sure, Roman owns responsibility for the performance of the offense. I can't, however, say that Kaep "melted down". He threw for 3,300 yards, 19 TDs, and 10 INTs while adding another 640 yards rushing. His completion percentage dropped to 60.5, and his YPA was down to 7.0, so yes, there was some regression. As far as starting QBs go, those numbers each fall right in the middle of the pack (with the exception of YPA, where he was 22nd...0.1 YPA behind Tom Brady, and completion percentage, where he finished 24th). IMO, his biggest problem was taking too many sacks last year. He was dropped 52 times while taking only 68 hits, which to me says that it wasn't the OL that was getting him pummeled. Regression? Yes. Meltdown? No. Does Roman take some of the blame? Yes, I think so. How much? Really hard to say without knowing what was going on behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Remember when no one on the 49ers offense regressed last year?you won't site reviving Alex Smith's career or taking Kap to the SB, but you'll bring up one year when dysfunction by managment sank the team..... You trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 There's plenty of evidence that ass-poor coaching impacted the OL. Just watch the all-22, the blocking schemes are blatantly pitiful. you won't site reviving Alex Smith's career or taking Kap to the SB, but you'll bring up one year when dysfunction by managment sank the team.....You trolling? "Cite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 From a different perspective, maybe the old coaches were teaching how to use these flawed players beyond their ability. Nothing to say the new guys are any better. Has Rex or Roman won a Super Bowl? No they just know what it is like to expect to be in the playoffs and conference championship game...... Sorry.....the super bowl winning coaches were not available this offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 No they just know what it is like to expect to be in the playoffs and conference championship game...... Sorry.....the super bowl winning coaches were not available this offseason And Marrone did that quite a bit in NO as the OC. Of course he also went to a bowl game with Cuse. So the old coaches also understood getting to the playoffs which not for a crap game against Oakland and Texans might have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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