patfitz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Where does the fiduciary responsibility lie for this? http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/06/who_are_the_buffalo_bills_best_and_worst_salary_cap_values_for_2015.html Even if Wood was worth the $ that is a very high price. I wonder if Jim is "Overdorfing" it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Where does the fiduciary responsibility lie for this? http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/06/who_are_the_buffalo_bills_best_and_worst_salary_cap_values_for_2015.html Even if Wood was worth the $ that is a very high price. I wonder if Jim is "Overdorfing" it a bit. That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Where does the fiduciary responsibility lie for this? http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/06/who_are_the_buffalo_bills_best_and_worst_salary_cap_values_for_2015.html Even if Wood was worth the $ that is a very high price. I wonder if Jim is "Overdorfing" it a bit. At the time he got the deal, he was a top-10 center and a player on the rise. He had a down year last year, but he's still among the top-half of the centers in the NFL. Right now, he's the 8th-highest paid center in the NFL in terms of average annual compensation. As long as he improves upon his performance last year, he'll probably move back into the top quarter of starting centers. If he doesn't, he'll probably be released before the start of next season, as the team can save $2.4M against the cap by letting him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 So far cap considerations haven't been much of a problem for the Bills for years. So it's hard to get too concerned about them overspending for anyone. For the most part, I've wanted them to spend more. But I am starting to wonder about next year - and the years ahead - with no big name QB under contract and lots of cap space taken up by other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall I've never heard of this term "glue contract", but it explains why the Bills inexplicably gave Chris Kelsay a 4 year 24m deal early in the 2010 season. I guess Whaley really did learn a few things from Nix, because both have re-signed under-producing players to deals well beyond their team value. BTW, which other NFL GM's are wont to provide "glue contracts" to their veteran players who are good in the locker room? The things I learn from this board. So far cap considerations haven't been much of a problem for the Bills for years. So it's hard to get too concerned about them overspending for anyone. For the most part, I've wanted them to spend more. But I am starting to wonder about next year - and the years ahead - with no big name QB under contract and lots of cap space taken up by other positions. You doubt Doug Whaley? Blasphemy! Edited June 3, 2015 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 We had garbage to the left AND to right of Wood last season. Maybe let's not judge too harshly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I've never heard of this term "glue contract", but it explains why the Bills inexplicably gave Chris Kelsay a 4 year 24m deal early in the 2010 season. I guess Whaley really did learn a few things from Nix, because both have re-signed under-producing players to deals well beyond their team value. BTW, which other NFL GM's are wont to provide "glue contracts" to their veteran players who are good in the locker room? The things I learn from this board. You doubt Doug Whaley? Blasphemy! Everyone underwhelmed on the OL last year..... Lets see what happens this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 We had garbage to the left AND to right of Wood last season. Maybe let's not judge too harshly? This. He produces this year or moves on. I think he rebounds this season with some talent around him and no more idiot coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 We had garbage to the left AND to right of Wood last season. Maybe let's not judge too harshly? UConn, I agree with you vs. Green Lightning. Lines work as a single unit so you can have one avg Guard, and others above average and the unit works well together. If Incognito gets back to 2012, and the draft plays well, we could have a strong unit this year, and Wood has 5 previous years as a top 10 Center, outside of his original freak injuries with a broken leg, etc. My bet is he comes on this year with a strong showing in the run game and adequate against the pass. He has his hands full with Suh, but he played well enough in last year's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 We had garbage to the left AND to right of Wood last season. Maybe let's not judge too harshly? Plus the comments of having different coaches telling him to do different things.... As the guy making line calls (getting inconsistent instruction and communicating to guys dealing with the same) and sitting between a rotating group of guys that struggled - it's no surprise he didn't look elite. That said he did seem to lose more 1-1 heads up battles than my gut said he should've. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) At the time he got the deal, he was a top-10 center and a player on the rise. He had a down year last year, but he's still among the top-half of the centers in the NFL. Right now, he's the 8th-highest paid center in the NFL in terms of average annual compensation. As long as he improves upon his performance last year, he'll probably move back into the top quarter of starting centers. If he doesn't, he'll probably be released before the start of next season, as the team can save $2.4M against the cap by letting him go. This, exactly. That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall Disagree, about the contract, John. At the time Wood got the contract, he was a top-10 center and a young player on the rise. He also had acceptable play on either side to him. Not that all the stuff you say about "glue" and "team player" and locker room leader aren't true.....but he negotiated that contract based upon his play at the time. If he were negotiating his contract after last year, the checkbook would have been leaner despite all the great stuff off the field, and if his play doesn't step back closer to where it was, he'll either reno or be snipped. As long as he has decent guards flanking him and a blocking scheme that's better suited to the bodies, he'll be fine. Edited June 3, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 This, exactly. Disagree, about the contract, John. At the time Wood got the contract, he was a top-10 center and a young player on the rise. He also had acceptable play on either side to him. Not that all the stuff you say about "glue" and "team player" and locker room leader aren't true.....but he negotiated that contract based upon his play at the time. If he were negotiating his contract after last year, the checkbook would have been leaner despite all the great stuff off the field, and if his play doesn't step back closer to where it was, he'll either reno or be snipped. As long as he has decent guards flanking him and a blocking scheme that's better suited to the bodies, he'll be fine. I did watch him more than i wanted to last year, Lets hope the trend reverses. whether from coaching or beefing up his surrounding cast ! right now, he is overpaid. and i am not sure he ever reached his desired "potential". I want to keep the guy , but i want him to play up to his contract more. and yes i have been a big fan of his since he became a Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Really? putting Wood under the microscope, oy'! Nothing to see here, move along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I've never heard of this term "glue contract", but it explains why the Bills inexplicably gave Chris Kelsay a 4 year 24m deal early in the 2010 season. I guess Whaley really did learn a few things from Nix, because both have re-signed under-producing players to deals well beyond their team value. BTW, which other NFL GM's are wont to provide "glue contracts" to their veteran players who are good in the locker room? The things I learn from this board. If you never heard of a glue contract, then you probably never heard of the "hot sauce" contract. it is when you over pay for a big personality to add a little spice to a bland team of boring personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Where does the fiduciary responsibility lie for this? http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/06/who_are_the_buffalo_bills_best_and_worst_salary_cap_values_for_2015.html Even if Wood was worth the $ that is a very high price. I wonder if Jim is "Overdorfing" it a bit. When the 2 guards next to you suck, then you are not going to have a stellar year at Center typically unless you are Elite. Wood to me is: 1. A good Center who could be a very good center with reasonable quality on the line with him, especially at guard. 2. A great locker room guy 3. A great team leader 4. A guy who struggled last year due to having a terrible offensive scheme, players around him who kept changing, and below average guys playing directly next to him. A lot of people do not understand how much the OL relies on each other. People think of football as a sport where individuals can star and often forget that in MOST positions on the field, the individual players success or failure is heavily influenced by those around them. Along the OL, if the players do not gel and play well as a unit, then its going to be very difficult for any one player to have consistency and success. The OL is probably the most dependent on the guys around them on the entire football field as they need to really play as one. I expect a good year out of Wood assuming he stays healthy, as I expect the OL to be much better this year and I think its capable of being one of the better units in football. I say that because we have good tackles and we made 2 great additions at guard this year and young guys developing for depth. Edited June 4, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 the Federal Reserve should include NFL salaries when they calculate inflation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 We had garbage to the left AND to right of Wood last season. Maybe let's not judge too harshly? Perhaps I was slightly harsh, because the interior of that OL was putrid last season. Cyril Williams, Kraig Urbik, and Erik Pears aren't much to write home about. Eric Wood, from the moment he called out Aaron Maybin, has been a fan favorite. I also like how he described the Toronto series a few years ago, but it doesn't remove the fact his play fell off a little last year. He's a guy to watch in 2015 given what we hope is improved G play on that OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Perhaps I was slightly harsh, because the interior of that OL was putrid last season. Cyril Williams, Kraig Urbik, and Erik Pears aren't much to write home about. Eric Wood, from the moment he called out Aaron Maybin, has been a fan favorite. I also like how he described the Toronto series a few years ago, but it doesn't remove the fact his play fell off a little last year. He's a guy to watch in 2015 given what we hope is improved G play on that OL. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Everyone underwhelmed on the OL last year..... Lets see what happens this year. You can say that again. From my viewpoint, it's not easy to defend any of these guys until we see what they can do under Roman. It's not possible to know if last year was a mere blip only in every case or the first signs of some people falling over a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ask Romo/the Cowboys what life is like when you don't have a decent center who plays 16 games/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Holy crap...sometimes I hate this place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I've never heard of this term "glue contract", but it explains why the Bills inexplicably gave Chris Kelsay a 4 year 24m deal early in the 2010 season. I guess Whaley really did learn a few things from Nix, because both have re-signed under-producing players to deals well beyond their team value. BTW, which other NFL GM's are wont to provide "glue contracts" to their veteran players who are good in the locker room? Let's stay in the present, if you please. What underperforming players who underperformed in the season before they were signed, has Whaley re-signed? asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf (waiting) PS the "glue contract" idea is B.S. Edited June 4, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Here is a list of salaries of centers: http://overthecap.com/position/center This is fair criticism. He's the 9th highest paid center in the league and nowhere near the 9th best. I suspect this season - since the OG play will likely be better - will be a big one for him. If he doesn't perform well I don't know how the Bills will justify keeping him with other contracts due. Edited to add: I just looked more closely at his deal. His large signing bonus and relatively low salary will likely keep him on through 2016. Still, he hasn't been earning his contract. Edited June 4, 2015 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Here is a list of salaries of centers: http://overthecap.com/position/center This is fair criticism. He's the 9th highest paid center in the league and nowhere near the 9th best. I suspect this season - since the OG play will likely be better - will be a big one for him. If he doesn't perform well I don't know how the Bills will justify keeping him with other contracts due. Edited to add: I just looked more closely at his deal. His large signing bonus and relatively low salary will likely keep him on through 2016. Still, he hasn't been earning his contract. i dont know that hes "nowhere near 9th" and a flaw in going solely by dollar ranking is guys will always be paid a little higher than the actual slot as rookie contracts playing better than them, wont slot out ahead in pay. if you think hes a totally average guy getting paid right around the fringe of the top ten -- it isnt terribly out of line. if you think hes a flat out bad player, thats a different story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Where does the fiduciary responsibility lie for this? http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/06/who_are_the_buffalo_bills_best_and_worst_salary_cap_values_for_2015.html Even if Wood was worth the $ that is a very high price. I wonder if Jim is "Overdorfing" it a bit. I think this will be Wood's last season with the Bills. I think he will play better this year, but, we need the cap space moving forward. That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall He is below average against the run and inked the deal when we were pass happy with Chan. Or coming off a Chan season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Let's stay in the present, if you please. What underperforming players who underperformed in the season before they were signed, has Whaley re-signed? asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf (waiting) PS the "glue contract" idea is B.S. Pro Personnel has been hit and miss the past few years and admittedly, Whaley's sample size isn't very large. I would argue however he was in transition to the GM during the winter/early spring of 2013. McKelvin and Wood are the guys who've regressed from 2013 to 2014, and both were signed in the former year. Wood has struggled more since his 2011 knee injury and it's been pretty obvious. IIRC, he admitted his level of play regressed this season and it's not fair to conflate that in the context of the entire OL, although the 2014 OL was very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Pro Personnel has been hit and miss the past few years and admittedly, Whaley's sample size isn't very large. I would argue however he was in transition to the GM during the winter/early spring of 2013. McKelvin and Wood are the guys who've regressed from 2013 to 2014, and both were signed in the former year. Wood has struggled more since his 2011 knee injury and it's been pretty obvious. IIRC, he admitted his level of play regressed this season and it's not fair to conflate that in the context of the entire OL, although the 2014 OL was very poor. Wood Had injuries, but his slide IMO was when Levitre left. Wood never had to slide and help.him. He saved that for Urbik or whoever. Since Levitre has left he has had garbage on both sides of him. That said there is nothing special about him other than his attitude. Which is great. He should be serviceable until his contract plays out. I get the love for the guy but he as never sniffed any post season awards. he is a good dependable average center. Edited June 4, 2015 by Best Player Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I find it interesting how people B word about cap space and this player not playing well and that person not doing this......without also including the reasons WHY those things might be happening. Wood is a solid center....which by the way is not (just like left tackle) THAT easy to replace.... be careful what you wish for......because the next player could also be worse instead of better.....we dont have Woods replacement on the roster. Lets see if improved OL play at the guard positions increases Woods productivity before deciding to shitcan a leader in our locker room capologists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 i dont know that hes "nowhere near 9th" and a flaw in going solely by dollar ranking is guys will always be paid a little higher than the actual slot as rookie contracts playing better than them, wont slot out ahead in pay. if you think hes a totally average guy getting paid right around the fringe of the top ten -- it isnt terribly out of line. if you think hes a flat out bad player, thats a different story though. Some of those players on their rookie deals are outplaying Wood and getting paid less, but that's part of the player turnover. The reality is that you can get a vet who can perform as well or better for less. You can get a rookie to do the same for a lot less. He's being paid a nice premium to be well above average and he's not. It was a contract that hasn't worked out for the Bills. It happens. Wood has some time to turn it around and it'll be best for him and the bills if he does. For the record, I'd say calling his play average the last couple years is charitable. I understand that the guard play has sucked so I'm willing to give him a bit of a pass, but he's got to get better or he won't be around much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimkelly12203 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 He hasn't been the same since Levitre left. And neither has the entire OL. It's curious because Levitre didn't exactly play well when he left either. The thing about football is it's all synergy. A combination of players may be amazing in a given scheme and with other specirifc players around them, but you take any one from that group and separate them from it and you don't get the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 He hasn't been the same since Levitre left. And neither has the entire OL. It's curious because Levitre didn't exactly play well when he left either. The thing about football is it's all synergy. A combination of players may be amazing in a given scheme and with other specirifc players around them, but you take any one from that group and separate them from it and you don't get the same result. well, you could probably easily blame the transition from chan to marrone and associated differences in the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 He hasn't been the same since Levitre left. And neither has the entire OL. It's curious because Levitre didn't exactly play well when he left either. The thing about football is it's all synergy. A combination of players may be amazing in a given scheme and with other specirifc players around them, but you take any one from that group and separate them from it and you don't get the same result. We can blame the flaw in the franchise tag policy for having to let Levitre go. Guards should not make the same as tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 We can blame the flaw in the franchise tag policy for having to let Levitre go. Guards should not make the same as tackles. used the tag on byrd that year, regardless. and i think they probably would have either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 He hasn't been the same since Levitre left. And neither has the entire OL. It's curious because Levitre didn't exactly play well when he left either. The thing about football is it's all synergy. A combination of players may be amazing in a given scheme and with other specirifc players around them, but you take any one from that group and separate them from it and you don't get the same result. You've earned your first official indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreezeMafia Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That is what you call a "team glue" contract Wood has been a team player through all of it.......great in the locker room......good on the field...solid overall Below average center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Below average center. Define below average..... This should be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) He hasn't been the same since Levitre left. And neither has the entire OL. It's curious because Levitre didn't exactly play well when he left either. The thing about football is it's all synergy. A combination of players may be amazing in a given scheme and with other specirifc players around them, but you take any one from that group and separate them from it and you don't get the same result. This is why the Bills are doing everything they can to keep the front 4 on the DL together Edited June 4, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Define below average..... This should be good people love this guy but him getting blown 5 yards into the backfield one on one at the start of half the plays (hyperbole on the half the plays line) is not due to garbage on either side of him - he has lost strength/leverage from all his leg injuries and it shows. he'll do better this year as the scheme can only be designed better than that clusterufck last year- i expect the design will not isolate/expose him like last year did as we return to competent coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 people love this guy but him getting blown 5 yards into the backfield one on one at the start of half the plays (hyperbole on the half the plays line) is not due to garbage on either side of him - he has lost strength/leverage from all his leg injuries and it shows. he'll do better this year as the scheme can only be designed better than that clusterufck last year- i expect the design will not isolate/expose him like last year did as we return to competent coaching This is a totally uninformed opinion........this happens to every center in the league from time to time. Wood himself said he was not happen with his performance last year so there is no doubt he did not play well.....but to say this is soley on him and discounting "the garbage around him" is not realistic....... There are many factors that come into play on any GIVEN play as to way a center loses ground or does not lose ground on a given play....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 This is a totally uninformed opinion........this happens to every center in the league from time to time. Wood himself said he was not happen with his performance last year so there is no doubt he did not play well.....but to say this is soley on him and discounting "the garbage around him" is not realistic....... There are many factors that come into play on any GIVEN play as to way a center loses ground or does not lose ground on a given play....... really, for the below average crowd, i think you would be hard pressed to name 16-20 centers better. which is always the best test when throwing around casual evaluations like that. i know i surprise myself (both over and underestimating guys) before making the lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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