YoloinOhio Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 @RossJonesFOX: Is EJ Manuel a franchise QB? Rex Ryan says #Bills will 'absolutely' explore FAs and draft picks for competition. http://t.co/LFZwDJLaGK Rex Ryan talks EJ Manuel's future, plans for Sammy Watkins and Bills' elite D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 FS: What excites you about EJ Manuel's game? RR: Well, I think EJ when he was coming out I remember he was a smart young man. He was dedicated to the game and I think that's what you have to be at that position, in particular. He's got some movement skills. I don't think he uses his legs enough to be quite honest with you, but hopefully we can change that. People that criticize him because he didn't jump in and make it to the playoffs as a rookie or something would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 better call a Realtor, son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 better call a Realtor, son Yep! EJ will hang around as a backup in a learning role for a while...while we pursue AND PLAY other QBs. At some point, when it becomes too expensive or complicated to retain him on the roster, he will go bye bye, having never really done anything. That's my prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Ever notice how no one ever says EJ has a great ability to throw the ball, or he can really spin it, or what a thrower, what accuracy etc. Its because the main characteristic of a QB he doesn't possess at the NFL elite level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Ever notice how no one ever says EJ has a great ability to throw the ball, or he can really spin it, or what a thrower, what accuracy etc. Its because the main characteristic of a QB he doesn't possess at the NFL elite level. Dude has 19 touchdowns (16 passing/3 rushing) in 14 starts with the 2 amateurs Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett coaching him up. I like how you and the other EJ bashers just ignore the fact that he had a very normal and average slow start to his career that even many elite NFL QBs once had. If everyone on this board was told before he started his first game that he'd have 19 TDs after 14 games started then they'd say that was awesome. Edited January 19, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Dude has 19 touchdowns (16 passing/3 rushing) in 14 starts with the the 2 amateurs Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett coaching him up. I like how you and the other EJ bashers just ignore the fact that he had a very normal and average slow start to his career that even many elite NFL QBs once had. If everyone on this board was told before he started his first game that he'd have 19 TDs after 14 games started then they'd say that was awesome. haters got to hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 EJ will not finish his rookie contract in buffalo. if they can after this camp or next camp they will cut their losses. Take a late round pick and continue the new era in Buffalo football. he does not posses the football instinct or game to be a NFL successful starting QB. rex is being PC he has to be. he just arrived and Whaley and others depend on it at this point. Thanks Nix, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 EJ will not finish his rookie contract in buffalo. if they can after this camp or next camp they will cut their losses. Take a late round pick and continue the new era in Buffalo football. he does not posses the football instinct or game to be a NFL successful starting QB. rex is being PC he has to be. he just arrived and Whaley and others depend on it at this point. Thanks Nix, etc. Damn that EJ Manuel for being drafted a project QB and turning out to be a project QB...LOL He's not going anywhere because rookie contracts are very CHEAP. You may wish it to happen, but it won't. Although it will be fun watching the QB competition this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Dude has 19 touchdowns (16 passing/3 rushing) in 14 starts with the 2 amateurs Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett coaching him up. I like how you and the other EJ bashers just ignore the fact that he had a very normal and average slow start to his career that even many elite NFL QBs once had. If everyone on this board was told before he started his first game that he'd have 19 TDs after 14 games started then they'd say that was awesome. The stats by themselves with no other context can be twisted and turned to support different arguments. Heck even Tebow threw for 17TDs and rushed for 12 more in his limited time. Are we just going to ignore that this kid had an entire off-season, training camp and pre-season to work on his game and show signs of improvement in his second year? The same erratic and timid EJ that we saw in training camp is the same one we saw during the regular season. All you have to do is put the tape on of this kid and you'll see a serious lack of accuracy, anticipation and awareness. Perhaps those things will improve with different coaching and a new scheme on offense but I'm certainly not going to put all of my eggs in the EJ basket again. He has a lot to prove just to show that he can be a competent NFL starter much less a good one. Edited January 19, 2015 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Damn that EJ Manuel for being drafted a project QB and turning out to be a project QB...LOL He's not going anywhere because rookie contracts are very CHEAP. You may wish it to happen, but it won't. Although it will be fun watching the QB competition this year. I understand it is not about money. It's IMO more about someone taking a high value roster spot, namely a QB. yes, he is a project. I wish him luck. because he lacks in some skill areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The stats by themselves with no other context can be twisted and turned to support different arguments. Heck even Tebow threw for 17TDs and rushed for 12 more in his limited time. Are we just going to ignore that this kid had an entire off-season, training camp and pre-season to work on his game and show signs of improvement in his second year? The same erratic and timid EJ that we saw in training camp is the same one we saw during the regular season. All you have to do is put the tape on of this kid and you'll see a serious lack of accuracy, anticipation and awareness. Perhaps those things will improve with different coaching and a new scheme on offense but I'm certainly not going to put all of my eggs in the EJ basket again. He has a lot to prove just to show that he can be a competent NFL starter much less a good one. Perhaps all of his instincts were coached out of him by an egomaniacal control freak. I'm not saying I'm right -- just that it's a possibility. Players who could go one way or the other have been ruined by poor coaching before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Perhaps all of his instincts were coached out of him by an egomaniacal control freak. I'm not saying I'm right -- just that it's a possibility. Players who could go one way or the other have been ruined by poor coaching before. It's certainly a possibility and we can't rule that out. I've said before that Marrone likely ruined EJ and his development for two years by having him try to be something he wasn't right away and getting in his head too much about taking the safe play or not trying to make plays with his feet. He's a project but did the last two years do more harm than good? I believe they did. Roman and Lee may have to break him down in order to build him back up again. EJ really needs to stop being so robotic and mechanical and just let his natural athletic ability and instincts take over. Just look at this video from 2011 and notice how fluid and natural he looks dropping back and climbing the pocket. Compare that to how stiff and robotic he looked once Marrone got his hands on him. This is a case where I think too much coaching got the worst of him. Edited January 19, 2015 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Look back at week 2 of 2013. The guy has ability. The last 3 min of the game shows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 ...and what is Plan B if they commit to Manuel, and through the 1st quarter of the season, he ***** the bed? Just waste another year of a great defense? Coax Orton out of retirement again? Put Tuel in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) OMG Can I live through the next 8 months of the haters saying EJ sucks and will be cut before the season begins? Orton was no better than EJ especially when you factor in the fact that he couldn't scramble. By default EJ is the starter until they actually sign someone who clearly can outperform him in Buffalo in practice and not some fictional guessing game. Unless they sign a Drew Breese or Aaron Rogers Edited January 19, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Perhaps all of his instincts were coached out of him by an egomaniacal control freak. I'm not saying I'm right -- just that it's a possibility. Players who could go one way or the other have been ruined by poor coaching before. It would be nice if they would take a wait and see approach with regards to seeing what Manuel will do under Roman considering how bad Marrone was as a coach. The Bills are bringing another QB in to compete with him and the best QB will win the starting spot in training camp. Even if Manuel starts the season on the bench it doesn't mean that the new guy will hold onto the position during the season or vise versa. I just don't get the hate, it's not like EJ's the Bills' guy and they're not bringing in anyone else to compete. They clearly are. Let's root for the best QB to win the job and take the Bills to the playoffs regardless of who it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 @RossJonesFOX: Is EJ Manuel a franchise QB? Rex Ryan says #Bills will 'absolutely' explore FAs and draft picks for competition. http://t.co/LFZwDJLaGK Rex Ryan talks EJ Manuel's future, plans for Sammy Watkins and Bills' elite D We currently have one QB on the roster, plus Tuel. Does anyone expect Rex to say anything differently? of course, they're going to look at all possible avenues to bring in at least 1 or 2 more QBs. And until Rex sees who that is and how EJ plays in practice, there's no way he says who the starter is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Marone and Hackett couldn't "hack it" and that possibility has led some people to assume that one EJ Manuel "sucks from now to eternity" . I will assume that these people are also the has been faithful. We currently have one QB on the roster, plus Tuel. Does anyone expect Rex to say anything differently? of course, they're going to look at all possible avenues to bring in at least 1 or 2 more QBs. And until Rex sees who that is and how EJ plays in practice, there's no way he says who the starter is. except by default as I just posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giaimo25 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm the eternal optimist, so it may be that part of me speaking right now, but I think with Roman's offense, EJ can have a hell of a year. If he can do it with Alex smith, and Kap, he should be able to make EJ into a capable "game manager" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm the eternal optimist, so it may be that part of me speaking right now, but I think with Roman's offense, EJ can have a hell of a year. If he can do it with Alex smith, and Kap, he should be able to make EJ into a capable "game manager" You may be right, unfortunately when I hear that David Lee is going to be his coach -- I think the deck is stacked against him. Hopefully Roman takes the lead in coaching the QB's. Lee is someone who thought it was a good idea to mess with a veterans mechanics. At the point they are a veteran there is very little mechanical work that can be done. You can tweak here and there, but what that guy tried to do with with Fitz was totally misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) It's certainly a possibility and we can't rule that out. I've said before that Marrone likely ruined EJ and his development for two years by having him try to be something he wasn't right away and getting in his head too much about taking the safe play or not trying to make plays with his feet. He's a project but did the last two years do more harm than good? I believe they did. Roman and Lee may have to break him down in order to build him back up again. EJ really needs to stop being so robotic and mechanical and just let his natural athletic ability and instincts take over. Just look at this video from 2011 and notice how fluid and natural he looks dropping back and climbing the pocket. Compare that to how stiff and robotic he looked once Marrone got his hands on him. This is a case where I think too much coaching got the worst of him. Thanks for the video reminder of what Manuel can do. Around 1:30 of the Manuel video article released today it mentions that Manuel feels "in an effort to please the previous coaching staff he focused too much on doing everything perfect instead of just playing and letting his natural athletic ability take over." http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Bills-Focus-Manuel-Looks-to-Rebound/44092874-0499-4dc2-a417-099e6a4dba6f I'm not sure Manuel can play in this league as a long term starter but am excited to see where he's at next summer. One of the things that always bugged me before his benching was how slow he was to hand the ball off in the running game and how lousy his ball fakes were. When he came in to do a couple of handoffs for the last Jets game he looked markedly better. We'll see. Edited January 19, 2015 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 EJ Manual may never turn into a great QB but I'd be willing to bet money he looks a hell of a lot better playing under Rex and Roman than he did under Marrone and Hackett in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 EJ could be great. The Bills have no way of knowing after Marrone ruined him. He could potentially be great, but this is a win-now league. He will have to win a QB battle in camp, or come in if whoever the starter is gets injured. They need a vet QB. EJ Manual may never turn into a great QB but I'd be willing to bet money he looks a hell of a lot better playing under Rex and Roman than he did under Marrone and Hackett in 2014. well, anyone who would bet against you is nuts! He looked totally lost last year w/ Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's certainly a possibility and we can't rule that out. I've said before that Marrone likely ruined EJ and his development for two years by having him try to be something he wasn't right away and getting in his head too much about taking the safe play or not trying to make plays with his feet. He's a project but did the last two years do more harm than good? I believe they did. Roman and Lee may have to break him down in order to build him back up again. EJ really needs to stop being so robotic and mechanical and just let his natural athletic ability and instincts take over. Just look at this video from 2011 and notice how fluid and natural he looks dropping back and climbing the pocket. Compare that to how stiff and robotic he looked once Marrone got his hands on him. This is a case where I think too much coaching got the worst of him. Besides refreshing my memories of why I liked him coming out of college, these are a few of the things that stood out in the video: 1 - On many of those plays, EJ was reading the entire field, not just "half the field" as some have said he did at FSU; 2 - All the plays were out of the shotgun; 3 - I really like O'Leary. He'd make a nice "blankie" for EJ like Fleener does for Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 well, anyone who would bet against you is nuts! He looked totally lost last year w/ Marrone. He wasn't alone either. I seriously don't know HOW Marrone and Hackett managed to screw everyone up SO badly, but our Oline and run game took about 500 steps back from 2013 with pretty much the same personnel available in 2013 and 2014. If anything they should have been better in 2014 because we added several RBs and Olinemen while still keeping the ones we had in 2013. Marrone and Hackett completely destroyed our offense.... somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 My opinion is that the bills should have followed their original plan of EJ holding a clipboard for a couple of years before starting him.......and allowing him to continue to work on his mechanics...... Even when Kolb got hurt...that STILL should have been the plan If Rex feels like he should be the backup this year....fine....just dont get rid of the kid because I still think he has some game to him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Being able to learn and develop out of the spotlight is probably the best thing that could have ever happened to EJ's career. At least now he has a chance to come back fierce. If he would have started all this season and/or next he probably would have been ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's depressing watching those FSU highlights. EJ actually lets it rip, with accuracy. I really despise Saint Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You may be right, unfortunately when I hear that David Lee is going to be his coach -- I think the deck is stacked against him. Hopefully Roman takes the lead in coaching the QB's. Lee is someone who thought it was a good idea to mess with a veterans mechanics. At the point they are a veteran there is very little mechanical work that can be done. You can tweak here and there, but what that guy tried to do with with Fitz was totally misguided. David Lee actually has a hell of a resume. And everyone who says he messed up Fitz fail to realize that Fitz had his most productive season under him. Fitz was before and still is a turnover waiting to happen. Lee has been given some huge challenges in his career. Keep in mind, teams that hire a QB coach are trying to fix known problems with the QB or simply working with a rookie. Take a good look at this guy's job history. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/David-Lee-named-Bills-QB-coach/a804232e-e4ee-43c2-87c7-97363072a8fe It's depressing watching those FSU highlights. EJ actually lets it rip, with accuracy. I really despise Saint Doug. Hard to believe so many are completely writing him off after watching that. Accuracy, and when he takes off running....wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Kid is way too hard of a worker to write him off yet. Read that he's still the first one in at OBD in the mornings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 ...and what is Plan B if they commit to Manuel, and through the 1st quarter of the season, he ***** the bed? Just waste another year of a great defense? Coax Orton out of retirement again? Put Tuel in?That is the million dollar question. At this point EJ is the only viable option on the roster. As Rex and Whaley have said, they will be scanning all available sources to find a better option or atleast another option to come in and compete. I personally like EJ and still feel like he can develop into a quality starter. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. I would be thrilled if the Bills can go out and get a legitimate upgrade at the position and have a playoff ready QB, sadly I don't know if that guy will be available. The available options have been hashed and rehashed on here over and over. Every one of them has warts. Unless Manning gets cut and we can sign him for a year or two, I think we are going to have to bring in another project (Sanchez, Mallet, Locker, etc) and a draft choice and let them compete. Hopefully one of them steps up and takes the reins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) It's certainly a possibility and we can't rule that out. I've said before that Marrone likely ruined EJ and his development for two years by having him try to be something he wasn't right away and getting in his head too much about taking the safe play or not trying to make plays with his feet. He's a project but did the last two years do more harm than good? I believe they did. Roman and Lee may have to break him down in order to build him back up again. EJ really needs to stop being so robotic and mechanical and just let his natural athletic ability and instincts take over. Just look at this video from 2011 and notice how fluid and natural he looks dropping back and climbing the pocket. Compare that to how stiff and robotic he looked once Marrone got his hands on him. This is a case where I think too much coaching got the worst of him. hard to believe that's him at all especially on the running plays Edited January 20, 2015 by CNY315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hey look! It's another "EJ SUCKS" vs. "YOU HATERS MUST DIE!" thread. How interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8prisoner Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ej looked promising in a few games before he got hit and hurt .. Impressive actually . This year he looked scared and slow , no confidence . Like grigs of sabres before he got sent back down to q .. Hopefully this year he has good competition and either wins the job or takes the job in relief . It's hard to predict if a guy will grow pair and believe in himself for real not just mouthing bs words . Great to have as a backup and I like ryan calling him out about being his college self and running . This backs off the rushers and gives him a little room. Some respect to use that strong arm . Like it or not the guy doesn't want the ball in his hands for the win. It's coaching and the hesitation he got from being injured or whatever . Whoever made him skittish and messed with his mechanics may have ruined a kid that already had shaky accuracy and a polite belief in himself . I hope he does it . I hate to prejudice but a lot of black qbs seem to have the same issue of compounding mistakes, no core belief or too confident . He seems more like Russell Wilson without the never give up attitude .. Ej like geno smith needs others approval . Luck could have the whole team hate him and still believe in himself . I think it's more nurture and socio econOmic than jimmy the Greek genetics, my apologies if that observation seems biased other than a matter of fact truth .. He has good character but he has to grab that fuggin job and kick anyone's ass who tries to lead His team .. I don't think he ll do it , despite his size he seems meek as a leader . He has as high an upside as anyone in the draft aside from attention to detail accuracy and that winners attitude. The press conferences alone are enough to put on the scout team . He actually believes he is good by taking no responsibility or parroting coach speak until he has to show it on the field and wilts .. It's a shame .. Has a cannon if he thru it on instinct w no doubt . He clearly has the talent. Well bangrang Already said all that above with the video , if I had read it . I'll read a little before I just write next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It's certainly a possibility and we can't rule that out. I've said before that Marrone likely ruined EJ and his development for two years by having him try to be something he wasn't right away and getting in his head too much about taking the safe play or not trying to make plays with his feet. He's a project but did the last two years do more harm than good? I believe they did. Roman and Lee may have to break him down in order to build him back up again. EJ really needs to stop being so robotic and mechanical and just let his natural athletic ability and instincts take over. Just look at this video from 2011 and notice how fluid and natural he looks dropping back and climbing the pocket. Compare that to how stiff and robotic he looked once Marrone got his hands on him. This is a case where I think too much coaching got the worst of him. Buffalo has never snuffed this version of EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Look back at week 2 of 2013. The guy has ability. The last 3 min of the game shows it. I agree with this. More QBs are ruined by overcoaching than are enhanced by it. The best ones more or less figure it out on their own and are given the freedom to use their talent/skillset to the best of their ability. Imagine Belichick trying to run the read/option with Brady because it's all the rage. EJ needs to not worry about throwing interceptions and just rip that B word in there when it's available. Stop having the guy try and drop the ball into a bucket because he sucks at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I agree with this. More QBs are ruined by overcoaching than are enhanced by it. The best ones more or less figure it out on their own and are given the freedom to use their talent/skillset to the best of their ability. Imagine Belichick trying to run the read/option with Brady because it's all the rage. EJ needs to not worry about throwing interceptions and just rip that B word in there when it's available. Stop having the guy try and drop the ball into a bucket because he sucks at it. Orton got far worse under Marrone and Co. They've dine Manuel no favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Orton got far worse under Marrone and Co. They've dine Manuel no favors. I posted this days ago, and I'm too lay to look it up again The Bills Offense under EJ in 2013 was rated around #22 and under Orton it dropped to around 26th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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