Goodwin is good as gone

[Dragonborn10]

This board should care a lot more about the development of Woods. The Bills need Watkins and Woods to dominate. Throw in a couple of street FA's for the rest.

[Wayne Cubed]

I honestly still do not get the people/fans who would take Chan Gailey back. The guy wanted Spiller but then it took him 2 years to figure out how to use him. He also was dead set on stating Trent Edwards to begin with. In his 3 years as head coach the Bills offense had 6 games where the offense failed to score a TD and 9 games where the offense didn't produce more than 10 points. With Marrone/Hackett the Bills have had 2 games where the offense didn't score and 2 games under 10 points. 1 last year and 1 this year.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[simpleman]

Goodwin has the speed, the hands, the talent to be good. He has the right attitude and works hard. Unfortunately his body just can not handle the abuse required to play in the NFL as a full time WR, or even special teams. He is too "fragile" for the NFL. There is nothing he can do to change that.

 

I would like to have him around next year with another OC and HC to see if he could shine in a limited situational role, if he had the coaches who could find the right way to use his talents. But I'm not sure if this team can afford to do so with it's current leneup and so many other pressing needs. If not, I hope he lands somewhere with the right situation where he could make signifigent contributions to a winning team.

[Coach Tuesday]

its been a lot of offensive guys that are making these comments this year -- bryce brown, mike williams, goodwin, and im not sure if he did but urbik wouldve been justified

 

I posted this in the thigpen thread - but might see more traction here

 

 

its been an odd stretch for managing offensive talent.

 

And as I've said, what you're seeing are blatant symptoms of the coach and the GM not being on the same page with one another. It's bad enough even when you're winning (see SF), but when you aren't winning, there is really only one way this ends.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Coach Tuesday

[mrags]

I honestly still do not get the people/fans who would take Chan Gailey back. The guy wanted Spiller but then it took him 2 years to figure out how to use him. He also was dead set on stating Trent Edwards to begin with. In his 3 years as head coach the Bills offense had 6 games where the offense failed to score a TD and 9 games where the offense didn't produce more than 10 points. With Marrone/Hackett the Bills have had 2 games where the offense didn't score and 2 games under 10 points. 1 last year and 1 this year.

because people are idiots and have short term memories. Someone has posted before that Hackett is actually better than Gailey as far as stats are concerned. Well see this year that his record is better as well.

 

Regardless who he has to work with. Chan was the HC and was able to pick everything he had on that team becaise he and Buddy tight together. But your right, it took him 3 years to figure out to use his first overall pick with the team. A player that he literally gushed over when he took him.

 

To those that think Hackett is gone at the end of the year... Think again. I'll bet a beer at the TBD tailgate next year to anyone that thinks different.

[The Big Cat]

I honestly still do not get the people/fans who would take Chan Gailey back. The guy wanted Spiller but then it took him 2 years to figure out how to use him. He also was dead set on stating Trent Edwards to begin with. In his 3 years as head coach the Bills offense had 6 games where the offense failed to score a TD and 9 games where the offense didn't produce more than 10 points. With Marrone/Hackett the Bills have had 2 games where the offense didn't score and 2 games under 10 points. 1 last year and 1 this year.

 

yeah but Gailey got Spiller into space!!

[NoSaint]

 

 

And as I've said, what you're seeing are blatant symptoms of the coach and the GM not being on the same page with one another. It's bad enough even when you're winning (see SF), but when you aren't winning, there is really only one way this ends.

 

Couple what we see with whaleys comment and. It's hard to dispute your point. I'll also toss in when ej was benched the way marrone went out of his way to. Underscore that it was his call and he told Whaley how things would be rubbed me me funny. A fair setup but an odd spot to get so direct and explicit if there isn't some power struggle (maybe it was just a bad interview but it stood out)

 

We haven't seen any public fighting in nearly 3 months though!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

He has GREAT speed(and just as important, quickness) but he also has excellent hands, route running ability, ability to track the football and body control etc..

 

I've been very critical of his injury prone nature but he has a lot more ability than I anticipated when he was drafted.

 

He should fit in that Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders category but it bears mentioning the Bills aren't the Steelers when it comes to the expectations placed on players by both the organization and their fellow teammates.

 

I agree with the takes that he may not be able to hold up to NFL punishment but I also don't know if he is fully committed to being that kind of player and that may be the issue. I've seen a lack of want-to in his kick returns this year.

I think you'd agree that it wouldn't be wise to give up on him yet.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

And as I've said, what you're seeing are blatant symptoms of the coach and the GM not being on the same page with one another. It's bad enough even when you're winning (see SF), but when you aren't winning, there is really only one way this ends.

he has the same record as Harbaugh

[NoSaint]

he has the same record as Harbaugh

 

Harbaugh: 48-18-1 with a SB appearance

Marrone: 12-15

 

Maybe marrone will rip off a stretch of 36-3-1. He did go 3-1 over that one stretch giving him 1 month over .500 so far in his career.

 

 

But maybe it's the college record of 25-25 that made you feel that way. Harbaugh was only 58-27 there. But maybe marrone was on the verge of a 33-2 run there too.

 

You can like marrone all you want, but the "same record" posts are stretching a bit.

[26CornerBlitz]

Harbaugh: 48-18-1 with a SB appearance

Marrone: 12-15

 

Maybe marrone will rip off a stretch of 36-3-1. He did go 3-1 over that one stretch giving him 1 month over .500 so far in his career.

 

 

But maybe it's the college record of 25-25 that made you feel that way. Harbaugh was only 58-27 there. But maybe marrone was on the verge of a 33-2 run there too.

 

You can like marrone all you want, but the "same record" posts are stretching a bit.

 

He won't survive for enough games to get there. #ContinuityOfFail

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Harbaugh: 48-18-1 with a SB appearance

Marrone: 12-15

 

Maybe marrone will rip off a stretch of 36-3-1. He did go 3-1 over that one stretch giving him 1 month over .500 so far in his career.

 

 

But maybe it's the college record of 25-25 that made you feel that way. Harbaugh was only 58-27 there. But maybe marrone was on the verge of a 33-2 run there too.

 

You can like marrone all you want, but the "same record" posts are stretching a bit.

the poster was referring to this year, as was I. Unless I read it wrong. My apologies. Wow. Edited November 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[NoSaint]

 

 

He won't survive for enough games to get there. #ContinuityOfFail

 

So your pegging 1-3-1 in the final 5, and getting fired right on the verge of a 35 game win streak? Very buffalo!

[26CornerBlitz]

So your pegging 1-3-1 in the final 5, and getting fired right on the verge of a 35 game win streak? Very buffalo!

 

Do I have BBFS?

[NoSaint]

the poster was referring to this year, as was I.

 

I think the poster was referring to harbaugh as a highly successful coach that might not survive long term due to butting heads with his GM. I do not think he was referring to his 2014 record in a vacuum to make that point.

[Kellyto83TD]

I have serious concerns about Whaley after this last draft and the FA handling. Marrone and Hackett both need to be fired on "Black Monday"

[boyst]

I think he is the second most talented WR on the team so IMO it's a big deal that he can't stay on the field. He has the potential to star in the NFL. His disappearance this year has had a negative impact on the offense.

We are also missing Johnson and Graham. They get no love?

 

Both did more then Goodwin LST year.

[The Big Cat]

I have serious concerns about Whaley after this last draft and the FA handling. Marrone and Hackett both need to be fired on "Black Monday"

 

Was it Sammy you're concerned about? Or was it Preston Brown? Oh...wait, I'm sure it's Seantrell Henderson.

 

I can't believe he only found three starters this year.

[mrags]

 

I think you'd agree that it wouldn't be wise to give up on him yet.

yeah. We should sign him to another 3-4 year deal before we realize he just sucks.

 

Edited November 29, 2014 by mrags

[NoSaint]

 

 

Was it Sammy you're concerned about? Or was it Preston Brown? Oh...wait, I'm sure it's Seantrell Henderson.

 

I can't believe he only found three starters this year.

3 day 1 starters. Who knows what the future will hold.

[BmarvB]

He's dangerous when healthy. Problem is, he can't stay healthy and the coaches don't know how to use him right.

[Green Lightning]

... If chan was our OC, I believe we'd be in the playoffs. His offense was better with Donald jones and David Nelson out there.

 

Gotta agree.

[Webster Guy]

ive said this all along, there are ZERO small fast wr's in this league that are durable.

 

never have been, never will. They're fun to watch but they break your heart with all the injuries. Roscoe Parrish is the perfect example. so fun to watch but always hurt.

 

 

[Manther]

while this is true, and I do like both of these players so don't take this as bashing... But pure speed like that Is available every year in the draft. But they need to be able to play smart, tough, football too in addition to running a 40.

Goodwin is more than speed.

[Kelly the Dog]

ive said this all along, there are ZERO small fast wr's in this league that are durable.

 

never have been, never will. They're fun to watch but they break your heart with all the injuries. Roscoe Parrish is the perfect example. so fun to watch but always hurt.

Ty Hilton. Welker. Edelman. Steve Smith. Kerley.

 

Most of Goodwins problems have been hamstrings and concussions which really are not the same things as a small guy whose body cannot take the punishment. I guess it's arguable with concussions but guys of all sizes and surely ability to take punishment get them.

[Big C]

^And lets keep an eye on John Brown too. Working wonders in AZ.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

I think the poster was referring to harbaugh as a highly successful coach that might not survive long term due to butting heads with his GM. I do not think he was referring to his 2014 record in a vacuum to make that point.

 

Correct. To compare Marrone as a coach to Harbaugh is laughable.

[mrags]

 

Ty Hilton. Welker. Edelman. Steve Smith. Kerley.

 

Most of Goodwins problems have been hamstrings and concussions which really are not the same things as a small guy whose body cannot take the punishment. I guess it's arguable with concussions but guys of all sizes and surely ability to take punishment get them.

doing a little bit of research would prove your extremely wrong.

 

Marquise Goodwin-

5'9" 179lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/marquisegoodwin/2539964/profile

 

Steve Smith-

5'9" 195lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/stevesmith/2504595/profile

 

Wes Welker-

5'9" 185lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/weswelker/2505790/profile

 

5-15lbs of solid muscle is quite a bit regardless how insignificant you believe it is.

 

And that's the numbers test. Based in the eye test, if actually offends me to think anyone could imagine that Marquise Goodwin is anywhere near as solid as Steve Smith. Laughable.

[NoSaint]

doing a little bit of research would prove your extremely wrong.

 

Marquise Goodwin-

5'9" 179lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/marquisegoodwin/2539964/profile

 

Steve Smith-

5'9" 195lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/stevesmith/2504595/profile

 

Wes Welker-

5'9" 185lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/weswelker/2505790/profile

 

5-15lbs of solid muscle is quite a bit regardless how insignificant you believe it is.

 

And that's the numbers test. Based in the eye test, if actually offends me to think anyone could imagine that Marquise Goodwin is anywhere near as solid as Steve Smith. Laughable.

 

Bet you didn't know Goodwin was 183 lbs at the combine. And smith 184. (Wiki actually has mg at 192 at the combine but I think that's high based on what I'm seeing elsewhere)

 

You also skipped Ty Hilton who was 183 at the combine.

 

Using the combine as it's likely the only official weight we ever see and atleast centers things up for age differences too

Edited November 29, 2014 by NoSaint

[3rdand12]

you honestly think he's more talented than Woods??? Williams???

 

Are you f%#king high????

 

I'd even say that Hogan has more talent than Goodwin. And I can't stand Hogan.

 

Goodwin is fast. That's it.

Well i dont agree much with this. He is extra extra fast. But he plays hard for the ball he blocks hard and he is no pencil. For his size and speed the kid is jacked.

But I like Hogan too. When used properly. which is part of this dialogue

I am going to side with underutilized. Or not put int the best position to succeed on this one

 

Goodwin has the speed, the hands, the talent to be good. He has the right attitude and works hard. Unfortunately his body just can not handle the abuse required to play in the NFL as a full time WR, or even special teams. He is too "fragile" for the NFL. There is nothing he can do to change that.

 

I would like to have him around next year with another OC and HC to see if he could shine in a limited situational role, if he had the coaches who could find the right way to use his talents. But I'm not sure if this team can afford to do so with it's current leneup and so many other pressing needs. If not, I hope he lands somewhere with the right situation where he could make signifigent contributions to a winning team.

I like the kid too. Edited November 29, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Chuck Schick]

All this talk about putting a guy like Goodwin into the right situation (i.e. Coaching staff)...how many examples are there of this actually happening -and working-in the nfl? Seems like even "bad" coaches can figure out how to use truly good players. Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall have been monsters no matter who is calling the shots on various teams or coaching staffs; TJ Graham, Roscoe Parrish, and guys like him all kind of wallow in mediocrity.

[mrags]

 

 

Bet you didn't know Goodwin was 183 lbs at the combine. And smith 184. (Wiki actually has mg at 192 at the combine but I think that's high based on what I'm seeing elsewhere)

 

You also skipped Ty Hilton who was 183 at the combine.

 

Using the combine as it's likely the only official weight we ever see and atleast centers things up for age differences too

I didn't add TY Hilton because I used 2 WRs that have proven to be good over extended careers. The jury is still out on Hilton. And besides, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

I don't believe the combine info one bit. Case in point- Aaron Maybin dropped everything he was doing to gain weight for the combine and gained 25lbs. It meant nothing other than a bunch of scouts measuring them for a weekend.

 

Fwiw, you can say you only go by their combine weight because it is the only real "true weight". Other than why I explained you shouldn't pay any attention to that weight, is the fact that I pulled my weights right from NFL.com

 

And my last point. If you can honestly say you've both of them play and both of their bodies and you actually think Marquise Goodwin is even close to as big as Steve Smith, you need to get your eyes checked.

[GG]

All this talk about putting a guy like Goodwin into the right situation (i.e. Coaching staff)...how many examples are there of this actually happening -and working-in the nfl? Seems like even "bad" coaches can figure out how to use truly good players. Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall have been monsters no matter who is calling the shots on various teams or coaching staffs; TJ Graham, Roscoe Parrish, and guys like him all kind of wallow in mediocrity.

 

Uhm, Brandon Marshall was a spectacular flameout in Miami. I bet you forgot he played there.

[Kelly the Dog]

doing a little bit of research would prove your extremely wrong.

 

Marquise Goodwin-

5'9" 179lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/marquisegoodwin/2539964/profile

 

Steve Smith-

5'9" 195lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/stevesmith/2504595/profile

 

Wes Welker-

5'9" 185lbs

http://www.nfl.com/player/weswelker/2505790/profile

 

5-15lbs of solid muscle is quite a bit regardless how insignificant you believe it is.

 

And that's the numbers test. Based in the eye test, if actually offends me to think anyone could imagine that Marquise Goodwin is anywhere near as solid as Steve Smith. Laughable.

Oh c'mon. You said small fast guys and I listed a bunch of small fast guys off the top of my head. TY Hilton is one of the best receivers in the league and he's the same size. 5 pounds more and what, Wes Welker isn't a small guy?

 

And again, his problem has been more of the pulled hamstring issue.

 

I'll give you Steve Smith, because he is built very strong. I have used that same argument with Russell Wilson. He's short but he's extremely well built and strong.

 

But TY Hilton and Welker and Edelman are small and withstand the punishment. Goodwin is built well, too. He doesn't look frail at all. And the injuries he has got have not been from big hits, except to the noggin.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[GG]

Desean Jackson 5'10" 178

 

Doug Baldwin 5'10" 189

 

[NoSaint]

I didn't add TY Hilton because I used 2 WRs that have proven to be good over extended careers. The jury is still out on Hilton. And besides, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

I don't believe the combine info one bit. Case in point- Aaron Maybin dropped everything he was doing to gain weight for the combine and gained 25lbs. It meant nothing other than a bunch of scouts measuring them for a weekend.

 

Fwiw, you can say you only go by their combine weight because it is the only real "true weight". Other than why I explained you shouldn't pay any attention to that weight, is the fact that I pulled my weights right from NFL.com

 

And my last point. If you can honestly say you've both of them play and both of their bodies and you actually think Marquise Goodwin is even close to as big as Steve Smith, you need to get your eyes checked.

 

You do realize weights at nfl.com arent official at all? They are bordering on made up, really. that's the only reason I took the combine. It's the one public weighing all guys go through.

 

And that Aaron maybin TANKED his speed and agility drills with the extra weight. Not the case with MG (or the others)

 

And Steve smith is 10 years longer in an nfl locker room and weight room. So it makes sense he'd be more built than a track kid 18 months into nfl style weights.

 

But you've decided the guy has no potential or ability and aren't going to allow anyone to crack that door open so... Oh well... All I'll say is the book isn't finished being written. The decks stacked against him at this point but it wouldn't be crazy for him to produce in this league.

 

184 lbs Steve smith with 10 catches in his rookie year probably wouldn't have gotten a lot of love from you, would he?

Edited November 29, 2014 by NoSaint

[Chuck Schick]

 

 

Uhm, Brandon Marshall was a spectacular flameout in Miami. I bet you forgot he played there.

 

2010 Miami Dolphins. 86 receptions 1014 yds in 14 games (Chad Henne at QB)

2011 Miami Dolphins 81 receptions 1214 yds in 16 games ( Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB)

Edited November 29, 2014 by Chuck Schick

[4merper4mer]

Activate Goodwin, gets hurt his first snap for the 3rd time this season, then not activating him is criminal? He can't stay on the field. He's a waste of a spot.

 

 

 

Mrs. Marrone you should really stop reading the posts on here. Your skin is thinner than your husband's.

 

There is a 53 man roster for NFL teams. Marrone seem to put a limitation of about 40 on himself by alienating 12 and needing a kickoff specialist.

[GG]

 

 

2010 Miami Dolphins. 86 receptions 1014 yds in 14 games (Chad Henne at QB)

2011 Miami Dolphins 81 receptions 1214 yds in 16 games ( Matt Moore and Chad Henne at QB)

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

 

http://www.phinzrage.com/forums/index.php?topic=6566.0

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/16/marshall-remains-happy-he-was-traded-from-miami-to-chicago/

[Solomon Grundy]

 

Ty Hilton. Welker. Edelman. Steve Smith. Kerley.

 

Most of Goodwins problems have been hamstrings and concussions which really are not the same things as a small guy whose body cannot take the punishment. I guess it's arguable with concussions but guys of all sizes and surely ability to take punishment get them.

 

Couldn't have said it better!