Is It Time To Start EJ, Again?

[bigK14094]

EJ, no way. Give him another training camp.....and, we know, he does not enjoy the support of the veterans on the squad, especially in the receiving core who know how bad his arm is. As for Orton, he is better than his current detractors say, and not as good as his major advocates say. But, he is better than EJ by a lot. The Bills at 5-5 are not out of it, just really a long shot. If EJ comes in and looks terrible again, he would be done in Buffalo....not sure its time for thay yet....he will get season three says me. After that, adious if he isn't cutting it big time....no 5 year audition like Losman got.

 

As for Gragg mentioned in other threads....I am a total non believer....drops way to many balls...not in any way the receiver that Chandler is.....and, way to small to block effectively.....Chandler is only half effective, Gragg no blocking skill. Gragg is really almost an H back....who has questionable hands.

Edited November 16, 2014 by bigK14094

[machine gun kelly]

I agree. There is no way EJ could have improved that much in 6 weeks. Even if you wanted to write off the season and get EJ experience, that means Marrone, Whaley, and Brandon are so confident in their position, they won't suffer repercussions from the Pegulas and whoever they hire as a consultant.

 

No way. coaches are working every year to save their job and reputations so they can get their next gig. Those guys will do whatever it takes to save their jobs. Even if Whaley and Brandon feel safe, Marrone knows he's at risk.

 

If he thinks Orton can win him even one or two more games than EJ, he'll never risk it. Orton would have to lay eggs the next two weeks and maybe when they know they are out, he can try and prove to the Pegulas he's willing to see if EJ can improve.

 

Hackett no matter what will get whacked so he might as well put his house on the market now. He'll either be relegated to a WR coach,or go back to some small college as an OC.

[C.Biscuit97]

No, we need to keep developing Kelly Holcomb. Clearly, the .500 record he has led us to and the past 2 games with a td give us the best chance to win.

[Prickly Pete]

I don't think Marrone is going to be judged strictly by his record. Like 8-8 = fired, 9-7 = retained. That's way too simplistic.

 

Were I the owner, I would firstly want to see how the team responds from here on out. Secondly, I want to see the team get better. I wanna see improvement in the areas where they are struggling. I wanna see that the staff can correct problems. For instance, if they are able to make a big leap in Red Zone production....if they get the running game going...

 

If they just continue to suck, and tread water....fired

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't think Marrone is going to be judged strictly by his record. Like 8-8 = fired, 9-7 = retained. That's way too simplistic.

 

Were I the owner, I would firstly want to see how the team responds from here on out. Secondly, I want to see the team get better. I wanna see improvement in the areas where they are struggling. I wanna see that the staff can correct problems. For instance, if they are able to make a big leap in Red Zone production....if they get the running game going...

 

If they just continue to suck, and tread water....fired

 

There have just been too many other things that looks like poor coaching.

 

His hissy fit in training camp.

Hiring Hackett to be both the OC and QB coach when he wasn't ready.

Drafting EJ, bailing on him after 14 games, & scoring less with the guy who replaced him.

Jumping offside on 4th downs.

Too many dumb penalties.

His 4th down decisions.

 

This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world.

[Prickly Pete]

There have just been too many other things that looks like poor coaching.

 

His hissy fit in training camp.

Hiring Hackett to be both the OC and QB coach when he wasn't ready.

Drafting EJ, bailing on him after 14 games, & scoring less with the guy who replaced him.

Jumping offside on 4th downs.

Too many dumb penalties.

His 4th down decisions.

 

This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world.

 

I don't don't disagree, he might already have lost the job. But I don't believe that there is a predetermined number of wins/losses that gets him fired/retained.

Edited November 16, 2014 by HoF Watkins

[Fan in Chicago]

 

This is a very talented team that is poorly coached. A new coach could come here and make all the difference in the world.

 

I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB.

[Prickly Pete]

I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB.

 

There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management!

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

I agree with the talent part. But without a QB, no coach can take this team anywhere, It would be entirely pointless to 'fire everyone' unless it comes with a good QB.

 

I'd keep all of the defensive coaches.

 

Marrone and Hackett played a huge part in drafting EJ & then bailed on him after 14 games. They turned to a guy 4 other teams didn't want. Surprisingly, this didn't improve things.

 

Marrone is an offensive coach. Our offense is brutal. And if he showed some creativity, it's one thing. He is Dick Jauron with more talent.

 

We can do so much better than Doug Marrone.

 

 

 

There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management!

 

Yup. I was like the biggest defender of Bills coaches in the past. Marrone is terrible on game days. He only wins because we have the best d line in the NFL. And he has nothing to do with that.

[Fan in Chicago]

There are plenty of bad decisions from this staff that have nothing to do with the QB. Game management!

 

You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up.

[Prickly Pete]

You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up.

 

Then maybe that was a fatal mistake. Can't make fatal mistakes...you're fired.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

You have to expect missteps with rookie coaches. The biggest mistake was to get a rookie OC to go with a rookie HC. See how an experienced Schwartz is leading one of the best defenses. If, last year, Marrone was paired with a similarly experienced OC, the results would have been a lot different. So, my point is that Marrone has made mistakes but the lack of QB and poor OC has compounded the problem. If we had both, Marrone's in-game mistakes would have been more than covered up.

 

Marrone hired his inexperience buddy to be the OC and didn't develop the QB he helped select. He shouldn't have to answer for that.

 

IMO, he has completely regressed as a coach this year.

[mdk]

NO!

 

if the kid's got even the slightest chance of turning his game around, Yogi and Boo-Boo will give him little to work with.

in the last two games Orton has been playing as EJ did before being benched, and i don't think it's a coincidence.

let Kyle finish the year, and he and Manuel can return next season with an new coaching staff

 

+1

[yungmack]

I've seen enough of Orton and with basically no shot at playoffs now there is no reason to not start EJ rest of season.

 

In saying that I highly doubt Marrone makes the change anytime soon

This is absolutely one of those times the GM should make the decision. He is responsible for the future of the team and if DW believes the development of EJ is more important than pretending the Bills are going to somehow, someway make the playoffs with Orton, then he should order Marrone to play him. If Marrone gives him some shite about it, then begin the search for a new HC immediately. This might also be the time to try some of the younger guys out, as others have suggested.

[Fan in San Diego]

Marrone hired his inexperience buddy to be the OC and didn't develop the QB he helped select. He shouldn't have to answer for that.

 

IMO, he has completely regressed as a coach this year.

 

+1 Hard to argue with you on that. Hackett was a bad hire.

[Nitro]

Orton is it for the Bills. Marrone maybe be looking for a new job and once again the Bills coud be in rebuilding mode. EJ draft pick was not bad but it was forced because Fitz was not the answer. 11 QBs selected in that draft and none have done a thing. EJ will need an awesome off season and correct his many shortcomings. The future in bleak if you do not have a solid QB and the draft class for next Spring is not all that promising. Wait and see.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Nitro

[CodeMonkey]

We can do so much better than Doug Marrone.

Ahhhh you see, that's just it. Can the Bills do better? Like whom for example that would come to a team with no 1st round pick and no QB?

Anyone can fire a HC. But it is stupid unless you have someone better in the wings.

[dayman]

Ahhhh you see, that's just it. Can the Bills do better? Like whom for example that would come to a team with no 1st round pick and no QB?

Anyone can fire a HC. But it is stupid unless you have someone better in the wings.

 

I think it is fair to say the Bills are as marketable as they've been in quite some time. This roster could turn into a good team in the mind of a guy with a big enough ego to be a big shot head coach.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

All of this really doesn't matter much. We need to remember why the move was made to begin with; Doug Marrone had the Bills at .500 and was coaching for his job due to change of ownership. Now in week 11 , he is still .500 and there are only six games left. He's going to stick with Orton. There's a better chance of him snapping out of a two game funk that EJ coming in and sparking the Offense. He hasn't played in over a month. I'd consider going back to EJ at some point , but Marrone will not. He's going to sink or swim with Orton until the Bills are mathematically eliminated.

well then it is sink because 3% chance is all but over

[CodeMonkey]

I think it is fair to say the Bills are as marketable as they've been in quite some time. This roster could turn into a good team in the mind of a guy with a big enough ego to be a big shot head coach.

The marketable point is quite true, particularly when talking about the defense. But sadly that is saying nothing given the past 14 years. An experienced successful coach will not want to try and draft a good QB, then take the time to groom said QB. Too much of a gamble and would take too long. That's one reason the Bills have had Jauron, Gailey, and now Marrone. You take what you can get.

Edited November 17, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[K-9]

I don't think Marrone is going to be judged strictly by his record. Like 8-8 = fired, 9-7 = retained. That's way too simplistic.

 

Were I the owner, I would firstly want to see how the team responds from here on out. Secondly, I want to see the team get better. I wanna see improvement in the areas where they are struggling. I wanna see that the staff can correct problems. For instance, if they are able to make a big leap in Red Zone production....if they get the running game going...

 

If they just continue to suck, and tread water....fired

 

Based on how they have responded to every big test since the Pegulas were announced as owners, I gotta believe they will be looking at this closely as well. They have failed miserably in every key game and that's usually a sign of a team that's not prepared and that's usually on the coaches. It's great that they engineered last second wins vs. Detroit and Minnesota and it's great that they were able to take advantage of turnovers to beat an inferior Jest team, but lost in that euphoria is the way they laid eggs in every big game and that's a big concern from where I sit.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 17, 2014 by K-9

[BuffaloBaumer]

The second loss #7 hits the books, it is pointless to have Orton in there.

[Dorkington]

We already know how we respond to pressure, and it's a complete folding. Every important game this year, we've completely choked.

 

So yes, start EJ for the rest of the year. Figure out what you have. So you know if you need to take a QB in the 2nd round or not.

[26CornerBlitz]

@buffalobills

Doug Marrone: "Right now I'm sticking with Kyle (Orton), we'll go with who gives us the best chance to win"

[BuffaloBaumer]

@buffalobills

Doug Marrone: "Right now I'm sticking with Kyle (Orton), we'll go with who gives us the best chance to win"

 

Interesting quote here....could it possibly be......hmmmm............ coaching?

"The Bills are 3-3 in games started by Orton, after going 2-2 in the games started byE.J. Manuel before the switch to the bearded one.

They were averaging 19.8 points and 320.8 yards per game in the first four, then 20.2 and 322.2 since.

Looking at those numbers, it’s almost as if the problem isn’t the quarterback."

[rsxfirefighter]

Interesting quote here....could it possibly be......hmmmm............ coaching?

 

"The Bills are 3-3 in games started by Orton, after going 2-2 in the games started byE.J. Manuel before the switch to the bearded one.

They were averaging 19.8 points and 320.8 yards per game in the first four, then 20.2 and 322.2 since.

Looking at those numbers, it’s almost as if the problem isn’t the quarterback."

SSShhh....stop with the stats and just assume "EJ Sucks" as the masses are trying to implant into us. :-P

 

I dont see how Orton gives us any better chance than EJ. Let the kid play and seal his fate..

[FireChan]

 

SSShhh....stop with the stats and just assume "EJ Sucks" as the masses are trying to implant into us. :-P

 

I dont see how Orton gives us any better chance than EJ. Let the kid play and seal his fate..

 

Those numbers aren't even passing numbers. Why would they matter?

[papazoid]

orton isn't even mediocre.

 

but orton is still much better than EJ who is currently god awful.

 

 

neither will ever be a franchise QB.

[CodeMonkey]

Interesting quote here....could it possibly be......hmmmm............ coaching?

 

"The Bills are 3-3 in games started by Orton, after going 2-2 in the games started byE.J. Manuel before the switch to the bearded one.

They were averaging 19.8 points and 320.8 yards per game in the first four, then 20.2 and 322.2 since.

Looking at those numbers, it’s almost as if the problem isn’t the quarterback."

Or, both QBs suck equally. In any event coaching is at least as big of a problem as the QB, and the OL is almost as much.

[Security]

21 straight drives with no touchdown for Orton

[Alphadawg7]

Interesting quote here....could it possibly be......hmmmm............ coaching?

 

"The Bills are 3-3 in games started by Orton, after going 2-2 in the games started byE.J. Manuel before the switch to the bearded one.

They were averaging 19.8 points and 320.8 yards per game in the first four, then 20.2 and 322.2 since.

Looking at those numbers, it’s almost as if the problem isn’t the quarterback."

 

Yeah way to ignore the more important facts. Orton and this offense average 15 points per game outside the Jets game. The ONE...ONE...I say again...ONE game agasint the Jets has grossly skewed all the numbers. A game where our Defense got us 6 turnovers...how many more times will that happen? And in those FIVE games he has put up 6 TDs and 5 Turnovers. He has averaging almost a 1:1 ratio of TD:Turnover in every start but one. Oh yes, he's doing marvelous. And lets not forget 21 straight drives with no TDs.

 

Yes the game happened, but so did the FIVE other games where our offense has averaged 15 points per game under Orton. We averaged 21.2 last year with a Rookie and twice hurt QB in EJ, a guy who should never have played a down in Tuel, and a 3rd string QB in Thad.

 

We are WORSE in every relevant offensive category this year than last, including PPG, YPG, Red Zone %, First Downs, etc etc.

 

Orton has started 60% of the games this year and our offense is worse in every offensive category. We have more talent on the offense this year, less injuries, and more experience. And consider our first 2 weeks our offense was solid and pretty good. In the other 8 it has been mostly bad, 6 of which were started by Orton.

 

Oh those pesky facts...the problem with this board is they see near 300 yards and assume its a good game. 2 good drives can get you 50-60% of those yards. You can suck the rest the game and still get to near 300. It means nothing. And thats what happens EVERY WEEK. 2 good drives, usually one early, one late...and nothing but short drives and 3 and outs in the middle. Great, good for Orton, he gets near 300 yards except he puts no points on the board, doesn't convert 3rd downs, doesn't convert in the red zone, and does very little to help us win. In fact, our losses since him taking over, every one, can be pinned on the offense.

 

orton isn't even mediocre.

 

but orton is still much better than EJ who is currently god awful.

 

 

neither will ever be a franchise QB.

 

If the EJ that played weeks 3 and 4 is the real EJ, then I agree with you. However, I think EJ still has some potential. His main problem was actually very correctable. His problem was he played afraid to make a mistake rather than letting loose. Its like when you go play Golf and you sit there addressing the ball ready to swing and all you do is think of all the complicated things to do and not do in your swing to get a good shot. It distracts you and usually doesn't work out. Now compare that to just getting up there and having confidence in your swing where you line your shot up and take a confident swing...no matter your skill level, this is almost always a better result.

 

EJ needs to stop over thinking and playing to cautious. I think its great he wants to protect the ball, but he also has to let his balls drop and be a man out there and take some chances. He also recognized this when he was benched and said he needs to stop being so careful and let loose. The kid has a lot of physical intangibles, if he can let go and play with more aggressiveness this kid could still be good. Evident is in the fact that he has 3 fourth Qtr comebacks in 14 games. When the game is on the line he played better because he had to take those chances versus having the option to not take a chance.

 

That is why I think this kid still might be able to be a good QB. Now, if he can't shake that, the kid is done as an NFL starter, no doubt.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Alphadawg7

[26CornerBlitz]

@JoeBuscaglia

"Right now," Bills' Marrone sticking with Orton "this week" http://bit.ly/1yeetYN

[Formerly Allan in MD]

If there's still a glimmer, no.