The Underdog Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 14 years and counting... and games like this early on in the season is why our games are usually meaningless after thanksgiving especially because our defense played lights out... they dont deserve that outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 How did we loss to houston. They ran 3 plays inside the red zone all day and turned the ball over 3 times. I say bring in Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 I hear ya. I can live with the mental mistakes. I can't live with being unable to throw a simple curl or out. The accuracy issues have reached points of epic panic. And, here, we all thought the reason we got rid of Fitz was to get a young gun who could "make all the throws." But, Orton can't be the answer, at least long term. It's a really bad dilemma. It's why they signed Orton to a 2 year deal...if he has to take over, they can't draft a QB next year with no 1st round pick so they would start Orton and draft one in 2016... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Or maybe provide him with a game plan that doesn't require him to drop back to pass 44 times with a shaky line, and facing the Tasmanian Devil of DE's in the league. Particularly when the Texan's D gave up nearly 200 yards rushing to a pretty bad Giants team last week. I pin this one on the Offensive coaches. . . . Poor plan poorly executed. . . . The gameplan is based on Ejs strengths the plays the coaches feel he is most comfortable running . They are not airing it out because thats not Ejs strength but the defense is playing for the run AT ALL TIMES so they ask him to complete a series of short high percentage passes in order to move the chains and keep the defense off balanced and he is struggling completing basis timing routes . The opponents defense like our offensive coaches has film and they can see exactly what EJ does and does not do well. Their goal as i said last week and will now repeat is to take away the run , limit turnovers get a lead ,and force EJ to have to throw . The fact that they gave us the ball 3 times and still won the game is a testament that they knew exactly how to beat us . Its not about throwing for 400 yards its about making the passes that make defenses pay for doubting you can do it in the first place . The last time I heard this much chatter about a Qb not being able to throw was Tebow like with tebow there is only so much game planning to get around a Qbs inability to throw accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Orton has spent more time doing his job than each of the following have in their respective jobs (NFL level): our OC our HC our GM our QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel is not the the entire Bills team. Was he covering or was that Corey Graham? Did he forget to block Watt or was that Seantrel? Did he miss the PI call on Woods? Those sound like excuses, Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The gameplan is based on Ejs strengths the plays the coaches feel he is most comfortable running . They are not airing it out because thats not Ejs strength but the defense is playing for the run AT ALL TIMES so they ask him to complete a series of short high percentage passes in order to move the chains and keep the defense off balanced and he is struggling completing basis timing routes . The opponents defense like our offensive coaches has film and they can see exactly what EJ does and does not do well. Their goal as i said last week and will now repeat is to take away the run , limit turnovers get a lead ,and force EJ to have to throw . The fact that they gave us the ball 3 times and still won the game is a testament that they knew exactly how to beat us . Its not about throwing for 400 yards its about making the passes that make defenses pay for doubting you can do it in the first place . The last time I heard this much chatter about a Qb not being able to throw was Tebow like with tebow there is only so much game planning to get around a Qbs inability to throw accurately. What are his strengths? I am asking seriously here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 So which one of our disaster went on to be a franchise QB elsewhere? was being funny (or trying to). Listing the "excuses" for keeping EJ over Orton at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I hear ya. I can live with the mental mistakes. I can't live with being unable to throw a simple curl or out. The accuracy issues have reached points of epic panic. And, here, we all thought the reason we got rid of Fitz was to get a young gun who could "make all the throws." But, Orton can't be the answer, at least long term. It's a really bad dilemma. I think the right thing to do here is give EJ one more game (or at least a start) to see how he rebounds from this......another performance like today and Orton goes in......and stays in barring injury. This team is too good in other positions to get drug down by one position like this. Then in the offseason you have a real QB competition (and you go get another REAL QB with talent to compete in it).......I am starting to think not bringing in legit competition for EJ was a huge mistake.......if he has this fragile of confidence it could be a root problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If EJ showed any signs of promise, I'd say keep him in. But maybe he needs time to sit and watch a pro QB. Orton is not a pro bowler, but he's capable of winning. EJ is just a complete disaster at this point. I have no confidence anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Allowing QB's to throw hot air balloons into coverage and awarding them first downs via penalty at the end of the game is a very bad look. Corey Graham interfered similarly at the end of regulation in the opener and also no flag. The NFL has always tucked the flags late in games. See the SF/Balt Super Bowl. That's why it was such an outrage back in 1998 when the refs gave the Pats that win in Foxboro on a Hail Mary PI call. I can't watch yet another performance like that so I will be DVR'ing that Detroit game. If I can't watch it I don't know how Marrone can. There really isn't time for this staff to give EJ 30 starts. He's a mess right now. Maybe 3-4 years holding a clipboard and working on his mechanics and mental approach and he will be able to step back into an NFL lineup but right now he's dying out there. It's not like he's just throwing too many interceptions or the kind of mistakes you expect from a young QB.....he literally can't throw a football. It's almost so bad that you have to wonder if he's getting the yips. I've always felt that giving him actual physical competion would be good because it would help prevent him from over-thinking the task at hand. Great post. Knoblach territory, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If EJ showed any signs of promise, I'd say keep him in. But maybe he needs time to sit and watch a pro QB. Orton is not a pro bowler, but he's capable of winning. EJ is just a complete disaster at this point. I have no confidence anymore. This is where I am too. Even JP had flashes of being able to play in the NFL. EJ can't make simple throws or decisions. I think Whaley is a helluva talent evaluator but this one draft pick will cost him his job because when you draft a QB high you hitch your wagon to his career and EJ is a train wreck. I wish he wasn't but he is and he was the reason this team lost today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 14 years and counting... and games like this early on in the season is why our games are usually meaningless after thanksgiving especially because our defense played lights out... they dont deserve that outcome The defense that busted to give up the Hopkins TD, or the defense that didn't touch a receiver while he was down and extended a late 4th quarter possession for the Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Houston literally did nothing on offense other than 1 pass to Hopkins for a TD, couldn't run at all... Manuel cost us the game with his inability to see wide open receivers, poor throws when he did see wide open receivers, and as usual the offense had no flow for most of the game... At some point we need to pull the plug on this experiment, he just isn't getting it and is killing our good play on defense and special teams by handing the ball right back to them with good field position after going 3 and out... I mean if our offense did anything the last 2 weeks we could have won the SD game because the D really clamped down in the 2nd half and virtually any other QB today against Houston would have had us easily winning by 10+ points... Very frustrating to finally be in a position where the rest of the team is good enough to do some damage and the QB keeps holding us back... Agreed on all points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I agree. The rest of the team is good enough. The quarterback is not good enough. Inaccurate. Doesn't see the whole field. Can't read defenses. We haven't had a good QB since Flutie. I would give him one more half. Then turn to Orton. just curious - why one more half? Seems random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I think last week was more inexcusable. SD was a "vanilla" loss. This week, I think it was excusable. Young QB threw a pick-six. It happens to the best when learning. I can live with this week's loss. Edited September 29, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 What are his strengths? I am asking seriously here. I'll bite: (1) avoids giving the ball away -- not just avoiding interceptions, but also avoids the strip sack thing. (2) pretty good with the play action/ball fakes. (3) (related to (2) makes good decisions on the read option -- in the first couple weeks we saw the EJ TD on the read option keeper/bootleg left, and a really nice FJ run up the middle when EJ saw a lane. Not a whole lot there, but that's the good stuff ... is it enough to build on? That's the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 This is the voice of reason. I think everyone knows that. But the poor play today pushes all of us to desperate thoughts. Let's just hope that EJ starts getting better and more consistent. Hope is not a strategy - please see my post here @ 11:19pm http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/171419-a-few-thoughts-about-the-game-in-no-particular-order/page__st__140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyAbounds Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 It might not be the best idea to throw Orton to the Lions in his first game. EJ's confidence is already shot, so let him take his lumps against Detroit and have Orton start, and hopefully beat, the Pats at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel has had time enough to throw, but seems to hold the ball forever at times.He simply has no vision, no sense of timing, and is brutally inaccurate too often. Sure he makes a nice throw now and again, but those are far and few between all the pitiful throws. Has he ever stepped into a throw? We lose the game against the Bears if our WR's Woods and Williams don't make the acrobatic catches they did. Our WR's must be getting extremely frustrated. With that said, Hackett must be about the most incompetent OC around. His play calling looks like the plays are drawn from a hat instead of having specific purpose. If ever there was a game that called for pounding the rock........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I'll bite: (1) avoids giving the ball away -- not just avoiding interceptions, but also avoids the strip sack thing. (2) pretty good with the play action/ball fakes. (3) (related to (2) makes good decisions on the read option -- in the first couple weeks we saw the EJ TD on the read option keeper/bootleg left, and a really nice FJ run up the middle when EJ saw a lane. Not a whole lot there, but that's the good stuff ... is it enough to build on? That's the question. I would say (1) he's too timid and because he has no ability to throw down field (see the pass to Williams when EJ couldn't keep the damn ball in the field of play) he holds the ball too long and then delivers every single pass late. (2) the play action doesn't work because nobody is afraid that EJ will beat you through the air. (3) I counted at least 4 plays where keeping it on the read option was the better decision. How many times this season has he actually kept the ball and ran? I think 2? He's afraid to get hit. I had great seats yesterday when it came to watching plays unfold. Houston was giving zero help over the top and letting the Bills receivers go one on one all day and EJ made one good throw. That's it. Just one. He's not good enough to play in the NFL. Edited September 29, 2014 by SACTOBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Why? You think Orton is good enough to win 8 or 9 games in the next 12? A career 35-35 record guy? Assuming Orton can do that, what are our chances of winning a playoff game, likely a road game at Indy or New England, San Diego, Denver, Pittsburgh or Baltimore? This season isn't about Orton, never was never will be. 100% correct. This season, for better or for worse, is about seeing if Manuel can be a capable starter in the NFL. They NEED to find that out to determine a path forward, i.e. do they need to make QB their primary focus this off season or not. Right now, and particularly after that pathetic performance by Manuel yesterday, it is easy to let your heart make the decision to start Orton. But that resolves nothing other than appeasing some homer fans bloodlust. They HAVE to find out. And after only 4 games this season they do not know yet. So untie your panties and unclench your ass cheeks everyone, grow a pair and ride it out. And make no mistake, it is going to be a bumpy and probably ugly ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 100% correct. This season, for better or for worse, is about seeing if Manuel can be a capable starter in the NFL. They NEED to find that out to determine a path forward, i.e. do they need to make QB their primary focus this off season or not. Right now, and particularly after that pathetic performance by Manuel yesterday, it is easy to let your heart make the decision to start Orton. But that resolves nothing other than appeasing some homer fans bloodlust. They HAVE to find out. And after only 4 games this season they do not know yet. So untie your panties and unclench your ass cheeks everyone, grow a pair and ride it out. And make no mistake, it is going to be a bumpy and probably ugly ride. 15 consecutive years of this has worn everyone's patience beyond thin. Every throw Manuel makes looks like a lob, a floater. He was criticized by Kelly for not stepping into his throws and firing the ball. He makes flat throws when he needs to drop it in. He has been late on way too many throws and when he does pull the trigger, it's anyone's guess where it will go. Our WR's have been hung out so often that they must be beyond sick of Manuel. It is tremendously difficult watching him play. I have hoped that the light would go on for Manuel but he looks as clueless as ever and mostly downright pitiful. I'd say the book on Manuel is closing very fast and it's not looking good. In his defense, he gets almost no help from Hackett who is nothing more than Marone's sad sack pal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel is staying in for the rest of the season barring injury. We're stuck with him and frankly I'd be more pissed if they benched him for Orton. He sucks. He will always suck. But in the infinitesimal chance that he might rise from the quagmire of sucking, it's not going to happen from the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I'll bite: (1) avoids giving the ball away -- not just avoiding interceptions, but also avoids the strip sack thing. (2) pretty good with the play action/ball fakes. (3) (related to (2) makes good decisions on the read option -- in the first couple weeks we saw the EJ TD on the read option keeper/bootleg left, and a really nice FJ run up the middle when EJ saw a lane. Not a whole lot there, but that's the good stuff ... is it enough to build on? That's the question. 1.) This at the expense of actually moving the ball effectively. So I am not sure it is a strength 2.) With our run game every QB back there should be good with play action 3.)This is simply not true. He leaves large amounts of yardage unclaimed because he does not keep the ball which renders the option virtually useless. I am not trashing him I really want to know ... outside of his intangibles. I fear they have coached out all of what made him any good in college so as to avoid mistakes, Edited September 29, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel is staying in for the rest of the season barring injury. We're stuck with him and frankly I'd be more pissed if they benched him for Orton. He sucks. He will always suck. But in the infinitesimal chance that he might rise from the quagmire of sucking, it's not going to happen from the bench. I'm pretty much in agreement with this take... Outside of 2009-2010 in Denver Orton has been pretty pedestrian...In fact if you remove those two years from his career he's 42 TD's to 38 INT's...56.8% completions in 1226 attempts...Not exactly the kind of QB that is going to lead you to the promised land... Now...If he can revert to the way he played in those two years in Denver then he's unquestionably an upgrade to EJ...But you have to wonder...The Bears and Broncos both gave up on the guy as a starter...I think as a back-up he's probably one of the better 2nd QB's in the league...Other than that I'm not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I'm pretty much in agreement with this take... Outside of 2009-2010 in Denver Orton has been pretty pedestrian...In fact if you remove those two years from his career he's 42 TD's to 38 INT's...56.8% completions in 1226 attempts...Not exactly the kind of QB that is going to lead you to the promised land... Now...If he can revert to the way he played in those two years in Denver then he's unquestionably an upgrade to EJ...But you have to wonder...The Bears and Broncos both gave up on the guy as a starter...I think as a back-up he's probably one of the better 2nd QB's in the league...Other than that I'm not so sure... If you are going to start removing stats why not remove the stats from when he was the backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 100% correct. This season, for better or for worse, is about seeing if Manuel can be a capable starter in the NFL. They NEED to find that out to determine a path forward, i.e. do they need to make QB their primary focus this off season or not. Right now, and particularly after that pathetic performance by Manuel yesterday, it is easy to let your heart make the decision to start Orton. But that resolves nothing other than appeasing some homer fans bloodlust. They HAVE to find out. And after only 4 games this season they do not know yet. So untie your panties and unclench your ass cheeks everyone, grow a pair and ride it out. And make no mistake, it is going to be a bumpy and probably ugly ride. I agree that this season was largely about finding out if EJ is the guy. The returns so far have been pretty disastrous, of course. While there is still hope that EJ will turn things around, I don't think he gets much more time before the start of the Orton Era--one or two games, at the most. The reason is that there are 52 other players on this team and it is simply not fair to them to throw away an entire season on an experiment to see if EJ has what it takes, when so far he has not demonstrated the fundamental stills to succeed in the NFL. As many have pointed out, this is a talented roster that might be able to win 10 games (and possibly the deeply flawed AFC East) with even competent, Orton-level quarterbacking. Players like Mario, Kyle, Fred Jackson and others are playing their hearts out and it is all being pissed away by atrocious QB play. Don't those players (not to mention the WRs who are dying on the vine) deserve a chance to make the playoffs for once in their careers? I think the danger if they stick with EJ much longer is that the team will quit on him and perhaps Marrone, too. I doubt these proud and talented professionals want to become cannon fodder in a pointless war to see if EJ can validate the judgment of the front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I agree that this season was largely about finding out if EJ is the guy. The returns so far have been pretty disastrous, of course. While there is still hope that EJ will turn things around, I don't think he gets much more time before the start of the Orton Era--one or two games, at the most. The reason is that there are 52 other players on this team and it is simply not fair to them to throw away an entire season on an experiment to see if EJ has what it takes, when so far he has not demonstrated the fundamental stills to succeed in the NFL. As many have pointed out, this is a talented roster that might be able to win 10 games (and possibly the deeply flawed AFC East) with even competent, Orton-level quarterbacking. Players like Mario, Kyle, Fred Jackson and others are playing their hearts out and it is all being pissed away by atrocious QB play. Don't those players (not to mention the WRs who are dying on the vine) deserve a chance to make the playoffs for once in their careers? I think the danger if they stick with EJ much longer is that the team will quit on him and perhaps Marrone, too. I doubt these proud and talented professionals want to become cannon fodder in a pointless war to see if EJ can validate the judgment of the front office. No matter what, there will be no "Orton Era". If the Bills put Orton in with Manuel healthy it is no more than admitting Manuel is a bust and trying to save their coaching/GM futures by stealing a couple more wins that they would with Manuel. They would already be looking for their next starting QB, if they aren't already. Edited September 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 No matter what, there will be no "Orton Era". If the Bills put Orton in with Manuel healthy it is no more than admitting Manuel is a bust and trying to save their coaching/GM futures by stealing a couple more wins that they would with Manuel. They would already be looking for their next starting QB, if they aren't already. I know. Sarcasm doesn't always come through clearly on a message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I'm pretty much in agreement with this take... Outside of 2009-2010 in Denver Orton has been pretty pedestrian...In fact if you remove those two years from his career he's 42 TD's to 38 INT's...56.8% completions in 1226 attempts...Not exactly the kind of QB that is going to lead you to the promised land... Now...If he can revert to the way he played in those two years in Denver then he's unquestionably an upgrade to EJ...But you have to wonder...The Bears and Broncos both gave up on the guy as a starter...I think as a back-up he's probably one of the better 2nd QB's in the league...Other than that I'm not so sure... The Bears were not a passing team they were a run heavy team that relied on defense and special teams . We dont need a someone to carry the team just someone that can take advantage of the opportunities that are being given and Orton can do that . He was never the guy in Denver or Chicago . he beat out 1st rd pick Grossman to start all of 2008 for the Bears and went 9-6 .He then was traded for Cutler he was not the guy in Denver just a placeholder . We are not going all in shotgun passing attack like the broncos were doing back then but Orton has experience and success playing in a run heavy system based around execution and game planning and pass heavy spread offense type system . Orton is no savior but with our running game he will have no problem handing it off and if needed he can do this http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81b974c1/QB-Orton-to-WR-Lloyd-46-yd-pass http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d822c6c89/QB-Orton-to-WR-Decker-33-yd-pass-TD Now in that second video you will notice him change the play at the line and then exploit the defense We don't need all pro although that would be nice we need someone is competent and has been around enough to recognize whats wrong and to try and fix it . Right now EJ simply doesnt have the experience to give the team what it needs. Hes not done by any means but hes simply not ready yet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 No matter what, there will be no "Orton Era". If the Bills put Orton in with Manuel healthy it is no more than admitting Manuel is a bust and trying to save their coaching/GM futures by stealing a couple more wins that they would with Manuel. They would already be looking for their next starting QB, if they aren't already. Or that they didn't properly coach him. He doesn't need to be a bust he could just not be ready. I do not understand how it always need to be one or the other. They rush his progressing into a starting QB do to necessity they did not need to continue with that this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 100% correct. This season, for better or for worse, is about seeing if Manuel can be a capable starter in the NFL. They NEED to find that out to determine a path forward, i.e. do they need to make QB their primary focus this off season or not. Right now, and particularly after that pathetic performance by Manuel yesterday, it is easy to let your heart make the decision to start Orton. But that resolves nothing other than appeasing some homer fans bloodlust. They HAVE to find out. And after only 4 games this season they do not know yet. So untie your panties and unclench your ass cheeks everyone, grow a pair and ride it out. And make no mistake, it is going to be a bumpy and probably ugly ride. Perhaps Bills management does not know yet but the trend is headed in that direction. I don't think anyone here advocating a change at the QB position has reached that conclusion based on an emotional evaluation. The numbers and the results support that conclusion along with some basic observation. It doesn't take a hall of fame talent evaluator to see EJ is struggling and could possibly benefit from a change. Can you honestly tell me this guy has any level of confidence at this point? To let him dangle in the breeze here just invites ruining him for good. So what should they do? Let the efforts of the entire team flush down the drain in order to evaluate if EJ can quarterback at a competitive level in the NFL, essentially wasting another year? Miss the playoffs again? Surrender a top 5 pick to the Browns for the Watkins trade? Give the new owner no choice but to clean house with the coaching staff and front office? Signal to a fan base that's sick and tired of waiting until next year that the team is content to wait until next year and that winning is a secondary goal and doesn't matter? The goal in the NFL is to win as many games as possible, make the playoffs, and work to win a championship. Any coach or manager that doesn't put that as job #1 shouldn't be working. With the way EJ is playing right now the only way the Bills win any games is if their quarterback plays worse than ours. That's a pathetic strategy. And given his low performance rating season to date its hard to imagine that happening. Maybe EJ can outplay Geno Smith given his recent performance but I have my doubts and if they maintain the current course we're looking at 3-5 at the half way point. Orton isn't the long-term answer but he's good enough to provide a measureable improvement. Enough to turn some of those certain future L's to potential W's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Allowing QB's to throw hot air balloons into coverage and awarding them first downs via penalty at the end of the game is a very bad look. Corey Graham interfered similarly at the end of regulation in the opener and also no flag. The NFL has always tucked the flags late in games. See the SF/Balt Super Bowl. That's why it was such an outrage back in 1998 when the refs gave the Pats that win in Foxboro on a Hail Mary PI call. I can't watch yet another performance like that so I will be DVR'ing that Detroit game. If I can't watch it I don't know how Marrone can. There really isn't time for this staff to give EJ 30 starts. He's a mess right now. Maybe 3-4 years holding a clipboard and working on his mechanics and mental approach and he will be able to step back into an NFL lineup but right now he's dying out there. It's not like he's just throwing too many interceptions or the kind of mistakes you expect from a young QB.....he literally can't throw a football. It's almost so bad that you have to wonder if he's getting the yips. I've always felt that giving him actual physical competion would be good because it would help prevent him from over-thinking the task at hand. That's a great post man. Some people continue to lean on that Carolina game from last year to rationalize how EJ "has the tools", "it's the O-line", "the receivers drop balls" blah blah blah... They fail to remember that during that game in crunch time 4th Qtr, EJ got strip sacked & fumbled plus he threw a pick. TWO turnovers in crunch time. It was only because of Carolina's ineptitude that the Bills even had a chance. Then it took a bunch of dink/dunk passes and a huge PI penalty to complete the comeback. Not a very sustainable method of 2-minute drill comebacks. Funny you mention DVR'ing the Detroit game. After blowing off a family event with my kids yesterday because I HAD to watch the big Houston game....i left feeling disgusted. I said next weekend I'm doing something with my kids on Sunday and will DVR the game. I'm not falling for this again... I'll still watch and be a fan but on my time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) If you are going to start removing stats why not remove the stats from when he was the backup? That's cool...Go ahead and assume he's going to return to form after 2 NFL teams gave up on him and the Cowboys did not want to pay him what he felt he was worth to be a back-up for a QB coming off back surgery... What every works for you... And I'm not saying Orton would not be a better option than EJ right now...I'm only saying he's a career 79.9 QB...So don't get your hopes up... And BTW, I said if he reverts back to the 2009-2010 form he's definitely an upgrade from EJ...So I'm uncertain why you even bothered with this post... Edited September 29, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 That's cool...Go ahead and assume he's going to return to form after 2 NFL teams gave up on him and the Cowboys did not want to pay him what he felt he was worth to be a back-up for a QB coming off back surgery... What every works for you... And I'm not saying Orton would not be a better option than EJ right now...I'm only saying he's a career 79.9 QB...So don't get your hopes up... And BTW, I said if he reverts back to the 2009-2010 form he's definitely an upgrade from EJ...So I'm uncertain why you even bothered with this post... My point wasn't that he was going to be good or not just that if you are arbitrarily removing stats you can make things look however you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Guess we won't have to watch another putrid performance...Orton to start at QB Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Guess we won't have to watch another putrid performance...Orton to start at QB Sunday Well, at least from Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Well, I suppose I was wrong about him playing the rest of the season... I feel stupid for it, but rather than give me hope for the future, this move just makes me angrier we gave up our 1 next year. Now where are we getting a QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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