KDIGGZ Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) This is the 2nd part of my multi poll questionairre... Fellow Bills faithful, these are trying times. We are under attack by a threat from the North. Our normally docile neighbors are hatching a plan to steal our team. http://www.foxsports...uy-bills-071814 They plan to come over the Peace Bridge with their bags of cash and take our Bills back to their country. They will lie to us and tell us what we want to hear but they are not to be trusted. As soon as the lease is up then they are outta here. It's a certainty as sure as the sky is blue. Do not fall victim to their deceit. The face of this evil organization is this man: He has offended our eardrums for years but we put up with it because our wife liked his CD back in high school. But no more! I for one do not want to see this nancy-boy in leather tights take our team from us. But the threat is real and the worry on a lot of ours minds is just. This is a very real possibility and things seem to be heating up. The question I'd like to ask today is: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE TORONTO GROUP WILL KEEP THE TEAM IN BUFFALO LONG TERM? They are working hard to spread their propaganda, enlisting the likes of Buffalo-native Ron Jaworski (former business partner with Bon Jovi in the arena league). They are trying to get us to believe that they have no intentions on leaving Buffalo. http://profootballta...out-of-buffalo/ They must think we are pretty dumb. But hey, maybe I am the only one who feels this way. Maybe I have trust issues because my high school girlfriend cheated on me with that one guy with a motorcycle in the next town over and I never fully got over that (f*** you Steve, she was mine first). Or maybe as a Bills fan I'm just eternally pessimistic. Can you blame me? What are your thoughts? Do you trust the Toronto group to stay? Edited July 25, 2014 by kdiggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Bon Jovi gives the Bills future in Buffalo, a Bad Chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/Editorial+interest+Bills+stay+Buffalo/10049450/story.html Interesting article. Says that we shouldn't trust the Toronto group and that many Canadians are rooting against them winning the bid because an NFL team in Toronto would be a bust and it would also hurt the tradition rich CFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET1062 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Sal on WGR just said, well Bon Jovi will be majority owner. Well, yes but let's do some math. Jovi 40% MLSE 30% Rogers 30% = Toronto Billionaires with 60%. So while Bon Jon may be majority owner and the NFL figurehead for their group, money talks and 60% is still greater than 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ask the Toronto Group to structure an ironclad, bulletproof, legal agreement not to move the team until 2035, involving ridiculous monetary penalties for doing so.. Then I will believe they won't move. About half a billion penalty would convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Bon Jovi doesn't want to be just another NFL owner, he wants to be known as: "The Man Who Brought NFL Football To Canada!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So this "poll" is basically you calling anyone that disagrees with you an idiot? Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I voted yes but I don't believe in the tooth fairy. I don't know if that is how I am supposed to vote? I tried to base my vote on information and not conjecture and fear. It will all play out soon enough. I do not think that the JBJ group will win the bid but if they do I expect the team to remain in WNY. Edited July 21, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ask the Toronto Group to structure an ironclad, bulletproof, legal agreement not to move the team until 2035, involving ridiculous monetary penalties for doing so.. Then I will believe they won't move. About half a billion penalty would convince me. Honestly, I'd want to structure it with MY attorneys as I wouldn't want to give them the benefit of the doubt anywhere (your attorney will always protect you more than their attorney will) and I'd make it way more than half a billion. Look at the Clippers sale, or the sale of the Buc's value pre and post new stadium. They could pay a half a billion and still come out a half a billion ahead by moving to Toronto. But I agree it should be done in the contract and done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 that Ron Jaws is acting as Bon Jovi's shill is remarkable. Ron is bought and paid for with 30 pieces of silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozitive51 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The 400 million penalty or any other monetary number written into a contract isn't the obstacle. It's getting the votes from other owners and knowing you will get them before you overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Unfortunately it doesn't matter what the fans believe....and like I told my 19 year old son who has basically only known pain from rooting for the Bills - if they go another 7 seasons without making the playoff's we'd be darn lucky to be rid of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The 400 million penalty or any other monetary number written into a contract isn't the obstacle. It's getting the votes from other owners and knowing you will get them before you overpay. The penalty is not an obstacle because this is a game that is played for the long term, not the short term. Any ownership group with determination to move the team could easily manipulate the situation toward relocation over the next 6 or 7 years. As for the owners, I would guess there is a fairly large contingent who would be willing to be led to the conclusion that Bills are not viable in WNY in the long term, and that much more money could be made in Toronto. The Bon Jovi Group is the major threat to the long term future of the Bills in WNY at this point and people should not be fooled by the current propaganda they are putting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) The 400 million penalty or any other monetary number written into a contract isn't the obstacle. It's getting the votes from other owners and knowing you will get them before you overpay. I agree, being allowed to move is a critical factor. Given strictly objective considerations, where would a pure financial analysis put the team? Be honest. Imagine you were starting from scratch. Where would the owners like to see the team given the emphasis on market and financial growth? I'd rather put my faith in Ralph (and subsequently Mary) to save our team in WNY. I try to be positive, but I don't trust the other owners to be too sentimental. I get moving a team has some negative implications, but if you're looking at it from a purely financial perspective... hmmm (Yes, I do believe the larger Toronto market would become attached if it was truly theirs - the beaches of Lake Ontario do not resemble LA.) Edited July 22, 2014 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Buffalo? No Niagara Falls or some other WNY site closer to Toronto? Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I do not believe at all the Bon Jovi/Toronto group will be the winning bidder but if for some reason they are, just sign a new lease to go along with the new stadium by 2019 that states the Bills can't leave Buffalo/WNY for any reason whatsoever and they can't play in Canada at all for the next 35 years . I don't see how someone who has a net worth of $300 million can be the lead owner of a franchise that costs a billion dollars. He has to put down 30%. He is going to be selling his guitars and gold records at the flea market? Rogers is the one with the money. MLSE should stick to their crap hockey franchise. I believe this is just a publicity stunt by Bon Jovi which will lead to his being part owner of a Los Angeles expansion franchise someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Buffalo? No Niagara Falls or some other WNY site closer to Toronto? Yeah. I think this is the best possible compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 I voted yes but I don't believe in the tooth fairy. I don't know if that is how I am supposed to vote? Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I agree a strict contract helps, but Crazy Al Davis was allowed to move the team - because they couldn't stop him legally. Either way, it's critical that it's a viable business plan. If they are easily accessible to as much of the broader market as possible in a competitive stadium, we stand a chance. If we're winning, it's a no-brainer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Would you buy a brand new car and keep it in your neighbors garage? No. And I doubt this group would want to do the same. I'd have no confidence in them doing all they can to keep the team in Buffalo. Rather be like the owners in Major League, doing all they can to move. First chance they get they are out. I'd hope to be wrong, but no shred of reason makes me think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I just don't think they end up with the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I don't trust the jbj group at all. Unfortunately we can't do anything about it. Hopefully TPegs is the winning bidder. Edited July 22, 2014 by DGW54321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Fixed You fixed it by deleting the part about basing it on fact. Nice crusade that you are on but I am sticking with my vote. FWIW, I don't think that he will win the bid. But what do I know.... P.s. Nice job in fixing the poll so now I can stand behind my vote 100% Edited July 22, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The 400 million penalty or any other monetary number written into a contract isn't the obstacle. It's getting the votes from other owners and knowing you will get them before you overpay. The penalty only comes into play if the team managed to win a court case that they've already conceded for all practical purpose when they signed the lease. You fixed it by deleting the part about basing it on fact. Nice crusade that you are on but I am sticking with my vote. FWIW, I don't think that he will win the bid. But what do I know.... It is quite the crusade, and it's a confusing one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 To be clear, I'm not saying Toronto wins the team. I'm just saying I trust Ralph to keep them in WNY more than the owners. I'd hate to be misunderstood on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 To be clear, I'm not saying Toronto wins the team. I'm just saying I trust Ralph to keep them in WNY more than the owners. I'd hate to be misunderstood on that. I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I don't understand. OK, to be less than clear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozitive51 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A group with intention to move the team would out bid any group committed to stay. The evaluation gap is just too big between TO and Buff to big to expect the WNY group to compete. However, the numbers are so big that the relocation group would have to feel extremely confident they could win legally or get the NFL owners vote for relocation. Nobody is going to roll the dice over 500 million. I expect that was the framework of JBJ lunch conversation with Goodell and what Trump was so adamant that he wouldnt overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiostyle Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The sudden mediablitz on JBJ keeping the bills in town is scary. It almost seems as if they know they have the winning bid and are doing preemptive damage control on the backlash. 0% chance that group keeps them in town beyond the current lease. I hope I'm wrong, but this all certainly seems planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozitive51 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 media is all over it because it's JBJ.. They know nothing. I agree , regardless of what they say they intend to move the team. The fans will never trust them and it would be a seven year NFL disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 To be clear, I'm not saying Toronto wins the team. I'm just saying I trust Ralph to keep them in WNY more than the owners. I'd hate to be misunderstood on that. Ralph doesn't have a vote in this matter, nor any other matter for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I trust them about as far as I can throw Ralph Wilson Stadium. No way they don't move the team to Toronto if they win the bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ralph doesn't have a vote in this matter, nor any other matter for that matter. His wife, niece, right hand man and attorney have the power. Why would he appoint those people if the team was leaving? Wouldn't it just be left to a bunch of attorneys and banks? Why would he put his family in that situation unless he wanted to make them heroes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Bon Jovi doesn't want to be just another NFL owner, he wants to be known as: "The Man Who Brought NFL Football To Canada!" Why would JBJ give a rats ass about being "The Man Who Brought NFL Football To Canada"? I am not saying you are wrong I just do not understand the connection? He is a Jersey boy what would bringing the first team to Canada get him? Seems like he would get more hate from his US then anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ralph doesn't have a vote in this matter, nor any other matter for that matter. Ralph may be dead, but his estate planning documents live on.... so Ralph is still in charge barring a poorly written document. I'm pretty sure billionaires can get good estate planning advice. I don't know what his intentions were, but he was and pretty much still is in charge. BTW - how do you bold on here. I'm a technological incompetent, but maybe I could be better understood with more knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sorry Augie and Kirby Jackson, I misunderstood. Agreed that Ralph's wishes were to maintain the team in Buffalo to ensure/protect his legacy. I think the trust will honor those wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Agreed that Ralph's wishes were to maintain the team in Buffalo to ensure/protect his legacy. I know nothing, I just hope and pray (and maybe assume?) those are Ralph's wishes in his estate planning documents. Kirby knows infinitely more than I do, and I sure hope he's right about the info that's helping me rest better at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBrad Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ask the Toronto Group to structure an ironclad, bulletproof, legal agreement not to move the team until 2035, involving ridiculous monetary penalties for doing so.. Then I will believe they won't move. About half a billion penalty would convince me. Then they would move the team in 2035. I believe that the Toronto group might not move the team in 2020, given the lack of a NFL caliber stadium in Toronto, but there is no doubt in my mind that their ultimate goal is to get a NFL franchise for Toronto. It's only a question of when, not if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I can't believe there is anyone who actually believes that the Toronto group would not try to find a way to move the team. Bon Jovi being the majority owner makes even less sense in that scenario. So Toronto billionaires who have openly and publicly dreamed of bringing an NFL team to Toronto are going to be minority owner money men to put Bon Jovi's bid over the top? Why? Because they have some dream of helping WNY? No, their dream is getting the NFL in Toronto. This accomplishes NOTHING for them. They won't run the team, they won't have any power, and they won't get any press. The NFL recognizes ONE owner, who has all decision making power, and that is the majority owner. The Toronto money men will have no seat at that table. So what do they gain, exactly? They will have no control, no seat at the owners meetings, and no Toronto NFL team. In that scenario, why not put Pegula or Golisano over the top since they won't have any power anyway? Edited July 22, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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