What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

One of the least appropriate emojis in this thread:

 

 

 

The ironic thing is that Irv Weinstein was widely felt to be a smart, good , decent man.

[ArdmoreRyno]

7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

I know your nihilistic stance on gun violence, hands winging, "nothing to be done."  That's more than enough.

 

I believe I've talked about what could be done AT LENGTH on here.... including a long reply to L Ron Burgundy on page 412. Did you skip that part and just go straight to the part where I talked about medications? 

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

The ironic thing is that Irv Weinstein was widely felt to be a smart, good , decent man.

 

Are you more worried about school shooters or nazis hiking the app trail?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

'll also say it again, we can protect our children but we have to finance the schools. Do that before we finance a proxy war in Ukraine. $30-50 billion could go to do what my school has done.... invest in real security cameras, safety glass at the door, double entry at the entrance (you have to be buzzed into the main lobby, then buzzed into the hall. Only the front office allows people in and they look at the camera first. Resource officers. Allow front office workers to carry/have access to firearms with the proper training. As a former member of the military and competitive shooter, I'd go through extra training by LEO to protect this school. Etc. etc. The loon in Nashville stated she went after her former school over another school because the LACK OF SECRUITY. If a school was allowed to arm itself, that deterrence is MASSIVE. No school that has armed staff has had a school shooting during school hours. Ever. 

you mean this part about making schools into vaults?  and nothing about stopping crazy people or drug addicts or criminals from getting guns.  Brilliant!  So we all know your answer to the thread:  More guns are better.

Edited March 29, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Tommy Callahan]

1 hour ago, redtail hawk said:

or could it be that our society is producing many crazy, sad people...  ya know, like people that take 30 oxycontin a day?  Are you against anti depressants?  Church of Scientology perhaps?  And of course, the only societal variable that has changed in the last 30 years is the number of psych med prescriptions...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

Welp. when said society is based on consumerism and victimhood being a commodity.  

people are way more medicated than before.

 

and the correlation with medication/SSRI and violence is something worth looking into.  especially when coming on or off it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Irv]

7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

you're just so clever...and law abiding.  Good for you!  Dodge Challengers are dead give aways.

 

People like you are all the same as long as it's not your rights that are being taken away.  I'm victor not a victim.  Keep being a sheep.  What a mess.

 

  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

People like you are all the same as long as it's not your rights that are being taken away.  I'm victor not a victim.  Keep being a sheep.  What a mess.

 

  

Yes, no one's coming after my guns.

Edited March 29, 2023 by redtail hawk

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

More guns are better.

 

We would be the SAFEST country on this planet if it were true.

 

But it is not.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Irv said:

it's not your rights that are being taken away. 

 

What rights have you lost?

 

List them.

 

[Irv]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

Yes, no ones coming after my guns.

 

You're all in on taking away guns but piss your pants when the SCOTUS takes away your right to abort a baby up to the birth date.  What a hypocrite.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Welp. when said society is based on consumerism and victimhood being a commodity.  

people are way more medicated than before.

 

and the correlation with medication/SSRI and violence is something worth looking into.  especially when coming on or off it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sure, ban SSRI's and this all goes away.  Ban anti psychotics while were at it.

Edited March 29, 2023 by redtail hawk

[BillStime]

23 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Okay... and how would you put that idea in place? There are laws in the books, in every state (they vary state-to-state) to do that. What constitutes someone who is a "psycho"? 

 

Honest question - are there any laws that could have prevented this tragedy in Nashville?

[ChiGoose]

8 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Welp. when said society is based on consumerism and victimhood being a commodity.  

people are way more medicated than before.

 

and the correlation with medication/SSRI and violence is something worth looking into.  especially when coming on or off it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

US use of SSRI’s is comparable to Iceland

Per Capita gun deaths 

Iceland: 0.07

USA: 12.21

 

While SSRI use is on the rise in rich countries, it doesn’t seem to correlate with gun deaths. 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

7 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

sure, ban SSRI's and this all goes away.  Ban anti psychotics while were at it.

Comprehension....

 

its worth looking into at no time meant ban or some similar strawman.

 

and now of days one can just take a basic statistics class online.  Its like I struck a nerve mentioning SSRI's. hmm

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Chris farley

[gobills404]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

US use of SSRI’s is comparable to Iceland

Per Capita gun deaths 

Iceland: 0.07

USA: 12.21

 

While SSRI use is on the rise in rich countries, it doesn’t seem to correlate with gun deaths. 

 

I wonder what the difference could be between Iceland and the US when it comes to people committing gun violence 🤔

[T master]

1 hour ago, redtail hawk said:

Things that didn’t kill kids today:
*Books. *Drag Queens. *Pronouns. *Statue of David

you apparently see things in black and white (dualism).  I see a spectrum.

 

No dualism just plain black & white that's the things that are wrong today way to much grey area today . Apparently you are either to young or just don't care about history & to short sighted to see what this countries history tried to get away from & yet has become the same that it ran from . I won't say that i would rather live any where else because even with all of it's faults America is still the best country in the world !! 

 

That being said America has become Fat, Lazy and entitled the people feel just because we live here we should have to be given entitlements, reparations for things that happened in the past & not have to work for them any more and have lost their balls !! With all that then you throw in a bunch of politicians that try to make every one happy which you can't do & give them every thing they think they need welcome to present day America .

 

A country with no consequences for anything which is a huge reason why there is so many that have shunned the bible & it's teaching because they want to live in a law less society to do what they want how they want when they want & do it by there rules & screw right or wrong .

 

No those things didn't kill kids but the things you list can indoctrinate children to this anything goes mentality which sorry but black is black & white is white.

 

If you as a ADULT person want to use pronouns go for it that's your prerogative, if you want to choose a different sexual life style go for it, If you as a "Adult" want to change your body go for it, but don't push your life style on me & mine i will raise my child & grand children to know things as they are intended what ever you believe how we became to be here & respect those that feel & believe differently until they PUSH or infringe their thoughts on me that's when i push back .

 

My belief is you can take a standard bolt & with enough force make a metric nut work on that standard bolt & it will hold not as strong but it will, but that isn't the way it was meant to be in it's inception & there will be ramifications to forcing things such as that . It will not hold as strong, as long & will only have 1 use and then it's done it can;t be used over again where if it is used as intended it can be reused over & over again .

 

But apparently common sense has no place today it's kind of like the thoughts of electric is best but charge them with diesel generators & use a machine that takes 1200 gallons of fuel per day to dig up the minerals needed to make the batteries welcome to the new world order ...

 

 

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

I wonder what the difference could be between Iceland and the US when it comes to people committing gun violence 🤔

I dunno, what do you think?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

'm just trying to imagine all the barbed wire it would take to fortify school playgrounds.  Barbed wire manufacturers stock might be "worth looking into".

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, redtail hawk said:

'm just trying to imagine all the barbed wire it would take to fortify school playgrounds.  Barbed wire manufacturers stock might be "worth looking into".

Welp. you live near DC. go look at any federal or important state building.

 

 

4 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

I wonder what the difference could be between Iceland and the US when it comes to people committing gun violence 🤔

No clue, that country loves their guns.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No dualism just plain black & white that's the things that are wrong today way to much grey area today . Apparently you are either to young or just don't care about history & to short sighted to see what this countries history tried to get away from & yet has become the same that it ran from . I won't say that i would rather live any where else because even with all of it's faults America is still the best country in the world !! 

 

That being said America has become Fat, Lazy and entitled the people feel just because we live here we should have to be given entitlements, reparations for things that happened in the past & not have to work for them any more and have lost their balls !! With all that then you throw in a bunch of politicians that try to make every one happy which you can't do & give them every thing they think they need welcome to present day America .

 

A country with no consequences for anything which is a huge reason why there is so many that have shunned the bible & it's teaching because they want to live in a law less society to do what they want how they want when they want & do it by there rules & screw right or wrong .

 

No those things didn't kill kids but the things you list can indoctrinate children to this anything goes mentality which sorry but black is black & white is white.

 

If you as a ADULT person want to use pronouns go for it that's your prerogative, if you want to choose a different sexual life style go for it, If you as a "Adult" want to change your body go for it, but don't push your life style on me & mine i will raise my child & grand children to know things as they are intended what ever you believe how we became to be here & respect those that feel & believe differently until they PUSH or infringe their thoughts on me that's when i push back .

 

My belief is you can take a standard bolt & with enough force make a metric nut work on that standard bolt & it will hold not as strong but it will, but that isn't the way it was meant to be in it's inception & there will be ramifications to forcing things such as that . It will not hold as strong, as long & will only have 1 use and then it's done it can;t be used over again where if it is used as intended it can be reused over & over again .

 

But apparently common sense has no place today it's kind of like the thoughts of electric is best but charge them with diesel generators & use a machine that takes 1200 gallons of fuel per day to dig up the minerals needed to make the batteries welcome to the new world order ...

 

 

uh huh?

[Boatdrinks]

15 hours ago, DrW said:

 

This seems a fair evaluation. However, one question remains: How did all the other countries shown on the graph avoid this "cultural and societal decay"? Or, at least, how did they avoid the dire consequences we experience in the US? 

That is a question that many wish to avoid . What is the racial breakdown of acts of gun violence in the US ? Scandinavian countries are often cited when examining gun violence in other nations. What is the racial breakdown of those countries populations ? The reality is that most gun violence in the USA is committed by those of certain racial background. These tend to be the result of a criminal element ( drug dealing , gangs etc) and a culture that celebrates violence . Unlike high profile mass shootings that often involve extreme mental illness. We need to look at the cultural differences in those countries , family structure , education etc.  This is a cultural problem, as people aren’t inclined to shoot each other  as a natural trait from birth. To say those other countries “ avoided “ a certain subculture is to imply that it’s somehow inevitable. I don’t believe it is. 

18 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

US use of SSRI’s is comparable to Iceland

Per Capita gun deaths 

Iceland: 0.07

USA: 12.21

 

While SSRI use is on the rise in rich countries, it doesn’t seem to correlate with gun deaths. 

 

What is the racial breakdown of the shooters in said gun deaths ? Therein lies the answer some wish to avoid .

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

That is a question that many wish to avoid . What is the racial breakdown of acts of gun violence in the US ? Scandinavian countries are often cited when examining gun violence in other nations. What is the racial breakdown of those countries populations ? The reality is that most gun violence in the USA is committed by those of certain racial background. These tend to be the result of a criminal element ( drug dealing , gangs etc) and a culture that celebrates violence . Unlike high profile mass shootings that often involve extreme mental illness. We need to look at the cultural differences in those countries , family structure , education etc.  This is a cultural problem, as people aren’t inclined to shoot each other  as a natural trait from birth. To say those other countries “ avoided “ a certain subculture is to imply that it’s somehow inevitable. I don’t believe it is. 

you know that opinion will not be allowed.  its full of micro aggressions and what not. 

[T master]

8 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Honest question - are there any laws that could have prevented this tragedy in Nashville?

 

I can say there is one that may have or could have possibly helped but it was voted down . There was a law or a thought proposed that certain teachers be allowed to carry weapons after being vetted which i have a nephew that was a cop for many years but now is a teacher & has the training to be that person in a case such as this .

 

It was seen by some parents that SRO's & implementing competent people in this type of place was not the way to go so it was turned down . In the talks surrounding this tragedy it was said here in the Nashville area that there are retired veterans that given the budget surplus here in Tenn. could be placed in schools as a deterrent for these types of things .

 

This psycho that committed this act was said that they decided against going to another sight labeled in their manifesto that had more security specifically because it had more security & they could be met with much more resistance which stopped this person from going there .

 

So if & i'm saying IF a law was passed (which if i remember correctly this is the way it is in Israel) that teachers only with the proper training such as my nephew that was for years a cop were allowed to carry & then retired veterans were payed to be officers with in a school this MAY deter these actions .

 

But like those in areas which i will not mention that have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation feel that it is more the guns than those that are actually pulling the triggers of those guns that are the reason this type of thing happens not wanting to be pro active rather than reactive the conversation will continue to follow the narrative of getting rid of the guns rather than putting things in place to stop these actions .

 

I don't believe that this would be the end all be all to this problem but there is the POSSIBILITY that it could at the very least make these walked out people that for what ever reason think to do such a act slow them to think of maybe not doing it as easily . 

 

And to end if those cops in Uvalde would have reacted the way our police force did in Nashville there could have been a bit different outcome in that situation I applaud those police officers !! 

 

Please keep in mind the capitalization of the words IF & POSSIBILITY in this reply because i don't know if there is a end all law to be made to stop such things but i wish there was .

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sorry….I have no idea why it repeated my post three times. 

 incidentally thrice reposting the same back and forth actually serves as a great metaphor for the gun debate. Nobody is trying to solve or even improve this in any way shape or form. 
 

It’s one of the more easily applied polarization tools that the ruling class has at their disposal.

 

 

one side…. Guns don’t kill people, bad guys do… don’t take my guns in case I need to resist Hitler or take on Jurassic park

the other… no guns mean no shooting ever again! Crazy people are societies fault and wouldn’t ever find alternatives to ways to do crazy things. No more guns ever !

 

 

 

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

42 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

you mean this part about making schools into vaults?  and nothing about stopping crazy people or drug addicts or criminals from getting guns.  Brilliant!  So we all know your answer to the thread:  More guns are better.

 

Never said that. I'm at a HS that has a GREAT system in place and it's no where close to being a "vault". There are even example photos on his thread. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Just now, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Never said that. I'm at a HS that has a GREAT system in place and it's no where close to being a "vault". There are even example photos on his thread. 

but more guns are better right?  you said school employees who aren't currently armed should be.

[ChiGoose]

21 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

That is a question that many wish to avoid . What is the racial breakdown of acts of gun violence in the US ? Scandinavian countries are often cited when examining gun violence in other nations. What is the racial breakdown of those countries populations ? The reality is that most gun violence in the USA is committed by those of certain racial background. These tend to be the result of a criminal element ( drug dealing , gangs etc) and a culture that celebrates violence . Unlike high profile mass shootings that often involve extreme mental illness. We need to look at the cultural differences in those countries , family structure , education etc.  This is a cultural problem, as people aren’t inclined to shoot each other  as a natural trait from birth. To say those other countries “ avoided “ a certain subculture is to imply that it’s somehow inevitable. I don’t believe it is. 

What is the racial breakdown of the shooters in said gun deaths ? Therein lies the answer some wish to avoid .

 

I don't understand the propensity of people on this site to ask leading questions or push a view without looking it up themselves first. It should be on the poster, not the reader, to support their claim.

 

In any event, I've done your work for you. It took like 15 seconds.

 

Trends and Disparities in Firearm Fatalities in the United States, 1990-2021

• There were a total of 1,110,421 firearm fatalities from 1990 to 2021
  • Gender:
    • 86% (952,984) among males
    • 14% (157,165) among females
  • Race:
    • 286,075 (26%) Black non-Hispanic
    • 115,616 (10%) Hispanic
    • 672,132 (61%) White non-Hispanic
  • Trend:
    • Lowest rate during timespan was 10.1 per 100,000 in 2004
    • Increased to 14.7 in 2021 (46% increase)
    • Firearm Homicide rate from 2014-2021:
      • Males: 5.9 -> 10.9 (85% increase)
      • Females 1.1 -> 2.0 (87% increase)
  • Suicides:
    • Highest: White non-Hispanic men aged 80 to 84 years (47 fatalities per 100,000 people in 2021)
    • Gender:
      • Male: 14 per 100k
      • Female: 2 per 100k
  • Urban / Rural:
    • Metropolitan areas: 7 per 100k
    • Non-Metro areas: 5 per 100k
  • Homicides:
    • 142 per 100k for Black non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 23 per 100k for Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 6 per 100k for White non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years

 

I'm sure people will cherry pick whatever piece of data that best fits their predetermined argument, but I think that this underscores that reducing firearm deaths requires a variety of efforts with different solutions for the different aspects of gun violence.

Edited March 29, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Tommy Callahan]

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I don't understand the propensity of people on this site to ask leading questions or push a view without looking it up themselves first. It should be on the poster, not the reader, to support their claim.

 

In any event, I've done your work for you. It took like 15 seconds.

 

Trends and Disparities in Firearm Fatalities in the United States, 1990-2021

• There were a total of 1,110,421 firearm fatalities from 1990 to 2021
  • Gender:
    • 86% (952,984) among males
    • 14% (157,165) among females
  • Race:
    • 286,075 (26%) Black non-Hispanic
    • 115,616 (10%) Hispanic
    • 672,132 (61%) White non-Hispanic
  • Trend:
    • Lowest rate during timespan was 10.1 per 100,000 in 2004
    • Increased to 14.7 in 2021 (46% increase)
    • Firearm Homicide rate from 2014-2021:
      • Males: 5.9 -> 10.9 (85% increase)
      • Females 1.1 -> 2.0 (87% increase)
  • Suicides:
    • Highest: White non-Hispanic men aged 80 to 84 years (47 fatalities per 100,000 people in 2021)
    • Gender:
      • Male: 14 per 100k
      • Female: 2 per 100k
    • Urban / Rural:
      • Metropolitan areas: 7 per 100k
      • Non-Metro areas: 5 per 100k
  • Homicides:
    • 142 per 100k for Black non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 23 per 100k for Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 6 per 100k for White non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years

 

I'm sure people will cherry pick whatever piece of data that best fits their predetermined argument, but I think that this underscores that reducing firearm deaths requires a variety of efforts with different solutions for the different aspects of gun violence.

 

 

 

 

 

Did you mean to provide the homicide numbers to support the OP comment?

 

 

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, Chris farley said:

Did you mean to provide the homicide numbers to support the OP comment?

 

 

I meant to provide the actual numbers they could have provided themselves.

Edited March 29, 2023 by ChiGoose

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

 

F'in nuts is F'in nuts

F'in nuts is F'in nuts

F'in nuts is F'in nuts

Thanks for sharing that deep clinical analysis. 🙄

 

Keep avoiding it. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

40 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Honest question - are there any laws that could have prevented this tragedy in Nashville?

 

First off, I appreciate the question instead of an attacking post. This is how we work on fixing issues (as a nation). 

 

And it's a good question. I don't know what this person was diagnosed with, but if they were diagnosed with depression that could lead to suicidal ideation... it should be noted in a NICS system. I've talked about this before, the parents have to be responsible for a lot of this (if they live at home). My oldest daughter, who is in school in Boston (she's a senior a highly coveted music college that it really high pressure) had to go inpatient for depression. I flew to Boston to help her. First thing I did was help remove anything from her apartment that she could use to harm herself. If she was still living at home, or say moved back home, I'd reduce the access to my firearms (they are in a safe when I'm not there anyway), knives, etc. 

 

Those parents of this girl should have been on top of things better. 

 

But as @T master said, I'm 100% for staff being allowed to carry if they are TRAINED by LEO. You know I'm former military and that I work at a school. If someone tried to do what the girl did in Nashville, she would be down before entering the 2nd entrance. She blew through TWO doors to get in, struggling to get past that first door. She should have been, could have been, dropped right there. That would require someone on staff, mainly front office, being armed. Newtown is another great example. He had to blast his way though safety glass, two levels of it, to get in. If someone at the front had a gun? No child would have died. 

 

 

[nedboy7]

3 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Did you mean to provide the homicide numbers to support the OP comment?

 

 

 

Were you shocked by him not trying to cherry pick the data and have a reasonable discussion? 

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

I meant to provide the actual numbers they could have provided themselves.

I was not expecting to see data that stark. homicides are the actual gun problem.  

 

The suicide numbers and demos were not expected.

 

 

 

Just now, nedboy7 said:

 

Were you shocked by him not trying to cherry pick the data and have a reasonable discussion? 

yeah after the last two days of "Guns" being repeated nonstop.

 

i

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

First off, I appreciate the question instead of an attacking post. This is how we work on fixing issues (as a nation). 

 

And it's a good question. I don't know what this person was diagnosed with, but if they were diagnosed with depression that could lead to suicidal ideation... it should be noted in a NICS system. I've talked about this before, the parents have to be responsible for a lot of this (if they live at home). My oldest daughter, who is in school in Boston (she's a senior a highly coveted music college that it really high pressure) had to go inpatient for depression. I flew to Boston to help her. First thing I did was help remove anything from her apartment that she could use to harm herself. If she was still living at home, or say moved back home, I'd reduce the access to my firearms (they are in a safe when I'm not there anyway), knives, etc. 

 

Those parents of this girl should have been on top of things better. 

 

But as @T master said, I'm 100% for staff being allowed to carry if they are TRAINED by LEO. You know I'm former military and that I work at a school. If someone tried to do what the girl did in Nashville, she would be down before entering the 2nd entrance. She blew through TWO doors to get in, struggling to get past that first door. She should have been, could have been, dropped right there. That would require someone on staff, mainly front office, being armed. Newtown is another great example. He had to blast his way though safety glass, two levels of it, to get in. If someone at the front had a gun? No child would have died. 

 

 

So more guns.  perfect.  As Billsy said, that's working so well now.

[Irv]

54 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

What rights have you lost?

 

List them.

 

 You must not live in NY.  Go ahead.  Put your head back in the sand.

 

Enhancing New York’s Gun Laws in the Wake of Bruen

 

In the wake of the Court’s decision in Bruen, New York’s lawmakers were called back to Albany for a special session to pass new legislation clarifying and enhancing New York’s many public-safety-oriented protections for handgun licensing in a manner consistent with the Supreme Court’s decision. On July 1, 2022, Governor Hochul signed landmark legislation expanding restrictions on access to guns in the state. You can read the law here.

 

Sensitive Places: The new measures build on the constitutional carveout for protecting “sensitive places,” barring the carrying of firearms in specific public settings, such as: colleges and universities, hospitals, houses of worship, public transportation, including subways, places where alcohol is consumed, homeless shelters and other public residential facilities, entertainment venues, such as stadiums, theaters, casinos, and polling places, and places where children gather, such as schools, daycare centers, playgrounds, libraries parks and zoos.

 

New Eligibility Requirements: The new law adds requirements for New Yorkers applying for a concealed carry permit, including presenting a certificate of completion of a standardized firearm training and firing range training. Only applicants deemed to have “good moral character” and sufficient mental competence—a determination based on an in-person interview, a written exam and character references—will be eligible for a concealed carry permit. Applicants may be disqualified by past illicit behavior, including misdemeanor convictions for weapons possession and menacing (placing another person in fear of death or serious injury). Applicants who are denied a permit following this process may appeal.

 

Safe Storage, Background Checks and Body Armor: The new law also imposes new safe storage requirements, for example, prohibiting gun owners from leaving a firearm in a car unless stored in a lockbox with ammunition removed, and requiring safe gun ownership in a home where someone under 18 resides. Additionally, New York’s new law allows the State to conduct and exercise oversight over background checks for firearms, beyond those maintained by the FBI, which lack access to state- and local-owned databases. Finally, the law expands the scope of bullet-resistant protective equipment prohibited in New York, for example, the steel-plated vest worn by the shooter in the Buffalo, New York.

  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks for sharing that deep clinical analysis. 🙄

 

Keep avoiding it. 

Didn't avoid it .  Trans, straight , gay, german, dutch,pakistani or irish.  Doesn't matter.  What matters is that he/she was insane and was able to get multiple guns.  And someone here says. No one is looking for solutions.  Several of us agree that that's a good place to start

[Precision]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I don't understand the propensity of people on this site to ask leading questions or push a view without looking it up themselves first. It should be on the poster, not the reader, to support their claim.

 

In any event, I've done your work for you. It took like 15 seconds.

 

Trends and Disparities in Firearm Fatalities in the United States, 1990-2021

• There were a total of 1,110,421 firearm fatalities from 1990 to 2021
  • Gender:
    • 86% (952,984) among males
    • 14% (157,165) among females
  • Race:
    • 286,075 (26%) Black non-Hispanic
    • 115,616 (10%) Hispanic
    • 672,132 (61%) White non-Hispanic
  • Trend:
    • Lowest rate during timespan was 10.1 per 100,000 in 2004
    • Increased to 14.7 in 2021 (46% increase)
    • Firearm Homicide rate from 2014-2021:
      • Males: 5.9 -> 10.9 (85% increase)
      • Females 1.1 -> 2.0 (87% increase)
  • Suicides:
    • Highest: White non-Hispanic men aged 80 to 84 years (47 fatalities per 100,000 people in 2021)
    • Gender:
      • Male: 14 per 100k
      • Female: 2 per 100k
    • Urban / Rural:
      • Metropolitan areas: 7 per 100k
      • Non-Metro areas: 5 per 100k
  • Homicides:
    • 142 per 100k for Black non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 23 per 100k for Hispanic men aged 20-24 years
    • 6 per 100k for White non-Hispanic men aged 20-24 years

 

I'm sure people will cherry pick whatever piece of data that best fits their predetermined argument, but I think that this underscores that reducing firearm deaths requires a variety of efforts with different solutions for the different aspects of gun violence.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe suicides should fall into the "gun violence" category.  I have known a few people who ended their life with their firearm because they were "done".  In a couple of cases, there were no further treatment options available, and they wanted to end their life while they still had that ability.  The age in the stats you posted indicate for many it is valid end of life option.

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

 You must not live in NY.  Go ahead.  Put your head back in the sand.

 

Enhancing New York’s Gun Laws in the Wake of Bruen

 

In the wake of the Court’s decision in Bruen, New York’s lawmakers were called back to Albany for a special session to pass new legislation clarifying and enhancing New York’s many public-safety-oriented protections for handgun licensing in a manner consistent with the Supreme Court’s decision. On July 1, 2022, Governor Hochul signed landmark legislation expanding restrictions on access to guns in the state. You can read the law here.

 

Sensitive Places: The new measures build on the constitutional carveout for protecting “sensitive places,” barring the carrying of firearms in specific public settings, such as: colleges and universities, hospitals, houses of worship, public transportation, including subways, places where alcohol is consumed, homeless shelters and other public residential facilities, entertainment venues, such as stadiums, theaters, casinos, and polling places, and places where children gather, such as schools, daycare centers, playgrounds, libraries parks and zoos.

 

New Eligibility Requirements: The new law adds requirements for New Yorkers applying for a concealed carry permit, including presenting a certificate of completion of a standardized firearm training and firing range training. Only applicants deemed to have “good moral character” and sufficient mental competence—a determination based on an in-person interview, a written exam and character references—will be eligible for a concealed carry permit. Applicants may be disqualified by past illicit behavior, including misdemeanor convictions for weapons possession and menacing (placing another person in fear of death or serious injury). Applicants who are denied a permit following this process may appeal.

 

Safe Storage, Background Checks and Body Armor: The new law also imposes new safe storage requirements, for example, prohibiting gun owners from leaving a firearm in a car unless stored in a lockbox with ammunition removed, and requiring safe gun ownership in a home where someone under 18 resides. Additionally, New York’s new law allows the State to conduct and exercise oversight over background checks for firearms, beyond those maintained by the FBI, which lack access to state- and local-owned databases. Finally, the law expands the scope of bullet-resistant protective equipment prohibited in New York, for example, the steel-plated vest worn by the shooter in the Buffalo, New York.

  

Its telling NO DA has used any of those new laws. Guessing they dont want their name going down in the history books when it gets stuck down at the court.

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, redtail hawk said:

Didn't avoid it .  Trans, straight , gay, german, dutch,pakistani or irish.  Doesn't matter.  What matters is that he/she was insane and was able to get multiple guns.  And someone here says. No one is looking for solutions.  Several of us agree that that's a good place to start

There are many issues involved here. For example, if this person was being prescribed mentally invasive drugs by a doctor…what was the doctor thinking? Heck, you’re not allowed to drive home from a colonoscopy! 

[ArdmoreRyno]

5 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

So more guns.  perfect.  As Billsy said, that's working so well now.

 

My ideas are better than your ideas... which is? 

18 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

but more guns are better right?  you said school employees who aren't currently armed should be.

 

What? I've said OVER AND OVER on this thread... if a staff member would be willing to and properly trained. I never said people should be forced or we "employees who aren't currently armed should be." 

 

Schools who have armed staff have NEVER had a on campus during school hours, shooting. Ever. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

8 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

My ideas are better than your ideas... which is? 

Well as a mental health professional, I would have thought you might have considered mandatory reporting from health care providers to a national gun data base for all patients who appear to pose a significant risk of violence.  An independent panel then could review the case and decide whether or not gun sales (or even confiscation-gasp) to these patients are appropriate.

Edited March 29, 2023 by redtail hawk