Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You may be right that there is no way they take him at 9, but you're reasoning is not. It's not about being the 4th OT off the board, rather where does he rank overall? He could be the 4th ranked OT and rank in the top 10 overall. Not saying he is in the top 10, but that is the question, not that he's the 4th OT. I would never take a RT with a top 10 pick but that is a different argument. In this draft there too many other players to waste that pick. If he is the 10th best player on your board I will almost guarentee that he ranks closer to the 20th player than to the top 6 guys. I am not a fan of picking the 1st guy in the 2nd tier. I would rather pick the last guy in the 1st tier or get more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Martin may well be a versatile OL who is better than the other 3 higher ranked OT's. But he'd be a marketing nightmare for a franchise with a cloud of uncertainty over it. (Not that it'll move, just that we don't know the ownership situation right now). But this is what happens when you win meaningless games at the end of the season and find yourself drafting just after the top tier guys are off the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I believe the case Kelly is making is that Martin is being evaluated as an elite talent -- not just at one position but multiple. That is the definition of an elite talent in my book since there aren't many guys who can do that. It's an interesting idea if that's really how Martin is grading out and that kind of portability (maybe a better term since it's beyond versatility, you can plug Martin into any position on the line and get a 4 star talent, maybe 5) is worth it, even at 9. Yup. There is huge value in having a guy that can effectively play multiple positions, but fans need something flashy in the draft. I fully expect Martin to go to some team like Pittsburgh that goes to the playoffs almost every year. Please no...I don't need a 6'4", 300 LB guard at 9. Really? How much did LG impact the Bills 2013 season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 2014 Draft Preview: Notre Dame OT Zack Martin <2:27> Buffalobills.com's Countdown to Draft Day preview series continues with a look at Notre Dame offensive tackle Zack Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Really? How much did LG impact the Bills 2013 season? In 2012, they had a LG that signed a $46.8M contract in FA and finished 6-10. In 2013, they started a high school LG and finished 6-10. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I trust Mayock more than any other analyst when it comes to the draft. He is rarely wrong. That being said, he doesnt always hit the mark when it comes to OL. After all, he did say that Cordy Glenn could only play guard. Also, Martin doesnt seem to fit ehat the Bills are looking for at OL. They like big OL and Martin is only 6'4 and 305 lbs CBF Edited May 2, 2014 by Canadian Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I like the OP's argument about the player and versatility, but, I wouldn't do it at 9. If we can trade down and add a mid-2nd round pick and use that mid-1st on him, I'm on board. That would allow us to add TE, DE and LB in rounds 2 and 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Really? How much did LG impact the Bills 2013 season? Not nearly as much as QB play, WR play, TE play, LB play, etc. I never said getting a LG wasn't important; I said I don't need an undersized guard at 9th overall; not when above-average starting guards are consistently found in rounds 3-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I like the OP's argument about the player and versatility, but, I wouldn't do it at 9. If we can trade down and add a mid-2nd round pick and use that mid-1st on him, I'm on board. That would allow us to add TE, DE and LB in rounds 2 and 3. This is totally different. I could get on board with this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Martin at #9 would be supremely disappointing next Thursday. About as bad a pick as you could get. But would definitely solidify the OL. I do not advocate selecting Martin by any means. Just stating the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Casserly just said on NFLN that Martin will not make it past the Giants or Pittsburgh. Said he would be regarded as an elite LT prospect if not for the T-Rex arms. Gave him high praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I trust Mayock more than any other analyst when it comes to the draft. He is rarely wrong. That being said, he doesnt always hit the mark when it comes to OL. After all, he did say that Cordy Glenn could only play guard. Also, Martin doesnt seem to fit ehat the Bills are looking for at OL. They like big OL and Martin is only 6'4 and 305 lbs CBF I have been hearing that Glenn only being a guard in the NFL was started by Buddy Nix! I dont like any of em, because they just feed off what GM's r saying. A good GM misleads the media and sometimes it works out! Nix wasn't terrible at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Some of you guys need to keep up on draft info before coming up with an opinion. Martin is being talked about being taken 12th or 13th to either the Giants or Rams. For all you guys belly aching that we should trade down and get him it wouldn't happen. Even if he slipped by both the Giants and Rams at 12 and 13, Baltimore and Miami with huge needs at Tackle are right behind where we would be if we traded down. If the Bills want Martin they are going to have to take him at 9. I think too many people have heard the names Clowney, Watkins, and Ebron and have stars in their eyes. Two of the 3 will be long gone unless we make a huge trade up, and Ebron, at least in my opinion, is severely overrated and will probably come off the board in the late teens or early 20's Edited May 2, 2014 by gonzo1105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Best post In a long time Kelly. Versatility is key. These big fellas get hurt all the time. If Mayock is right in his assessment of Martin, he's exactly the guy we need. If Hairston rebounds from his injury this season and looks good in camp at RT (i think he will) then Martin goes LG. if not then Martin slides to RT. Marrone loves guys like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Kelly, theres 1 inconsistency in your argument. If Martin projects to be very good and very versatile, why would he be easy to re-sign in 4 years? If hes that great hes going to want just as big of a contract as the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Kelly, theres 1 inconsistency in your argument. If Martin projects to be very good and very versatile, why would he be easy to re-sign in 4 years? If hes that great hes going to want just as big of a contract as the others. 5 years. I believe first rounders come with a team option for a 5th year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I have been hearing that Glenn only being a guard in the NFL was started by Buddy Nix! I dont like any of em, because they just feed off what GM's r saying. A good GM misleads the media and sometimes it works out! Nix wasn't terrible at least. He wasn't terrible. Too bad he put all his trust in Fitz to lead the Bills. That was his biggest mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I don't believe that that Brandon, Whaley, Marone & Associates (sounds like a law firm, doesn't it? Lol!) will trade down at all but with that being said if Martin were to be the pick then that would be the only way that I could be on board with. #16 might be the magic number again. If Jerry Jones really does want Manziel then Dallas would be a perfect partner for us in a trade down for Martin. I'm sure that Old Jerrah would pay a pretty penny to get in position to secure Manziel if that's really an accurate rumor. Of course Manziel would have to be there at #9 for this to even happen. With the extra early pick(s) I could see the Bills taking a DB with it. There is a great deal of buzz on Martin in the past week. Not sure he makes it past the Giants at 12. If the other three OTs were off the board, and it came down to Martin or Ebron, as boring as it is I would take Martin. I am not sold on Ebron and I think it is much more likely that plugging Martin in at RT would have a more immediate impact on success of the offense than having Ebron. I would look to get a TE prospect in Rd2. This is not an exciting approach, and fans will certainly be upset, but RT is a glaring hole on this team and needs to be fixed. Edited May 2, 2014 by MDFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Dave Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 As I said the other day, my boss is Zack's dad and we have spent considerable time talking about the draft since the college season ended. While I don't think there's any question that Robinson and Matthews are the top 2 linemen in the draft, I think you can make an argument for Martin over Lewan. Lewan has the upside; Martin is steady and less likely to be a bust. Considering his versatility, durability and consistency, and I'm not so sure Martin isn't a better pick than Lewan. Zack had a great visit with the Bills...but he also had great visits with several other teams. Probably worth noting that the team that keeps coming up is St. Louis, so don't be surprised if he's taken by the Rams at 13. With other teams like Miami and Baltimore having a need for a tackle, and considering that another team that doesn't have a need but really likes him also picking in the mid-first round (Dallas), I wouldn't expect Buffalo to trade down and get him...unless it's only a few spots (and then what are you going to get in return for a team moving up only slightly). For what it's worth, I think there's a greater chance of Martin being in the league 10 years from now than someone like Ebron. But admittedly, there's a greater chance that Ebron could be a Pro Bowler. So it comes down to swinging for the fences or going for more of a sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Some of you are missing the OPs original point - the dude can play every position on the oline at a very high level (sans maybe LT bc of short arms - but that's also not always the case).... Some of you are saying "you don't draft a guard at 9" - that's not necessarily the case here - would you use the number 9 pick to solidify your oline? That's the question....personally, yes I would The company line (and rightfully so) has been "protect EJ and get him weapons" - that's the goal of this draft....I don't care what order it comes in or how it looks or is perceived by fans or the media, if those two goals are accomplished it will have been a fantastic weekend I'm confident in OBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 As a Notre Dame fan I can say that there is no case to be made for Martin at #9. In the second round I'd be ecstatic. Other than that pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Some of you are missing the OPs original point - the dude can play every position on the oline at a very high level (sans maybe LT bc of short arms - but that's also not always the case).... Some of you are saying "you don't draft a guard at 9" - that's not necessarily the case here - would you use the number 9 pick to solidify your oline? That's the question....personally, yes I would The company line (and rightfully so) has been "protect EJ and get him weapons" - that's the goal of this draft....I don't care what order it comes in or how it looks or is perceived by fans or the media, if those two goals are accomplished it will have been a fantastic weekend I'm confident in OBD Not to beat a dead horse here, but Andy Levitre was an excellent guard who could kick out to tackle when needed, will be playing in the league in 10 years, and was drafted in Round 2. They let him walk last offseason, despite the fact that they were bringing in a rookie QB whom they needed to "protect." Drafting a non-elite tackle/guard hybrid in the top 10 simply because he is "versatile" would be the definition of running in place. I don't buy it. Whaley seems to want to come away with an elite player with his first pick, and I think it's the right approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Can you imagine if in the deepest draft in 30 years the Bills use a top 10 pick on the 4th OT off the board to play RT?!? I cannot fathom this. Maybe they like Martin but they are not taking him at 9. Some how this falsehood has taken hold, probably because people (and I am not singling you out, this is widespread) haven't paid close attention to the claim that "this is the deepest draft in years FOR WIDE RECEIVERS." No one thinks it's a great one for QBs, nor is it particularly deep (in the "can't miss" category) for DL. Beyond the top two, maybe three guys, the TE position isn't particularly deep. There don't seem to be any RBs making teams drool. However, and fortunately for the Bills, it does seem to be deep across the OL, and at LB, at least enough to get very good players through the first two rounds. BTW, Zack Martin is a member of the legendary Matthews clan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I watch a lot of Golden Domer games. This guy is a stud. Warming up to the idea at #9 but definitely Martin in a trade down. You guys saying wait and get him in the 2nd don't know football. Edited May 2, 2014 by r00tabaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Some how this falsehood has taken hold, probably because people (and I am not singling you out, this is widespread) haven't paid close attention to the claim that "this is the deepest draft in years FOR WIDE RECEIVERS." No one thinks it's a great one for QBs, nor is it particularly deep (in the "can't miss" category) for DL. Beyond the top two, maybe three guys, the TE position isn't particularly deep. There don't seem to be any RBs making teams drool. However, and fortunately for the Bills, it does seem to be deep across the OL, and at LB, at least enough to get very good players through the first two rounds. BTW, Zack Martin is a member of the legendary Matthews clan. Don't shoot the messenger. I was just relaying the thoughts of a veteran executive/GM: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325406/article/steelers-gm-kevin-colbert-says-this-is-deepest-draft-in-30-years Fwiw, if the Bills pick Martin at 9 I will never post on this board again. Book it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 He wasn't terrible. Too bad he put all his trust in Fitz to lead the Bills. That was his biggest mistake... Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 FWIW, Joe B's newest mock has Martin going to the Bills at #9, and Mayock says that Martin "will not" make it to the Giants at 12. Wonder what he knows? Maybe he knows the Bills have interest. Maybe he knows of teams interested in trading up past 12 to get him. It seems he is making an assertion here rather than just stating an opinion. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am sold on Martin at 9. They are comparing him to Logan Mankins. Line him next to Wood and open up 4 lane highways. And that versatility is huge. Martin's stock is skyrocketing. And there will be 7 tackles selected in the first round. Get one at 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Kelly, theres 1 inconsistency in your argument. If Martin projects to be very good and very versatile, why would he be easy to re-sign in 4 years? If hes that great hes going to want just as big of a contract as the others. IMO, he would only be able to get top RT money which is usually a couple three million less than top LT money. I don't think the Bills or any team are going to pay two guys over $10 m on the line. That is why I think that Glenn is gone after two years if we draft Matthews or Lewan. The Bills won't offer Glenn top dollar because they have LT in waiting. While Martin, because of his slight size limitation and slight arm limitation, would likely not be considered an elite LT prospect. Not to beat a dead horse here, but Andy Levitre was an excellent guard who could kick out to tackle when needed, will be playing in the league in 10 years, and was drafted in Round 2. They let him walk last offseason, despite the fact that they were bringing in a rookie QB whom they needed to "protect." Drafting a non-elite tackle/guard hybrid in the top 10 simply because he is "versatile" would be the definition of running in place. I don't buy it. Whaley seems to want to come away with an elite player with his first pick, and I think it's the right approach. You only draft him is you think he is elite. You don't draft him because he is a hybrid or versatile. I said if he is better, as good, or no significant difference as the other guys, which is what a lot of people in the know seem to be saying, then thee is a case to be made for it. Of course you don't take him if you think he is a guard or if you think he is not elite. Edited May 2, 2014 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 2014 Draft Preview: Notre Dame OT Zack Martin <2:27> Cheers for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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