Interesting comments from Chris Brown

[jjmac]

 

 

Well, maybe next year all of them (except hogan) can be on their Rookie contracts for you.

 

Marrone talks about accountability. Wouldn't that include expecting your most experienced and highest-paid WR to play like a #1?

[4merper4mer]

 

 

Has he done that?? With what player? If you worry about things that may never happen, you'll get grey hair before turning 18.

 

Brown referenced the WR from Tennessee (name I can't recall this moment) as someone Marrone released because he wasn't a team player and, possibly, because of a bad work ethic. That player appeared in a game last week and caught two TDs. Is it posible that, having been cut by Buffalo, that player got religion with Indi and that cutting the player was good for the player? Or maybe that was a one time occurance. Maybe, if it doesn't work out for that player, he becomes toxic to team chemistry? Can't we just wait and see with him?

 

Lets not create perceived problems with Marrone that may not exist.

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

[jjmac]

I don't really know what to say if you don't think he is. But here's the proof. Most receptions, most yards, most TDs. And he's been injured.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/team-statistics.html

 

Oh, and he's been the best receiver we've had in years. He's also the only WR to have back to back to back 1,000 yard seasons. A title that Andre Reed, Hames Lofton, Or anyone else can't claim. Just sayin.

 

Reed and Lofton played at much higher levels than Stevie has this year. In reality, though, I do expect him to be on the roster next season.

[ThurmasThoman]

The flip side that's hard to swallow is that if marrone tosses a couple of guys that could be nfl winners that he simply doesn't want to deal with or don't fit his unproven program.... We are left making up the talent gap again with the next coach. Lots of bad coaches run off good players leaving behind train wreck rosters. Hopefully, if marrone does make the bold moves at the top of the roster that rumors are pointing towards, he's the right guy to be making those moves (or atleast not terribly wrong).

 

I couldn't disagree more. As a manager that sometimes goes into jobs "cold", establishing the culture you want is paramount--maybe even more important than the work you do.

 

You could have a team of 8 people under you, and if the most talented one is a malcontent, the entire group is ruined. It's not rocket science, and it's not the coach losing the locker room, it's just human nature. Maybe after that Pittsburgh game, Stevie says "welcome to life as a Buffalo Bill" in a wide receiver meeting, and the young guys (who surely look up to him) laughed. That's poison, it undermines everything. And quite frankly, there isn't a player on this roster, aside from Mario Williams, who is talented enough to be able to be a malcontent and have his opinion carry weight.

 

Chan and Buddy established this roster, and as it stands, it doesn't have the talent to win more than 6 games. It hasn't had that ability for four years. Who knows what the cancer in the locker room is? It could be anyone. But whatever cuts the front office wants to make after this season is fine by me, and it should be fine by you as well. Because after last weeks game against Tampa Bay, this roster as it was contstructed by Buddy/Gailey had played every single team in the NFL over the last 3 seasons and this season--and were outclassed by all of them. The problem isn't Marrone, the problem is the roster.

 

Cutting the dead weight doesn't mean bringing in choir boys--as I said earlier, Alonso is no angel.

 

A lot of this goes unspoken in the NFL, but part of the reason teams like New England and Indy/Denver have been so successful is that those great QBs they have are also great character guys who can lead the team, and carry out the coaches philosophy--those kinds of leaders keep guys like randy moss, marvin the cold blooded killer harrison, or chad ochocinco in line. We, apparently, don't have that.

 

I look forward to seeing who gets cut.

 

Talent wins in the NFL. And so, like others have said, it's up to the HC to manage personalities and get the most out of them. There's a limit to that, but choir boys aren't going to get you into the playoffs.

 

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

If tom brady snickered every time beli was addressing the team, they wouldn't be where they are.

 

talent is part physical, and part mental. CJ has all the talent in the world but is my least favorite bill since jp losman.

[jjmac]

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. As a manager that sometimes goes into jobs "cold", establishing the culture you want is paramount--maybe even more important than the work you do.

 

You could have a team of 8 people under you, and if the most talented one is a malcontent, the entire group is ruined. It's not rocket science, and it's not the coach losing the locker room, it's just human nature. Maybe after that Pittsburgh game, Stevie says "welcome to life as a Buffalo Bill" in a wide receiver meeting, and the young guys (who surely look up to him) laughed. That's poison, it undermines everything. And quite frankly, there isn't a player on this roster, aside from Mario Williams, who is talented enough to be able to be a malcontent and have his opinion carry weight.

 

Chan and Buddy established this roster, and as it stands, it doesn't have the talent to win more than 6 games. It hasn't had that ability for four years. Who knows what the cancer in the locker room is? It could be anyone. But whatever cuts the front office wants to make after this season is fine by me, and it should be fine by you as well. Because after last weeks game against Tampa Bay, this roster as it was contstructed by Buddy/Gailey had played every single team in the NFL over the last 3 seasons and this season--and were outclassed by all of them. The problem isn't Marrone, the problem is the roster.

 

Cutting the dead weight doesn't mean bringing in choir boys--as I said earlier, Alonso is no angel.

 

A lot of this goes unspoken in the NFL, but part of the reason teams like New England and Indy/Denver have been so successful is that those great QBs they have are also great character guys who can lead the team, and carry out the coaches philosophy--those kinds of leaders keep guys like randy moss, marvin the cold blooded killer harrison, or chad ochocinco in line. We, apparently, don't have that.

 

I look forward to seeing who gets cut.

 

As do I. That's a thread somebody needs to start after the New England game.

[KOKBILLS]

It's amazing how frequently coaches come into Buffalo and attempt to mold the roster into what they want, wasting 1-2 years in the process. Unfortunately, they don't get it right, which means year 3 continues to be as bad or slightly better than the preceding 1-2 years. Jauron did it, Gailey did it, and now Marrone is doing it.

 

One of Marv's greatest abilities was to manage personalities. He had Jim, Bruce, Thurman, Andre and a host of guys who were stars to keep in check. While ML wasn't the best HC, he kept those guys on the right path (with exceptions). Now, we have the disciplinarian style seemingly invading the locker room and it's only natural the players will become resentful. But that's the danger of hiring college coaches who work only with 18-23 year olds.

 

Talent wins in the NFL. And so, like others have said, it's up to the HC to manage personalities and get the most out of them. There's a limit to that, but choir boys aren't going to get you into the playoffs.

 

Great post...Absolutely correct...

[Rockinon]

Stevie Johnson is definitely on Coach Marones s*** list, I think he'll be gone before next season.

I think the coach spoke to him because he was angry and frustrated, not necessarily because he's on the s*** list. Now CJ may be one that is on the s*** list, and a couple of offensive linemen may be on the s*** list. This team is struggling to run the ball after leading the league. EJ is not getting time to even go to the 2nd receiver in his progressions. The common denominator in the both run game and the pass game points to the offensive line. Marone has not had much to work with but that isn't stopping him from tinkering with the rotation. Unga is getting reps to replace Urbik and the LG position, he has not been satisfied with all season. It's easy to look at the skill positions and assume it's the skill player. Or you can look at the whole picture and determine the root cause of the problems. He may not even be satisfied with the RT position but doesn't have anyone healthy who can take over.

 

Skill players can make things happen, but you have to at least put them in a position to succeed. I agree with Chris Brown's take. I just don't think Stevie needs to be the scapegoat. Personally, I am turned off by his antics. He has moved into a leadership role and for a young guy who has some maturity issues, that's easier said than done. He is still excellent at getting open and this last game I saw some very heads up runs after the catch. I have noticed that EJ is targeting Stevie a lot recently, but he needs to find his other receivers too. Stevie is a good receiver but he is not Megatron, a guy who can carry the offense Too often, EJ has been locking on to his primary receiver(Stevie) and simply not looking at other options.

 

There are a lot of things going on. Inexperience at QB, poor protection by the OL, poor run blocking, running backs missing holes to name a few. Narrowing the focus to just one player is dangerous, although a lot can be said about focusing on QB. Players like Stevie, CJ, Fred and Scott are role players in a system. If the system is not right, the players are not going to be in a position to succeed. At the beginning of the year, the coaches said they wanted to run a lot. I don't see the production from the run game recently and with 2 very good backs. I really think the offense needs more studs on the line and that will be focused on in the off season next year. For now, hopefully the line can hold up well enough to give the rest of the offense a chance to succeed.

 

In this business, you have to be aware of a lot of things. Simply focusing on a dropped pass at a critical point in a game is not the answer. These things happen to all NFL teams. I would think that the coach is focused on individual players based on how they improve the team as a whole and not just one play that sticks in your craw. At least, I hope so.

[KOKBILLS]

 

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

 

I hear what you're saying...And I don't completely disagree...But the Pats still have plenty of talent, especially on the O-Line and some in the secondary...Their depth along the D-line has played impressively considering...Chandler Jones is very, very good...They have far less talent on Defense after the injuries no question...But enough talent to win around Brady who makes everything easier...The Belichick "system" is one of a kind in the NFL...But the biggest part of that system is the fact that he basically has an OC, and the ultimate team leader, for a QB...And that QB has stayed healthy most of his career...

[NoSaint]

 

 

Has he done that?? With what player? If you worry about things that may never happen, you'll get grey hair before turning 18.

 

Brown referenced the WR from Tennessee (name I can't recall this moment) as someone Marrone released because he wasn't a team player and, possibly, because of a bad work ethic. That player appeared in a game last week and caught two TDs. Is it posible that, having been cut by Buffalo, that player got religion with Indi and that cutting the player was good for the player? Or maybe that was a one time occurance. Maybe, if it doesn't work out for that player, he becomes toxic to team chemistry? Can't we just wait and see with him?

 

Lets not create perceived problems with Marrone that may not exist.

 

I'll say I worry because more coaches fail than succeed and if you are cutting at the top of the roster you better succeed or your not leaving the team in a better spot than where you found it. I'm not losing sleep but that's a fast way to dig a deep hole we get to sit in even after he's gone IF he cuts at the top AND doesn't succeed.

[mrags]

For everyone saying that they don't think the team is that young.... Were listed as the 3rd youngest team in the league. No link, they stated that in WGR less than an hour ago. FYI.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Marrone talks about accountability. Wouldn't that include expecting your most experienced and highest-paid WR to play like a #1?

 

The term #1 is pretty wide reaching - Stevie long term has played well, not great. He's paid well, not great. The same year pierre garçon got about 1.5m a year more, for a reference point, or colston at 1m per year more with guys like josh morgan, and Robert meachem coming in about 1m a year below.

[BillsVet]

This is true to an extent, but New England's roster is simply awful, and the star players are all injured.

 

Talent wins, but it needs a system to succeed in, a frame work to place the talent in.

 

If tom brady snickered every time beli was addressing the team, they wouldn't be where they are.

 

talent is part physical, and part mental. CJ has all the talent in the world but is my least favorite bill since jp losman.

 

The players in NE respect the HC, despite him appearing cold-hearted and unemotional. That's the difference, which should be patently obvious by now. I can't stand BB, but he's proven whereas Marrone isn't, Whaley, isn't, and EJM certainly isn't. Winning is the only way to do that, and the talk this organization has put out there is being tuned out. Point is, there is no substitute for victory.

[jjmac]

 

 

The term #1 is pretty wide reaching - Stevie long term has played well, not great. He's paid well, not great. The same year pierre garçon got about 1.5m a year more, for a reference point, or colston at 1m per year more with guys like josh morgan, and Robert meachem coming in about 1m a year below.

 

But he is our #1, at least for now.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

 

Or, maybe; 1. He wants to cut players that he thinks can't cut it and and can be replaced with more talented players and 2. He never sent Brown to pre-announce anything and your assumption that he did is nothing more than your asumption. In fact your thoughts here are all nothing more than your assumptions.

 

It's amazing how frequently coaches come into Buffalo and attempt to mold the roster into what they want, wasting 1-2 years in the process. Unfortunately, they don't get it right, which means year 3 continues to be as bad or slightly better than the preceding 1-2 years. Jauron did it, Gailey did it, and now Marrone is doing it.

 

Now, we have the disciplinarian style seemingly invading the locker room and it's only natural the players will become resentful.

 

I can't believe what some write here. Because you think that is what happened under Jauron and Gailey, the same will happen in year three under Marrone???

 

I know. It just came to me. Lets have an undiciplined locker room.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't follow college ball really but you can sign me up anyway for a RB that's over 6' and 240lbs. Reminds me of Eddie George just thinking about it. Yes please?!?!

Watch the Orange Bowl on Jan 3! I am a OSU fan and admittedly biased but let me just tell you, there are like 8 5 star RBs sitting on the bench because Hyde is so good. If they had kept giving him the ball against MSU they would be in the NC game. He is a stud. He was getting 8 yards a carry on the #1 D in the country and no real threat of a passing game. He would have been on the Heisman ballot if he hadn't missed the 1st 3 games which is when a lot of players rack of stats at the beginning of the year. If I could have any OSU RB in history I'd take Eddie #1, Hyde #2. He is the real.deal. Oh and he can the block.

[T master]

From Fan Friday...

 

In response to this question...

 

 

 

 

...came this answer:

 

 

 

Now, I know we don't put a whole lot of stock into what CB has to say, but these are some fairly strong words coming from him. It really sounds like we'll be seeing some folks get cut this offseason we might not expect. Stevie certainly comes to mind, but it does make me wonder who else.

 

Oh, and also this point:

 

 

 

 

Kind of interesting given all the goings-on in the Rogers thread.

 

Ya but Rogers given a bit of time like in Indy could have done for us what he did for them last week maybe alls this coaching staff needed to do was have a bit more faith in the kid & he could put up a bunch of games with 7 catches for 190 .

 

That is one thing this team doesn't do is take chances which Cincinnati is glad they took Burfict last year & the Cards are glad they took a chance on Tyrann Mathieu alls those 2 do is ball when they are on the field & once again they both sat there & the Bills passed on both !

[KGUNBILLS]

I don't know about Stevie being cut or traded, but I can't help feeling that Chandlers time is running out.

[Rubes]

I don't know about Stevie being cut or traded, but I can't help feeling that Chandlers time is running out.

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

 

We will see. He's not under contract next year so there's no hit to let him walk, and depending on what we do in free agency could cost us a comp pick if re-signed.

 

I like keeping him around but it'll be a different discussion than Stevie who has a huge cap hit

[BADOLBILZ]

I respectfully suggest that Tampa's team got a lot better after they released Josh Freeman. Check their record before and after that move.

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.

[jjmac]

 

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.

 

Shouldn't it be the OL first?

[OldTimer1960]

 

 

Freeman was playing terrible football. Is Stevie playing terribly? Chandler? Or whomever you want cut? I don't think they have been very good, but they haven't been awful.

 

Offensively, the biggest problem has been the QB play followed by the inability of the OL to dominate the LOS. But it's not like they have much invested in the OL so I am not sure what can be expected of guys like Pears, Urbik or Legursky....they were picked up off the unemployment line.

 

Not really sure how your example applies.

 

It was not meant to suggest that they should cut anyone in particular, rather to illustrate that there is precedence from another team moving on from a talented player who didn't mesh with what the coaching staff wanted. I believe that Freeman was cut more for his attitude and effort than for poor play. (I believe) if Freeman had been working hard and doing what the coaches asked, he would still be in Tampa - they'd have ridden out his poor play because he clearly has a lot of talent.

 

To the Bills, I don't know if there are players who haven't bought in to the program, but if so, I could support trading/releasing them

[YoloinOhio]

It was not meant to suggest that they should cut anyone in particular, rather to illustrate that there is precedence from another team moving on from a talented player who didn't mesh with what the coaching staff wanted. I believe that Freeman was cut more for his attitude and effort than for poor play. (I believe) if Freeman had been working hard and doing what the coaches asked, he would still be in Tampa - they'd have ridden out his poor play because he clearly has a lot of talent.

 

To the Bills, I don't know if there are players who haven't bought in to the program, but if so, I could support trading/releasing them

Absolutely. Da'Rick Rogers was one of them.

[Beerball]

 

 

He hasn't done it yet. He is merely relaying a message through the team press mouthpiece that he will. I assume this will be after the season. Which means 1. He is willing to cut talented players because he is unable to adapt his coaching style and 2. He pre-announces this through a back channel rather than addressing it himself. Pardon me if that doesn't strike me as a winning formula.

What would you prefer? He has taken one season and he's watched. If there are players who are not committed or productive then how long would you like him to wait? Remember, productivity...how many really productive players are there on this team? Can't win without productivity.

 

Addressing it himself? Go listen to his press conferences.

 

Please define your winning formula.

 

I'd much rather have this approach vs. Greggo's or Gaileys. Gregg jettisoned talent before seeing people play a down. Gailey had to have his offensive toy and allowed his DC to switch the team to a new alignment even though they didn't have the talent to support it.

[CSBill]

I posted this in the pre-season:

 

For what it's worth, I have an "inside source" (the best friend of one of the vets on the team), and he told me that there's a feeling amongst the vets that Marrone is somewhat over the top in terms of being hands on and controlling. The one example cited was that the Bills had a lesson during TC in how they were all supposed to stand during the national anthem (i.e., hold your helmet in this hand, put your feet like this, put your hand like this, etc.).

 

John Wooden did stuff like that, basically teaching his players how to be respectful, smarter, and how to act like men. It seemed to have turned out well-enough for him.

 

That being said, I'm way more concerned about his ability to judge and keep talent. The Bills seem to lead the league (maybe it's just our limited and myopic perspective) in getting rid of, or letting go, All-Pro types (Williams, Lynch, Peters, Spikes, etc.). Coaches are always smarter when they have better players. So I do hope that he can figure who the best players are and do what it takes to keep them—so we can build, not start over, each year.

[OldTimer1960]

Absolutely. Da'Rick Rogers was one of them.

 

1. No question that Rogers has talent, but he clearly wasn't productive in the preseason and there were suggestions that he was not working hard in camp. A new coach who is try to instill a strong work ethic on his new team really could not keep Rogers around and send the message that it's ok not to try or not to be productive if you have talent. That would undermine what he is trying to build into the team

2. Rogers has had exactly 1 very good game in the NFL, not enough to say he now "gets it"

3. Even if Rogers goes on to have a good career, who is to say that he would have done so if he had not been humbled by being cut.

4. Even his college team deemed Rogers too big a headache to keep around and he WAS productive there.

5. Every team in the NFL knew of Rogers' talent, yet not one thought he was worth even a 7th round gamble

 

Yes, it is possible that Rogers will go on to have a good career, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Marrone was wrong to cut him.

 

 

[Thurmal34]

The C on his chest. Hes a team captain and needs to lead by example.

 

Stevie Johnson is not a team captain.

[4merper4mer]

What would you prefer? He has taken one season and he's watched. If there are players who are not committed or productive then how long would you like him to wait? Remember, productivity...how many really productive players are there on this team? Can't win without productivity.

 

Addressing it himself? Go listen to his press conferences.

 

Please define your winning formula.

 

I'd much rather have this approach vs. Greggo's or Gaileys. Gregg jettisoned talent before seeing people play a down. Gailey had to have his offensive toy and allowed his DC to switch the team to a new alignment even though they didn't have the talent to support it.

 

 

This approach is Greggo's approach IMHO. So what if he takes a year and determines talented guys have to go because they don't match his personality instead of doing it day one? There is no way he will ever be able to assemble 53 Mini-Marrones and be successful. He has to be able to adapt. To run Chris Brown out there to basically say we will be getting rid of talented players between this year and next and not follow it up with....but they will be replaced by equally talented players....is not something that makes me feel like he understands the goal of winning. It is more like his goal is establishing his own authority.

 

Look, maybe people are reading too much into this and it was really just Brown's opinion. But to suggest the Bills will get better by purging SJ and CJ? I realize nobody named names but those are both plausible and have been widely speculated, especially SJ. Stevie is a talented guy and his talent is unique. That can help a team win. If CJ is purged, Marrone ought to be shipped to some asylum.

 

My approach would be to continuously examine the players but also myself. If i can't get the talent to perform, then I had better adapt my style. If there is a true malcontent, so be it, he is gone. But I need to evaluate that guy on his impact to the team, not his impact to some empire I am building.

 

If there are several guys I see as talented malcontents, then I am doing something wrong, because I can't reasonably expect their replacements to be equally talented and fit my mold. The solution to that is most certainly not having Chris Brown notify the fans that we are getting rid of good players in favor of guys who will do what I say.

[bobobonators]

 

 

I wouldn't be so certain. 5 catches for 54 yards today, and he was constantly open and made good catches. He and EJ seem to have a nice rapport. It's a position that can be upgraded, for sure, and his blocking is not very good, but he's a nice target to have. I can see him sticking around to bring a young guy along -- whether it's Gragg or somebody new.

 

Though he had a solid game yeaterday, it remains a position that can be upgraded in the off season. Chandler is a FA too. Perfect time to wish him well and upgrade.

 

Positions we should upgrade at: lb, LG, TE, WR

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

So what if he takes a year and determines talented guys have to go because they don't match his personality instead of doing it day one?

 

There is no way he will ever be able to assemble 53 Mini-Marrones and be successful.

 

Look, maybe people are reading too much into this and it was really just Brown's opinion. But to suggest the Bills will get better by purging SJ and CJ?

 

If there are several guys I see as talented malcontents, then I am doing something wrong, because I can't reasonably expect their replacements to be equally talented and fit my mold.

 

The solution to that is most certainly not having Chris Brown notify the fans that we are getting rid of good players in favor of guys who will do what I say.

 

Please tell me where Brown ever said that TALENTED guys have to be let go because they don't match Marrone's personality. That bad reading is yours. There are players on this team that lack the talent to be part of a championship team. I think that is what Brown was talking about. It's not about matching Marrone's personality. Its about getting talented players that have top grade work ethic and show complete dedication to TEAM.

 

Marrone is not looking for mini Marrones. He wants to see Fred Jackson style work ethic and dedication at every starting position on offense and defense.

 

The idea of purging S.J. and C.J did not come from Brown. It is speculation found here posted by fans who are frustrated and angry and have no idea of what Brown was talking about.

 

How would you feel about malcontents who are malcontents because they lack the talent to perform as Marrone wants them to perform. Wouldn't you want them replaced by players that do have the talent to satisfy Marrone. Or would you prefer that Marrone retain those players and continue to field a bad team?

 

Brown never said we are getting rid of good players in favor of players that will do as Marrone says. That, again, is you bad interpretation. Marrone is the Head Coach paid to field a winning team. He has a philosophy of how to build that team and he knows the kind of players and what talents they must have to help him do that. Cutting players that don't have the talent and/or attitude to contribute to winning is what building a winning team is all about. Give him a chance to build that team.

 

 

[BobChalmers]

I sort of remember that and honestly at the time I was ok with it because we all have to learn and adapt. I was hopeful Marrone would. Now he is starting to look like Greggo 2.0 and has the Soviet media aka Brown running interference for him.

I posted this in the pre-season:

 

For what it's worth, I have an "inside source" (the best friend of one of the vets on the team), and he told me that there's a feeling amongst the vets that Marrone is somewhat over the top in terms of being hands on and controlling. The one example cited was that the Bills had a lesson during TC in how they were all supposed to stand during the national anthem (i.e., hold your helmet in this hand, put your feet like this, put your hand like this, etc.).

Please tell me Marrone is not another my way or the highway guy. That got "fat guy" Pat Williams about 5 pro bowl years.......for the Vikings. London Fletcher got moved out....Spikes....Lynch....and others....all because coaches/GMs whose egos were too big to realize that they are a part of the team.....not the whole team. They all think they are General Patton. Instead of looking inwardly and improving their coaching skills to motivate guys like this, who are inevitable on any roster of 53, they "make examples" of them and assemble a minor league roster. Get the talent....coach the talent. A real malcontent can go, but if you're waiting for 53 perfect individuals you'll be waiting for a while. This guy can't handle the relatively innocent Stevie Johnson? A guy who wants to stay in Buffalo and wants to win here? If he can't do that he should simply resign instead of cutting Johnson to look like some sort of tough guy. If he is unable to handle Stevie his failure is inevitable. Spare us the misery; we've had enough.

 

Marrone looks more and more like Gregg Williams every day. It's too bad really. I think either one could have been a good coach if they had just an ounce of humility. Greggo didn't/doesn't. Marrone???????

 

Comparing Marrone to Gregg "Kobra Kai" Williams is utter nonsense.

 

Marrone - NFL playing experience followed by assisting on multiple successful NFL teams and respect from multiple players and H/C's around the league - the guy's been part of NFL success at multiple stops.

 

Greggo - HS experience, followed by an "in" with a friend onto the Titans staff, working his way quickly up to DC then riding top talent and dirty play to a stupid head coaching hire by the Bills that no other team repeated.

 

Maybe the players whining about Marrone's attitude are the ones who need to go because they aren't all-in on winning?

Edited December 16, 2013 by BobChalmers

[4merper4mer]

Please tell me where Brown ever said that TALENTED guys have to be let go because they don't match Marrone's personality. That bad reading is yours. There are players on this team that lack the talent to be part of a championship team. I think that is what Brown was talking about. It's not about matching Marrone's personality. Its about getting talented players that have top grade work ethic and show complete dedication to TEAM.

 

 

From the original post in this thread:

 

CB: As I said on the radio earlier this week, there are roster changes on every NFL team every year, but I foresee changes here in Buffalo that will surprise some people in the offseason. This first year, Marrone has been very thorough in making assessments of the players on this roster and whether he can win with them his way.

 

If he feels he cannot they will not be here long term. And let me be clear in saying what can earn a player a ticket out of here sooner rather than later goes far beyond athletic ability. Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all qualities that are coveted by Marrone and his staff too.

 

In fact in some cases lacking in one of those three areas might lead to a player dismissal (cut or traded) even if said player has the ability to help them win.

 

That is Chris Brown speaking, not Marrone, but it clearly states he want guys to do it "his way" and talent is not the only factor. Don't get me wrong, true malcontents should be cut loose, but it all depends where the coach draws the line. Too far to one side and you have an unruly locker room, too far to the other side and you deplete your team of talent. This crap about "my way" is what worries me. That sounds like Greggo.

 

Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all very desirable. They are also subjectively judged. As one other poster pointed out, Marrone had a class on how to stand for the national anthem. If a player holds his helmet in the wrong hand for the anthem, is that unprofessional and a ticket out of town? We don't know where the line is drawn for Marrone. I did not read it poorly, you did.

 

If Marrone draws these lines in the right places, that will make him a good coach long term; if not we are digging a deep hole again. I hope he shows more flexibility than rigidity but so far what I hear from him makes me worried.

[Leelee Phoenix]

The idea of purging S.J. and C.J did not come from Brown. It is speculation found here posted by fans who are frustrated and angry and have no idea of what Brown was talking about.

It's more than speculation since it came from the Bills PR man. It was a clear message to someone, probably Stevie. I think that's a poor way to handle things, and definitely not a TEAM way of handling things from Mr. Work Hard.

[4merper4mer]

Comparing Marrone to Gregg "Kobra Kai" Williams is utter nonsense.

 

Marrone - NFL playing experience followed by assisting on multiple successful NFL teams and respect from multiple players and H/C's around the league - the guy's been part of NFL success at multiple stops.

 

Greggo - HS experience, followed by an "in" with a friend onto the Titans staff, working his way quickly up to DC then riding top talent and dirty play to a stupid head coaching hire by the Bills that no other team repeated.

 

Maybe the players whining about Marrone's attitude are the ones who need to go because they aren't all-in on winning?

 

I hope Marrone is not like Williams but people can reach the same destination following different paths.

 

What players are whining? All I hear in the press is back channel crap about Marrone flexing his muscles.

[Cheddar's Dad]

 

From the original post in this thread:

 

That is Chris Brown speaking, not Marrone, but it clearly states he want guys to do it "his way" and talent is not the only factor. Don't get me wrong, true malcontents should be cut loose, but it all depends where the coach draws the line. Too far to one side and you have an unruly locker room, too far to the other side and you deplete your team of talent. This crap about "my way" is what worries me. That sounds like Greggo.

 

Work ethic, commitment to team and professionalism are all very desirable. They are also subjectively judged. As one other poster pointed out, Marrone had a class on how to stand for the national anthem. If a player holds his helmet in the wrong hand for the anthem, is that unprofessional and a ticket out of town? We don't know where the line is drawn for Marrone. I did not read it poorly, you did.

 

If Marrone draws these lines in the right places, that will make him a good coach long term; if not we are digging a deep hole again. I hope he shows more flexibility than rigidity but so far what I hear from him makes me worried.

 

What is his way and does it have anything to do with personality? Or is it about work ethic, commitment to team, and professionalism, coach and player traits that Marrone knows can produce winning teams.

 

If you want to call that "personality" you're way off base. Has there ever been a winning coach that has not valued those traits. If you say Marrone's looking for those traits equates to his personality, then I would say that Lombardy, Belichick, Knoll, and all of the SB winning coaches were "infected" with the same personality. Why in the world should that worry you or any Bills fan????

 

Regarding concern that Marrone has his team stand at attention during the singing of the national anthem. How silly is that. Isn't that a sign of professionalism and team discipline? Isn't that attending to every detail. Conversely, figeting around and not attending to the singing of the national anthem is a sign of lack of personal discipline and perhaps, disrespect. Look around you at the next game. Not only do people stand at attention, many of them hold their hands over their hearts and sing. I must say that as a Viet Nam era vet, having gone through military style discipline training, having had friends die in that war, I am among those that stand and proudly sing.

 

Belichick prohibits players from airing dirty laundry about the Patriots. He demands discipline and if he does not get it, that player is usually gone. Isn't that a little like what Marrone and Brown are saying and don't you really think that's a good thing???

[tennesseeboy]

marrone will be under the gun next year to get to the playoffs and he needs Mario, Byrd, and Spiller if he's going to do that. He's probably going to get a tight end in the draft, so Chandler will be gone. I think Stevie may be gone as well. I suspect the offense will get a thorough going over and that he'll perhaps be looking for an outside linebacker or two. Marrone faced a situation this year where 4 or fewer wins would have been an F, four to six a D, six to ehight a C and eight to 9 a B. He's probably going into the next season with a D and major improvement expected.

[CardinalScotts]

Chris Brown creating a story to have us believe next year will be awesome. Hype to sell tickets.

 

certainly a lot to look forward to

[BigBuff423]

Please tell me Marrone is not another my way or the highway guy. That got "fat guy" Pat Williams about 5 pro bowl years.......for the Vikings. London Fletcher got moved out....Spikes....Lynch....and others....all because coaches/GMs whose egos were too big to realize that they are a part of the team.....not the whole team. They all think they are General Patton. Instead of looking inwardly and improving their coaching skills to motivate guys like this, who are inevitable on any roster of 53, they "make examples" of them and assemble a minor league roster. Get the talent....coach the talent. A real malcontent can go, but if you're waiting for 53 perfect individuals you'll be waiting for a while. This guy can't handle the relatively innocent Stevie Johnson? A guy who wants to stay in Buffalo and wants to win here? If he can't do that he should simply resign instead of cutting Johnson to look like some sort of tough guy. If he is unable to handle Stevie his failure is inevitable. Spare us the misery; we've had enough.

 

Marrone looks more and more like Gregg Williams every day. It's too bad really. I think either one could have been a good coach if they had just an ounce of humility. Greggo didn't/doesn't. Marrone???????

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

[2003Contenders]

Plenty of overreaction here. If there have been rumblings of Marrone losing the locker room that is news to me. So he wants players to do things "his Way"? Is there any head coach that feels differently? In fact, when a new coach comes in it is always better to start off as a hard ass and then possibly ease up rather than doing just the opposite.

Edited December 16, 2013 by 2003Contenders

[4merper4mer]

What is his way and does it have anything to do with personality? Or is it about work ethic, commitment to team, and professionalism, coach and player traits that Marrone knows can produce winning teams.

 

If you want to call that "personality" you're way off base. Has there ever been a winning coach that has not valued those traits. If you say Marrone's looking for those traits equates to his personality, then I would say that Lombardy, Belichick, Knoll, and all of the SB winning coaches were "infected" with the same personality. Why in the world should that worry you or any Bills fan????

 

Regarding concern that Marrone has his team stand at attention during the singing of the national anthem. How silly is that. Isn't that a sign of professionalism and team discipline? Isn't that attending to every detail. Conversely, figeting around and not attending to the singing of the national anthem is a sign of lack of personal discipline and perhaps, disrespect. Look around you at the next game. Not only do people stand at attention, many of them hold their hands over their hearts and sing. I must say that as a Viet Nam era vet, having gone through military style discipline training, having had friends die in that war, I am among those that stand and proudly sing.

 

Belichick prohibits players from airing dirty laundry about the Patriots. He demands discipline and if he does not get it, that player is usually gone. Isn't that a little like what Marrone and Brown are saying and don't you really think that's a good thing???

 

I probably used the word personality where I should have used the word style. Outside of that, I disagree with what you are saying. Although I personally prefer when someone stands at attention during the national anthem I don't care in which hand that person holds their helmet. I thank you for your service to the country and truly appreciate it. The point I used about the national anthem had little to do with the national anthem itself and more to do with Marrone's style. Does anyone really need to attend a class about how apply Marrone's style to the national anthem? Certainly if they are goofing around during the anthem they need to hear about it from the coach....but a class? Should Mario Williams be cut if he holds his helmet incorrectly?

 

And give me a break about Bellichick please. You think he didn't know Hernandez was a dirt bag before Hernandez killed somebody? Like I said, there is a line and it is ok for be a little different with every coach but cutting talented guys because they aren't your style and waiting for someone to commit murder before letting them go are the opposite ends of the spectrum. Bellichick's displays an arrogance that he can correct anything. Marrone's seems to point at an insecurity about his own ability to be questioned. With a guy like Marshawn Lynch it was somewhere in between Hernandez/Johnson. I can't find too much fault in the Bills letting him go but at the same time I can't say a better group of coaches couldn't have rectified that situation.

 

Again these are just examples. I am more concerned that some nuance in Marrone's style will lead him to dump a talented player. "Discipline" "commitment to team" and "professionalism" are all important and also all subjective. I'm glad Marv didn't view Thurman's earrings as unprofessional because at the time they were certainly unusual. Marv adapted to his surroundings. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that with Marrone. If he dumps Stevie or CJ you will know he has a screw loose.

 

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

 

A tyrant is fine by me when backed up with results. This "we might cut talented guys after the season" message should not be delivered by the team press agent if the message is really from the coach. It should be delivered by the coach. Did Lombardi ever send out a public relations firm to do his work?