A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Dibs]

1) Leodis McKelvin is a pleasure to watch. I am the very first to admit that I thought little of him before this season. This man can cover.

I'm glad we re-signed him before he started to perform well on the field.

 

4) We have had a whole bunch of "apology threads" on this board. Who is going to be the first to apologize to BADOLBEELZ about his take on Stevie Johnson?

Most of the opposition was regarding Badol's assertions on SJ's conditioning. No apology needed IMO.

 

6) EJ was awful today imo. He always seemed slow to make reads. His completion percentage was not good, and he didn't see several wide open receivers. That said, the best pass of his short career was fumbled away by Chandler.

Though I think the adjective "awful" might be a bit harsh.....it is certainly in the right ballpark IMO.

I thought EJ looked similar(though obviously not as bad) as the Steelers game. To my eyes he seemed scared/uncomfortable for the entire game.

 

9) Is Summers just a bit too quick to signal Goodwin to down kickoffs? ....

I think so.

 

12) I take it back. Gilmore IS a "shutdown corner." His stupid, ill timed penalties, as well as his poor coverage helps to shut down the Bills ability to win football games.

I don't know what to think about Gilmore. He does seem to draw an inordinate amount of penalties.....and has a lot that aren't called against him too.

If I were you though Bill, I'd be praying/hoping constantly that he pulls it all together by the end of next season......because guess where his replacement will likely come from?

 

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always.....thanks for your random thoughts.....and GO BILLS!!!!!

 

Edited December 2, 2013 by Dibs

[thewildrabbit]

Really? "A few players away..." translates into how many years?

Hopefully this off season is all it takes.

 

Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks.

 

 

New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year.

 

OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years.

[mrags]

Hopefully this off season is all it takes.

 

Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks.

 

 

New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year.

 

OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years.

well said

[FireChan]

Hopefully this off season is all it takes.

 

Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks.

 

 

New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year.

 

OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years.

 

Yeah whiff's like Glenn, Mario, Dareus, AW, Byrd, Gilmore, Searcy.

[mrags]

 

 

Yeah whiff's like Glenn, Mario, Dareus, AW, Byrd, Gilmore, Searcy.

Glenn is good

Mario wasn't a draft pick

Dareus is coming off a horrible year which any thought was a bust

Williams was another bust before this season

Byrd was drafted by Juron and Russ Brandon

Gilmore, are you kidding after a game like today?

Searcy??? Who???

[Orton's Arm]

Hopefully this off season is all it takes.

 

Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks.

 

 

New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year.

 

OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years.

 

I envy your optimism. The Bills haven't had a quarterback since Kelly hung up his cleats. I don't see much on-the-field evidence this has changed.

 

There is a reasonable chance Gilmore will need to be replaced. Odds are Byrd will fly the coop; so that's another defensive starter needed. The Bills could also use another linebacker. They also need a TE. Fred Jackson isn't getting any younger, and Spiller is hardly what you'd call an every down player. The RB position will be something for the Bills to think about in the off-season.

 

The Bills are probably at least two years away--more likely three--even if our front office does a rock solid job from this point forward.

[billsfan714]

God I hope mean ole Jerry Sullivan doesn't write anything negative about our gallant warriors. Sarcasm.........

[FireChan]

Glenn is good

Mario wasn't a draft pick

Dareus is coming off a horrible year which any thought was a bust

Williams was another bust before this season

Byrd was drafted by Juron and Russ Brandon

Gilmore, are you kidding after a game like today?

Searcy??? Who???

 

"then he misses in both free agency and the draft"

 

You missed that part.

 

Glenn - agreed.

 

Mario - FA acquisition that has played outstanding this year and decent last year with a nagging injury

 

Dareus "is coming off a horrible year which any thought was a bust" and is having a top 10 DT year this year? In case you forgot, his brother died last year. Aren't you happy to have him now?

 

Williams "was another bust before this season" Players aren't judged by their first 2 years in the league but their careers. Aren't you happy to have him now?

 

Byrd "was drafted by Jauron and Russ Brandon" - Fair, forgot about that. Still, Buddy was a scout.

 

Gilmore "are you kidding after a game like today?" - So Gilmore has one bad game in his sophomore year and you're prepared to write him off? Even though Aaron Williams just improved about 1000% for his third year?

 

Searcy "Who???" - Just the guy with the most defensive TD's on the team this year.

 

So yeah, Whaley's the savior and Buddy Nix was drafting players exclusively from D3 and Canadian colleges.

[mrags]

God I hope mean ole Jerry Sullivan doesn't write anything negative about our gallant warriors. Sarcasm.........

he would be 100% justified on anything bad he could write with the exception of Freddy and CJ. Everyone else is fair game.

[mrags]

 

 

"then he misses in both free agency and the draft"

 

You missed that part.

 

Glenn - agreed.

 

Mario - FA acquisition that has played outstanding this year and decent last year with a nagging injury

 

Dareus "is coming off a horrible year which any thought was a bust" and is having a top 10 DT year this year? In case you forgot, his brother died last year. Aren't you happy to have him now?

 

Williams "was another bust before this season" Players aren't judged by their first 2 years in the league but their careers. Aren't you happy to have him now?

 

Byrd "was drafted by Jauron and Russ Brandon" - Fair, forgot about that. Still, Buddy was a scout.

 

Gilmore "are you kidding after a game like today?" - So Gilmore has one bad game in his sophomore year and you're prepared to write him off? Even though Aaron Williams just improved about 1000% for his third year?

 

Searcy "Who???" - Just the guy with the most defensive TD's on the team this year.

 

So yeah, Whaley's the savior and Buddy Nix was drafting players exclusively from D3 and Canadian colleges.

you mean Dareus, half of the defensive front 4 that allowed Steven Jackson and some no name RBs to run all over is today?

 

Gilmore and Williams that allowed yards to rack up for Gonzo and White all game?

 

Searcy is lucky in spots. He's not a starting Safety. Not even close. Other than his lucky ints, he's not very good. Average at best.

 

Byrd... Your still incorrect. He was not drafted by Buddy. He was drafted by Juron and Russ Brandon.

 

Mario. Your missing the point. Nix didn't draft him. He was a FA. A very good one. Considered the best available pass rusher in a long time on the open market. It's not a surprise that Mario would be good. He was the 1st overall draft. Anyone who has ever watched the Texans could tell you that Mario was a good player. Nix didn't find anyone special that we didn't already know about.

 

The fact is, that this year many if these players have played well, or better than expected but it's nothing guaranteed long term either. Just as much as you point out that these players working out well (Williams and Dareus) Anyone can say they are getting lucky. Anyone remember Anderson on Cleveland years ago? Played great one season and then was never heard of after that. Who's to say Dareus and Williams don't regress? Who's to even say they are playing well? Turnovers and sacks are great but that doesn't mean they are doing their job. Dareus is still part of the line that hemorrhage stone of rushing yards. Williams is still part of the secondary that hemorrhages tons of passing yards.

[FireChan]

you mean Dareus, half of the defensive front 4 that allowed Steven Jackson and some no name RBs to run all over is today?

 

Gilmore and Williams that allowed yards to rack up for Gonzo and White all game?

 

Searcy is lucky in spots. He's not a starting Safety. Not even close. Other than his lucky ints, he's not very good. Average at best.

 

Byrd... Your still incorrect. He was not drafted by Buddy. He was drafted by Juron and Russ Brandon.

 

Mario. Your missing the point. Nix didn't draft him. He was a FA. A very good one. Considered the best available pass rusher in a long time on the open market. It's not a surprise that Mario would be good. He was the 1st overall draft. Anyone who has ever watched the Texans could tell you that Mario was a good player. Nix didn't find anyone special that we didn't already know about.

 

The fact is, that this year many if these players have played well, or better than expected but it's nothing guaranteed long term either. Just as much as you point out that these players working out well (Williams and Dareus) Anyone can say they are getting lucky. Anyone remember Anderson on Cleveland years ago? Played great one season and then was never heard of after that. Who's to say Dareus and Williams don't regress? Who's to even say they are playing well? Turnovers and sacks are great but that doesn't mean they are doing their job. Dareus is still part of the line that hemorrhage stone of rushing yards. Williams is still part of the secondary that hemorrhages tons of passing yards.

 

I was responding to a post also criticizing Buddy's FA pick ups. Maybe I haven't made that clear in the 3 times I said it. Would you rather not have Mario? I do find it surprising you're changing the argument I was responding to, it makes my position tenable at best.

 

I said I was wrong about Byrd, but Buddy was a scout that year.

 

Searcy was a 4th round pick. Who is producing and seeing the field. He doesn't have to win the starting job outright over two 2nd round picks to be considered a good pick. He's playing better than Meeks and Duke Williams, who don't even play. Depth is good.

 

The fact is, that this year many if these players have played well, or better than expected but it's nothing guaranteed long term either. Just as much as you point out that these players working out well (Williams and Dareus) Anyone can say they are getting lucky. Anyone remember Anderson on Cleveland years ago? Played great one season and then was never heard of after that. Who's to say Dareus and Williams don't regress? Who's to even say they are playing well? Turnovers and sacks are great but that doesn't mean they are doing their job. Dareus is still part of the line that hemorrhage stone of rushing yards. Williams is still part of the secondary that hemorrhages tons of passing yards.Woods

 

As for the bolded, you can say this about this year's draft class as well, which the post I responded to annointed our rookies as the best draft. Who is to say Kiko doesn't regress? He's on the defense that allows tons rushing yards. Woods is a receiver on an offense that can't seem to march down the field consistently or get a passing yard total north of 300. Same with Goodwin. Same with EJ.

 

Dareus is 1/2 of a 4 man front?

 

I was responding to this post.

 

"Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks.

 

 

New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year.

 

OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years."

 

Has that cleared up your confusion?

Edited December 2, 2013 by FireChan

[mrags]

Nope. More confused after reading anything you post. Has been ever since you came to this site. I blame myself for reading your posts and will learn from my mistakes. I just won't read them anymore. Have a nice night. Believe what you will.

[FireChan]

Nope. More confused after reading anything you post. Has been ever since you came to this site. I blame myself for reading your posts and will learn from my mistakes. I just won't read them anymore. Have a nice night. Believe what you will.

 

And you complain about a degradation of quality on this board. For shame.

[mead107]

EJ played well Took the team down the field twice to win that game only to have 2 non Hands players fumble the ball. They hold on and we kick field goal and we are not talking about half the crap that went on today.

Was not long ago that people around this place was saying how we should have taken Geno. All you nut cases that wanted that are not speaking up anymore.

[chris heff]

 

 

Gilmore: I hope he gets better. I really do. He's played better than this in the past. Is his arm still bothering him? Is he in less than 100% best possible condition? Is he suffering from a lack of confidence? Or maybe those better performances early on his career were a fluke; or something offenses figured out how to counter. I just don't know.

 

As for Manuel: he averaged 6.5 yards per pass attempt: the same average Trent Edwards compiled over the course if his career. Like Edwards, Manuel relied mostly on dump offs. Saying he played well enough to win is like saying Trent Dilfer played well enough to win the Super Bowl.

 

Football is a team sport. A "well enough to win" from a Trent Dilfer on the Ravens could represent a much worse individual performance than a "not well enough to win" from John Elway on a 7-9 Broncos team.

Will you give it up EJ Manuel had nothing to do with this loss. You are so hell bend on being right about your personal analytics that you can't see what is in front of you. The defense gave up more running yards to this team than they had gained all year. Manuel had the team in position to win the game twice and twice the ball was fumbled. How many touch downs should Manuel have thrown to over come the lack of effort and concentration by his teammates? Maybe Manuel should complete passes to himself, so that he can then prevent fumbling.

Edited December 2, 2013 by chris heff

[FLFan]

Gilmore has been largely mediocre since coming back this season. People seem to forget how well he played last year. I am not sure what his problem is but it is a bit early to write him off.

 

The fumbles are inexcusable. Nothing else to say about that. I cannot even begin to understand how that can happen - twice.

 

Glen was good - Pears was awful. Serious upgrade at RT is needed. Upgrade at LG is obviously needed as well.

 

The penalties on Atlanta's last drive were simply extensions of a very poorly called game. How does the official standing right there looking at it miss the call on EJ's touchdown? Too many other examples to enumerate. Those last two calls though were killers.

 

The criticism of Manuel here this morning is curious. He had them in position to win. I think coaching is holding him back at this point. The play calling was ridiculous at times. He seems overly cautious, but when the game was on the line he made plays. Is that him or play calling/coaching? In any case, I guess I am not sure what people expected out of a raw rookie this year. He is doing fine and was not the problem yesterday - not even close.

 

TJ Graham is useless.

 

Kiko had a bad game - gonna happen sometimes. The inability stop the run was the downfall of the defense today. He has a big part in that, but was not alone obviously. I am concerned that Pettine cannot fix this with the group of players he has to work with.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

We need to remember that Roddy White and Stephen Jackson have been hurt for a good portion of this season. Jackson has played in 7 of their 12 games and White has played in 9 (and has been a shell of himself for most of it, gutting it out). Today they both seemed healthy for what seemed like the first time all year. They are damn good players.

 

2-9 team...they are terrible.

 

Officials with the choke job.....SJ and chandler with the choke job.

 

Gilmore is another draft pick that was 1 pick away.

 

Might change my screen name to Gilmore's cushion.

 

 

[ganesh]

The Bills defense was horrible on 3rd downs. On that game tying TD drive, the Falcons had a 3rd and 11 at their own 28 yard line and yet the Bills allowed him to get a first down with 13 yards catch.

 

They gave up 151 yards rushing to one of the worst rushing team in the NFL this season.

 

This defense lacked the physicality to manhandle one of the worst OL in football this season.

 

This defense gave up TD after TD. 38 yard TD run to some no-name RB...are you kidding...

 

While the offense may have fumbled at the chance to close out the game in regulation, this defense put this team in this situation to begin with.

[GunnerBill]

I also do not believe you can put that on EJ Manuel in any way. Was he perfect? No. But the offense scored 31 points - he did not turn the ball over and he made two big throws at the end of the game that should have put us in a winning position and his two most experienced pass catchers (ie the two guys with the most NFL starts catching passes on our team) dropped them.

 

Those drops and a bad day from the defense in terms of stopping the run, Atlanta were better than double their season average rushing, cost us this game.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I also do not believe you can put that on EJ Manuel in any way. Was he perfect? No. But the offense scored 31 points - he did not turn the ball over and he made two big throws at the end of the game that should have put us in a winning position and his two most experienced pass catchers (ie the two guys with the most NFL starts catching passes on our team) dropped them.

 

Those drops and a bad day from the defense in terms of stopping the run, Atlanta were better than double their season average rushing, cost us this game.

You see, but he *almost* turned the ball over and they didn't win, somethingsomethingaboutstatistics, or so the argument goes.

[Gordio]

Good post Bill. I will echo your sentiments about Stevie Johnson. He is what I call a dumb stupid player. He will get you beat everytime by making a dumb play in crunch time. My guess is he would never be on a Bill Parcells/Belicheck coached team because they do not want players like this. Wrap up the fuggin ball you moron & let Carpenter win the game.

 

As far as Manuel, a couple of us a few weeks ago got lambasted for suggesting we pick up another QB in the 1st round next year. I still stand by that statement if the right qb is out there when our 1st pick comes up. Manuel may or may not be the franchise QB & hopefully he does take that the next step next year but right now the warning signs are there for him being a bust. His accuracy & footwork stink & anybody that claims differently just has not watched him play. Before the Bills drafted him I posted on here that his accuracy is just not good enough. I still stand by that statement & it worries me. I am a firm believer you either have accuracy or you don't. It was why I never bought into the Losman hype & I was proved to be correct on that. Let's hedge our bet next year by picking another first round QB.

[xsoldier54]

I applaud the OP for taking anything positive from this loss. I could find nothing. Another gut wrenching defeat in a game that was winnable. Although I agree with most of the OP, I can't agree on EJ. He played well enough to help his team win today. It was mistakes by other people that cost this team the win. There is an inexcusable loss thread and I couldn't agree more. Shoulda woulda coulda.... getting so tired of that. This was a new low point for me. I have been a fan for fifty years and usually can be rational after a loss, but this one got to me. I have lost all hope and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. Don't get me wrong, I 'm not one of those guys that says "I'm done with this team." I know that I'm not and I know I'll be back next week. Just very disheartened and have no hope of the Bills ever being a good football team again.

[RuntheDamnBall]

As far as Manuel, a couple of us a few weeks ago got lambasted for suggesting we pick up another QB in the 1st round next year. I still stand by that statement if the right qb is out there when our 1st pick comes up. Manuel may or may not be the franchise QB & hopefully he does take that the next step next year but right now the warning signs are there for him being a bust. His accuracy & footwork stink & anybody that claims differently just has not watched him play. Before the Bills drafted him I posted on here that his accuracy is just not good enough. I still stand by that statement & it worries me. I am a firm believer you either have accuracy or you don't. It was why I never bought into the Losman hype & I was proved to be correct on that. Let's hedge our bet next year by picking another first round QB.

He put the team in a position to win, probably twice, at the end of the game when it matters. Argue all you want, but it's true.

 

Drafting another first round QB takes away the chance to add a critical weapon at TE or a guy who could help shore up the run D at LB. I see no reason to do this. Drafting a promising third rounder who slipped a la Glennon? Sure, why not. Using your best piece on a QB when you have a guy who gives you a chance to win? Preposterous.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Was it just me or was anyone else happy to see Marrone show some emotion on the sideline by throwing his visor and yelling?

 

CBF

[Gordio]

 

He put the team in a position to win, probably twice, at the end of the game when it matters. Argue all you want, but it's true.

 

Drafting another first round QB takes away the chance to add a critical weapon at TE or a guy who could help shore up the run D at LB. I see no reason to do this. Drafting a promising third rounder who slipped a la Glennon? Sure, why not. Using your best piece on a QB when you have a guy who gives you a chance to win? Preposterous.

 

I know it des sound a tad crazy & my guess is the Bills will never hve the guts to do it & they would get lambasted for doing it. But here is the thing. The Bills have not had good play from the QB position since Flutie was here. Manuel may or may not be the guy but if a guy like Bridgewater is out there I say the Bills pull the trigger. At the worst we are hedging our bets that Manel does not work out.

[RevWarRifleman]

Failure to put teams away has been the common denominator all this season. You can talk about player X or player Y, and even coaching. But failure to put teams away is a team malady, offense, defense, special teams. If it hasn't been the offense, its been defense or special teams, and vice versa that couldn't hold the opponent down.. To me, its a classic characteristic of a young team trying to learn how to win. That's where the Bills are this year. Its all part of the "learning curve." On a side not: EJ did all right yesterday. He got us in position to win a couple of times at crucial points in the game. He wasn't perfect, but he got us in position to win more than one time. JMO Go Bills!

[thewildrabbit]

Yeah whiff's like Glenn, Mario, Dareus, AW, Byrd, Gilmore, Searcy.

Look at your display name, are you forgetting who hired, and then was forced to fire that loser Chan Gailey? Buddy Nix brought in FA RT Cornell Green at 2 mill per in 2010, only to see this player benched and cut by week 5 of that year. Name me the great free agents brought in for 2010?

 

This exact same scenario happened this season with LG Colin Brown and his backup at guard Sam Young. both were benched and eventually cut and gone from the team around / after week 5. The guy brought in to be the backup center is now the starting LG, and god forbid any of the starters go down because all that's left is waiver wire players recently picked up. It was probably Nix who assured Whaley that Brown & Young would be serviceable.

 

Buddy Nix and his half-assed philosophy of guards are a dime a dozen has screwed this team time and again, and this year is no different with inferior play at LG.

 

Nix and his stupidity couldn't find a pass rusher in the draft during his tenure with the Bills, so he signed the most expensive FA DE ever. If Nix was a scout that found Byrd, he was also a scout that found Maybin!!This move of Super Mario while good, also handcuffed the team with other free agents and Bills players they could sign. More on this to come next year when he will cost the team 18 mill per.

 

I could go on and on about Buddy Nix and his screw ups, like allowing the move to the 4-3 to 3-4 and back to a 4-3. Then allowing the hiring of DC George Edwards, and Dave Wannstedt. This man wouldn't know a decent HC, DC, OG if they came up and kicked him in his moronic rear end.

 

This franchise regressed from a 6-10 team that was supposedly "not that far away" to a 4-10 team, and his regime never even equaled the stupidity of Dick Jauron, and his 7-9 teams. How many of the 27 draft pick the last 3 years have become pro bowlers? I'm pretty darn happy Nix is history.

[mead107]

You can say draft a qb all you want, will not happen... EJ is good. No saying a QB you draft next year is going to be any better. Seems no one can wait a year or 2 for the QB to become top notch any more... everyone wants it today... Major problem for our whole society today.

[GG]

Nobody brought up Kiko's game. I thought it was one of his worst outings of the year. His tendency to aggressively overpursue caused a lot of those long gainers.

[Pneumonic]

I am not qualified to determine if EJ is capable of being a top NFL QB spot or not but one thing I am certain of; you aren't winning in today's NFL if you don't have one.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I know it des sound a tad crazy & my guess is the Bills will never hve the guts to do it & they would get lambasted for doing it. But here is the thing. The Bills have not had good play from the QB position since Flutie was here. Manuel may or may not be the guy but if a guy like Bridgewater is out there I say the Bills pull the trigger. At the worst we are hedging our bets that Manel does not work out.

Bridgewater won't be there at #9. If the Bills lose out and Manuel looks terrible, sure, let's entertain this idea. If he plays as he has been, and the team plays as it has been, I expect 6-10 or 7-9, which is really out of range for a premier QB prospect, and also suggests that Manuel hasn't been the reason for the lack of success.

 

I think this regime knew what it was getting, was hoping EJ could win the job from Kolb over the course of the season - not awarded it by default - and is prepared to be patient but demanding with EJ.

[thewildrabbit]

Good post Bill. I will echo your sentiments about Stevie Johnson. He is what I call a dumb stupid player. He will get you beat everytime by making a dumb play in crunch time. My guess is he would never be on a Bill Parcells/Belicheck coached team because they do not want players like this. Wrap up the fuggin ball you moron & let Carpenter win the game.

 

As far as Manuel, a couple of us a few weeks ago got lambasted for suggesting we pick up another QB in the 1st round next year. I still stand by that statement if the right qb is out there when our 1st pick comes up. Manuel may or may not be the franchise QB & hopefully he does take that the next step next year but right now the warning signs are there for him being a bust. His accuracy & footwork stink & anybody that claims differently just has not watched him play. Before the Bills drafted him I posted on here that his accuracy is just not good enough. I still stand by that statement & it worries me. I am a firm believer you either have accuracy or you don't. It was why I never bought into the Losman hype & I was proved to be correct on that. Let's hedge our bet next year by picking another first round QB.

That fumble by Stevie would have been forgotten had the Bills scored on the next series, or had Scott Chandler not done the exact same thing in the next series and really gave the game away.

 

Stevie just coming off a series injuries so I'm not going to condemn him as he is still the Bills best option at WR, and from what I saw on the field is that nobody is as down on Stevie Johnson as he is on himself.

 

The Bills were 4-7 and a bad team this year due to various reasons. The Atlanta Falcons at 2-9 were not as bad as their record indicated. Lets not forget that this same basic team went 13-3 last year, same HC, same QB, only this season they suffered several key injuries to star starting players.

 

 

As for EJ, I still think that so many fans simply don't understand the developmental process that takes place in order for a QB to become great, 3-4 years for proper development. Look at the team around the QB, and realize he is limited by his receiver corps ( 2 top WR's just back from injuries), his coaches, his O line, and the teams inability to control the clock.

 

Just be thankful the Bills didn't draft that #1 ranked QB from last years draft... that the Jets just benched because of his ineptitude, AND his 20+ turnovers this year so far.

[thebandit27]

This EJ stuff is crazy...the guy played well. He wasn't perfect, but I'm seeing his performance compared to the Steelers' game? This cannot be a serious statement.

 

He made some very good throws and had a great TD run...and let's not forget he played his best football when the game was on the line; that's what franchise QBs do.

 

I'd also like to see what his numbers would be like if Goodwin doesn't get held on at least one of the two deep over-throws from EJ (I personally thought one of them was borderline holding, while the second was obvious IMO).

 

This kid's going to be good; just give him some time to develop. If today is "awful" in your book, then I think we're going to be very, very happy with him once he goes through another off-season of NFL maturation.

[JohnC]

 

 

I envy your optimism. The Bills haven't had a quarterback since Kelly hung up his cleats. I don't see much on-the-field evidence this has changed.

 

There is a reasonable chance Gilmore will need to be replaced. Odds are Byrd will fly the coop; so that's another defensive starter needed. The Bills could also use another linebacker. They also need a TE. Fred Jackson isn't getting any younger, and Spiller is hardly what you'd call an every down player. The RB position will be something for the Bills to think about in the off-season.

 

The Bills are probably at least two years away--more likely three--even if our front office does a rock solid job from this point forward.

 

At least for me the difference in determining whether a team is taking a step forward rather than being mired in the muck of mediocrity is the play of the qb. The Falcons are a very battered team, especially on both of their lines. What enabled them to come out of this game as winners was the differntial in qb play. Matt Ryan was able to play the whole field. He spread his passes around and he used all his receivers. On the other hand the Bills OC kept a tight reign on Manuel and limited his options to mostly the safe underneath stuff. Maybe the OC feels compelled to do so because EJ is not at the point where he can make quick reads and his accuracy in tight spaces is too erratic. EJ locks in on SJ at the expense of his other receivers. Woods has become the forgotten receiver. TJ Graham is a bust.

 

All teams have position vulnerabilities due to the nature of the cap that spreads talent out. Every team has unit vulnerabilities that can't be hidden. For the most part the difference between a successful franchise and an unsuccessful franchise is the quality of the qb play.

 

I still believe that EJ can be a franchise qb. But he has a way to go. This season was never about the playoffs. The roster was simply too inadequate for that marker. The most important issue for this team is finding out whether EJ is a legitimate franchise qb. I believe he is but I am not going to confidently state that I know it for sure.

Edited December 2, 2013 by JohnC

[Heels20X6]

Nobody brought up Kiko's game. I thought it was one of his worst outings of the year. His tendency to aggressively overpursue caused a lot of those long gainers.

 

He's one of the "can't do wrong" types around here but I agree. He overpursued terribly twice leading to one huge run and one TD. He needs to show better patience in the gap.

[RuntheDamnBall]

He's one of the "can't do wrong" types around here but I agree. He overpursued terribly twice leading to one huge run and one TD. He needs to show better patience in the gap.

Rookies gonna rookie. He made a big play earlier; he certainly can get better.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

18/32 210 yards 1 TD 0 INT and 1 rushing TD

 

you think that was a bad game for a rookie?

 

wow.

 

CBF

Edited December 2, 2013 by Canadian Bills Fan

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't understand how anyone could have a fully-formed opinion of EJ's capacity for future success at this point. I certainly don't have one. I see positives and negatives. The positives are obvious - he's a leader, an athlete, he has a live arm and can make every throw, he's accurate when he needs to be, and he seems to be unflappable under pressure. But for two idiotic gaffes by veteran "leaders" (one of whom, amazingly, convened a "sit down" with his coach last week to vent his frustrations about losing), we'd be talking about another game-winning drive by our rookie QB.

 

The negatives are concerning. The biggest one I see is that EJ doesn't go through progressions. He MAYBE goes through two reads on a given play, but very often he goes with his first read after diagnosing the coverage pre-snap. The fade passes on 3rd and 2 are perfect examples of this - he must've decided pre-snap that given the pre-snap coverage (press man, single high safety), he was going there with the ball come hell or high water. Same thing with the forced passes to Stevie. This is not what an NFL QB is supposed to do - he's supposed to read coverages both before AND after the snap, but EJ has a maddening tendency to want to get the ball out of his hands. That same tendency cost Trent Edwards his NFL career.

 

Now, to be fair, and the reason I can't reach any real conclusions, is that EJ has a very, very limited body of NFL work, and he's playing under a rookie offensive coaching staff. I have no idea if they're directing him to do this, or if it's on him. If it's him, and he doesn't fix it, I have little doubt that these coaches will find someone else to run their offense - they're not going to tether their own futures to someone who is incapable of evolving into a starting-caliber player.

 

But to call EJ a bust at this point also seems inane. He's still making progress, and he's competent enough, most weeks. He has his good games and bad ones. He does not seem to be regressing completely, like Geno Smith is. Nor is he dominating. It's about what I expected minus the missed games due to injury.

 

Folks let me just say this, to sum up: it's ok not to have a fully-formed opinion about something. I know this is a sports fan message board and people feel compelled to dig in on every single issue. But sometimes patience is the way to go...

[thebandit27]

18/32 210 yards 1 TD 0 INT and 1 rushing TD

 

you think that was a bad game for a rookie?

 

wow.

 

CBF

 

To be fair, nobody said "bad"...

 

"Awful", however, was mentioned.

 

I don't understand how anyone could have a fully-formed opinion of EJ's capacity for future success at this point. I certainly don't have one. I see positives and negatives. The positives are obvious - he's a leader, an athlete, he has a live arm and can make every throw, he's accurate when he needs to be, and he seems to be unflappable under pressure. But for two idiotic gaffes by veteran "leaders" (one of whom, amazingly, convened a "sit down" with his coach last week to vent his frustrations about losing), we'd be talking about another game-winning drive by our rookie QB.

 

The negatives are concerning. The biggest one I see is that EJ doesn't go through progressions. He MAYBE goes through two reads on a given play, but very often he goes with his first read after diagnosing the coverage pre-snap. The fade passes on 3rd and 2 are perfect examples of this - he must've decided pre-snap that given the pre-snap coverage (press man, single high safety), he was going there with the ball come hell or high water. Same thing with the forced passes to Stevie. This is not what an NFL QB is supposed to do - he's supposed to read coverages both before AND after the snap, but EJ has a maddening tendency to want to get the ball out of his hands. That same tendency cost Trent Edwards his NFL career.

 

Now, to be fair, and the reason I can't reach any real conclusions, is that EJ has a very, very limited body of NFL work, and he's playing under a rookie offensive coaching staff. I have no idea if they're directing him to do this, or if it's on him. If it's him, and he doesn't fix it, I have little doubt that these coaches will find someone else to run their offense - they're not going to tether their own futures to someone who is incapable of evolving into a starting-caliber player.

 

But to call EJ a bust at this point also seems inane. He's still making progress, and he's competent enough, most weeks. He has his good games and bad ones. He does not seem to be regressing completely, like Geno Smith is. Nor is he dominating. It's about what I expected minus the missed games due to injury.

 

Folks let me just say this, to sum up: it's ok not to have a fully-formed opinion about something. I know this is a sports fan message board and people feel compelled to dig in on every single issue. But sometimes patience is the way to go...

 

Agree with all of this...I'd like to make it clear that when I say EJ's going to be good, that's in my estimation based on what I've seen.

 

I should amend my statement to say that, based on what I've seen, I'm hopeful that EJ can develop into a franchise QB, since he shows many of the qualities that I believe a franchise QB needs to have.

 

Whether or not he will is entirely unsettled at this point in time.

 

Good post.

[bobobonators]

1) Leodis McKelvin is a pleasure to watch. I am the very first to admit that I thought little of him before this season. This man can cover.

 

2) Cordy Glenn gets better each week. Yeah, he really does.

 

3) Early in the game I wrote in my notes that Mario was a non-factor. But he kept fighting and he made tackles, blocked a pass, and had a sack. He makes the big bucks and doesn't quit. He sure has my respect!

 

4) We have had a whole bunch of "apology threads" on this board. Who is going to be the first to apologize to BADOLBEELZ about his take on Stevie Johnson?

 

5) In the end there's just a song.

Comes crying like the wind.

Through all the broken dreams,

and vanished years.

Stella Blue.

 

6) EJ was awful today imo. He always seemed slow to make reads. His completion percentage was not good, and he didn't see several wide open receivers. That said, the best pass of his short career was fumbled away by Chandler.

 

7) Bradham didn't show up well on the stat sheet, but he had a KEY tackle on the punt return with 4:26 left in the 4th. This stuff matters.

 

8) Badol, I am not going to start a thread. What I WILL do is state that I am sorry that I AGREED with you. Yes, it's true. You said that you wanted to keep SJ on the team and got attacked. I also posted that I wanted to keep him. I take it back. He lost us another game, and I am at a loss to remember a game that he has won for us. It's a shame that we couldn't get a 3rd round pick for him. I would take it in a heartbeat.

 

9) Is Summers just a bit too quick to signal Goodwin to down kickoffs? Seriously, do the Bills have THAT much to lose by letting him try to run back kicks?

 

10) I gotta tip my hat to Spiller. Was he hurt or not? Either way, he had some splendid runs.

 

11) The Bills need to lock up Branch. He and Hughes were the best Bills defenders in this game in my very humble opinion. I will take it a step further and say that the Bills would not have been in the game without key tackles and pressure from Branch.

 

12) I take it back. Gilmore IS a "shutdown corner." His stupid, ill timed penalties, as well as his poor coverage helps to shut down the Bills ability to win football games.

 

13) Once again, EJ needs more called running plays. He is good at running the football.

 

14) Being a Bills Fan is equivalent to a life of pain, but it is one that I would not trade. We truly are great fans to endure this.

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Good post.

 

1. McKelvin has actually looked better than Gilmore (IMO). Granted, look how long it has taken McKelvin to come around...Hopefully next year will be Gilmore's year.

 

2. Glenn has been one of the better draft picks we've had in the last 5 years. You NEVER hear this guy's name - which is EXACTLY what you want from an O-lineman.

 

3. Stevie Johnson. One of my favorite players on the Bills. I truly believe some players have that "it" factor that enables them to elevate their play when it matters most; they are able to rise up to the moment. After so many years of watching Stevie, unfortunately, I don't think he has that quality. His inability to come through when it matters most has become a pattern and not just an isolated incident. That being said, there are plenty of other Bills players who also lack that "it" quality unfortunately. And that's why we are who we are.

 

4. I don't think EJ was awful at all. He had us in a position to win the game; made no turnovers (despite a close call or two); AND AGAIN, HAD US IN A POSITION TO WIN THE GAME - NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE.

 

5. I thought the same thing about Goodwin. Let the guy run out if he wants for crying out loud. The guy has blazing speed and might break one. I've seen that same move by summers probably a handful of times this season. I don't see it that much watching other teams. Those two are NOT on the same page.

 

6. I'm still not convinced on Hackett. I'm not. I'm sorry, but Hackett's playcalling has at BEST been above average at certain points this season while being PISS POOR the majority of games this season. No screens; no passing plays to CJ; always the same run-up-the-middle play call on 1st down; and then again on 2nd down; when he gets to the red zone he doesn't know what to do. We have a mobile QB for crying out loud - we should be that much more dangerous b/c of bootlegs; playactions; etc as a result of having a mobile QB. But we're not. Bc all we do is run up the middle 1st down; 2nd down;

 

7. Chandler has to go. I've said this for a little over a year now. He has to go. He tries. He doesn't run his mouth. He seems like a great guy. But he's a below average TE in the NFL. We can and must improve. EJ will flourish with a top talent at TE (IMO).