Guard position battle not going so hot

[MClem06]

In the last press conference, Marrone called out Doug Legursky and Colin Brown for pretty much getting torched and not showing what he had hoped would come from that battle. I know that inside guard is not as important as the tackle spot but hearing this from coach doesn't exactly make you feel confident about a new QB coming in into that situation. Looking back when we finish this season I wonder how detrimental the Levitre loss will end up being to the development of the new offense as well as the new QB whoever it ends up being. This also could force an easier decision from Marrone on the QB to go in the direction of the more mobile QB Manuel since he'll be rolling away from the pressure or running for his life possibly. Was he lighting a fire or was he saying man we look like poop nuggets at that position?

[GG]

Guards are plug n play.

[Maddog69]

they were talking about it on the radio this morning and saying that they felt like it was an intentional comment by Marrone to fire up Brown and/or Legursky. But I was wondering if it might have been more of a subtle jab at the front office to go sign a veteran G who is clearly better than the crap we have now.

 

[San Jose Bills Fan]

If the Bills wanted to solidify the position and gain some peace of mind, they could simply sign FA guard Brandon Moore.

 

I think it's more likely that Marrone knows Brown and Legursky will be adequate but that he wants to see improvement from the two.

 

Marrone doesn't seem to have a problem talking publicly about his players, positive or negative.

 

they were talking about it on the radio this morning and saying that they felt like it was an intentional comment by Marrone to fire up Brown and/or Legursky. But I was wondering if it might have been more of a subtle jab at the front office to go sign a veteran G who is clearly better than the crap we have now.

 

Do you think Brandon and the Bean Counters would stand in the way if Whaley wanted to pursue a veteran guard?

[RuntheDamnBall]

I looked under a rock and found an offensive guard this morning. Nothing to see here.

[thebandit27]

they were talking about it on the radio this morning and saying that they felt like it was an intentional comment by Marrone to fire up Brown and/or Legursky. But I was wondering if it might have been more of a subtle jab at the front office to go sign a veteran G who is clearly better than the crap we have now.

 

I'm assuming the latter, but could be either really

 

 

If the Bills wanted to solidify the position and gain some peace of mind, they could simply sign FA guard Brandon Moore.

 

I think it's more likely that Marrone knows Brown and Legursky will be adequate but that he wants to see improvement from the two.

 

Marrone doesn't seem to have a problem talking publicly about his players, positive or negative.

 

 

 

Do you think Brandon and the Bean Counters would stand in the way if Whaley wanted to pursue a veteran guard?

 

Agreed and I like the approach as well...if they were concerned, they'd at least reach out to Moore. Although I suppose one could consider the signing of Caldwell--who's been a starter in the past at OG--a sign of concern.

[MClem06]

Makes you wonder if they could throw a 6th rounder out there on the table to see what other teams have to offer?

[GG]

I looked under a rock and found an offensive guard this morning. Nothing to see here.

 

I think that's your problem. You should have been looking under the couch.

[Joe Miner]

Could just be leaving the door open to suggest that he is expecting Caldwell to push and possibly win the spot?

 

Lets Brown and Legursky know that the decision isn't a done deal and they have real competition.

 

Whoever steps up is gonna win it.

 

He doesn't seem like he is fine with adequate performance.

[bowery4]

Didn't Chan play this game with Andy last year?

[Doc]

Speaking of which, has Levitre started practicing with Tenny yet?

[Captain Caveman]

I looked under a rock and found an offensive guard this morning. Nothing to see here.

 

I got a rock.

[Thurmal34]

If the Bills wanted to solidify the position and gain some peace of mind, they could simply sign FA guard Brandon Moore.

 

I think Moore retired SJBF.

[Brainiac21]

Moore definitely didn't retire... "waiting for the right opportunity". Wants real money. I'd say give it to him. May also want to be on a contender, but it's not like he's so old he can't put in a year dealing with our mediocrity. Could definitely be a playoff team in a year.

 

OG aren't that easy to find. maybe if the rest of you line is great, you get buy with a body. But we had a hole there for years after Ruben Brown retired. Chump after chump.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think that's your problem. You should have been looking under the couch.

I would say this is true, but couch cash is strictly reserved for paying coaches.

[Best Player Available]

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

Judging by the FA cornerback signing recently and others, it appears that Whaley will continue the Bills tradition of dumpster diving.

But they will pay 5 mil per for McKelvin?? A completely mediocre corner who would not have received anywhere close to that deal on the open market.

And, hope they hit one a decent if unspectacular player once in awhile. Look at contenders, do they do the same year after year?

Is this the way well run franchises build a super bowl contending team? or is this the way a team builds a 9-7 possible wild card team to placate the masses? The O-line could be a big issue this year including the RT spot.

 

Marrone and company may be the only bright spot along with a couple of rookies this season.

[GG]

I would say this is true, but couch cash is strictly reserved for paying coaches.

 

Hey Overdorf, how did you steal RtDB's login?

[1B4IDie]

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

 

This is true.

And Colin Brown isn't great.

 

It may just be that they have two bad players that aren't playing well.

 

It can be that simple and I think it is.

[eball]

Pure psychological/motivational ploy by Marrone. Mention it to the media, players hear it, results (hopefully) follow. I guarantee you Marrone isn't "sending any messages" to Whaley with these comments that he needs someone else to be signed. That sort of discussion would be direct and in private.

[MClem06]

Why so Serious - Where you going to next on your Road game list? I'm down here in FL and Tampa Bay is a great destination game , awesome stadium and actually really nice fans. It's a great experience at that stadium.

[K-9]

Didn't Chan play this game with Andy last year?

 

He did, back in 2011. Both Levitre and Hangartner were having abysmal training camps and were being outperformed by their backups.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[White Linen]

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

Judging by the FA cornerback signing recently and others, it appears that Whaley will continue the Bills tradition of dumpster diving.

But they will pay 5 mil per for McKelvin?? A completely mediocre corner who would not have received anywhere close to that deal on the open market.

And, hope they hit one a decent if unspectacular player once in awhile. Look at contenders, do they do the same year after year?

Is this the way well run franchises build a super bowl contending team? or is this the way a team builds a 9-7 possible wild card team to placate the masses? The O-line could be a big issue this year including the RT spot.

 

Marrone and company may be the only bright spot along with a couple of rookies this season.

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

Judging by the FA cornerback signing recently and others, it appears that Whaley will continue the Bills tradition of dumpster diving.

But they will pay 5 mil per for McKelvin?? A completely mediocre corner who would not have received anywhere close to that deal on the open market.

And, hope they hit one a decent if unspectacular player once in awhile. Look at contenders, do they do the same year after year?

Is this the way well run franchises build a super bowl contending team? or is this the way a team builds a 9-7 possible wild card team to placate the masses? The O-line could be a big issue this year including the RT spot.

 

Marrone and company may be the only bright spot along with a couple of rookies this season.

McKelvin's contract is actually $4.25 mil per year the original report of 4 years $20 million proved to be incorrect. I disagree that he couldn't have gotten a similar contract in the open market. Us fans tend to be more critical of our own players especially first round picks that don't develop into great players. In saying that I do believe winning teams keep players or sign players of McKelvin's skill set. He's not a bum, he's a nice player and these kind of players are necessary.

[K-9]

McKelvin's contract is actually $4.25 mil per year the original report of 4 years $20 million proved to be incorrect. I disagree that he couldn't have gotten a similar contract in the open market. Us fans tend to be more critical of our own players especially first round picks that don't develop into great players. In saying that I do believe winning teams keep players or sign players of McKelvin's skill set. He's not a bum, he's a nice player and these kind of players are necessary.

 

More critical and more full of high praise, depending on the player. For instance, McKelvin sucks while Byrd is the best safety in the game. And the longer Byrd holds out, the closer he gets to being a first ballot HOFer.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[qwksilver]

Yesterday, I caught some of Sirius' "moving the chains", they basically said that the starting LG might not even be on the roster yet. They also mentioned the day before that we could trade some DL depth for a LG.

 

Those 2 have a great show, I almost wish my drive home was longer so I could listen longer.

[eball]

I considered starting a new thread, but since he's a G --

 

Hangartner was just cut by Carolina.

[GG]

git er done, Whaley

[hondo in seattle]

Here's what Pat Kirwan had to say about the guard position:

 

On offense the Bills must find a left guard to replace Andy Levitre. Colin Brown is getting the first shot and Doug Legursky is threatening to take the job, but I get the feeling Antoine Caldwell could be the man in the end. Caldwell had 19 starts for the Texans, never has been called for holding and has yielded only five sacks.

 

I think, btw, that you can find a starting guard under your couch or any other piece of household furniture is just a little bit silly. Ideally, we'll have studs all across the line. Guys who excel at guard (or any NFL position) are hard to find.

[1B4IDie]

Why so Serious - Where you going to next on your Road game list? I'm down here in FL and Tampa Bay is a great destination game , awesome stadium and actually really nice fans. It's a great experience at that stadium.

I used to do two road games a year. Now I have two kids so the wife asked I cut it back to 1 for a couple of years.

Tampa would be the stretch goal this year. However I may have to wait until 2021 for Tampa. Because this year it is The Big Easy!!!

I'm telling you that New Orleans is going to be Buffalo-South the weekend before Halloween this year.

Its gonn be one for the ages.

[OldTimer1960]

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

Judging by the FA cornerback signing recently and others, it appears that Whaley will continue the Bills tradition of dumpster diving.

But they will pay 5 mil per for McKelvin?? A completely mediocre corner who would not have received anywhere close to that deal on the open market.

And, hope they hit one a decent if unspectacular player once in awhile. Look at contenders, do they do the same year after year?

Is this the way well run franchises build a super bowl contending team? or is this the way a team builds a 9-7 possible wild card team to placate the masses? The O-line could be a big issue this year including the RT spot.

 

Marrone and company may be the only bright spot along with a couple of rookies this season.

 

I think the Patriots do this every year and they are pretty good.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

they were talking about it on the radio this morning and saying that they felt like it was an intentional comment by Marrone to fire up Brown and/or Legursky. But I was wondering if it might have been more of a subtle jab at the front office to go sign a veteran G who is clearly better than the crap we have now.

 

Why is it some crafty ploy or intentioned remark. He was asked point blank about LG competition and said he's not excited with what he sees.

 

Maybe it's just pure honest communication.

 

He's been bordering on insulted when inadvertently accused of obfuscating or being deceptive and hammered the message he is a straight shooter.

 

I think he is just calling it as it is. Seriously, if earning a starting NFL job isn't enough to fire those two up then a blurb in the buffalo news won't move the needle.

[Nanker]

I considered starting a new thread, but since he's a G --

 

Hangartner was just cut by Carolina.

Whoa! Carolina snapped him up when Buddy tried to sneak him off and back on the roster. They never should have done that. Geoff's a talent.

[bobshaw81]

Legursky, was a scrub who wouldn't have started any games if not for injury. Why was he allowed to walk? he sucks.

Judging by the FA cornerback signing recently and others, it appears that Whaley will continue the Bills tradition of dumpster diving.

But they will pay 5 mil per for McKelvin?? A completely mediocre corner who would not have received anywhere close to that deal on the open market.

And, hope they hit one a decent if unspectacular player once in awhile. Look at contenders, do they do the same year after year?

Is this the way well run franchises build a super bowl contending team? or is this the way a team builds a 9-7 possible wild card team to placate the masses? The O-line could be a big issue this year including the RT spot.

 

Marrone and company may be the only bright spot along with a couple of rookies this season.

 

Once again our downfall will be the offensive line. This has not been addressed for years and continues to be the worst unit I feel on our team. I dont wanna hear about how good out line was last year. Gailey knew they sucked and taliored a quick pass spread offense to not make them look bad. We take luxury pick after luxury pick at skill postions when what we really need is big fat athletic talented men on the O-Line. Whats the point in having multiple number 2 or 3 WRs when you can't get the ball to them and you are more of a running team. Maybe Woods, Goodwin, Grahm(why is easley still on the team, just stupid) will pan out but we need a starting caliber RT, LG, and some depth for when/if injuries occur. I love Wood but even those freak injuries really hurt us and we need someone capable behind him. Pears was god awful last year. Hairston was hardly any better. Glenn looked good but I still want to see more. There is no depth at all. We lose our most consistent player on the line in Levitre. Instead we overpay for Merriman, Kelsay, Anderson, McKelvin and let the good players walk like Greer, Levitre and i pray not Byrd. He is the best safety in the game, and one of the best players on our team. Our game will be won in the trenches and not with young WRs, CBs or Safties. The offensive line situation really irritates me.

 

GO BILLS

[eball]

Whoa! Carolina snapped him up when Buddy tried to sneak him off and back on the roster. They never should have done that. Geoff's a talent.

 

Just say no to anyone who spells Jeff G-E-O-F-F.

[thebandit27]

Once again our downfall will be the offensive line. This has not been addressed for years and continues to be the worst unit I feel on our team. I dont wanna hear about how good out line was last year. Gailey knew they sucked and taliored a quick pass spread offense to not make them look bad. We take luxury pick after luxury pick at skill postions when what we really need is big fat athletic talented men on the O-Line. Whats the point in having multiple number 2 or 3 WRs when you can't get the ball to them and you are more of a running team. Maybe Woods, Goodwin, Grahm(why is easley still on the team, just stupid) will pan out but we need a starting caliber RT, LG, and some depth for when/if injuries occur. I love Wood but even those freak injuries really hurt us and we need someone capable behind him. Pears was god awful last year. Hairston was hardly any better. Glenn looked good but I still want to see more. There is no depth at all. We lose our most consistent player on the line in Levitre. Instead we overpay for Merriman, Kelsay, Anderson, McKelvin and let the good players walk like Greer, Levitre and i pray not Byrd. He is the best safety in the game, and one of the best players on our team. Our game will be won in the trenches and not with young WRs, CBs or Safties. The offensive line situation really irritates me.

 

GO BILLS

 

There are several flaws in your post:

 

1) No, the OL hasn't gone unaddressed for years. The team spend a 2nd round pick on Glenn, a 1st on Wood, a 4th on Hairston, a 2nd on Levitre, and signed both Pears and Urbik do long-term deals. All since 2010.

 

2) You can point to Gailey's quick passing game if you want, but there are actually statistical outfits that go to great lengths to examine OL play to account for things like quick passing plays and RB's ability. Just have a look at Football Outsiders, who do this kind of thing yearly:

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

The Bills rank highly in both the running and passing categories, which account for RB play, QB pressures, release timing, etc.

 

3) Byrd is far from the best safety in the game. I don't know if you've seen much of guys like Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Charles Woodson, Eric Weddle, or Michael Griffin, but all have an argument for being better than Byrd. Top 10 I'll give you, but best in the game is downright incorrect.

[KOKBILLS]

Just say no to anyone who spells Jeff G-E-O-F-F.

 

 

This is SO true!!! Geoff Tate has proven to be one of the biggest douchebags on the planet earth...There's your proof...

 

There are several flaws in your post:

 

1) No, the OL hasn't gone unaddressed for years. The team spend a 2nd round pick on Glenn, a 1st on Wood, a 4th on Hairston, a 2nd on Levitre, and signed both Pears and Urbik do long-term deals. All since 2010.

 

2) You can point to Gailey's quick passing game if you want, but there are actually statistical outfits that go to great lengths to examine OL play to account for things like quick passing plays and RB's ability. Just have a look at Football Outsiders, who do this kind of thing yearly:

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

The Bills rank highly in both the running and passing categories, which account for RB play, QB pressures, release timing, etc.

 

3) Byrd is far from the best safety in the game. I don't know if you've seen much of guys like Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Charles Woodson, Eric Weddle, or Michael Griffin, but all have an argument for being better than Byrd. Top 10 I'll give you, but best in the game is downright incorrect.

 

Exactly to all points...Great post...

[BobChalmers]

Once again our downfall will be the offensive line. This has not been addressed for years and continues to be the worst unit I feel on our team. I dont wanna hear about how good out line was last year. Gailey knew they sucked and taliored a quick pass spread offense to not make them look bad. We take luxury pick after luxury pick at skill postions when what we really need is big fat athletic talented men on the O-Line. Whats the point in having multiple number 2 or 3 WRs when you can't get the ball to them and you are more of a running team. Maybe Woods, Goodwin, Grahm(why is easley still on the team, just stupid) will pan out but we need a starting caliber RT, LG, and some depth for when/if injuries occur. I love Wood but even those freak injuries really hurt us and we need someone capable behind him. Pears was god awful last year. Hairston was hardly any better. Glenn looked good but I still want to see more. There is no depth at all. We lose our most consistent player on the line in Levitre. Instead we overpay for Merriman, Kelsay, Anderson, McKelvin and let the good players walk like Greer, Levitre and i pray not Byrd. He is the best safety in the game, and one of the best players on our team. Our game will be won in the trenches and not with young WRs, CBs or Safties. The offensive line situation really irritates me.

 

GO BILLS

 

Thanks for your service to our country!

 

(I assume you have been out of contact in Afghanistan or somewhere since your post would be spot-on 4 years ago, but is pretty off-base in 2013.)

[eball]

Thanks for your service to our country!

 

(I assume you have been out of contact in Afghanistan or somewhere since your post would be spot-on 4 years ago, but is pretty off-base in 2013.)

 

gave me quite the chuckle

[Pirate Angel]

Its practice, players get ass chewings from coaches. This particular ass chewing went towards a position of uncertainty whch the media ate up. Dont drink the koolaid on it, all players get ass chewings Marrone is not bringing any players flowers at practice.

[The Senator]

Dave DeCastro would have looked fine in Bills blue.

[bobshaw81]

We'll see who is right when our QB is getting crushed. Keep on drinking the kool aid that gets us to no playoffs in 13 years and failed regime after failed regime. Congrats! And dont stil there on your high horse like your **** dont stink and tell me I'm wrong when this is a message board and everyone has their own opinion. You sir are ok with mediocore and celebrate 7-9 seasons like we made the playoffs and actually have a damn chance to build something special. Until there is commitment on drafting positions of need(not luxury), signing and retaining our best players the BILLS will forever suck like we have.

 

Too many people on this board are ok with mediocore.