Bills trade Kelvin Shephard

[eball]

Back on to the topic of this post - trading Sheppard. This comment from an Indy journalist terrifies me -

 

Now, the Colts parted ways and got a guy in Sheppard who also knows the scheme and gives way more effort. Sheppard is a lot quicker than Hughes despite their similar stature. He won’t be out of position and can defend in coverage.

Read more at http://www.rantsport...UW3J6XGBqi3D.99

 

 

"Sheppard is a lot quicker than Hughes".....Sweet Jebus what did we just trade for? Sheppard appeared to be running in wet cememt most of the time...what's this Hughes going to look like? Hopefully, he will cost us less....

 

Reporter credibility debunked.

[Lurker]

Reporter credibility debunked.

 

Reporter?!. More like this, with less insight...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USHZZ5bwASU

[NoSaint]

 

 

No, everyone doesn't. Even last season, Fitz performed at the level of his contract -- in fact, he posted the highest QB rating of his career (17th in the NFL).

 

It is a fallacy that the Bills drastically overpaid for Fitz when they extended him.

 

The rate that pay has gone up has really warped most fans concept of "average qb pay"

 

Fitz was getting below average pay for his below average play..... But the raw number looked huge.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I tend to agree with you. I think where Nix and past GM's here have failed is not in their ability to scout and evaluate potential players, but in their inability to hire Head Coaches who can also evaluate and develop players. Although Nix has the final say on personnel decisions, we here every year around the draft how player X was drafted because everyone was on board with the selection. This process starts when the coaching staff meets with the scouting dept. and say this is what system we are running and what our needs are. When the scouting dept. and coaching staff meet and start assembling their board prior to the draft this is where i believe the breakdown in judgement occurs. I believe this is how we end up with player's like Maybe being drafted by Juron, and Shep drafted by Gailey and Wanny who was LB coach at the time. Chan was a great X's&O's coach, but horrid at evaluating talent (edwards over fitz, lynch over freddy, ect...) . I'm hopeful that Nix made the right decision with Marrone not just as our HC, but also as an evaluator and developer of talent. I like from Marrone so far, he reminds me of a younger less arrogant Bill Parcells. As far as the selection of EJ3, I considered Nassib as the benchmark that Marrone, Hackett, and the scouting dept. could make comparisons to during evaluations. If Manuel graded out as their highest rated and potential franchise QB, I could careless when he was drafted, so long as they're right. Go Bills!

 

Very solid first post.

 

Welcome aboard.

 

Wawrow seemed to be suggesting it in several posts after the hiring was announced.

 

That's right. I remember now. Thanks Coach.

 

Back on to the topic of this post - trading Sheppard. This comment from an Indy journalist terrifies me -

 

Now, the Colts parted ways and got a guy in Sheppard who also knows the scheme and gives way more effort. Sheppard is a lot quicker than Hughes despite their similar stature. He won’t be out of position and can defend in coverage.

Read more at http://www.rantsport...UW3J6XGBqi3D.99

 

 

"Sheppard is a lot quicker than Hughes".....Sweet Jebus what did we just trade for? Sheppard appeared to be running in wet cememt most of the time...what's this Hughes going to look like? Hopefully, he will cost us less....

 

I would be skeptical of the credibility of this Eric Smith person and that site. Is there some discernible track record that lends itself to thinking he knows what he's talking about? His evaluation of Sheppard immediately casts his "expertise" in doubt.

 

Bottom line, Indy was not the only team that had a first round grade on Jerry Hughes (Buddy said the Bills also did) and Hughes was viewed as a pass rush prospect. Hughes had 4 sacks last year. His problem is not quickness.

 

There are however credible reports which bring to question Hughes' effort and work ethic.

[Thurmal34]

 

 

. Fitz already had the previous season under Gailey when he threw 23 TDs in 14 games. So, in reality, they had 20 games upon which to reflect when making the extension -- not the "5 or 6" you suggest.

 

This.

 

 

 

Why did it need to get done at that time? Why couldn't they have waited?

 

Because he was going to be a free agent.

[Sisyphean Bills]

No, everyone doesn't. Even last season, Fitz performed at the level of his contract -- in fact, he posted the highest QB rating of his career (17th in the NFL).

 

It is a fallacy that the Bills drastically overpaid for Fitz when they extended him.

 

Actually, I wasn't quibbling about the money in the contract. I don't care how much money comes out of Ralph's pocket. The point that I was making was that they locked Fitzpatrick in as THE guy.

[eball]

Actually, I wasn't quibbling about the money in the contract. I don't care how much money comes out of Ralph's pocket. The point that I was making was that they locked Fitzpatrick in as THE guy.

 

This has gone on long enough (truly) but as I and others have pointed out, that contract didn't "lock" the Bills into anything (and Buddy said as much). It was average starter money split into, essentially, two 3-year deals, and the Bills were not harshly penalized for getting out of it when they did.

 

Anyway, it's a new era! Let's all hope Buddy learned from his mistakes and rewrites his GM legacy.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Whether you want to call it "good faith" or "panic", the Bills were premature and did not wait it out for a more complete evaluation. It looks like everyone agrees that they "bought high", at the peak of Fitzpatrick's success. It's not the only time either. See: Jauron, Dick.

 

The Nix/Fitz deal has been beaten to death in this thread, but based on the above quote from Sisyphean Bills, I would say that he was indeed referring to the money as well as the choice.

 

It'd be super great for the owners/GMs if teams could just string guys along without paying them, let's call it "market value" for argument's sake, but at some point you have to pay guys what they are worth. Teams are still in the cat-bird seat ... if the player does not live up to the contract, you can always cut them. If the contract has good enough protections built-in, which I believe the Fiitz deal did, you don't hurt yourself with too much dead money if that option needs to be exercised.

 

And the Jauron extension, while it played out in a similar fashion to how Fitzy's deal went, has about as much to do with the Nix conversation that evolved in this thread as the price of tea in China. It is much more analogous, in my opinion, to the extension the new UB AD gave to Jeff Quinn ... but I digress.

 

At least most seem to agree that Sheppard was not ... not ... not good.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Nix/Fitz deal has been beaten to death in this thread, but based on the above quote from Sisyphean Bills, I would say that he was indeed referring to the money as well as the choice.

 

Do not put words in my mouth. That is not what I meant as I previously explained.

 

This has gone on long enough (truly) but as I and others have pointed out, that contract didn't "lock" the Bills into anything (and Buddy said as much). It was average starter money split into, essentially, two 3-year deals, and the Bills were not harshly penalized for getting out of it when they did.

 

Anyway, it's a new era! Let's all hope Buddy learned from his mistakes and rewrites his GM legacy.

 

There is more than one way to "lock in." Again, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Do not put words in my mouth. That is not what I meant as I previously explained.

 

Well, sir, you basically put words into mine by suggesting that we all agree that Nix "bought high" on Fitz, which I don't agree with. I made the point earlier that if Philly had a similar 'out' built into the Mike Vick deal, I would tend to think that, especially with Chip Kelly in there, they would have exercised the 'out' by now.

 

Hindsight obviously tells us all that Fitz didn't work out for us, but I was OK with the logic of the extension at the time of it based on the need to secure the guy we thought we finally found.

 

I agree that we disagree.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

Very solid first post.

 

 

 

Grammar notwithstanding..

[26CornerBlitz]

I still need to know who this Kelvin Shephard guy is.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Grammar notwithstanding..

 

True, and the spelling is off a bit.

 

But good thoughts well-expressed.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Can we get the OP to correct Shephard to Sheppard in the thread title for the sake of future searches?

 

Glad you suggested this or my search would have been fruitless.

 

I thought it would be fun to see what people were saying about the Sheppard-Hughes trade.

 

I thought Shep was gonna turn the corner for us this year. Unfortunately, it will be with a playoff team (not ours).

 

Why is this a big deal?

 

I must have missed something.

 

 

So, lemme get this straight: Sheppard has more tackles in one season than Hughes has in his entire three-year career and 99% of the folks on this board think it was a good trade? Did someone spike the Kool Aid or something?

 

someone wanted sheppard??......

 

Wow, 10 pages.....?

 

Did we sign him yet? Who's going to Tempo?

 

Great. Trade a semi productive guy for a bust. Just great. This team is getting stupid. If they don't make the playoffs, screw it.

[Bangarang]

Where are the people in this thread calling this trade stupid and saying how much better Sheppard is?

 

Hughes looks great so far and will likely have an important role with us.

 

Meanwhile, is Sheppard even going to make the Colts roster?

[billsfan89]

Where are the people in this thread calling this trade stupid and saying how much better Sheppard is?

 

Hughes looks great so far and will likely have an important role with us.

 

Meanwhile, is Sheppard even going to make the Colts roster?

 

I haven't heard anything about Sheppard good or bad from the Colts seems to be a middling player for them. Loved the trade when it happened still love it now. Only criticism of the trade that was valid was about how thin we were at MLB and trading away an MLB might not be the best idea, my response was always that Sheppard could easily be replaced while Hughes had much more tantalizing potential

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Sixteen victories , a Jerry Hughes film

 

[boyst]

Glad you suggested this or my search would have been fruitless.

 

I thought it would be fun to see what people were saying about the Sheppard-Hughes trade.

Hey, how dare you take what I said seriously. I will have you know that the post quoted above is no different then anything else I have said and therefore must not be taken seriously, as nothing I have ever said was worth more then the previously said item. Red cows are bad.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Where are the people in this thread calling this trade stupid and saying how much better Sheppard is?

 

Hughes looks great so far and will likely have an important role with us.

 

Meanwhile, is Sheppard even going to make the Colts roster?

 

Shep is an decent MLB.... When he was actually in the game instead of that scheitty nickel he was fairly good at hitting the hole and slowing down the running game.

[GG]

Sixteen victories , a Jerry Hughes film

 

The one starring Anthony Michael Rhinehart?

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Shep is an decent MLB.... When he was actually in the game instead of that scheitty nickel he was fairly good at hitting the hole and slowing down the running game.

 

In my opinion, to say or imply that Kelvin Sheppard is a capable/decent MLB is to basically say "I really never focused on him." With a lot of NFL work now on tape, the guy has made almost no plays of significance.

 

Last sunday, I watched the replay of the Bills-Vikes tilt. In just a few plays, I came away quite impressed with what I saw out of Arthur Moats, who was filling in for Kiko. He took on and shed blockers, he sniffed out and disrupted a screen play, and looked quick flowing to the plays that went toward the sideline.

 

So low and behold, Sunday Night Football brought us the Colts visiting the Giants. And for a time, I keyed in on #52 Sheppard, who saw some early snaps with the 1's. He was as plodding and as invisible as he ever looked for the 1.5 years he started for our beloved Bills. One play in particular sums him up ... a sweep to the defense's right, Sheppard, playing basically LILB, flows over unblocked, and is able to meet the RB Wilson about three yards upfield, but does not wrap/bring him down, and Wilson squirts loose for about five more yards.

 

Remember when Poz took the money and went down to play in Jax, and lots of people rationalized his loss by saying "aah, he made the majority of his tackes after ~7 yard gains anyways"? Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

If #52 starts for the Colts for any length of time, I will be shocked, but I doubt he will produce much. And if he gets Maybin-ed on cut-down day, I will not be very surprised at all. And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

Edited August 24, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Alaska Darin]

And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

100% concur.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

In my opinion, to say or imply that Kelvin Sheppard is a capable/decent MLB is to basically say "I really never focused on him." With a lot of NFL work now on tape, the guy has made almost no plays of significance.

 

Last sunday, I watched the replay of the Bills-Vikes tilt. In just a few plays, I came away quite impressed with what I saw out of Arthur Moats, who was filling in for Kiko. He took on and shed blockers, he sniffed out and disrupted a screen play, and looked quick flowing to the plays that went toward the sideline.

 

So low and behold, Sunday Night Football brought us the Colts visiting the Giants. And for a time, I keyed in on #52 Sheppard, who saw some early snaps with the 1's. He was as plodding and as invisible as he ever looked for the 1.5 years he started for our beloved Bills. One play in particular sums him up ... a sweep to the defense's right, Sheppard, playing basically LILB, flows over unblocked, and is able to meet the RB Wilson about three yards upfield, but does not wrap/bring him down, and Wilson squirts loose for about five more yards.

 

Remember when Poz took the money and went down to play in Jax, and lots of people rationalized his loss by saying "aah, he made the majority of his tackes after ~7 yard gains anyways"? Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

If #52 starts for the Colts for any length of time, I will be shocked, but I doubt he will produce much. And if he gets Maybin-ed on cut-down day, I will not be very surprised at all. And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

 

Good post.

[paupmvp1995]

In my opinion, to say or imply that Kelvin Sheppard is a capable/decent MLB is to basically say "I really never focused on him." With a lot of NFL work now on tape, the guy has made almost no plays of significance.

 

Last sunday, I watched the replay of the Bills-Vikes tilt. In just a few plays, I came away quite impressed with what I saw out of Arthur Moats, who was filling in for Kiko. He took on and shed blockers, he sniffed out and disrupted a screen play, and looked quick flowing to the plays that went toward the sideline.

 

So low and behold, Sunday Night Football brought us the Colts visiting the Giants. And for a time, I keyed in on #52 Sheppard, who saw some early snaps with the 1's. He was as plodding and as invisible as he ever looked for the 1.5 years he started for our beloved Bills. One play in particular sums him up ... a sweep to the defense's right, Sheppard, playing basically LILB, flows over unblocked, and is able to meet the RB Wilson about three yards upfield, but does not wrap/bring him down, and Wilson squirts loose for about five more yards.

 

Remember when Poz took the money and went down to play in Jax, and lots of people rationalized his loss by saying "aah, he made the majority of his tackes after ~7 yard gains anyways"? Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

If #52 starts for the Colts for any length of time, I will be shocked, but I doubt he will produce much. And if he gets Maybin-ed on cut-down day, I will not be very surprised at all. And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

My friend ur observations on Sheppard and the trade show you understand the game of football quite well. I was ecstatic when we got rid of Sheppard. He does not have the explosiveness, athleticism or instincts to play linebacker in the NFL. Anyone who says otherwise was not paying attention to his game the past two seasons. Hughes will be a stud for us like he was at TCU.

[Doc]

In my opinion, to say or imply that Kelvin Sheppard is a capable/decent MLB is to basically say "I really never focused on him." With a lot of NFL work now on tape, the guy has made almost no plays of significance.

 

Last sunday, I watched the replay of the Bills-Vikes tilt. In just a few plays, I came away quite impressed with what I saw out of Arthur Moats, who was filling in for Kiko. He took on and shed blockers, he sniffed out and disrupted a screen play, and looked quick flowing to the plays that went toward the sideline.

 

So low and behold, Sunday Night Football brought us the Colts visiting the Giants. And for a time, I keyed in on #52 Sheppard, who saw some early snaps with the 1's. He was as plodding and as invisible as he ever looked for the 1.5 years he started for our beloved Bills. One play in particular sums him up ... a sweep to the defense's right, Sheppard, playing basically LILB, flows over unblocked, and is able to meet the RB Wilson about three yards upfield, but does not wrap/bring him down, and Wilson squirts loose for about five more yards.

 

Remember when Poz took the money and went down to play in Jax, and lots of people rationalized his loss by saying "aah, he made the majority of his tackes after ~7 yard gains anyways"? Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

If #52 starts for the Colts for any length of time, I will be shocked, but I doubt he will produce much. And if he gets Maybin-ed on cut-down day, I will not be very surprised at all. And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

Hughes is gravy because Sheppard was going to be cut. Great trade on the Bills' part.

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

This has been a Great Thread.... Been a lot of fun to follow!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Well, sir, you basically put words into mine by suggesting that we all agree that Nix "bought high" on Fitz, which I don't agree with.

Sorry. I thought that's what you meant. I wasn't trying to pointedly contradict your post.

I made the point earlier that if Philly had a similar 'out' built into the Mike Vick deal, I would tend to think that, especially with Chip Kelly in there, they would have exercised the 'out' by now.

 

Hindsight obviously tells us all that Fitz didn't work out for us, but I was OK with the logic of the extension at the time of it based on the need to secure the guy we thought we finally found.

 

I agree that we disagree.

 

So, you were good with the logic the Bills employed to extend Dick Jauron after a run of victories as well, then?

[JohnC]

So, you were good with the logic the Bills employed to extend Dick Jauron after a run of victories as well, then?

 

With respect to the extension of Fitz there was nothing unreasonable with it assuming that there was a priority plan to get a legitimate qb prospect in the pipeline. The strategy for Nix should have been let's buy some time until we find a more credible franchise qb. The GM should have demonstrated a greater degree of urgency in that quest instead of being so passive in addressing an obvious critical need. What made the qb issue most frustrating is that the Nix regime passed on good prospects that were available after the first round, Kaepernick and Wilson.

 

The Dick Jauron extension was both a comical and sad exhibitiion of how dysfunctional this ludicrous franchise was. The organization gave him an extension yet refused to officially acknowledge that they even gave it to him because the team was on one of its standard losing streaks after the signing. Why the organization prematurely gave him an extension before his contract was up is a mystery to me. As you noted it probably was due to the team's early season success that frightened the $$$ conscious organization to expedite the extension so DJ wouldn't have greater negotiating leverage if the Bills had a good season. Regardless, it was one miscalulation added on to a mountain of miscalculations that has straitjacketed this franchise. To make matters worse Jauron was given more authority on personnel matters. Crazy!

 

In my opinion, to say or imply that Kelvin Sheppard is a capable/decent MLB is to basically say "I really never focused on him." With a lot of NFL work now on tape, the guy has made almost no plays of significance.

 

Last sunday, I watched the replay of the Bills-Vikes tilt. In just a few plays, I came away quite impressed with what I saw out of Arthur Moats, who was filling in for Kiko. He took on and shed blockers, he sniffed out and disrupted a screen play, and looked quick flowing to the plays that went toward the sideline.

 

So low and behold, Sunday Night Football brought us the Colts visiting the Giants. And for a time, I keyed in on #52 Sheppard, who saw some early snaps with the 1's. He was as plodding and as invisible as he ever looked for the 1.5 years he started for our beloved Bills. One play in particular sums him up ... a sweep to the defense's right, Sheppard, playing basically LILB, flows over unblocked, and is able to meet the RB Wilson about three yards upfield, but does not wrap/bring him down, and Wilson squirts loose for about five more yards.

 

Remember when Poz took the money and went down to play in Jax, and lots of people rationalized his loss by saying "aah, he made the majority of his tackes after ~7 yard gains anyways"? Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

If #52 starts for the Colts for any length of time, I will be shocked, but I doubt he will produce much. And if he gets Maybin-ed on cut-down day, I will not be very surprised at all. And regardless of what he does for Indy, any play that Jerry Hughes makes for Buffalo in 2013 will be a bonus, because getting Shepp off our roster is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. The move really gave me hope that Marrone and Pettine might actually know what the hell they are doing.

 

Excellent post. Well thought out and stated.

 

Well, I think it is fair to say that Paul Poszluzny was/is fifty times the NFL linebacker that Sheppard has proven to be.

 

I don't want to quibble with you but I disagree with your Paul P comparison. Paul P is 60 times a better player. A MLB without good instincts is like a surgeon who has clunky hands.

[artmalibu]

Its kind of funny no on talks about how we let Poz leave. He look pretty good when he played against us and wouldnt have cost the world to keep him!!!

 

But the Sheppard trade looks like it was a brilliant move. We got a player who looks like a play maker and will fit the pressure scheme well, and have upgraded the ilb position through draft and from within.

 

Good thing Buddy was asleep at the wheel.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Thanks for the compliments on the previous post - Sheppard was an enigma to me ... and Searcy is filling the vacancy more and more.

 

So, you were good with the logic the Bills employed to extend Dick Jauron after a run of victories as well, then?

 

So, you got all snippy earlier in the thread when I tried to put words in your mouth by quoting you. And yet you now decide to speak for me, out of left field, by concluding that my backing of the Fitz deal (at the time) equates to me also being sold on the logic of the Dick Jauron extension at that time?

 

Nice reach, but they are apples and oranges.

 

I have equated the Jauron extension more with the one that my alma-mater, UB, gave Jeff Quinn at the tail end of a theretofore unprecedented three-game win streak. And after which they were promptly crushed by a Bowling Green team coached by Dave Clawson, a former UB assistant back in my days there.

 

Coach Quinn's teams have often been out-executed, poorly prepared, and other than giving Georgia a fight for a half, have laid a lot of eggs in his three years. People I know who are familiar with the program have characterized him as basically a blowhard who has ridden Brian Kelly's coattails. Remember how well the Bearcats played in the 2010 Sugar Bowl he coached when Kelly had already jumped to ND? Cincinnati barely registered a pulse in that game against Florida; Tebow shredded them in Urb's final contest before re-evaluating things. Licata may save his arse, but there are no more excuses after this year.

 

So to me, a premature extension of a coach going nowhere is much different than paying your declared starting QB essentially market value for the position. And none of this has a whole lot to do with the merits of Kelvin Sheppard as an NFL linebacker.

 

By the way, speaking of declared starting QBs, Vick may have the Philly gig for now, but we all know his ribs will be bruised by week 3. And I will guarantee that Chip finds justification to somehow take a look-see at what either Foles or Barkley can do for his offense when regular season bullets are a-flying.

Edited August 24, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

I think Jerry Hughes has been one of the best surprises defensively that we've had so far, second only to kiko.

You need second stringers that you can plug in there fresh that can wreak some havoc, ala mike lodish and and mark pike.

[Pete]

I think Jerry Hughes has been one of the best surprises defensively that we've had so far, second only to kiko.

You need second stringers that you can plug in there fresh that can wreak some havoc, ala mike lodish and and mark pike.

depth. This team has depth. We will have a legitimate 53 NFL roster for the first time in awhile

[Leelee Phoenix]

Its kind of funny no on talks about how we let Poz leave. He look pretty good when he played against us and wouldnt have cost the world to keep him!!!

Poz was among the worst LBs in the league last year.

 

BUF made the correct move in not paying him, no matter what scheme they wanted to use.

[Fortunesmith]

Poz was among the worst LBs in the league last year.

 

BUF made the correct move in not paying him, no matter what scheme they wanted to use.

 

Agreed. Poz frequently overruns plays and is horrendous is coverage. He's gotten no better since leaving Buffalo.