Homey D. Clown Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/30/signature-stats-first-downs-allowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Says the guy who started the thead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Byrd and Whither play two different positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 These stats are interesting. Based on what I have seen, I would view Whitner more of an average/middle-of-the-pack safety, not one of the worst in the league. But as I've said in other posts, if I had my choice, I'd take Wilson, Byrd, and Searcy over Whitner. The stats confirm as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The way I look at it, he is the 25th best safety in the league. I don't know why people hate him so much. He was always a good teammate and a leader on the team. He might not deserved to be drafted where he was but that is not his fault. He is gone, let him be. Wish him the best and move forward. Good luck Donte in the Superbowl. am rooting for the Ravens but I wish him the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Donte would try to refute your arguments but he is too busy preparing for the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 These stats are interesting. Based on what I have seen, I would view Whitner more of an average/middle-of-the-pack safety, not one of the worst in the league. But as I've said in other posts, if I had my choice, I'd take Wilson, Byrd, and Searcy over Whitner. The stats confirm as much. And you may be right. Stats only tell part of the story, particularly in football. To grade guys, merely on stats, is to pretend that the 10 players on the field with him have no impact on his game. How many times has a guy put up a great season, signed with another team, and disappeared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Wow not only was Byrd up at #4 but G.W. was at #10 . Thats not bad at all 2 in the top 10 SWEET !!! I bet Pettine is lovin that GO BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Apparently you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Not to defend Whitner, but your analysis is wrong. The second chart is far more useful given that it's based on actual percentages. Whitner is not in the bottom ten on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Excellenet post! Especially impressive for Byrd and Wilson to be on this list when they weren't often helped by a pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyebeem99 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/niners/2013/01/31/donte-whitner-chris-culliver-gay/1880449/ but he accepts gays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 stats don't lie hahhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa oh oh oh ... hahahahahhahhahhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i cant breathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's too bad we won't have Byrd either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I love that Eric Berry is in the bottom ten on this list and made the pro bowl over Byrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Donte would try to refute your arguments but he is too busy preparing for the Super Bowl. Naahhh, he's too busy making claims he can't back up on twitter... hahhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa oh oh oh ... hahahahahhahhahhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i cant breathe I rarely comment on the utterly stupid comments made around here, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 And you may be right. Stats only tell part of the story, particularly in football. To grade guys, merely on stats, is to pretend that the 10 players on the field with him have no impact on his game. How many times has a guy put up a great season, signed with another team, and disappeared? Also, how many safeties have had great seasons on bad defenses? Donte would try to refute your arguments but he is too busy preparing for the Super Bowl. While at the same time having to decline his first Pro Bowl invitation. Excellenet post! Kollege Studnet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The way I look at it, he is the 25th best safety in the league. I don't know why people hate him so much. He was always a good teammate and a leader on the team. He might not deserved to be drafted where he was but that is not his fault. He is gone, let him be. Wish him the best and move forward. Good luck Donte in the Superbowl. am rooting for the Ravens but I wish him the best. People are jealous because he is on a SB bound team. Bills fans always want to see former Bills suck and fade away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 He's just in the wrong system. People are jealous because he is on a SB bound team. Bills fans always want to see former Bills suck and fade away. Not true. I rooted for Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher wherever they went. Whitner rejected more money from the Bills and then cried about the many ways in which the Bills did him wrong, despite making him a top-ten pick and offering him the most money in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 hahhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa oh oh oh ... hahahahahhahhahhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i cant breathe :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 He's just in the wrong system. Not true. I rooted for Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher wherever they went. Whitner rejected more money from the Bills and then cried about the many ways in which the Bills did him wrong, despite making him a top-ten pick and offering him the most money in free agency. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKelso'sHelmet Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 he's sucked from day one, and sucked consistently. solid against the run when in the box, terrible at making open field tackles, and terrible in coverage. what else is there to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Stats.....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hater Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 People are jealous because he is on a SB bound team. Bills fans always want to see former Bills suck and fade away. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 He's strong against the run and his weakness is pass coverage. Is that really a secret to anyone? He was over drafted because jauron needed a versatile stud @ SS to make his 4-3 cover-2 work. And he's just not that guy like a bob sanders. IMO He's a lot better off in Frisco's 3-4 base where there's another LB to help cover the TE and patrol close to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 At least Donte made it to a Superbowl.... Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 But as I've said in other posts, if I had my choice, I'd take Wilson, Byrd, and Searcy over Whitner. The stats confirm as much. I'm not sure anyone who watched the Bills defense play this season would want Wilson playing over Whitner. Wilson was terrible. He never made a big play that I can remember. He couldn't cover TEs or running backs over the middle. He was basically a massively undersized linebacker making tackles downfield. Forget what the stats say. To paraphrase Groucho Marx: "Who are you going to believe, the stats or your own eyes?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 He's just in the wrong system. Not true. I rooted for Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher wherever they went. Whitner rejected more money from the Bills and then cried about the many ways in which the Bills did him wrong, despite making him a top-ten pick and offering him the most money in free agency. This is so untrue. Buddy did not offer Whitner a contract. The only team that offered him a contract was the Bengals before the 49ers gave him an offer at the last minute. I don't know why Whitner picked the 49ers instead of the Bengals. At least Donte made it to a Superbowl.... Just saying... And the Pro-Bowl. Kudos to Whitner for embracing the 49ers contract and working hard to be a starter on that stellar defense. May be he got lucky that the 49ers turned it around in the year he joined them. May be he was part of the success. Who knows and who cares...Good for Whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Lee Evans was not a true #1 BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Lee Evans was not a true #1 BTW. We were left with the left-overs when the Steelers snatched Big Ben right in front of our nose. After that it doesn't matter whether you are having your dinner at CiCi's or Pizza Hut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Link? I posted the link in the other Whitner thread. It's there, too busy for me to dig it up and post it again. This is so untrue. Buddy did not offer Whitner a contract. The only team that offered him a contract was the Bengals before the 49ers gave him an offer at the last minute. I don't know why Whitner picked the 49ers instead of the Bengals. Again, I posted a link that says otherwise in the other Whitner thread. Feel free to disbelieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Only a Bills fan would feel the need to slam a guy who did his best in Jauron's craptacular Tampa 2 scheme. All Whitner did was make the tackles missed by the 7 guys in front of him game after game, year after year!! Yeah, 49er fans hate the guy for making vicious hits, like the one that knocked Saints RB Pierre Thomas out of the game in the NFC championship game in 2011. You know, the hit that also also caused a turnover with the Saints in the Niners redzone. What does it say about said Bills fan who still wants to slam a guy who made first string pro bowl, and is now going to the Super Bowl with his new team. Who can't let it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 http://www.usatoday....er-gay/1880449/ but he accepts gays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Dude Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Wow not only was Byrd up at #4 but G.W. was at #10 . Thats not bad at all 2 in the top 10 SWEET !!! I bet Pettine is lovin that GO BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Only a Bills fan would feel the need to slam a guy who did his best in Jauron's craptacular Tampa 2 scheme. All Whitner did was make the tackles missed by the 7 guys in front of him game after game, year after year!! Yeah, 49er fans hate the guy for making vicious hits, like the one that knocked Saints RB Pierre Thomas out of the game in the NFC championship game in 2011. You know, the hit that also also caused a turnover with the Saints in the Niners redzone. What does it say about said Bills fan who still wants to slam a guy who made first string pro bowl, and is now going to the Super Bowl with his new team. Who can't let it go? Whitner was terrible. His coverage is shotty! He's often out of position. He's always going for the big hit instead of trying to make a tackle and whiffs a lot. Should you cheer that helmet to helmet hit in your youtube video? The guy could have wound up like Kevin Everett or has everyone already forgotten. There's no way this guy deserved big money. Oh And the pro bowl selections are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorWideRight Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) For all you "BooHoo, I wish we still had 'lil donte on our team" guys around here, maybe a little stats lesson is in order, and we can all finally put to bed the issue that the Bills should have kept him. In what I have personally witnessed, and now seen in actual stats, he is LUCKY that even our fanbase thinks he is a "middle of the pack" safety, the stats prove he was the 7th WORST safety to allow TDs against him personally. stats don't lie, let's all agree that the front office did the right thing for once and let that useless football bat walk. Linkie-poo: https://www.profootb...lowed-safeties/ for comparison, our own Jairus Byrd ranked in the top 5 BEST. He sucks, he's gone, Can we all let 'lil donte go now?? Can you believe how pitiful Ralph and this organization is? The Bills drafted this guy in the FIRST round!!!! Look at how many other 1st and 2nd rounders the Bills missed on. Does Maybin ring a bell. If that doesn't ring a bell, how about Aaron Williams? Everyone in the Bills scouting department and front office should have been FIRED! But they weren't. Old senile Ralph just keeps these guys because they work cheap. That's why this organization is the worst in the NFL, you get what you pay for. No playoffs for 13 years and counting. After next season it will be FOURTEEN years of no post season. What a JOKE! Edited February 2, 2013 by NorWideRight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Byrd 5th Wilson 10th best Safeties in this metric. Explains how bad our corners performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Not to defend Whitner, but your analysis is wrong. The second chart is far more useful given that it's based on actual percentages. Whitner is not in the bottom ten on that one. You are right: the second chart is the correct one to use. I noticed that Whitner was neither on the chart for the ten worst pass coverage safeties, nor the list of the ten best safeties. However, the lists in question lump strong and free safeties together. The league has only 32 starting strong safeties, but 64 starting safeties (free and strong lumped together). The lists inform us that, among those 64 starting safeties, there are at least 10 guys worse than he is in pass coverage. But if you were to look just at the 32 starting strong safeties, could you find at least 10 other guys worse than Whitner in pass coverage? This brings me back to the subject of the first list. Yes, I realize that the first list is flawed, because it artificially punishes guys who were on the field a lot. But even after making allowances for that, one still has to consider that according to that admittedly flawed list, Whitner was among the ten worst safeties (out of 64) in pass coverage. If a flawed method puts him among the bottom ten among the 64 safeties, it's quite possible--even probable--that a non-flawed method would put him among the bottom-ten among the 32 strong safeties. Yes, the first list punishes guys for getting excessive amounts of playing time. If Whitner was getting significantly more playing time than most other SSs around the league, then perhaps his presence on the first list could be explained away on that basis. It seems very unlikely that Whitner is getting significantly more playing time than most other starting SSs. Whitner's presence on that first list should help shatter the myth that he got to the Pro Bowl by playing at (or anywhere near) a Pro Bowl level; or that he's anything other than a liability in pass coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) This brings me back to the subject of the first list. Yes, I realize that the first list is flawed, because it artificially punishes guys who were on the field a lot. But even after making allowances for that, one still has to consider that according to that admittedly flawed list, Whitner was among the ten worst safeties (out of 64) in pass coverage. If a flawed method puts him among the bottom ten among the 64 safeties, it's quite possible--even probable--that a non-flawed method would put him among the bottom-ten among the 32 strong safeties. Yes, the first list punishes guys for getting excessive amounts of playing time. If Whitner was getting significantly more playing time than most other SSs around the league, then perhaps his presence on the first list could be explained away on that basis. It seems very unlikely that Whitner is getting significantly more playing time than most other starting SSs. Um....okay. Damned lies and statistics as the saying goes. In the better percentage based list there were 2 safeties that made this years pro bowl(Berry, Landry) and 2 past pro bowlers(Mikell, Harper....Harper having made 2). Even in the base numbers list there were 2 safeties that made this years pro bowl(Berry, Whitner) and 1 past pro bowler(Mikell). I tend to think that the accumulation of those stats cannot conclude a safeties relative abilities.....and perhaps there are many other factors which contribute to them which have little to do with the players relative abilities. Edited February 3, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 You are right: the second chart is the correct one to use. I noticed that Whitner was neither on the chart for the ten worst pass coverage safeties, nor the list of the ten best safeties. However, the lists in question lump strong and free safeties together. The league has only 32 starting strong safeties, but 64 starting safeties (free and strong lumped together). The lists inform us that, among those 64 starting safeties, there are at least 10 guys worse than he is in pass coverage. But if you were to look just at the 32 starting strong safeties, could you find at least 10 other guys worse than Whitner in pass coverage? This brings me back to the subject of the first list. Yes, I realize that the first list is flawed, because it artificially punishes guys who were on the field a lot. But even after making allowances for that, one still has to consider that according to that admittedly flawed list, Whitner was among the ten worst safeties (out of 64) in pass coverage. If a flawed method puts him among the bottom ten among the 64 safeties, it's quite possible--even probable--that a non-flawed method would put him among the bottom-ten among the 32 strong safeties. Yes, the first list punishes guys for getting excessive amounts of playing time. If Whitner was getting significantly more playing time than most other SSs around the league, then perhaps his presence on the first list could be explained away on that basis. It seems very unlikely that Whitner is getting significantly more playing time than most other starting SSs. Whitner's presence on that first list should help shatter the myth that he got to the Pro Bowl by playing at (or anywhere near) a Pro Bowl level; or that he's anything other than a liability in pass coverage. In the spirit of a "A Christmas Story" at one of our late season tailgates, I described Whitner as a "toadie". That's what he is. He is a undersized player with a very big mouth who doesn't get as exposed and will come up and make the play he absolutely should when he is protected by a great front 7. The statistics discussed here certainly support this, though watching so many Niners games the past couple years and having a clue what I was watching created my opinion. Put him back on the Bills in Wannstedt's horrible defense and he would have been back carrying George Wilson's bags again. The Bills made a disturbing mistake when they drafted him. Bob Sanders and Troy Polomalu were great, frontline defensive players that happened to be undersized and the Bills for some reason thought there just must be more a bunch more of them where that came from! Wrong. The equivalent this year would be drafting a far less qualified 5'9" QB and expecting him to go Russell Wilson on the league. For all the people who say "hey, it's not Whitner's fault he was overdrafted, we should show him love" it is important to point out that he has never said he was....you know....... MAYBE not good enough to be drafted eighth overall. More importantly, he was quite determined to NOT take a paycut after his outlandish $6M per year rookie contract was up. Much of which he earned on the bench where he couldn't beat out an ex-street free agent...a slow footed ex-wide receiver named George Wilson. The point is, he absolutely did not concur with his apologists. In fact, he would probably slap the taste out your mouth if you went up to him and told him you always liked him as a player it's not his fault he wasn't worthy of being drafted so high. He was just drafted into the wrong SYSTEM, don't you see? A system without 6 or 7 oustanding players in the front...well...7. I really don't get the attempts at man-love for this guy. He was a big part of the problem when he was here AND he was a blowhard on top of that. He is a spare part and he would have never accepted that role here if he hadn't been humbled by the disinterest in him in free agency. He can eat a d*ck as far as I care and I normally don't care too much about player character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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