my skepticism

[stinky finger]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

What stones were left unturned? It seems this organization is headed in a direction that is atypical from the past. How can THAT not be good?

 

So you have some questions.....you cover the team.....please ask them and get back to us.

[PromoTheRobot]

Did Marrone have interviews lined up with other NFL teams? Would that suggest that others besides Brandon thought he was worth considering? It's also curious that none of the big name retreads, other than Reid who went directly to the Chiefs, were hired so far. So at least the Bills were ahead of the curve for once. I guess no one remembers 3 years ago when the Bills couldn't buy an interview with a coaching prospect.

 

PTR

[Ronin]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

Brandon's a marketer John, and that's exactly what this was, a carefully crafted marketing set-up. You hit the nail on the head here.

 

When the best thing that can be said about the changes are that they're "in a different direction," well, then clearly it has marketing at its core. Hiring high school coaches would have been in a different direction too, that wouldn't make it a sound move.

 

Should we have expected different from a marketing person? (semi-rhetorical)

 

I would say that it has largely worked, wouldn't you? All that the organization needed was for fans to cut them some more slack instead of standing up and telling them to go pound sand in a proverbial manner of speaking. I think that the reaction that they've gotten was about as favorable as it could have been short of hiring Lovie Smith, someone that took a similar team and averaged 9-7 with it, wouldn't you.

 

So, without having given up more control than Brandon & Co. would have liked, they've gotten the best reaction that they could have, fans are apparently ready to empty their wallets again next season if for no other reason than "it's different."

 

So from that perspective, I'd say mission accomplished by the marketers.

Edited January 19, 2013 by TaskersGhost

[4BillsintheBurgh]

I think what you're saying jw is Brandon is making his mark already, and I doubt the cloaking device will be getting better from your standpoint. I believe (hope) Russ has learned to stay out of the personnel decisions from his time at gm and he was pretty adamant during the presser regarding his involvement. Probably because he wanted to make his mark with those first round picks and it didn't work out so well.

 

As for the coaches, I think the ownership situation is still tenuous enough that the "retirees" are not attracted. Also, why take a job where the organization has shown they will not do what it takes given the fact that we haven't been in the playoffs for so long? I think some very qualified people would look at the risk and say why bother. I don't think OBD will have enough time to prove they can put a winning organization together before the ownership changes and the coaches that have their choice probably don't even want to get involved. At least the roster brought in some interviews, but I think we're still 4 starters away from the playoffs and a few more from contending for the super bowl.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is either we're going to catch lightening in the bottle or just be bumping along as we have been for the last 13 years. This job is not one of the premier jobs in the nfl at this point.

 

Thanks for spending time with the rabble.

[Dr. Trooth]

I'll say it again.... ain't no wins and aint no losses in the offseason. We don't know what we've got. Would you buy a house without being certain of it's structure, quality, the investment it may need? Same thing with the Bills. By the beginning of October we'll have a good look at what this team is and where it is going. Until then, don't sip the koolaid, don't buy tix, don't buy Bills merchandise, because folks, you don't know what the product is that you are buying.

 

The Bills FO has put it up our a$$es for the past 13 years. Make these bastards work their a$$es off and earn back our trust and confidence. There is only one way to do that.... Ws.

[JohnC]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

What I find more intriguing and substative than the Marrone hiring is who had the final authority in the hiring and decision-making process. Who made the decision to hire him? Of course this is a collaborative effort. But someone has the final say that this deal is sealed. Since the Brandon elevation is Nix the actual GM or is Whaley the person in authorty? Is Nix being phased out after this draft; how much influence does he have in this draft and selection of players? If Nix has the same authority in this draft then what has really changed?

 

Who cares that the company line is tightly controlled? That is the norm in the business of the NFL. What did you expect? If you were working in the New England market how much useful information would you get from Belichick and his crew?

 

John, dig, and then dig some more. Asking the standard trite questions is going to get you and your colleagues the same boring prepared answers. Dig John, dig beneath the surface. The staged press conferences with the same boring answers are in general useless. Dig, John, dig. You are not going learn anything useful from the stage at OBD.

 

Regurgitating the company line is not going to inform your readers. Find out what is going on with hound dog effort. Do more sniffing. Find out what is really goiing on by listening to the second and third level people. That is where the bone of actual information is. You will find nothing but fluff from the stage at OBD.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JohnC

[boyst]

Thinking on this and trying to draw in what JW did not saying can only wonder if...

-thedefensive conversion to 3-4 could be a factor in his frustration

-the parade of coaches to join the staff when some good ones were available that succeeded with players that were not expected to do much or had little success prior - Chandler, Jones, etc.

-Brandom talking to talk that his FO will surpass all means necessary for success yet not being transparent in their doing so, especially when there is glaring evidence they may not have done so...

 

 

Nonetheless, thanks for spending time with us folk JW. Great post and thoughts... especially for 2:07am!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

If by mid April after combines, senior games, etc, Nassib were to be projected as a mid- 1st rounder, would the board then explode, and if so why?? No reason then! If he's still viewed as a 3rd rounder and they draft at #8, then yes, but really doubt that's going to happen. Is he going to jump to 1st rounder, not clue at all, would be a stretch, but considering the extra value put on QB's and wouldn't shock me to see the top rated QB's, Barkley and Smith drop, could see it happening.

 

One problem the Bill's will have is everyone is viewing the Bill's as a team likely to draft him likely at the expected level he's ranked at. If another team is also eying him, could see a number of trades to jump up over the Bill's. So if they do want him, they likely will have to select him earlier than he's viewed to go and "overpay" for him. If he's expected to go 3rd round, they may have to trade up to the bottom of round 2 to make sure they have him.

 

 

If they draft Nassib at #8 I think this board will explode with all the anger and disgust. I won't mind, it just means that the Bills are putting all their eggs in one basket, and it will be interesting to see how the season develops. They will all sink or swim together.

[hondo in seattle]

JW... You are my favorite author of Bills articles. You are informed, objective and possess good writing skills. But I can't share your recent skepticism.

 

Regards the "no stone left unturned" comment. I'm giving Russ and Buddy the benefit of the doubt on this one. I assume they began their due diligence weeks - if not months - before the season ended. Over time, they whittled down the list till they were left with the names we know they actually interviewed. Considering neither Cowher, nor Dungy, nor Gruden were coming out of retirement to take over the Bills, it was a solid list of names.

 

Personally, I'm happy with the choice. The more "proven" guys weren't compelling options. Lovie has only been to the playoffs 3 times in the past 6 seasons. Whise didn't make it once in the past 3. These guys aren't Lombardi. They aren't even Levy. Marrone could be - it's a roll of the dice. And as an outsider looking in, Marrone seems a safer roll of the dice than Chip Kelly.

 

As for Brandon 'marketing' the coaching staff. Of course, Russ is doing this. He's a marketer. It's what he does. The more successfully he sells the coaching staff, the more tickets he sells, the greater the chances the Bills remain in Buffalo.

 

Even Peter King sounds more optimistic about the Bills than you do. I do recall a few people - Bill Cowher noticeably amongst them - praising the Bills move in hiring Chan to lead the team 3 years ago. But it seems to me that Marrone's hiring is getting far more positive buzz from the greater football community. The people who know Marrone seem to genuinely believe he'll be a good HC.

 

I'm not especially optimistic or pessimistic because I personally don't know enough about Marrone, Pettine, et al to confidently predict the outcome of their hiring. I am happy, though, that Brandon & Nix made some much needed changes. And there are enough reasons to believe the new coaching staff will succeed where the old one failed that I'm excited to see what 2013 might have in store for us.

Edited January 19, 2013 by hondo in seattle

[Lurker]

http://api.ning.com/...2_tih_efile.jpg

 

plus a dash of...

 

http://4.bp.blogspot...sour grapes.png

 

equals...

 

http://2.bp.blogspot...GWHOOP_logo.jpg

[nucci]

What about Reich or AVP for QB coach? Two ex-Bills with playing experience, smarts and coaching experience who bring much more to the table than Hackett.

Do you recall when AVP was OC for us? No thanks

[Kelly the Dog]

My first choice was Chip Kelly. None of the other candidates excited me. From a best of the worst standpoint, i thought and posted that I wouldn't mind Lovie ONLY if he brought in a dynamic OC and let him run the offense. The hiring of Marrone, combined with the hiring of Pettine, still has me thinking this is the second best combination of all of the coaching hires, and even closer to Chip Kelly than before, considering that I think Pettine a much, much better hire than Todd Grantham for the Eagles.

 

And regardless of the no stone left unturned argument. This board, especially in the last few years (okay, decade), mostly a "show me the baby" mindset. Show me results. The result of this search, right now, to me, is they did pretty good overall if not very good, considering what happened elsewhere. They didn't get the best guy but they did well, IMO.

 

We'll see the results over the next few years.

 

Frankly, I think that Russ Brandon is great at his job, but I hardly believe a word he says publicly.

 

I was going to start a thread a week or two ago after I heard him say something that I thought wasn't very wise to say publicly, regardless of its validity and practice. On WGR, Brandon said something about "I've always told our guys (the Bills brass) I want vigorous internal arguments, and external unity." I can't recall the exact words but that is what he said. He wants them to express their opinions, even if it's in opposition to him and others behind closed doors, but wants to appear in public that everyone is on the same page.

 

In other words, you can't believe a word he says in public, and I don't.

 

I understand it. I know it goes on, and perhaps it should. But it's basically admitting publicly they are lying to us. I don't think he should have said it at all.

 

Again, I like Brandon and think he's great at his job. You just can't trust what he says in public because he's a marketer and PR man at heart and also puts things in the most glowing terms regardless of the facts and truth.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

I too hope Marrone succeeds, and suffer from skepticism as the coaching staff fills with Syracuse cronies of limited NFL experience.

 

As to" the clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning" (emphasis mine), isn't that the job of the news media - your job - to turn the glare of objective questioning on the situation? Everyone everywhere desires to put their best foot forward and control how they present themselves, that's only natural. Are the Bills doing something that prevents the news media from doing their job?

[Lurker]

But it's basically admitting publicly they are lying to us. I don't think he should have said it at all.

Why does it have to be lying?

 

I take that quote to mean that after a consensus decision is made (based on internal give and take), OBD personnel should publically stand behind it. Nothing more than any other heirarchical organization would do...

[mead107]

Well, they did interview Kelly, Horton, Whiz, and Lovie.

I don't think they rushed to judgement. That said, Marrone was most definitely a convenient choice.

 

Norv wasn't going to get a HC gig. Neither was Crennel or Shurmur.

Reid made a beeline to KC and stuck in their dartboard like a javelin thrown across the room.

Mularkey wasn't out of a job yet, and we would no sooner hire him than rehire Chan.

 

So, unless you're talking about bringing former HCs out of retirement, Gruden, The Chin, Schott, Reeves, Parcells, JJ, Kottite what are you thinking?

 

Marrone and Kelly were the top two Kallege HC candidates. The other vacancies in the NFL were filled by coordinators. We've done that before. It's never worked out, and I didn't see many of them that were slam-dunk locks to be NFL HC material.

 

At least The Bills went against tradition this time and hired a HC directly from the NCAA, albeit a convenient one from the perspective of the regional fan base. Time will tell.

I like the pick. I like the idea that we did this quick so he did not get hired by some other team. Glad we did not go with one of the coaches that got fired. I would have been ok with lovie out of all of them.

[Best Player Available]

The usual suspects are euphoric over the Marrone hire. Others will take a more tempered approach before jumping into Brandons 2013 pool of kool-aid. Apparently, some if not all of the Buffalo press corp are not swimming in it either so far.

 

The fact that Nix is still in Buffalo and was not swept out with the coaching trash speaks volumes on this new "vision" that Brandon spoke of. Nix is a scout not a GM the past 3 years are proof of how a poor GM he is. If nix has a finger on the upcoming draft he has the potential too drown the baby yet again in Brandon's pool.

 

As for the C. Kelly "interview" it was over before it began. Doubtful there was little if any serious interest from Buffalo. Just a little turd polishing to give the "exhaustive" approach some legs.

[KOKBILLS]

i hope Doug Marrone succeeds, and yet i'm left to wonder if this search was as "exhaustive" as Russ Brandon vowed it would be. He said there would be "no stone left unturned." and yet, there appears to have been some stones that weren't even touched.

what concerns me further is that there's been a clear desire on the part of the Buffalo Bills to "market" this coach and his staff to the public with team-generated, spoon-fed questions and quotes. there appears to be a want and desire to "market" this choice, without the glare of actual objective questioning.

 

this could surely well be interpreted as a complaint in regards to how the Buffalo Bills intend to control their message and how it's presented to the public. I certainly hope that after 13 years of covering a non-playoff team that they have it right. To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

 

jw.

 

I don't care how bright, driven, and likable Brandon is...And I do like him...I don't even care that he says things that make me feel warm and fuzzy about being a Bills fan...The truth is anyone that stands in front of a crowd of Bills fans and media, with a straight face, and claims that Buddy Nix is one of the top talent evaluators in the game is going to be second guessed by me and a ton of other Bills fans...Our football side is in good hands? What? Come on Russ you had me at hello, and lost me again in the span of 5-10 minutes...

Edited January 19, 2013 by KOKBILLS

[Kelly the Dog]

[/size]

Why does it have to be lying?

 

I take that quote to mean that after a consensus decision is made (based on internal give and take), OBD personnel should publically stand behind it. Nothing more than any other heirarchical organization would do...

Because I don't think those internal arguments hardly ever create "consensus decisions." They may eventually all agree to something in the "Are you okay with this choice because if you're not I'm going to pull rank and overrule you anyway?" scenario.

 

If Nix is in power and he ranks Marrone #1 and Whisenhunt #2, and Whaley is second in command and ranks Whisenhunt #1 and Lovie and Marrone 2a and 2b, I don't really think that order changes much during "rigorous internal debate." It may but it likely doesn't. They come to a consensus because the lower powered guys say I like Marrone, too, I can live with that, there is a lot to like about him. But if it were their decision they would still go with the guy they like the most which may not be what their immediate superior's choice is.

 

Then, to the public, they come out and say "Marrone was our unanimous consensus choice all along", which is nonsense.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened, just using a hypothetical.

[Punch]

Didn't Buddy/Russ explicitly state on 1/1/13 that if/when they find the right guy they would hire him? They didn't wait for Gus Bradley, Mike McCoy, Jay Gruden and didn't interview Trestman, but is it crazy that they acted when they were impressed with Marrone and 8 teams scrambling for a new head coach and a relatively small number of quality candidates?

 

I don't care how bright, driven, and likable Brandon is...And I do like him...I don't even care than he says things that make me feel warm and fuzzy about being a Bills fan...The truth is anyone that stands in front of a crowd of Bills fans and media, with a straight face, and claims that Buddy Nix is one of the top talent evaluators in the game is going to be second guessed by me and a ton of other Bills fans...Our football side is in good hands? What? Come on Russ you had me at hello, and lost me again in the span of 5-10 minutes...

 

I understand what you're saying, but that opinion has also been expressed by the likes of Chris Mortensen and Adam Schefter--- based on collective sentiment from around the league. That doesn't make Nix a great (or even average) GM, though.

[GG]

 

Because I don't think those internal arguments hardly ever create "consensus decisions." They may eventually all agree to something in the "Are you okay with this choice because if you're not I'm going to pull rank and overrule you anyway?" scenario.

 

If Nix is in power and he ranks Marrone #1 and Whisenhunt #2, and Whaley is second in command and ranks Whisenhunt #1 and Lovie and Marrone 2a and 2b, I don't really think that order changes much during "rigorous internal debate." It may but it likely doesn't. They come to a consensus because the lower powered guys say I like Marrone, too, I can live with that, there is a lot to like about him. But if it were their decision they would still go with the guy they like the most which may not be what their immediate superior's choice is.

 

Then, to the public, they come out and say "Marrone was our unanimous consensus choice all along", which is nonsense.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened, just using a hypothetical.

 

Now you're twisting Brandon's words, because that's not what was said. Lurker is right, every higherarchial organization has internal dissent but they have a unified public face, usually through an official spokesman.