Who is the GREATEST Bill of All-Time ??

[lets_go_bills]

Bruce Smith.

[Mr_Blizzard]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

**EDIT (stolen from the "wildrabbit"):

 

What most fail to realize is... the Bills used the running game to set up the pass. The Bills used to run more then they threw the ball in the Kelly era. While the Bills O line was better then most, it wasn't even close to what Emmitt Smith had in Dallas.

 

If you go back and look at what Thurman Thomas did, 5x pro bowls-1991 NFL MVP-1992 NFL offensive player of the year.

 

Thurman Thomas is the only NFL player to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons.

 

Now considering he almost never caught the ball while in college it is amazing that he is one of six NFL backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. He is also one of five backs to have rushed for over 1,000 yards for 8 consecutive seasons. I know I'm leaving out a bunch of playoffs stats and other stuff. Just think, this kid kept Barry Sanders on the bench in College.

 

The guy was like 70% of the offense in Buffalo, he gets my vote.

 

 

I like all your choices. And then I look at which of those guys would significantly change the current Bills team success, and I come up with Kelly. I would love to have any one of those guys on the current team, but Kelly brought so much to the table I have to say he is the guy. If you just go by records and Pro Bowl appearances, Bruce is the man.

[first_and_ten]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

I put Kelly above Cookie and O.J. If you had to choose right now..who would you take, Kelly, Cookie or OJ? The answer is easy.

[Tcali]

If yer talking pure talent, it begins and ends with Bruce Smith. All the other players are great...but Bruce is an all world great.

and OJ isnt??

[Steely Dan]

1. O. J. Simpson-gained 2003 yards when everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball.

2. Jim Kelly-Combined talent, leadership and toughness that has rarely been seen in this league.

3. Bruce Smith-Top 3 all time at his position. Best ever at his postion.

4. Thurman Thomas-One of the top all around backs ever

5. Kent Hull-quarterbacked the O-Line during Super Bowl run.

6. Steve Tasker-best Special Teams player in NFL history

7. Andre Reed-Top 10 receiver all time-clutch player and tough over the middle

8. Darryl Talley-Heart and soul of the defense during Super Bowl years-most underrated Bill ever!

9. Phil Hanson-second most underrated player ever-Bruce got attention and benefitted from Hansen being on other end

10. Fred Smerlas-best Nose Tackle of the 80's.

 

I am sure there were some great players in the 1960's but I am not old enough to remember them, only based on video and what I have read.

 

Fixed!

 

(IMO, Hansen benefited from Bruce, not the other way around.)

 

You didn't prove anything. You just proved he was more involved in the passing game; not a better running back. Both Smith and Sanders were measurably better players than Thomas when it came to toting the rock. As for blocking, he did become a pretty good blocker later in his career, but in his prime years he was average (like most great backs in their prime). In any event, Thurman, as good as he was, was a pale shadow of the juice.

 

EDIT: I suppose it's arguable that he was the equal of Emmitt Smith for a couple/few seasons, but it's hard to sustain that argument when looking at their entire careers. As for Sanders, you'd have be a blind man to think that Thomas was as good as him. I mean, he's not even in the same league. Sanders is comparable with OJ, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers (before the injuries), and Red Grange; Thurman is comparable with Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell. and Marshall Faulk.

 

If you believe a RB's only job is to carry the ball then, yes, Sanders was a lot better than Thomas. Thomas did keep Barry Sanders on the bench in college though. As for Emmitt Smith, both he and Thomas averaged 4.2 yards per carry so the nod goes to Thomas. JMO

[mabden]

With out a doubt, the heart and soul of the greatest Bills team, Darryl Talley.

 

 

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

**EDIT (stolen from the "wildrabbit"):

 

What most fail to realize is... the Bills used the running game to set up the pass. The Bills used to run more then they threw the ball in the Kelly era. While the Bills O line was better then most, it wasn't even close to what Emmitt Smith had in Dallas.

 

If you go back and look at what Thurman Thomas did, 5x pro bowls-1991 NFL MVP-1992 NFL offensive player of the year.

 

Thurman Thomas is the only NFL player to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons.

 

Now considering he almost never caught the ball while in college it is amazing that he is one of six NFL backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. He is also one of five backs to have rushed for over 1,000 yards for 8 consecutive seasons. I know I'm leaving out a bunch of playoffs stats and other stuff. Just think, this kid kept Barry Sanders on the bench in College.

 

The guy was like 70% of the offense in Buffalo, he gets my vote.

[vincec]

Bob Knight. Nice. Jim Kelly does evoke the best of the Bills past. (well in my opinion, but that is up for debate still in my mind. Thurman, Andre, Tasker, Bruce...ect... Hull, Ritcher, Wolford, Beebe, Ballard, Bennet, Talley, ect...i could go on and on... I have to admit i'm quite a bit buzzed. I'm sure some people on here post buzzed too but i admit it. Your Bob Knight icon caught my attention tho cause i worked with his son (on his show) for quite a while. i'm still good friends with him. Please excuse me for my lack of puncuation and for proper spelling and such. a bit buzzed. anyhoo, In many ways i wish i had been a Bills fan longer than i have been (been a hard core Bills fan since 1988). I have read thru the posts from many of you long timers for quite some time. I haven't posted much. But i wish i had seen the games you had seen in their hayday previous to their 4 Superbowl appearances. I still think i am the ONLY hard core Bufallo Bills fan in San Luis Obispo, California. I've seen 3 others in this fine college town. But I think i'm the only one standing from what i've experienced. And I will continue to stand. This is such a buzzed post. Well take it for what it's worth. And if it's not worth your time then no need to reply. Hard Core Bills fans reside from all corners of this Earth.

 

Go Bills!!!!!

Um, yeah.

 

It sounds like you are looking for a reply and I don't want to disrespect you here, but I'm not really sure what you are talking about...

 

P.S- It's Ted Knight.

[DE Bills Fan]

O.J. without question

[RI Bills Fan]

These guys deserve some recognition in this discussion.

 

1. Jim Braxton

2. Robert James

3. Tony Greene

4. Jerry Butler

[Red]

I'd have to say, in terms of impact on the field and the playoffs (and Super Bowls) they brought, it would have to be between 2 players: Bruce Smith and Jim Kelly.

 

Although Bruce is my all-time favorite football player, period...I would have to say that Jim Kelly was perhaps the greatest Bill of all time.

[wide_right]

Bruce Smith and OJ Simpson. these are the only 2 players that one could argue are the best players ever at their position.

[Bob in STL]

OJ Simpson - everyone else a distant 2nd.

 

regarding Thurman thomas I can argue he's only the 4th best RB we ever had behind Cookie & OJ & Joe Cribbs

 

Cribbs was 4 yrs and 4 probowls....returned punts and led the Bills in both receiving and rushing in 1983.

 

Thurman had good fortune to come along as the RB in the no huddle....while Thurman was taken out of the game on 3rd downs his rookie year....joe Cribbs was running & receiving and returning punts to a start in the pro bowl his rookie year starting alongside earl campbell...

 

In general I think the players from the Knox era are a bit overlooked when it comes to all time selections

 

Cribbs better than Therman? what a laugh.

 

Best Bills ever:

 

1. OJ - Voted Best Football Player of the 70's by SI.

2. Kelly - HoF

3. Bruce - HoF

4. Therman - HoF

5. Cookie - Insane talent, size and speed.

6. Andre - Future HoF

7. Billy Shaw - HoF and All Time AFL Team

8. Joe D - HoF

9. Tom Sestak - All time AFL Team

[Bob in STL]

These guys deserve some recognition in this discussion.

 

1. Jim Braxton

2. Robert James

3. Tony Greene

4. Jerry Butler

 

 

Recognized on the All Time Bills Team. None are All Time AFL or NFL. James and Butler might have been had injuries not shortened their careeers.

[Steely Dan]

These guys deserve some recognition in this discussion.

 

1. Jim Braxton

2. Robert James

3. Tony Greene

4. Jerry Butler

 

Also, Will Wolford and Kent Hull. Even though he never played with a great QB Eric Moulds comes to mind too.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Bruce Smith and OJ Simpson. these are the only 2 players that one could argue are the best players ever at their position.

[Doc]

Bruce, no doubt. OJ would be second followed closely by Thurman.

[Greybeard]

These guys deserve some recognition in this discussion.

 

1. Jim Braxton

2. Robert James

3. Tony Greene

4. Jerry Butler

 

Thank You. On a pound for pound basis, I would argue Robert James. It is a shame you have to play on a winner to get recognition. Pound for pound, Chandler's value is also right up there.

[jahbonas]

O.J. Simpson had the greatest season of any nfl player ever in 1973,,, rushing for over 2000 yards in a 14 game season on a mediocre team.

 

without Jack Kemp, we on this message board would not be taking comfort in the fact that the Bills actually do have some championship titles.

 

OJ's 1975 season was more impressive than what he did in 1973

[Chandler#81]

Tom Sestak.

 

 

+1. Pound for pound, and all that.

 

For longevity, HOFer's Bruce and Billy

[Charles Romes]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

 

In the early 90s I would often watch long periods of games focusing exclusively on the play of Bruce Smith. Here's how it went. Opposing QB starts his walk toward the center and immediately begins to check out where and how Bruce is lining up. Gets under center and starts the count. QB makes first look at Bruce while under center. Looks at Bruce again. And again. And again just before the snap. Snaps the ball. Bruce is at least double teamed. Whole left side of the line gets crashed in almost instantaneously by Bruce. The best they can do is hang on and hope the ball is gone soon enough. This went on play after play year after year. It was just ridiculous. I used think constantly "I can't believe this guy is playing for my team!" Even though the announcers would always commend Bruce's play, usually after he made an obvious big play, which was several times a game, I often wondered why no one seemed to see what I was seeing. That just about every play an offense ran was predicated first on how Bruce was going to be addressed. I used to watch Reggie White games very closely to try and identify evidence of this measure of domination in terms of the impact he had on an offensive game plan, and I'm sorry, it just wasn't there. Not even close. Teams used to try to take advantage of Bruce's first step and run draws to Bruce's side. Not too long into his career, Bruce was able to stop the rush on a dime, obscenely change direction mid-stride, and make a play on the ball carrier.

[don_of_manhattan]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

**EDIT (stolen from the "wildrabbit"):

 

What most fail to realize is... the Bills used the running game to set up the pass. The Bills used to run more then they threw the ball in the Kelly era. While the Bills O line was better then most, it wasn't even close to what Emmitt Smith had in Dallas.

 

If you go back and look at what Thurman Thomas did, 5x pro bowls-1991 NFL MVP-1992 NFL offensive player of the year.

 

Thurman Thomas is the only NFL player to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons.

 

Now considering he almost never caught the ball while in college it is amazing that he is one of six NFL backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. He is also one of five backs to have rushed for over 1,000 yards for 8 consecutive seasons. I know I'm leaving out a bunch of playoffs stats and other stuff. Just think, this kid kept Barry Sanders on the bench in College.

 

The guy was like 70% of the offense in Buffalo, he gets my vote.

Debatable, but I have to give it to Jimbo.

[Doc]

In the early 90s I would often watch long periods of games focusing exclusively on the play of Bruce Smith. Here's how it went. Opposing QB starts his walk toward the center and immediately begins to check out where and how Bruce is lining up. Gets under center and starts the count. QB makes first look at Bruce while under center. Looks at Bruce again. And again. And again just before the snap. Snaps the ball. Bruce is at least double teamed. Whole left side of the line gets crashed in almost instantaneously by Bruce. The best they can do is hang on and hope the ball is gone soon enough. This went on play after play year after year. It was just ridiculous. I used think constantly "I can't believe this guy is playing for my team!" Even though the announcers would always commend Bruce's play, usually after he made an obvious big play, which was several times a game, I often wondered why no one seemed to see what I was seeing. That just about every play an offense ran was predicated first on how Bruce was going to be addressed. I used to watch Reggie White games very closely to try and identify evidence of this measure of domination in terms of the impact he had on an offensive game plan, and I'm sorry, it just wasn't there. Not even close. Teams used to try to take advantage of Bruce's first step and run draws to Bruce's side. Not too long into his career, Bruce was able to stop the rush on a dime, obscenely change direction mid-stride, and make a play on the ball carrier.

As was mentioned earlier, playing a 3-4 and racking-up the numbers he did was sick. He had little help on the O-line from Jeff Wright and Seals and later Hansen benefitted greatly from his presence. In those days, I always wished the Bills would play a 4-3, or find a real NT.

[Tcali]

Bruce Smith and OJ Simpson. these are the only 2 players that one could argue are the best players ever at their position.

Yes those are the only two All time great level players who played most of their career in Buff.

Lofton came here near the end...and Cookie played the first half of his career in Canada...and Robert James was injured early...and Jerry Butler was injured in his prime.Joe D and Billy Shaw are close but there were better.

[KOKBILLS]

Kelly hands down

 

I'd go with Jimbo as well...But Bruce and TT are REAL close behind...

[Red Squirrel]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

**EDIT (stolen from the "wildrabbit"):

 

What most fail to realize is... the Bills used the running game to set up the pass. The Bills used to run more then they threw the ball in the Kelly era. While the Bills O line was better then most, it wasn't even close to what Emmitt Smith had in Dallas......

 

I like your list, but I take some issue with your characterization of the K-Gun era. Yes, they ran more than they passed, but a lot of that had to do with having 4th quarter leads and grinding it out until the clock read 0:00.

 

I thought the beauty of that offense was that they did what ever was working the best. Except for SBXXV, which is a big reason why I'm not on the Kelly bandwagon for this. That was their best chance, and he chose to call almost 40 pass plays when the Giants D hardly had any linemen on the field and Thurman was shredding them. But as annoyed as I always have been at Kelly for that, I'd still put him ahead of Cookie, who may have been a great talent but didn't do it in Buffalo very long...and was a pain in the ass

[Thurman#1]

EDIT: i'm talking players only.....on-field.

 

 

i'm going to say Thurman Thomas......

 

League MVP.....and best all around all purpose RB to ever play the game !!

 

 

#1- Thurman

#2- Bruce

#3- O.J.

#4- Cookie

#5- Kelly

 

**EDIT (stolen from the "wildrabbit"):

 

What most fail to realize is... the Bills used the running game to set up the pass. The Bills used to run more then they threw the ball in the Kelly era. While the Bills O line was better then most, it wasn't even close to what Emmitt Smith had in Dallas.

 

If you go back and look at what Thurman Thomas did, 5x pro bowls-1991 NFL MVP-1992 NFL offensive player of the year.

 

Thurman Thomas is the only NFL player to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons.

 

Now considering he almost never caught the ball while in college it is amazing that he is one of six NFL backs to have over 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. He is also one of five backs to have rushed for over 1,000 yards for 8 consecutive seasons. I know I'm leaving out a bunch of playoffs stats and other stuff. Just think, this kid kept Barry Sanders on the bench in College.

 

The guy was like 70% of the offense in Buffalo, he gets my vote.

 

 

O.J.

 

On the field, nobody else is close.

 

Do the Bills have any other player who could be said to be the NFL player of a decade? Simpson was the best player of that decade, hands down. If we'd had a good defense ...

 

And Bruce Smith would be the only one in the running for second place.

 

After those two, Billy Shaw, Thurman, Kelly, Gilchrist and a few others are all bunched up.

[DE Bills Fan]

OJ Simpson, plain and simple....

[Rust Belt Nights]

Bruce Smith for sure

 

OJ right next to him

[papazoid]

UPDATE...UNOFFICIAL.....

 

Bruce - 28 votes

O.J.- 25 votes

Kelly- 15 votes

Thurman- 5 votes

 

At least according to these articles.....and for discussion purposes only.....

 

O.J. is ranked the 2nd best RB in NFL history (behind jim brown):

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6907909//

 

Bruce is ranked the 2nd best DE in NFL history (behind Reggie White):

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/3...fl_history.html

 

Kelly would not make the top ten in NFL history.....i put him around 15th best.

 

Thurman is judged against "pure" runners....and does not get the credit he desrves for his receiving all-purpose yards.

[RyanC882]

Soo many good ones. I'd have to go with Kelly, then Bruce.

[DCbillsfan]

OJ was the best Bill. Anyone who saw him play on a consistent basis would probably agree with that. In terms of being illusive in the open field no one who ever played the game came close, including Jim Brown. How many times did two defenders come from two different directions to tackle OJ and he faked out both of them at the same time such that the two defenders smacked hard into each other and ended up on the ground while he sped through them for a touchdown. When OJ got past the line of scrimmage a thrill used to go down my back because of the potential for something amazing to happen on every play.

 

I loved Cribbs and Thurman and of course Kelly and Bruce but OJ was a one time only in history NFL talent. Other RBs may have had better numbers and better strength, but no one did what OJ did on the field.

I would have to agree. That no good human being was the best talented Bill. Teams would game plan to stop him and they couldn't. Bruce was a true force and teams game planned around him as well. Kelly made those SB teams great and was a true competitor. Cribbs and Thurman were great Bills as well.

[truth on hold]

How about Joe Delamilure?

[nostyle126]

How about Joe Delamilure?

I ran into him a while back at a Sears in the Carolina Place Mall. Nice guy.

[dave mcbride]

O.J.

 

On the field, nobody else is close.

 

Do the Bills have any other player who could be said to be the NFL player of a decade? Simpson was the best player of that decade, hands down. If we'd had a good defense ...

 

And Bruce Smith would be the only one in the running for second place.

 

After those two, Billy Shaw, Thurman, Kelly, Gilchrist and a few others are all bunched up.

I basically agree with you, except I think Bruce is close and possibly his equal. Bruce's 1996 season was about as good as OJ's 2003 season, and both were among the best seasons ever by an NFL player. In any event, both were amazing players.

[manbeast]

OJ Simpson - everyone else a distant 2nd.

 

regarding Thurman thomas I can argue he's only the 4th best RB we ever had behind Cookie & OJ & Joe Cribbs

 

Cribbs was 4 yrs and 4 probowls....returned punts and led the Bills in both receiving and rushing in 1983.

 

Thurman had good fortune to come along as the RB in the no huddle....while Thurman was taken out of the game on 3rd downs his rookie year....joe Cribbs was running & receiving and returning punts to a start in the pro bowl his rookie year starting alongside earl campbell...

 

In general I think the players from the Knox era are a bit overlooked when it comes to all time selections

Bruce Smith is the only guy that is argueable the best at his position of all time and the arguement against that isn't very strong.

[billsfreak]

You realize what OJ had on opening day of his 2003 season?

QB was a rookie 3rd round draft pick starting 1st game ever

TE Paul Seymour starting his 1st NFL game ever

OG Joe D was starting his first game ever

 

gee you think they might have put 8 in the box? He still rushed for 250yrds that day

I agree, Fergie only attempted a little more than 100 pass attempts the whole season, O.J. was the whole offense, the defense knew it, and he still had the best season any running back has ever had, and probably ever will have.

[nostyle126]

Bruce Smith is the only guy that is argueable the best at his position of all time and the arguement against that isn't very strong.

I believe the only argument against it is that Ed 'too tall' Jones might've had more sacks than Bruce if they had kept sacks as a stat back then.

[bdelma]

OJ

[manbeast]

top 3

 

3. drew bledsoe

2. willis mcgahee

1. scott norwood

 

We are not talking about the most beloved. Norwoods stats were actually good.

[manbeast]

I believe the only argument against it is that Ed 'too tall' Jones might've had more sacks than Bruce if they had kept sacks as a stat back then.

It's not even the fact that he is the all-time leader in sacks it's the numbers he put up in a 3-4 defense.