BillsVet Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Royal and Dockery. Well, the "Marv built a great corps" camp seems to be really facing a tough sell more and more. Don't you dare attack Marv Levy the GM. It's amazing that Dockery was signed to big money, when in fact they were attempting to run a variant of the WCO. As a 330 pound guard, we know he didn't fit with having lineman able to pass protect. From a team-building perspective, he was 180 degrees from what they wanted. I can understand having a guy like Mitchell at WLB in a C2 perhaps. But lumbering guards at 49M is a stretch and two years later he's history. It's mistakes like this which hamstring an organization longer than the player is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hook 'em, Horns!!! And there are still people here who are convinced that the U of Texas produces NFL players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The NFL's free-agency season begins at 12:01 a.m. Saturday. The Bills still could have some other cuts coming by 4 p.m. today, with veteran tight end Robert Royal being one candidate. I thought it started at 12:01 a.m. tomorrow. Mark Gaughn doesn't even know when NFL free agency starts....what a shocker. Keep reading Tim's articles Mark, maybe you'll learn something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 That would be awesome. Jason Brown prefers to play guard anyway. Then we could draft a Center and groom him behind Saturday. Our line would be one of the best if we were able to sign both of them Yes it would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 How about signing both? Saturday as a C and Brown as a G. Brown expressed about wanting to go to Miami and the they are looking for a C. By making an offer foer the G position might make us more appealing to Brown. Just a thought. After giving that huge contract to Dockery, I have my doubts as to whether Ralph will open up his pocket books on the OL again. Honestly, I expect a return of the Corbin Lacina/Mike Pucillo strategy on the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I got to be honest, I do not like this move. This is why the bills never improve. They make holes in the roster when they do not have to. Say what you want about DD but there is not a guy on the roster right now that could replace him in the starting lineup & be an upgrade. I understand making the move to clear salary but why not wait until they bring in another guard & then cut him? With the bills it is always seems like it is one step forward, two steps back. They are constantly every offseason making moves that create holes in the roster that do not have to be made. That is why we never improve from our usual 7-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Moves like this one are a big reason why the Bills never improve. They have to waste time and resources replacing too many competent (if overpaid) players that they dump for various reasons. You can only plug so many holes in one offseason. They were already going to be pressed to fill all of their needs, and now, the Bills have all but guaranteed that yet one more won't be adequately addressed. My feelings exactly. Look, its possible we sign Saturday and Brown, but highly unlikely. And will Brown or Saturday even be as good as Dockery was or will we get some drivel about developing our own guy in the quest for dominance and taking him in the 3rd/4th round of the draft. Meanwhile said pick will take two years just to get to Dockery's level of competance. I am not happy at all about this move. And anyone who thinks a WCO will work in Buffalo obviously did not watch the NE game at the end of December. You MUST have a strong running game and be able to stop the run. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Bills have a plan to make Peters the highest paid member of the OL. But instead of paying him, they are going to cut everyone who makes more than him. and move in back to guard becuase guards are suppose to make less than the LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 If the Bills sign Saturday and Brown I will drink a toast and toast is hard to swallow, even with butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 After giving that huge contract to Dockery, I have my doubts as to whether Ralph will open up his pocket books on the OL again. Honestly, I expect a return of the Corbin Lacina/Mike Pucillo strategy on the OL. Well, our ex-O-Line coach Jim McNally was supposed to be a genius in turning out talent like he did for the Giants. The secret seems to be practice, practice, practice, IN PADS! The Giants lock horns and run the ball all training camp. That's why they get it done and the Bills suck at running the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCBoston Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Duke Preston assuming we sign the C from the Ravens. Preston and Fowler are both UFAs, I'd be shocked to see them come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Don't you dare attack Marv Levy the GM. Indeed. It's amazing that Dockery was signed to big money, when in fact they were attempting to run a variant of the WCO. As a 330 pound guard, we know he didn't fit with having lineman able to pass protect. From a team-building perspective, he was 180 degrees from what they wanted.When they signed him, they were (hopefully) trying to build towards the Martz system under Fairchild, so at that time he was a good option. They somehow went for "continuity" and promoted a WCO guy who appears to be sending the offense as you say 180 degrees from their original heading.I can understand having a guy like Mitchell at WLB in a C2 perhaps. But lumbering guards at 49M is a stretch and two years later he's history. It's mistakes like this which hamstring an organization longer than the player is here. We are not treading water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Bills have a plan to make Peters the highest paid member of the OL. But instead of paying him, they are going to cut everyone who makes more than him. Very pithy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Preston and Fowler are both UFAs, I'd be shocked to see them come back. You know I've thought about that for awhile. Preston is a decent player and plays all 3 interior line positions. In the eyes of many that makes him a valuable player. Personally I would have made an attempt to keep him but we don't know if the Bills had any conversations with his agent and if so, what each side's disposition is. As for free agency, to clarify even further, as I type this it's 11:14 am EST. That means free agency starts in 12 hours and 46 minutes...and counting down baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISSCHUNK Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Bills have a plan to make Peters the highest paid member of the OL. But instead of paying him, they are going to cut everyone who makes more than him. Hilarious! You're killin' me here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I got to be honest, I do not like this move. This is why the bills never improve. They make holes in the roster when they do not have to. Say what you want about DD but there is not a guy on the roster right now that could replace him in the starting lineup & be an upgrade. I understand making the move to clear salary but why not wait until they bring in another guard & then cut him? With the bills it is always seems like it is one step forward, two steps back. They are constantly every offseason making moves that create holes in the roster that do not have to be made. That is why we never improve from our usual 7-9. Well, let's also not forget the probable long term extension for Peters that would likely pay him $8-10M per year. It also sounds like it will cost about $8 M per year to sign Brown, provided that the Bills even get into that bidding war for his services. Keeping Dockery on board would have amounted to about $25 M per year for just THE LEFT side of the OL (LT to Center). I've said before that I view Dockery as an average to slightly above average OG. He certainly isn't worth the money he was set to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I don't like the move. A possible motivation for it is perhaps he's due a large roster bonus soon (I saw mention of like a $1.75m above). I'll concede that he certainly didn't live up to his contract and in fact this past season was arguably not even "good". But he was apparently our best option there (or else he'd be benched). Our other options there also aren't likely to return. Whittle can't stay healthy & even when playing was merely adequate IMO. Fowler sucked & should be gone. Preston was adequate and has potential to improve but I certainly wouldn't want to overpay for him in FA to assure his return. Now we have to replace 4 interior linemen, not to mention upgrade other places. And it's not like we need to clear cap space. As others have mentioned, seems to me Kelsay would've been a far more prudent jettison - we've already got Ellis "in the wings" hopefully ready to contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 must have looked like the weak link on the game film in the end of season review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISSCHUNK Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hook 'em, Horns!!! And there are still people here who are convinced that the U of Texas produces NFL players? They take pay cuts coming into the NFL! It's a wonderful life in Austin, Texas. Who needs the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 DD never did anything memorable on the field, good or bad. He was serviceable. Nothing more. Definitely not worth the dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 thats the only thing i can think of they must be freeing up a LOT of cash for a reason. They were well under the cap so i dont see this as a money issue. Now they have truckloads of money under.... are they planning something big? They are freeing up alot of cash, for Ralph's pockets probably. Lets hope that all the criticism that he and the Front Office have been getting hit with make him open his wallet a little bit this off season, but I will believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 They are freeing up alot of cash, for Ralph's pockets probably. Lets hope that all the criticism that he and the Front Office have been getting hit with make him open his wallet a little bit this off season, but I will believe it when I see it. The release of DD is quite simple. The Bills have to spend a certain amount of money against the cap in order to get their share in the CBA. Dead money counts as money spent, even though RW won't really be spending a single penny on DD's contract this season. The cap hit should be about 4 or 5 million dollars. That's 4 or $5 million less that RW will have to actually spend. More cuts will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 They are freeing up alot of cash, for Ralph's pockets probably. Lets hope that all the criticism that he and the Front Office have been getting hit with make him open his wallet a little bit this off season, but I will believe it when I see it. It has been proven many times that Ralph opens his wallet for players. They might not always be the right moves but he does spend it. All we hear about is our overpaid players. Getting really tired of the same old lines!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok, so what is the level of confidence around here about Kirk Chambers? If the plan is to go after Jason Brown at center, Chambers is the natural replacement at guard (unless we dip into FA twice for the O-line). Personally, I thought he held his own out there this season when called upon. He's most likely a slight downgrade from Dockery. However... Peters-Chambers-Brown-Butler-Walker sounds a heckuva lot better than Peters-Dockery-Fowler-Butler-Walker All in all, I'm a fan of this move as long as it involves bringing in a legitimate center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I got to be honest, I do not like this move. This is why the bills never improve. They make holes in the roster when they do not have to. Say what you want about DD but there is not a guy on the roster right now that could replace him in the starting lineup & be an upgrade. I understand making the move to clear salary but why not wait until they bring in another guard & then cut him? With the bills it is always seems like it is one step forward, two steps back. They are constantly every offseason making moves that create holes in the roster that do not have to be made. That is why we never improve from our usual 7-9. I agree. I don't like the move unless they already have two starters in there. What if they targeted a couple guys and other teams want them and pay them more. Now we need (at least) five new starters instead of four. Dockery has been average and surely not worth the money he is being paid but he is above average for around the league. If you get a Jason Brown and Jeff Saturday or something like that locked up, then you can cut him. Sure, it may not be fair to Dockery to keep him out of the first few days of FA but he was way overpaid for a couple years here. I don't like this move right move today. If they pick up two top OL in free agency then and only then will it not be a bad move. They have all the money they want to spend in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Anyone they're cutting today have to be cut today or they get their roster bonus paid to them on Friday, the first day of the new season fiscally. As a result, even though some are claiming that Ralph did this to save money on what he's spending this off-season,we actually gain 4-5 in cash to the cap and are credited 400+k on the cap. I don't like it, but from the sound of it, they have tampered with a few people and know at 12:01 they'll have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Bills have a plan to make Peters the highest paid member of the OL. But instead of paying him, they are going to cut everyone who makes more than him. Good one - now Peters can't complain about being the third-highest paid guy on the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Does anyone else think we're clearing up cap space to make a run at LeBron James next summer? I'm just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I agree. I don't like the move unless they already have two starters in there. What if they targeted a couple guys and other teams want them and pay them more. Now we need (at least) five new starters instead of four. Dockery has been average and surely not worth the money he is being paid but he is above average for around the league. If you get a Jason Brown and Jeff Saturday or something like that locked up, then you can cut him. Sure, it may not be fair to Dockery to keep him out of the first few days of FA but he was way overpaid for a couple years here. I don't like this move right move today. If they pick up two top OL in free agency then and only then will it not be a bad move. They have all the money they want to spend in FA. A guard in the hand is better than 2 FAs in the bush? Fingers crossed that this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 They are freeing up alot of cash, for Ralph's pockets probably. Lets hope that all the criticism that he and the Front Office have been getting hit with make him open his wallet a little bit this off season, but I will believe it when I see it. You mean like when he opened up his pocket book for Dockery? I love it, we cut a huge salary we gave a guy in FA and there are still posts as if Ralph never spends money...lmao Complain about how he has spent money, but he has spent money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Does anyone else think we're clearing up cap space to make a run at LeBron James next summer? I'm just saying... Well. everyone else is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 It has been proven many times that Ralph opens his wallet for players. They might not always be the right moves but he does spend it. All we hear about is our overpaid players. Getting really tired of the same old lines!! Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 WHo do we play at guard? who cares, anything is better than dockerys fat ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Loves Bills Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 One quick question from a guy who is still learning the whole process. What is the benefit of releasing him instead of trading him? Is it simply because no one wants to pay his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat7s Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Don't count on it. I dunno dude, why cut a guy you invested so much in if you're going to do nothing significant to replace that person? Then again we didn't save a lot of cap room by cutting him, so it's not like we have an extra $5 million to throw around this year. I just think they must be bringing in a name on the line if they are throwing away their investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 One quick question from a guy who is still learning the whole process. What is the benefit of releasing him instead of trading him? Is it simply because no one wants to pay his contract? They may have tried and couldnt which is why they waited until now. Who knows...his contract is way overpriced from how he has played, so dont see anyone taking it on...this isnt the NBA, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Dockery did nothing to earn his contract. Same with Royal. I like these cuts because it removes guys who were *only* for the most part locker room lawyers. I'm sure they talked to Dockery's agent to restructure. But I doubt DD wanted to do it. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 One quick question from a guy who is still learning the whole process. What is the benefit of releasing him instead of trading him? Is it simply because no one wants to pay his contract? That is a big part. He is not really in demand. He will probably hook up somewhere else but on a 1 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 For the record, I'd like to know how many other teams have cut a player after 2 seasons with a contract that large? Buffalo obviously isn't paying the entire 49M, but IIRC, Dockery got 18.5M guaranteed in the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 If this all goes to the Peters extension that will be a let down...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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