Another one bounces back....

[rockpile]

Continued from my "another one bites the dust" thread...

 

I broke my previous record. In 2006 I was laid off and had another job in 10 weeks. After 20 months as a temp, I was again dumped and 6 weeks later I have a full time professional offer on the table. Not to shabby for a mid-fifties boomer!

 

I have been given a written offer for close to the salary I wanted, but a little short. Considering the current job market, considering it is in Rochester, and considering it is a job that I really want, I can agree on *base salary* but need to find a way to maximize total compensation.

I will be a Quality Manager, reporting directly to the VP. It is a small company (less than 30 people) but a strong manufacturing group. Basically I will be defining the quality system. The people I have met are very cool, and they work hard but like to have fun doing it.

 

 

Any ideas on how to improve *total compensation*? I do not see much if any flexibility (leverage) in the salary. Pulling up comparables from the past two years does not mean a lot with unemployment so high today!

 

 

It is a job I want in a shiddy market. Things so far have fallen in line. I need to go talk to them tomorrow or Friday to "sign zee papers" but as I said little more than the salary, job title, and start date (Monday) are in the signed offer sent to me.

 

I am paying through the ass for medical benefits now, so if that can be kept low, that is a big plus. I will also have paid vacations and more holidays. As a temp, if the plant shut down Christmas week, I got 8 hours pay!

 

 

Any and all angles are appreciated! I need to make sure all responsibilites and goals are documented, too.

 

 

Tanstaafl,

 

Rock

[Jim in Anchorage]

Continued from my "another one bites the dust" thread...

 

I broke my previous record. In 2006 I was laid off and had another job in 10 weeks. After 20 months as a temp, I was again dumped and 6 weeks later I have a full time professional offer on the table. Not to shabby for a mid-fifties boomer!

 

I have been given a written offer for close to the salary I wanted, but a little short. Considering the current job market, considering it is in Rochester, and considering it is a job that I really want, I can agree on *base salary* but need to find a way to maximize total compensation.

I will be a Quality Manager, reporting directly to the VP. It is a small company (less than 30 people) but a strong manufacturing group. Basically I will be defining the quality system. The people I have met are very cool, and they work hard but like to have fun doing it.

 

 

Any ideas on how to improve *total compensation*? I do not see much if any flexibility (leverage) in the salary. Pulling up comparables from the past two years does not mean a lot with unemployment so high today!

 

 

It is a job I want in a shiddy market. Things so far have fallen in line. I need to go talk to them tomorrow or Friday to "sign zee papers" but as I said little more than the salary, job title, and start date (Monday) are in the signed offer sent to me.

 

I am paying through the ass for medical benefits now, so if that can be kept low, that is a big plus. I will also have paid vacations and more holidays. As a temp, if the plant shut down Christmas week, I got 8 hours pay!

 

 

Any and all angles are appreciated! I need to make sure all responsibilites and goals are documented, too.

 

 

Tanstaafl,

 

Rock

Go for it it. If you no like, that xx/xx/xxxx to present looks good on the next app.

[Alaska Darin]

Take the job, prove your worth and the money will take care of itself if the company is any good. That's always been my experience.

 

I'd never pass up a job in a good company with good people over "a little" money. And that's magnified in this economy.

[Just Jack]

Ask for Bills season tickets to be added.

[John Adams]

Take the job, prove your worth and the money will take care of itself if the company is any good. That's always been my experience.

 

I'd never pass up a job in a good company with good people over "a little" money. And that's magnified in this economy.

 

What he said. Get your bird in the hand. Do a good job and worry about negotiating next year when you have leverage and know the politics of the place.

[VOR]

Take the job, prove your worth and the money will take care of itself if the company is any good. That's always been my experience.

 

I'd never pass up a job in a good company with good people over "a little" money. And that's magnified in this economy.

Bingo. My uncle was offered a job and thought about nickel and diming them for more, but his recruiter looked him in the face and asked him if he was crazy. Take the job and be happy with your luck instead of trying to push it.

[Philly McButterpants]

Annual Bonus/performance bonus potential?

[Ramius]

Ask for Bills season tickets to be added.

 

He said he wanted to raise the value of his compensation package, not lower it.

[PastaJoe]

Think about the opportunity cost of not taking the job; when will you find another one like this that's a good fit. As long as you're getting a decent wage, take the job. Being happy is more important than money. And try asking for something like vacation time. Some places make you wait a year before you get 2 weeks, ask for it in the first year. Or if they give 2 weeks, ask to start at 3.

[Fan in Chicago]

Continued from my "another one bites the dust" thread...

 

I broke my previous record. In 2006 I was laid off and had another job in 10 weeks. After 20 months as a temp, I was again dumped and 6 weeks later I have a full time professional offer on the table. Not to shabby for a mid-fifties boomer!

First of all - congratulations. Way to go landing a job so quickly in this economy. As others have said, don't think twice because of the money. However, you are asking how to make it sweeter for yourself while still staying within the company's limited negotiation stance:

- See if you can get more base paid vacation. My last 2 employers had given me an extra week.

- Incentives. See if you can structure a goal based bonus structure. Sounds like you are quite experienced and the economy will eventually get better. So you should be able to exceed your goals fairly easily aided by a recovery

- As it is a quality job, talk about instilling a Six Sigma type culture if they don't have it already. Link some bonus to making your company Six Sigma compliant in, say, 18 months.

- See if an ISO certification will help your company's business. If yes and they aren't already, that is another bonus oriented goal you may want to pursue

[Dante]

He said he wanted to raise the value of his compensation package, not lower it.

ouch!

[Guffalo]

See if you can get them to eat some of the medical benefits that are causing you hemeroids (I assume thats what you meant when you said you were paying through the ass). If they can cover your portion of the premium that is a way to go. But as others said, take, get ingrained, let them see you shine, then renegotiate, better than wasting what might be a great gig.

[kegtapr]

You are currently unemployed. You have a job offer that is close to the compensation you want. I don't see where the question is?

 

The best time to look for a job is when you have a job. If they aren't meeting your needs after a period of time, you can always make a move. But to risk losing the only offer you have right now is silly.

 

Snap out of it Rock.

[erynthered]

You are currently unemployed. You have a job offer that is close to the compensation you want. I don't see where the question is?

 

The best time to look for a job is when you have a job. If they aren't meeting your needs after a period of time, you can always make a move. But to risk losing the only offer you have right now is silly.

 

Snap out of it Rock.

 

His post was at 1:16 AM. He may have been

 

Take the job, Rock!!

[aussiew]

You are currently unemployed. You have a job offer that is close to the compensation you want. I don't see where the question is?

 

The best time to look for a job is when you have a job. If they aren't meeting your needs after a period of time, you can always make a move. But to risk losing the only offer you have right now is silly.

 

Snap out of it Rock.

 

Talk to anyone over 50 who has faced this same decision. Most of them will admit they took a big cut in pay to find another decent job. I think if you're close to your previous salary...you should jump all over it.

[ShipUPride]

Ask for a few more vacation days. If they give you 2 weeks, ask for 3.

[KD in CA]

You should ask about:

 

-Health Benefits and how much of the premiums the employer will cover

-Life & Disability insurance

-Retirement plan (either Defined Benefit or a 401(k) type of plan; and if so do they contribute anything to it)

-Stock Options if they offer them

-Company bonus plan and if so what are parameters (based on Individual performance, specific goals, overall company performance, etc.)

 

 

Nothing wrong with pushing a little bit, but by all means if it's the job you want, you don't want to turn it down over the details or a few thousand bucks.

 

Good luck

[BuffaloBill]

Any ideas on how to improve *total compensation*? I do not see much if any flexibility (leverage) in the salary. Pulling up comparables from the past two years does not mean a lot with unemployment so high today!

 

 

Any and all angles are appreciated! I need to make sure all responsibilites and goals are documented, too.

 

 

Tanstaafl,

 

Rock

 

 

Hey Rock congrats.

 

I am a VP of HR so I sit on the other side of the table for a living. With that said I have never worked for a company as small as the one you are talking about so the dymanics may be a little different.

 

I can tell you that we always lay an initial offer on the table under the assumption that the individual we are making the offer to will come back and ask for more. We do not always grant their request. The most frequent reason for saying "no" is because the individual is unreasonable in their expectations.

 

Asking to get back to your former salary given that you are close does not seem to be out of line. If you feel the need to temper it some you can ask to get it in six months after you have established your worth to newco.

 

A note of caution here ... if you are going to ask I strongly suggest that you at least do so by voice over the phone. In all seriousness it is probably be better to do face to face. In the conversation I would begin with the fact that you are very excited about the prospect of joining their company and that you are very confident that you will do an excellent job for them.

 

As for the bonus situation - ask questions about how they typically pay them and what the range might be. I would ask how many times in the past three years they have paid people to the high side of the range. As the same about the low side if it is not obvious from the answer to the first question. You can also ask if they have fixed targets tied to jobs or if there is flexibility. If they are fixed not much you can do. If they are flexible ask for a reasonable step up or again if you want to temper it some ask them for a step up in the second bonus cycle (i.e. if you are doing a good job after a year - assuming an annual bonus - can you from x% to X+% in year 2?)

 

Often times companies are a bit bounded on what they can do either because of plan design or internal equity. So to figure the bounds out you have to do a little probing. I would not overdo it though.

 

Anyway, you are in good shape .. congrats on finding the job. If you have other thoughts or questions feel free to contact me directly through the board. I happen to be off work today so I should be accessible.

[Fan in San Diego]

Take the job and don't worry about a few dollars shorter than the last job. The last job didn't work out for you. A bird in the hand vs. two in the bush logic is valid here.

[BuffaloBud]

Take it. Option would be to have some sort of performance bonus baked in (% quality improvement over X time).

[Richmond_Bills]

How much you making now?

 

Exactly.

[Joe Miner]

Ask if you can boink the secretary or some other hot coworker in lieu of additional salary.

 

 

 

Seriously though, congrats, and I'd agree with most of the rest here. Take the job if it meets your needs and it's close to what you were making before.

[tennesseeboy]

There are times to quibble and times to go for it. You probably don't have much leverage, so take the job as offered and raise the issue of salary again in a year. You might want to write a nice acceptance letter talking about how much you are impressed with the company and the people you met, how excited about the opportunity you will have to use your skills and help the company in these difficult economic times, and point out that while the salary is not what you had hoped, you understand the present economic situation and hope you can discuss salary and compensation again after a year or so. Congrats.

[rockpile]

Thanks for all the input. I mostly wanted others POV - I am not trying to squeeze them for a couple bucks, but if there were ways to sweeten the pot, I would be a fool not to ask.

 

I spoke to my recruiter, the Veep (my new boss), and the controller today, and everything is falling in place. I will close the deal tomorrow.

 

The hard part for us 50 somethings who have been downsized is that we were making $15K more, just two or three years ago. Of course the current $365/week after taxes from unemployment is easily beat!

 

I can only imagine the feeling of college grads who are $100K in debt with MBAs being offered $25K.

Or some of my peers who either cannot find a job or are being offered $12/hour!

 

There are a lot more positives than negatives, and this job will be a new adventure.

 

I am a lucky man indeed.

[GG]

Listen to what KD has to say.

 

And if you missed it, read it again

[stuckincincy]

Thanks for all the input. I mostly wanted others POV - I am not trying to squeeze them for a couple bucks, but if there were ways to sweeten the pot, I would be a fool not to ask.

 

I spoke to my recruiter, the Veep (my new boss), and the controller today, and everything is falling in place. I will close the deal tomorrow.

 

The hard part for us 50 somethings who have been downsized is that we were making $15K more, just two or three years ago. Of course the current $365/week after taxes from unemployment is easily beat!

 

I can only imagine the feeling of college grads who are $100K in debt with MBAs being offered $25K.

Or some of my peers who either cannot find a job or are being offered $12/hour!

 

There are a lot more positives than negatives, and this job will be a new adventure.

 

I am a lucky man indeed.

 

I knew it would work out someway.

 

"Remember, George, no man is a failure who has friends..."

 

[millbank]

remember......

 

Rocks and Sand

by Stephen R. Covey

 

Here are some good words to remember and live by.

 

A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him. When class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks, rocks about 2" in diameter.

 

He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that it was. So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the open areas between the rocks. The students laughed.

 

The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled everything else. "Now," said the professor, "I want you to recognize that this is your life." "The rocks are the important things - your family, your partner, your health - anything that is so important to you that if were lost, you would be nearly destroyed. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, and your car. The sand is everything else. The small stuff."

 

"If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles, and the rocks. The same goes for your life. If you spend all your energy and time on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your wife out dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give a dinner party and fix the disposal."

 

"Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

 

 

- you are a great person Tom, places are found for such people ............

[rockpile]

"Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

 

 

- you are a great person Tom, places are found for such people ............

 

Thank you, my friend. AND, I always take care of the "rocks" first !

 

If all goes well I will be employed again tomorrow.

[Nanker]

Rock, explore the vacation/personal time off angle if you can and it feels appropriate. See if there's any flexibility in that. Vacation is generally an accrued benefit - so you might not get any time off this year at all - except Holidays. Your maximum leverage point is now - before you accept the job. If they've offered you a position - then they want YOU. However, you don't want to turn them off at the last minute by appearing to be hard-lining over dollars or benefits. It's a pas-de-deux.

 

Good luck!

[dpbillsfan]

Take the job, prove your worth and the money will take care of itself if the company is any good. That's always been my experience.

 

I'd never pass up a job in a good company with good people over "a little" money. And that's magnified in this economy.

 

I almost blew the great job I have now because I was getting too greedy when making a counter offer. They offered x amount I countered with xxx amount and was told "good luck with your job search". I ended up talking my way back into the job almost two years ago and have received a 9% first year raise and total bonus' equaling 13% of my yearly salary last year. This company is great to work for and the people are fantastic.

[BuffOrange]

I'm a little surprised by the replies here. Yes it's a bad economy and yes you are unemployed. Those are usually detriments to getting an offer in the first place. When you get that written offer, not so much - they picked you believing you're the best person for the job.

A scenerio like dpbillsfan's can happen (though I would have to question whether a written offer was actually in place), but in most cases it's much more difficult to get a raise once you've started working somewhere than during the negotiations process (and that's what it is).

[aussiew]

Our prayers are answered Rock. Wonderful news!

[dpbillsfan]

I'm a little surprised by the replies here. Yes it's a bad economy and yes you are unemployed. Those are usually detriments to getting an offer in the first place. When you get that written offer, not so much - they picked you believing you're the best person for the job.

A scenerio like dpbillsfan's can happen (though I would have to question whether a written offer was actually in place), but in most cases it's much more difficult to get a raise once you've started working somewhere than during the negotiations process (and that's what it is).

 

When the offer was made to me it was done verbally over the phone. I was also asking for about 15 % more than the offer. Like I said I got greedy, but you never know until you ask. I knew the company had been looking for the right person to fill the position and thought I could use that to my advantage. I was rewarded quite well after my first review and with the bonus that I received.

[rockpile]

Our prayers are answered Rock. Wonderful news!

 

Thanks! They are having their "holiday party" a week from today at Rick's Prime Rib. Free dinner and two free drinks! I was asked if I liked wine. When I said yes, the receptionist hinted that there would probably be a gift in my office on Monday.

 

Gee, I have walls and a door, no more cube!

[Alaska Darin]

I'm a little surprised by the replies here. Yes it's a bad economy and yes you are unemployed. Those are usually detriments to getting an offer in the first place. When you get that written offer, not so much - they picked you believing you're the best person for the job.

A scenerio like dpbillsfan's can happen (though I would have to question whether a written offer was actually in place), but in most cases it's much more difficult to get a raise once you've started working somewhere than during the negotiations process (and that's what it is).

I've never had any problem getting a raise in a good company. Any company that doesn't pay for merit will have good employees in the rearview mirror pretty quickly. In fact, I've never had to ask for a raise.

[IDBillzFan]

Take the job, prove your worth and the money will take care of itself if the company is any good. That's always been my experience.

 

I'd never pass up a job in a good company with good people over "a little" money. And that's magnified in this economy.

Bingo.

[Fezmid]

- See if you can get more base paid vacation. My last 2 employers had given me an extra week.

I'd second this. My wife works for a non-profit and got 4 weeks of vacation. A year or so later her boss said she would've given 5 weeks if my wife had asked. (why would she even SAY that after the fact?!)

[BillsWatch]

He said he wanted to raise the value of his compensation package, not lower it.

 

He did not say "season tickets next to Ramius" so it does raise the value.

[BillsWatch]

Any and all angles are appreciated! I need to make sure all responsibilites and goals are documented, too.

 

Rock

 

Ask for flexible hours - If you can get a extra day off you can not spend money those days. Another thing to ask for is comp time - you work more when busy and get recorded time off another day when not busy; a way of getting more vacation time. Neither costs anything to company except paperwork and are valuable to employees.

[Chandler#81]

Congrats and Best wishes on the new endeavor, Rock!