Hot Take: “Old Joe” Flacco exposing what some (including me) suspected…

[nuklz2594]

if Joe burrow was the pats QB, we'd better looking at a serious contender

[uninja]

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I mean, if you’d like to compare Tom Brady to Joe Burrow in order to make your point, that’s fine. 
 

How do you think Tom would have done with Chase and Higgins?

Probably pretty well, I mean just look at the 2007 Randy Moss season

[BullBuchanan]

If you're saying he isn't elite, you haven't been watching him play. He was arguably the best quarterback in football last year. Flacco isn't doing what he did.

[GunnerBill]

The Bengals are 45-32-1 with Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.576 win percentage.

The Bengals are 7-14 without Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.333 win percentage.

 

He isn't perfect, he holds the ball too long at times which for a QB with limited mobility should be a no-no but he is in the elite club. No question. 

[Ralonzo]

24 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Burrow is very good. He is elite passer and arm talent

 

Elite passer yes, not elite arm talent. It's the head talent that makes him a great passer, processing and recognition.

[eball]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Bengals are 45-32-1 with Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.576 win percentage.

The Bengals are 7-14 without Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.333 win percentage.

 

He isn't perfect, he holds the ball too long at times which for a QB with limited mobility should be a no-no but he is in the elite club. No question. 

 

If you replace Allen, Mahomes, or Jackson with Burrow, what do you think happens to the fortunes of the Bills, Chiefs, and Ravens?

 

Serious question.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, eball said:

…that perhaps Joe Burrow ain’t so “elite” and is more the product of a pretty fantastic set of weapons.  Flame away.

 

 

the bengals front office has the same fear. Otherwise it makes no sense investing how much they do in their receivers.

[Maine-iac]

16 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Browning was pretty good two years ago…definitely was terrible this year though for sure lol

Browning played the Vikings, Broncos, and Detroit back to back.  Two out of the three are top ten in passing yards allowed and Detroit is in the top 12.  Flacco had some good games against the Bears who top ten worst and the Steelers who are dead last against the pass.  All just a hunch but I'm guessing Flacco will come back down to earth when he plays better teams regardless of how good his WR's are.  I don't think Browning is great but I think he got thrown in versus much better pass defenses.  By the end of the season I think it will be much more of a toss up as to whether Flacco made any difference.  He hasn't put a ton of Ws in the win column.

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Bengals are 45-32-1 with Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.576 win percentage.

The Bengals are 7-14 without Joe Burrow since he was drafted. For a 0.333 win percentage.

 

He isn't perfect, he holds the ball too long at times which for a QB with limited mobility should be a no-no but he is in the elite club. No question. 

Funny thing is Burrows came into the league as a a mobile QB.  He's just so injury prone and he plays in an offense where he gets hit like the used to in the Mike Martz days.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, eball said:

 

If you replace Allen, Mahomes, or Jackson with Burrow, what do you think happens to the fortunes of the Bills, Chiefs, and Ravens?

 

Serious question.

 

 

They'd suffer too, obviously. We have seen plenty of the Ravens without Lamar and it isn't pretty. We haven't seen much recent evidence of Bills or Chiefs without their guy but Matt Barkley once led the Bills to 41 points. It didn't mean they weren't better with Josh Allen. 

 

I don't think Joe Flacco's performance on Sunday tells us anything other than if you want a backup QB in the NFL then you can still do a lot worse than former Superbowl MVP Joe Flacco. In other news, water is indeed wet.

[eball]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They'd suffer too, obviously. We have seen plenty of the Ravens without Lamar and it isn't pretty. We haven't seen much recent evidence of Bills or Chiefs without their guy but Matt Barkley once led the Bills to 41 points. It didn't mean they weren't better with Josh Allen. 

 

I don't think Joe Flacco's performance on Sunday tells us anything other than if you want a backup QB in the NFL then you can still do a lot worse than former Superbowl MVP Joe Flacco. In other news, water is indeed wet.

 

So it sounds like you're essentially agreeing that Burrow is not in those three QBs' echelon -- which is really my point.  He's a good QB but I am not sold on him as a "put the team on my back" elite guy, which those three clearly are.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

How about Flacco and Burrow are both very good?

 

The defense is the problem there.

 

Bengals are 1-4 when scoring 38+ points in last 2 years, other 31 teams combined are 62-4-2.

 

If I were starting a team from scratch and given the choice, I'd pick Burrow over Lamar.

[K-9]

I’m not sure who the OP disrespects more; Burrow or Flacco. 

[MDH]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Sounds like Josh has a really crappy defense in the postseason. Not sure how that makes Joe Burrow crappy.

He’s not crappy, he’s elite, despite what the OP is suggesting. His biggest problem is his availability. Burrow has now missed as many games as Tua due to injury. He will surpass him this weekend. 

 

That said, Burrow has got a lot of mileage out of that Super Bowl run and it’s undeserved. The D CARRIED them to the SB. They caused 9 turnovers that post-season and allowed an average of 20ppg. And those turnovers came in big spots, late in games. The Burrow led offense only put up 23ppg despite the great field position that the D continuously gave them.

 

Bottom line is there are lots of things to point to that -legitimately- make the case for Burrow being elite. However, a SB appearance (where the Bengals won the turnover battle and only allowed 23 points yet still lost) isn’t one of them.

[billieve420]

I will say that Flacco playing behind same line that everyone called terrible probably indicates some of their issues can be blamed on Burrow.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

We saw it when Jake Browning had them on the cusp of the playoffs in 2023 when Burrow went down. 
 

Burrow threw 5 touchdowns to 2 interceptions in their four game run to the Super Bowl in 2021. His defense allowed an average of 20 points in those 4 games, while his offense averaged 23. 
 

He came into the league with a silver spoon in his mouth because of the Heisman and National Championship win. He’s extremely talented, but he’s also part of the reason why his team is terrible. 
 

He’s always hurt and he took a fat contract, while also pleading with ownership to pay his two WR fat contracts. They don’t and can’t have the components it takes to win football games. 

 

I'd just like to point out here that there's some cause-and-effect blend here.  Burrow is essentially what Flacco was - a classic pocket QB who makes his living (as others have said) by reading the D pre and post snap and understanding exactly where to go with the ball, and being wiling to stay in the pocket and take a hit to deliver it.  He's usually toward the top of the league in sacks taken, with most everyone else being rookies or young players.

 

That's the reason he's always hurt.  If his O-line isn't up to snuff, he's going to get hit - a lot.

[Jrb1979]

42 minutes ago, eball said:

 

So it sounds like you're essentially agreeing that Burrow is not in those three QBs' echelon -- which is really my point.  He's a good QB but I am not sold on him as a "put the team on my back" elite guy, which those three clearly are.

 

Burrow may not be elite. I will add a hot take to your hot take. Mayfield should be in the same echelon as Lamar, Allen and Mahomes. 

[Fleezoid]

If he could stay on the field, he might be very good. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

The only definite thing we know is Joe Burrow and Joe Flacco will never beat Josh Allen in a foot race.

[transient]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

The only definite thing we know is Joe Burrow and Joe Flacco will never beat Josh Allen in a foot race.

Also, we know definitively that those are three QBs who have never been in my kitchen, Alex!!!

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, eball said:

 

So it sounds like you're essentially agreeing that Burrow is not in those three QBs' echelon -- which is really my point.  He's a good QB but I am not sold on him as a "put the team on my back" elite guy, which those three clearly are.

 

 

I am not agreeing with that. I think he is 4th on the list, sure. But I think he is still in that tier. He was incredible last season and had his team been better he'd have been MVP.