Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Low Positive said:

I knew people would overreact to a meaningless game, but this board is really over the top with negativity right now. I'm just happy nobody got hurt.

Bingo

[Process]

1 hour ago, FLFan said:

Shenault did look good in the return game but the Bills cannot afford to keep him on as a returner only, and his history suggests he will never be a productive WR.

Why not? The alternative is Codrington, who is also a returner only...

[34-78-83]

I thought Michael Hoecht played better than you did Gunner, but I think you are spot on about all the rest.

 

 

Section on Hoecht and Milano ^

 

 

 and from cover 1

 

 

Edited August 15 by 34-78-83

[Process]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Jackson would have to VASTLY improve before being on AJE'S level. And I'm not a huge AJE fan.

Crazy to make this conclusion after one preseason game

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

Crazy to make this conclusion after one preseason game

Yes. Based off what I've seen today and read about TC...that is my assessment as to where I see him now. Doesn't mean it wouldn't change over time. I hope it does 

Edited August 10 by BuffaloBillyG

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

Crazy to make this conclusion after one preseason game

Exactly. He looked a bit overwhelmed. If I coached the team, he would get a lot of snaps in the remaining two PS games just to let him adjust to game speed.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough. Hoecht will miss the first six weeks of the regular season through a doping ban so you would have wanted to see him go full gas in pre-season. And to an extent he did, but in a really reckless way. He ran himself out of multiple plays, struggled to generate pressure on the Quarterback and left wide open escape lanes for dump offs, screens and QB run plays. The Bills are committed for three years so as soon as he is healthy he will be back in the fold, but he has some work to do. Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books. 

 

 

Agree about Hoecht. When I saw him out there running around wasting a lot of energy, I thought maybe it was Landon Jackson.

 

Hoecht did not look like a savvy veteran to me.

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

At RB, Davis didn't make anyone miss Cook less. But man, Little Gore is fun to watch with the ball in his hands. 

 

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

Oh, I should probably mention that Ty Johnson is still the man.

 

It was a positive to see James Cook in uniform and going through the pregames.

 

I hate to think of the Bills without him.

 

23 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I am not a fan as I have stated many times of the defensive free agent class.  I am of the opinion that it was really bad and Beane blew it.

 

Today didn’t make me feel any different.  Ogunjobi, hoecht, Forrest all looked pretty pedestrian at best.  I don’t care how bosa played today because I know who he is as a player.

 

If they missed on Jackson and Hairston is on ir to start the season this defense is going to cost this team a bunch of games.  That is just to many misses in one offseason on the defensive side of the ball when they are in desperate need for difference makers.

 

Hopefully sanders, walker, Hancock and strong can help and improve each week.  

 

To me it's a numbers game and the heavy investment in defense will pay off. Between the 3 veteran free agents and the 6 draftees, I remain optimistic that the defense will be improved.

 

It's a matter of how improved they'll be.

 

17 minutes ago, Process said:

Why not? The alternative is Codrington, who is also a returner only...

 

I seem to recall that Codrington had a nice pass breakup. Also, the Bills invested a pick when trading for him.

 

He averaged 11.6 ypr on punts and 27.8 ypr on kicks.

 

I think it'll be pretty close between Shenault and Codrington.

 

[Ralonzo]

Bad night:

 

[Coach Tuesday]

34 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I thought Michael Hoecht played better than you did Gunner, but I think you are spot on about all the rest.

@GunnerBill was in there tonight?  Must’ve missed that.  How’d he do?

[Ralonzo]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

@GunnerBill was in there tonight?  Must’ve missed that.  How’d he do?

 

Same number of reps won as Landon Jackson

[34-78-83]

16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

@GunnerBill was in there tonight?  Must’ve missed that.  How’d he do?

🤣 

[Simon]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Landon Jackson - Let me start with this - Landon Jackson is never going to be a big time quick twitch, bendy edge rusher. That is not how he is going to win. But he looked very stiff and upright today

 

He was totally stiff at Arkansas too. I've never been able to see what other folks are seeing with him.

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough.  Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books.

 

I have to wonder if they were so scheme free that they just cut everybody loose and told them to go play.

I did see him read one screen and force Dart to go away from it but 2 downs later he was in no man's land again.

One good thing I thought he showed was a lot of power on the move. 

 

A guy I thought you could have added to your Good Day list was Jordan Hancock.

Despite being asked to learn multiple positions, I thought he looked like he belonged out there already.

I may be biased though because I loved the draft pick.

 

[Breakout Squad]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I hope we didn't waste a 3rd rounder.

Jackson didn’t do squat. He looked completely out of place. If he wasn’t a 3rd rounder pick he’d be a possible cut. 

[Ralonzo]

I thought Landon Jackson was outstanding.

 

By that I mean, when his first pash rush move was defeated (on every rep) he was just out standing around. Either he doesn't know any counters which means the coaches have failed him and he's a long term project while they try to teach him, or he can't switch up his leverage points because he's so upright and stiff. Either way, this is 1/53rd of the roster they'll just have to carry and try to make him a T-1000 type robot in 26 or 27.

[MJS]

That's so funny you were down on Michael Hoecht because Joe Marino raved about him and said he was excellent in run defense, had a great get off, and was the most effective pass rusher.

[folz]

Tough to say anyone had a good game or bad game based on such limited playing time...but these are the guys who flashed for me.

 

First off, Milano, Taron Johnson, and Ty Johnson all looked like they were in mid-season form already. Happy about that.

 

It was a little slow going at the start for both QBs, but in the end, Trubisky and White both played pretty well. Even Buechele led what was almost a game-winning drive.

 

But these are the guys who flashed (positively) for me:

WR Tyrell Shavers

RB Frank Gore, Jr.

LB Joe Andreessen

LB Jimmy Ciarlo

TE Stephen Gosnell

WR Kristian Wilkerson

CB/S Cam Lewis

TE Keleki Latu (only one catch, but he also had a great block, and a great special teams tackle)

 

and shout out to Keonta Jenkins for leading the team in tackles (with 5 solo tackles) and Te'Cory Couch who had a couple of nice pass breakups.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

For future reference can someone explain to me the difference between good night bad night and arrow up and arrow down?  I want to make sure I go to the official complain about games that dont matter post.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It's pre-season football which means by no popular acclaim whatsoever it's time for the annual tradition like no other..... it's Gunner's Good Night / Bad Night as the New York Football Giants left Orchard Park victorious. By the way... did you know a new stadium is being built? Yea, right across the street apparently. Oh and there was some football happening too. Here is how it went down!

 

Good Night for...

 

Joe Andreessen - This time last year Buffalo Joe just felt like a nice story. Even coming into the spring I thought there was a chance it was a one year deal and he would be off the roster in 2025. But far from that he got the start here alongside Matt Milano in the absence of Terrel Bernard who has been nursing a hamstring injury through camp. Andreessen was typically active including a nice tackle for loss in the second quarter and was calling the defense. He looks pretty settled in as the backup MLB at this stage and the fairy tale looks like continuing into a second year. 

 

Mitch Trubisky - Their stat lines ended up being similar as Mike White rebounded to lead touchdown drives the last two times he took to the field. However, the eye test told you pretty clearly who looked more comfortable running the offense and who threw the more accurate balls. Add to that Trubsiky's mobility allows you to create more ways of generating offense in the worst case scenario where your backup has to play meaningful football. His grip on the backup job just tightened. 

 

Deone Walker - The 4th round rookie was not my favourite pick of the past draft and this was not a perfect debut. My concerns over his pad level and ability to bend remain and I think he gave up leverage a couple of times trying to play the run. But flashed in pass defense, getting a hand on one ball and being a constant disruptive force in the middle of the defensive line. I am not sure he is going to be a high snap count guy as a rookie but I can absolutely see him being used as an impactful situational player because he flashes those traits that are hard to buy at that size.  

 

Tyrell Shavers - Ultimately I still think Shavers' route to a spot on the 53 is narrow. But he has separated throughout camp into a category almost of his own where he is behind the top five guys but clearly ahead of the other receivers. His chances might depend on who wins the returner job, because if Laviska Shenault wins it then there is no chance they keep Shavers as a WR7. But if Shenault does not then them keeping a 6th receiver would appear to tilt towards Shavers making it after two years on the practice squad. I still suspect he is cut (and they try to sneak him onto the PS again) but this might be the toughest cut to make. 

 

Te'Cory Couch - Couch was a player that flashed last pre-season too but this was a really impressive display with two pass breakups, a big tackle in the run game when the Giants were backed up and another excellent coverage rep. I don't see a route to the 53 here for him but if he keeps making plays when he gets his opportunity then the chances of him earning a spot on an active roster elsewhere increases significantly. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

3rd down defense - The Giants were 9 for 19 on third down for 43% - which is exactly where the Bills were in 2024 percentage wise and that was good for 29th in the NFL. At times in the first half it felt even worse than that number suggests. This is a sustained issue now under Bobby Babich's coordinating and he better be feeling the heat to get it fixed. The Bills do not seem able to dictate in any way to the offense on 3rd down. Even when it is 3rd and long. 

 

Zach Davidson - Okay Jackson Hawes, Davidson's competition for TE3, had a bad drop as well but he has ways to make this team without being a big time receiving threat. Davidson doesn't and he had two brutal drops today. You could see his frustration on the field. That felt like a man who knew he was letting his chance pass him by. 

 

Landon Jackson - Let me start with this - Landon Jackson is never going to be a big time quick twitch, bendy edge rusher. That is not how he is going to win. But he looked very stiff and upright today and really struggled when his blockers got the first punch in within a rep. You'd want to see a little more fluidity through the hips and a little better use of the hands. The story at Arkansas was his inconsistency... the Bills have time to bring him along slowly... but it was an inauspicious beginning. 

 

Michael Hoecht - Ugh that was rough. Hoecht will miss the first six weeks of the regular season through a doping ban so you would have wanted to see him go full gas in pre-season. And to an extent he did, but in a really reckless way. He ran himself out of multiple plays, struggled to generate pressure on the Quarterback and left wide open escape lanes for dump offs, screens and QB run plays. The Bills are committed for three years so as soon as he is healthy he will be back in the fold, but he has some work to do. Guys who lose gap discipline and freelance in their rush plan don't tend to end up in Coach McDermott's good books. 

 

Dane Jackson - I think he probably faced an uphill battle to make the roster in any event but Jackson was outplayed by the likes of Dorian Strong and the aforementioned Te'Cory Couch let alone the starter. Wasn't just that he was beat for the long touchdown but he didn't quite seem the same fundamentally sound guy we remember from his first spell in Buffalo. I doubt this is the final good bye as I imagine sneaking him to one of the six practice squad spots saved for vets will be relatively achievable but he did not help his cause today.

 

 

Flame away folks, there will be another of these next week!

 

 

Hawes will make the roster for his blocking and from everything said, he can catch the ball, just don't expect him to run much with it afterwards, but as a #3 TE there for blocking, that's fine.

 

Thew other WR who had a good day again is Wilkerson.

 

I like Walker, think next season he will take Jones place as has the size for it.

 

Overall, as far as the rookies go, they all need time to learn.

 

 

2 hours ago, NickelCity said:

I don't disagree with much of that TBH. I'd only add that Shenault looked like the best returner...making Shavers an even more painful cut.

 

It's interesting that Hoecht was Joe Marino's favorite performance in this game.

 

I  think it would make more sense to keep Shenault over Coddington as either one you're keeping for the return capabilities, not their respective positional play.  But the Bills have a number a players in the secondary that can fill multiple roles,  Lewis, Hancock, even Hoecht at LB or DE.  Think I'm leaving out someone who can play LB or S too??  But at WR they really don't have as much versatility and not sure anyone has the speed that Shenault  has so in that sense, he actually brings a unique role to the team. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

36 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

He was totally stiff at Arkansas too. I've never been able to see what other folks are seeing with him.

 

Yeah, his 1v1 tape from the Senior bowl was bad - and it looks just like what happened tonight. Bad footwork, bad leverage, bad football. Hopefully he can pick up some counter moves and a lot better balance while hand fighting. Seems a way off for him though. If he works in the off season as Josh did, he has a chance.

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Crazy to make this conclusion after one preseason game

I was wildly unimpressed today and we haven't heard his name very much out of camp either. If you told me he was a UDFA they brought in last week I wouldn't have questioned it.