Ranking the 15 greatest Bills ever

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What would really be interesting is the Top Ten players who played for the Bills but went on to bigger things after leaving. 

 

That’s better suited for a Sabres thread.

 

Would get to 100 pages in a day.  

[BigDingus]

So what's the difference between AFL MVP & AFL Player of the Year?

 

I see that Cookie Gilchrist was the AFL MVP while Jack Kemp was the AFL Player of the Year & was kinda confused. Also didn't know they had AFL All-Pros & All Stars (I guess like Pro Bowlers). That's cool.

 

My personal top 15:

 

1. Bruce Smith

2. OJ Simpson

3. Thurman Thomas

4. Josh Allen

5. Jim Kelly

6. Andre Reed

7. Joe DeLamielleure

8. Billy Shaw 

9. Steve Tasker

10. Fred Smerlas

11. Cornelius Bennett 

12. Kyle Williams

13. Darryl Talley

14. Eric Moulds

15. Ruben Brown (yeah, I said it!) 

 

I'm only confident in my top 6 though, the rest I bounce around (especially those I've only seen in replays & sports docs).

Edited 23 hours ago by BigDingus

[uticaclub]

Clickbait bull####

[AverageAllensSuspensor]

1. Scott Norwood

2. Aaron Maybin

3. EJ Manuel

4. J.P. Losman

5. Mike Williams

6. Sammy Watkins

7. Cierre Wood

8. Tom Cusineau

9. John McCargo

10. T.J. Graham

11. James Hardy

12. Lodis McKelvin

13. Trent Edwards

14. Ron Edwards

15. Erik Flowers

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

2002?  Did you watch Music City Miracle and think SIGN ME UP!!!!!

 

No I watched a dreadful Detroit - Buffalo pre-season game 😜

[Kirby Jackson]

17 hours ago, MJS said:

I have Kelly over Allen as well. Kelly took us to 4 superbowls. It isn't a list of talent. Considering the overall Impact, I think Kelly did more. But I have no doubt that Allen will surpass him.

There’s not one thing Kelly did better than Allen. In fact, Kelly was bad in the playoffs. Frank Reich was 2-0 in that span. Don’t confuse winning with a good QB for winning because of a good QB. The early 90’s Bills were the 2025 Eagles. The difference is Jalen Hurts is a better playoff performer than Kelly. There’s not a single thing that Jim Kelly was better at than Josh Allen.

 
I used the Jalen Hurts argument earlier in the offseason. Jim Kelly was the Jalen Hurts of his day. He was a top 5ish QB that won a lot. Josh Allen is the MVP of the league. It’s not comparable. 
 

EDIT: I’m not sure what anyone is disagreeing with? What is there to disagree with? We can Google their statistics in the playoffs. I’m not sure that a reasonable argument can be made, skill wise as to anything Kelly did better than Allen. Toughness was Kelly’s best quality. Allen has that in spades as well. I’m not sure why the topic of Allen being better than Kelly bothers Bills fans? Honestly, it’s not very close. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[oldmanfan]

45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There’s not one thing Kelly did better than Allen. In fact, Kelly was bad in the playoffs. Frank Reich was 2-0 in that span. Don’t confuse winning with a good QB for winning because of a good QB. The early 90’s Bills were the 2025 Eagles. The difference is Jalen Hurts is a better playoff performer than Kelly. There’s not a single thing that Jim Kelly was better at than Josh Allen.

 
I used the Jalen Hurts argument earlier in the offseason. Jim Kelly was the Jalen Hurts of his day. He was a top 5ish QB that won a lot. Josh Allen is the MVP of the league. It’s not comparable. 

I would suggest Kelly was better throwing the long ball.  And you cannot discount that he called all the plays.  I have no doubt that Allen will be with Bruce at the top of the list when all is said and done, but that does not mean one has to denigrate a first ballot HOFer in Kelly.

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would suggest Kelly was better throwing the long ball.  And you cannot discount that he called all the plays.  I have no doubt that Allen will be with Bruce at the top of the list when all is said and done, but that does not mean one has to denigrate a first ballot HOFer in Kelly.

All fair and it’s not denigrating Kelly in anyway (at least it isn’t intended to). He is a HOFer and he belongs there. He just a HOFer in the same way that Mike Mussina is a HOFer not in the way that Willie Mays is a HOFer.
 

I’d argue, that he was the Jalen Hurts of his era. Hurts has been a Pro Bowler. Hurts has been an all pro. Hurts has led an elite roster to the Super Bowl multiple times. Hurts has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league but never considered at the top. The biggest difference is that Hurts has been elite in the Super Bowl. They are a lot more alike than people want to admit. If Hurts wins another, which he may, we are in for some tough conversations around here.
 

Kelly in retrospect is much better than Kelly in actuality. The nostalgia of those teams have clouded the reality that Kelly was a very good QB and Marv a pretty good coach. Bruce was the guy. Thurman was next. Andre and Kelly were similar. The role players were outstanding and they were really good at the LOS. Those teams were so good. Much in the way though that Eagles fans want Hurts in the conversation with Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Mahomes, Bills fans want Kelly in the conversation with Marino/Elway/Montana and then Young/Favre. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[dcinmuncie]

4 hours ago, AverageAllensSuspensor said:

1. Scott Norwood

2. Aaron Maybin

3. EJ Manuel

4. J.P. Losman

5. Mike Williams

6. Sammy Watkins

7. Cierre Wood

8. Tom Cusineau

9. John McCargo

10. T.J. Graham

11. James Hardy

12. Lodis McKelvin

13. Trent Edwards

14. Ron Edwards

15. Erik Flowers

you forgot ko simpson and charles clay

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

All fair and it’s not denigrating Kelly in anyway (at least it isn’t intended to). He is a HOFer and he belongs there. He just a HOFer in the same way that Mike Mussina is a HOFer not in the way that Willie Mays is a HOFer.
 

I’d argue, that he was the Jalen Hurts of his era. Hurts has been a Pro Bowler. Hurts has been an all pro. Hurts has led an elite roster to the Super Bowl multiple times. Hurts has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league but never considered at the top. The biggest difference is that Hurts has been elite in the Super Bowl. They are a lot more alike than people want to admit. If Hurts wins another, which he may, we are in for some tough conversations around here.
 

Kelly in retrospect is much better than Kelly in actuality. The nostalgia of those teams have clouded the reality that Kelly was a very good QB and Marv a pretty good coach. Bruce was the guy. Thurman was next. Andre and Kelly were similar. The role players were outstanding and they were really good at the LOS. Those teams were so good. Much in the way though that Eagles fans want Hurts in the conversation with Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Mahomes, Bills fans want Kelly in the conversation with Marino/Elway/Montana and then Young/Favre. 

 

I think another example is Goff and Stafford in Detroit.

 

We all know the Lions have had far better team success with Goff. But Lions Stafford was an absolute force at QB for quite a while.

 

i think if Lions are listing their all time great QBs, Stafford is above Goff. Despite not having the same team success. Because they all know he was better.

[wppete]

Josh Allen #1 already. 

[chris heff]

10 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Off the top of my head and in no particular order:

Josh Allen (QB)

Bruce Smith (DE)

Jim Kelly (QB)

Thurman Thomas (RB)

Terrell Owens (WR)

Andre Reed (WR)

Jason Peters (T)

Mario Williams (DE)

Takeo Spikes (LB)

London Fletcher (LB)

Pat Williams (DT)

Ted Washington (DT)

Kyle Williams (DT)

Aaron Schobel (DE)

Jerry Hughes (DE)

Eric Moulds (WR)

James Lofton (WR)

Stefon Diggs (WR)

LeSean McCoy (RB)

Travis Henry (RB)

Nate Clements (CB)

Jairus Byrd (S)

Nate Odoms (S)

Terrence McGee (CB)

Tre White (CB)

Jabari Greer (CB)

Eric Wood (C)

Mitch Morse (C)

Dion Dawkins (LT)

Darryl Talley (LB)

Bryce Paup (LB)

Cornelius Bennett (LB)

Chris Spielman (LB)

Steve Tasker (ST)

Don Beebe (WR)

Eric Moulds (WR)

Stevie Johnson (WR)

Jordan Poyer (S)

Micah Hyde (S)

Where is Joe Dufek?

[Einstein]

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

Tasker too high, Kelly too high, Josh too low.

Agreed. Kelly and Josh should switch places.

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Josh Allen #1 already. 

He is very close. 
I can understand why some would put Bruce above him right now, but I wouldn't make any argent for Allen being #1 either.

[corta765]

18 hours ago, njbuff said:

I’ll start with who belongs on be list and worry about the rankings later.

 

Kyle Williams

Thurman Thomas

Jim Kelly

Andre Reed 

Joe Delamielleure

Eric Moulds

Bruce Smith

OJ Simpson

Kent Hull

Cornelius Bennett

Josh Allen

Billy Shaw

Butch Byrd

Cookie Gilchrist

Steve Tasker

 

Way to ignore Jeff Tuel

[Pete]

18 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The list is clearly made by outsiders. No knowledgable Bills fan has Kelly over Allen. 
 

The top 3 are: Bruce, OJ and Josh (in whatever order). Thurman is next. Andre and Kelly are the next 2. Joe D follows them. From there, it’s a little subjective.

When I was young, my Father played basketball with Bills players.  We went to cookouts at Joe D’s house- great memories!

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

All fair and it’s not denigrating Kelly in anyway (at least it isn’t intended to). He is a HOFer and he belongs there. He just a HOFer in the same way that Mike Mussina is a HOFer not in the way that Willie Mays is a HOFer.
 

I’d argue, that he was the Jalen Hurts of his era. Hurts has been a Pro Bowler. Hurts has been an all pro. Hurts has led an elite roster to the Super Bowl multiple times. Hurts has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league but never considered at the top. The biggest difference is that Hurts has been elite in the Super Bowl. They are a lot more alike than people want to admit. If Hurts wins another, which he may, we are in for some tough conversations around here.
 

Kelly in retrospect is much better than Kelly in actuality. The nostalgia of those teams have clouded the reality that Kelly was a very good QB and Marv a pretty good coach. Bruce was the guy. Thurman was next. Andre and Kelly were similar. The role players were outstanding and they were really good at the LOS. Those teams were so good. Much in the way though that Eagles fans want Hurts in the conversation with Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Mahomes, Bills fans want Kelly in the conversation with Marino/Elway/Montana and then Young/Favre. 

Hurts and Kelly is a great comparison imo.  Today’s team benefits from Josh and all his skills and leadership.  Kelly benefited from excellent skills players, Oline, DLine, CB, S, LB, and greatest special teamer ever- 89. Not to forget- Mark Pike

[EasternOHBillsFan]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

If we're talking about career as a whole and not just with the Bills then you'd have to include Owens.  If you're talking about career as a Bill I'd put Diggs and Evans ahead of Lofton.

 

Lofton was an important part of our high scoring offense by stretching the field in most of our Super Bowl years. I never felt like TO, Diggs or Evans were as crucial as Reed, Lofton or Moulds.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

It's easy to knit pick the original list.  I can't omit Tom Sestak.  The guy was a beast and was dominant in the AFL championship years.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Lofton was an important part of our high scoring offense by stretching the field in most of our Super Bowl years. I never felt like TO, Diggs or Evans were as crucial as Reed, Lofton or Moulds.

By that standard Moulds shouldn't even make it then.  Lofton was important but he wasn't the WR1 was like Diggs.  Allen and his connection were the engine that drove the best four years of consistent offensive performance we've ever had.  Plus, he was absolutely vital to Josh's development.  To me four pro bowl caliber years leading to your team at minimum winning the division title four times in a row and going 2-2 in the Divisional round in what was a tougher conference now compared to the 90's is more impressive.  Lofton only went over 1,000 yards once in the first three Super Bowl years.  I'd put Diggs ahead of him.

[Kirby Jackson]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

Hurts and Kelly is a great comparison imo.  Today’s team benefits from Josh and all his skills and leadership.  Kelly benefited from excellent skills players, Oline, DLine, CB, S, LB, and greatest special teamer ever- 89. Not to forget- Mark Pike

If you took a Kelly/Hurts conversation to an Eagles message board, 90% would side with Hurts. “He was great in the Super Bowl when they lost and won the other.” That’s what makes it a reasonable argument. Each fan base would argue for their guy. Reasonable Eagles fans wouldn’t try to make the case that Hurts is over Allen (and yes I see the vocal minority on the internet that think Hurts should be 1). Those aren’t the reasonable ones.

Edited 14 hours ago by Kirby Jackson