2025 OTAs are underway

[DapperCam]

My expectations for Tre White are super low. The only sliver of hope I have, is that it’s possible he recovers some of his speed the further we get from his Achilles tear.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I liked Cooper and still agree with the trade at the time.

Moore as has been said, has never played with a good QB. He could be a nice steal. 

If Coleman can get better and produce double what Hollins did he will be fine. If Coleman is playing well outside then Moore will take away some of Samuels slot routes. 

Wildcard in targets will be Kincaid. Can he be an 80 reception guy ???

 

Moore's speed is something that has been sorely lacking.  If he can primarily play outside it's a huge win.  And both his and Palmer's ability to separate are things that were lacking last year.  If they can out-produce the combined output of Hollins/Coleman/Cooper (I suspect Shakir may be the top producer again), they'll be fine.

[buffaloboyinATL]

15 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Tank for Arch Manning!

I believe the term is Canning for Manning...

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I believe the term is Canning for Manning...

March for Arch?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I just *keep* hearing rave reviews about Elijah Moore. Obviously let's see what happens when the pads come on but it would be great if we had a major find

[HappyDays]

 

[syhuang]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, DapperCam said:

My expectations for Tre White are super low. The only sliver of hope I have, is that it’s possible he recovers some of his speed the further we get from his Achilles tear.

I have a much different view.  

 

Playing corner in McDermott's defense is all about, all about, knowing and executing the assignment. Very good physical ability, let alone exceptional ability, is a plus but not essential.  That's why Levi Wallace could start in Buffalo, and why a player like Dane Jackson can survive on this roster.  When he gets on the field, McDermott knows that Jackson will execute every play as well as he possibly can, play after play.  

 

White thrived in Buffalo because he understood and execute the defense flawlessly, and he had first-round physical ability.  If he's lost a step, he's Levi Wallace, and McDermott will be happy to him on the field, because he will help anchor the defensive backfield. I don't think he's taking a spot from either Hairston or Benford, but I think he's nearly a lock for the final 53. He's almost certainly taking Jackson's spot. 

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, DapperCam said:

My expectations for Tre White are super low. The only sliver of hope I have, is that it’s possible he recovers some of his speed the further we get from his Achilles tear.

He didn’t look that bad in the Divisional gm. Started, I didn't feel like he was getting picked on, I think he would've been an improvement over Rasul and def Elam in title game 

Keon and Kincaid are going to make this offense unstoppable 

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

4.46 is not good speed for a 5'11" NFL boundary CB though.   He was never quick/fast for the type of player he was. 

 

And Tre White probably couldn't break 4.7 with a 40 mph wind at his back these days.  

 

I've told the story about the time the NFL hilariously tried a veteran combine........those 4.6's turned into 4.9's by age 26.  

 

The track numbers usually erode quickly and Tre's legs are hamburger at this point.

 

Also,  the difference between 4.46 and 4.42 is 4 hundreds of a second.   That's what you were thinking of.   A millisecond is a thousandth of a second.

 

Not that it's relevant because Cook doesn't play on the boundary where the NFL's fastest players live.   Apples and oranges.

Yeah I know it's hundredths of a second.. the first is tenths the second is hundredths.. I don't know why I called it milliseconds just cuz I wrote a paragraph and I was tired 

 

Point stands 4.46 might not be blazing fast but it is not slow . . Especially when he came out.. he had some of the fastest burst in the NFL his closing speed was elite.. you say he wasn't quick but he absolutely had some of the best closing speed at cornerback in the NFL... That's why he all prod.. he can sit 7 yd off and jump routes with  elite closing burst

 

Odell Beckham ran a 4.46 and he's not slow.. it's not blazing fast for a 5'11 boundary corner in the modern NFL but it still is not slow.. xavian Howard ran a 4.56 barely 6'.. our own Christian Benford is in 4.5s

 

I've seen Tre White run step for step down the boundary with Tyreek hill before.. step for step.. now it's totally okay to say he's lost a step 

 

 but when he came into the league he did have elite burst closing on the football which made him special for those couple of seasons

7 hours ago, finn said:

But what makes you think he still can run a 4.46 after blowing out his ACL and Achilles?  (He's also turned 30 in January.) He might be running a 4.56 for all we know. 

That is also very true 

 

 but he also gets world class training and rehab... And you just need to keep your burst for 3 to 5 seconds per play 

 

Again I'm not saying he's as fast as he was coming out but I am absolutely sticking up for him and saying he was not slow coming out of college

Edited 22 hours ago by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, finn said:

But what makes you think he still can run a 4.46 after blowing out his ACL and Achilles?  (He's also turned 30 in January.) He might be running a 4.56 for all we know. 

Is that 4.56 faster than the 4.58 Benford ran in college?  

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Im putting more stock in the fact that hes running with the ones more than I am that hes getting toasted.  Given his experience with the team its maybe not too surprising.  However, I think who hes running with tells me he has a better chance of making the 53 than Dane and JaMarcus who also have experience with the team.  Hes already ahead of them on the depth chart (and i dont see reports of them getting any first team reps).  I still think he makes the 53 but is game day inactive (Kair treatment from last year; starting or no jersey cause no ST).  

 

I wouldn't, personally. It's June OTA's.

 

They could easily be trying him there just to test him and see where he's at. I also don't think he's been exclusively running with the 1's. A good percentage of the negative reports have come from him being owned by Elijah Moore. 

 

They could easily see him looking bad with 1's and he is no longer out there in Training Camp. There's been a number of guys throughout the years, especially when there's a positional battle, that have gotten time with the 1's at one point or another and not made the team. 

 

Again, I hope he makes it. But I wouldn't look at overwhelmingly negative reports of a player and think "well, he's running with the 1's in June so it doesn't matter how bad he reportedly looks - he's safe".

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

White thrived in Buffalo because he understood and execute the defense flawlessly, and he had first-round physical ability.  If he's lost a step, he's Levi Wallace, and McDermott will be happy to him on the field, because he will help anchor the defensive backfield. I don't think he's taking a spot from either Hairston or Benford, but I think he's nearly a lock for the final 53. He's almost certainly taking Jackson's spot. 

 

But if he's lost more than a step and that's looking like a real possibility, he may not be able to execute the Defense flawlessly. At this point, he may not even be Prime Levi Wallace or Dane Jackson.

 

I can't remember a time when Levi (or any other CB really) had it reported that "it wasn't a good day for them" by every reporter on a consistent, every day basis. If he's struggling that badly and it continues through Training Camp, I don't think you can say "he knows the Defense and that will get him by".

 

We only lost 2 CB's and brought in 5 between the Draft (Hairston, Hancock (who may or may not fall under the Safety chart), and Strong) and FA (White and Jackson). Of those 2 spots, it's an absolute given that Hairston is taking one. 

 

At no point have I thought White was "nearly a lock". At most, I had him penciled in. But he has to prove to not be a liability and also beat out a number of guys. And from what's been being said lately combined with the number of guys he'll have to beat - I don't know how anyone could be so confident that he's going to be here.

 

But time will tell....

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

- I don't know how anyone could be so confident that he's going to be here.

 

But time will tell....

I hear you, but I'm confident.  

 

AJ Klein made this team repeatedly based on nothing much more than heart.  White almost certainly is closer to NFL-worthy physically than Klein. 

 

McDermott loves his veteran leaders, and he doesn't have one at corner.  

 

I'm confident, but obviously we will have to wait and see.

[Richard Noggin]

Lot of talk about 40 times in this thread. I get that it's not a useless data point, but it's also arbitrary and blunt as an evaluation and projection tool. The 10 yd splits + overall 40 time + agility times + explosion numbers + gauntlet top speed (wink) = a more holistic and comprehensive measurement. So basically, RAS lol. I've seen 4.5+ guys make defenders look like they're standing still, and we've seen 4.3 guys have difficulty getting behind anyone. It's part of the puzzle, but not so meaningful outside draft evals. 

[YattaOkasan]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I wouldn't, personally. It's June OTA's.

 

They could easily be trying him there just to test him and see where he's at. I also don't think he's been exclusively running with the 1's. A good percentage of the negative reports have come from him being owned by Elijah Moore. 

 

They could easily see him looking bad with 1's and he is no longer out there in Training Camp. There's been a number of guys throughout the years, especially when there's a positional battle, that have gotten time with the 1's at one point or another and not made the team. 

 

Again, I hope he makes it. But I wouldn't look at overwhelmingly negative reports of a player and think "well, he's running with the 1's in June so it doesn't matter how bad he reportedly looks - he's safe".

Moore has been running with the ones. Super excited for him cause his plays are in throws from Josh. I don’t think I’ve seen a single Moore from white tweet. White is QB2 at the moment which is pretty telling for Mitch and his contract.
 

I would say history favors who you’re playing with versus the plays you’re making. Zach Davidson was making all the splash plays last camp (and OTAs) while Q morris continued to be core 4 ST starter. Last preseason game and Q morris with the hat on chilling and Davidson still making splash plays. Playing with the ones on ST was better than the flash Davidson showed. Can you give me an example of someone playing with the ones and then being cut?  I gave you a relevant one that shows who with matters more than what. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

Can you give me an example of someone playing with the ones and then being cut?  I gave you a relevant one that shows who with matters more than what. 

 

Yes and it's funny because you mentioned him in your earlier post...

 

In 2023, before Terrel Bernard was formally given the job, there was an open competition for Starter at Middle Linebacker. Famously, McDermott still hadn't named a starting Middle Linebacker deep into Training Camp and openly told the press someone had to step up.

 

Everyone from Bernard to Dodson to Spector and Klein was given opportunities with the 1's as they searched for their starter. A.J. Klein ran with 1's in Training Camp and didn't make the roster.

 

It isn't uncommon anytime a position is up in the air or a Rookie is being eased in (in this case Hairston) that a veteran will run with the 1's, when the job likely won't be theirs.

 

I think you're putting too much stock in that right now. Especially since we haven't even gotten to Training Camp yet. If he were looking great, I'd say "yes, that's a good sign he'll make it". But that's not what's reportedly happening. If he continues to consistently have reports of "another bad day for Tre", he won't be running with the 1's for long and it's not far off from there to being lost in the numbers game.

 

I'm not guaranteeing he won't make it. But if things don't turn around, his running with the 1's in June isn't going to supercede his poor performance - as you suggest.

Edited 11 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[Brand J]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I've told the story about the time the NFL hilariously tried a veteran combine........those 4.6's turned into 4.9's by age 26.  

 

The track numbers usually erode quickly and Tre's legs are hamburger at this point.

As long as the player hasn’t suffered any major injuries or his body hasn’t broken down in other ways that compromise his movement, a player can retain his speed throughout his career. And I’ve heard coaches and players alike say that “strength and speed” are the last to leave you. Usain Bolt ran a 4.22 at 33 years old in sweat pants.
Terrell Owens is faster now than he was at the combine, three decades ago. Darrell Green, Don Beebe, James Lofton, etc. And it’s not just the speedsters - Doug Flutie said his speed was still the same when a reporter asked how fast he was (because he was an older player running around like a young one). If your body can avoid breaking down, you’ll still have your speed. Obviously that’s not the case with Tre.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yes and it's funny because you mentioned him in your earlier post...

 

In 2023, before Terrel Bernard was formally given the job, there was an open competition for Starter at Middle Linebacker. Famously, McDermott still hadn't named a starting Middle Linebacker deep into Training Camp and openly told the press someone had to step up.

 

Everyone from Bernard to Dodson to Spector and Klein was given opportunities with the 1's as they searched for their starter. A.J. Klein ran with 1's in Training Camp and didn't make the roster.

 

It isn't uncommon anytime a position is up in the air or a Rookie is being eased in (in this case Hairston) that a veteran will run with the 1's, when the job likely won't be theirs.

 

I think you're putting too much stock in that right now. Especially since we haven't even gotten to Training Camp yet. If he were looking great, I'd say "yes, that's a good sign he'll make it". But that's not what's reportedly happening. If he continues to consistently have reports of "another bad day for Tre", he won't be running with the 1's for long and it's not far off from there to being lost in the numbers game.

 

I'm not guaranteeing he won't make it. But if things don't turn around, his running with the 1's in June isn't going to supercede his poor performance - as you suggest.

 

Not beyond week 1 of camp he didn't. They narrowed it down to Bernard v Dodson quite quickly once camp came. The same might happen to Tre but by all reports he had a better day yesterday. And he probably has more credit in the bank than AJ Klein did. And of course they want Hairston to emerge as the starter. That is what we all hope happens.

[Doc Brown]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I have a much different view.  

 

Playing corner in McDermott's defense is all about, all about, knowing and executing the assignment. Very good physical ability, let alone exceptional ability, is a plus but not essential.  That's why Levi Wallace could start in Buffalo, and why a player like Dane Jackson can survive on this roster.  When he gets on the field, McDermott knows that Jackson will execute every play as well as he possibly can, play after play.  

 

White thrived in Buffalo because he understood and execute the defense flawlessly, and he had first-round physical ability.  If he's lost a step, he's Levi Wallace, and McDermott will be happy to him on the field, because he will help anchor the defensive backfield. I don't think he's taking a spot from either Hairston or Benford, but I think he's nearly a lock for the final 53. He's almost certainly taking Jackson's spot. 

The problem is going back to the Levi Wallace example is against elite QB's they picked on him.  We also had two excellent safeties in Poyer and Hyde that could help cover up his deficiencies. We don't have that anymore as we were 24th in pass defense last year.  We need better play out of our CB#2 this year than what Douglas gave us the second half of last year.  I'm not sure White or Jackson are capable of that.  That's why it's critical that Hairston has a great training camp and earns the starting job opposite Benford imo because we still might have below average safety play.