Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Man. After 8 years, the pass rush is never good enough to win a Superbowl and the receiving options aren't good enough to win a Superbowl. Brutal.

This is correct. It hasn’t been this or that. It has been this AND that. Maybe correcting one of the two will be enough to get a Super Bowl? Maybe it won’t. Either way, the pass rush hasn’t been good enough NOR have the WRs been good enough. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

The other people who got to flash receipts are those that said we didn’t have enough pass rush and said that our defense would inevitably lead to our downfall if we didn’t win a SB.  
 

WR wasn’t the main reason we didn’t win a Super Bowl.  

 

 

The funny thing is that Oliver and Phillips provided the pass rush to give the offense the ball back after the offense had seemingly sealed their defeat by turning the ball over on downs...........but for the second straight year the offense had the ball with a chance to finish off the Chiefs and the passing game failed miserably in the clutch.  

 

But I think it's lost on Bills fans who aren't also fans of championship organizations in other sports that the "literal" reason is more important than the perceived "main" reason.  

 

It's what we ACTUALLY know LITERALLY caused their defeat.  

 

Norwood missing that kick is more important than the perception that Levy and his staff were over matched or that the run defense wasn't stout enough etc..

 

Teams don't only win SB's because they have every area buttoned up.  

 

Like I mentioned earlier,  the average offensive and defensive rank of SB winners in the past decade or so is around 9th in both cases.

 

The Bills have far exceeded any rank hurdle they needed to having scored the most points and allowed the fewest in the last 5 seasons. 

 

What you are defined by is what you did that caused you to win or lose with the playoff/championship game on the line.

 

The NFL teams of this 21st century are the Patriots and Chiefs and they aren't defined by dominant personnel........they are defined by what they did in the clutch.    

[Alphadawg7]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You should worry about the receipts you leave around first.

 

Remember when you started that thread guaranteeing the Bills would reach the AFCCG late in the 2023 season?   

 

Or when you started your Shakir thread and included things like extrapolating his 2023 15.7 yards per catch number as if there were any chance he was going to replicate that from the slot with a greater target share in 2024.    He predictably dropped to just 10.8 yards per catch.    

 

I know that when pressed by yours truly, you put in the fine print later that a mere 900 yard season would justify your hyperbole about how great he was going to be but that's just how you roll.    

 

Aim high, shoot low and claim a bullseye.

 

Except this isn't what I exactly said now is it (and you know that).  Its pretty funny you want to call receipts about 2 threads I was pretty spot on in just about everything I said, and by most peoples accounts.  Ive been wrong on things, as has everyone here, just funny you pick 2 things where if you read the threads I was pretty spot on.

 

It’s cute though that you are playing your usual games and twisting context to paint a different narratives which is your calling card.  You on the other hand did spend plenty of time arguing Shakir can't catch and a lot of other nonsense your selective memory likes to gloss over.

 

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Last offseason in the "quietly better" thread those of us who expressed concern about the quality of the WR corps were near universal in expecting the Bills offense to be good in 2023.    

 

As people like @Kirby Jackson and myself said numerous times that they should still be a top 5 offense regardless.   Because Josh Allen is great and they could always generate points in the regular season if they are willing to let the still prime athletic age Allen run 100+ times per year.    It was proven by the results of 2023 after Brady took over.

 

The question is do they have the playmakers in the passing game to win big road games and playoff games?

 

Just like the issue wasn't whether the Bills Leslie Frazier top ranked and second ranked 2020-2021 defense's were good enough in the regular season.

 

The question was did they have enough playmakers(specifically pass rushers) to win in the postseason.

 

The people who got to flash the receipts last year were those of us who knew the WR corps wasn't going to be good enough against top competition and that Beane would be forced to make a trade to try to remedy it.   

 

 

 

Shocker that again this is not exactly what you were really saying now is it.  This is what you want people to believe you were saying when in reality you were slamming the offense, defending Dorsey after he was fired, even arguing Dorsey over Brady despite the results.  

 

And while there were people who thought some of these things here, most were negative or all doom and gloom about the offense going into last season.  And as I said then, before a down of football was even played, that the predictable "spin" once the offense proved to be great still was going to be the classic "Its all Allen" or even give all the credit to Brady...which is verbatim what happened.

 

However, myself and many others had said all offseason we were still going to be a top 5 offense, had potential to be the best offense of Allens career, addition by subtraction, and might be Allens best season and chance at MVP before a down of  football was even played. 

 

But keep on doing what you do where you blur reality and truths to desperately try to never be wrong when a LOT of what you said the past 2 years are things you certainly don't want "receipts" called on.  

 

But you do you boo 

Edited yesterday at 03:16 PM by Alphadawg7

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The funny thing is that Oliver and Phillips provided the pass rush to give the offense the ball back after the offense had seemingly sealed their defeat by turning the ball over on downs...........but for the second straight year the offense had the ball with a chance to finish off the Chiefs and the passing game failed miserably in the clutch.  

 

But I think it's lost on Bills fans who aren't also fans of championship organizations in other sports that the "literal" reason is more important than the perceived "main" reason.  

 

It's what we ACTUALLY know LITERALLY caused their defeat.  

 

Norwood missing that kick is more important than the perception that Levy and his staff were over matched or that the run defense wasn't stout enough etc..

 

Teams don't only win SB's because they have every area buttoned up.  

 

Like I mentioned earlier,  the average offensive and defensive rank of SB winners in the past decade or so is around 9th in both cases.

 

The Bills have far exceeded any rank hurdle they needed to having scored the most points and allowed the fewest in the last 5 seasons. 

 

What you are defined by is what you did that caused you to win or lose with the playoff/championship game on the line.

 

The NFL teams of this 21st century are the Patriots and Chiefs and they aren't defined by dominant personnel........they are defined by what they did in the clutch.    

 

It's funny because you can "lawyer" things in so many ways but that sack on Mahomes to force a field goal was about as clutch a play you could get by Phillips. I actually love the idea of Phillips being "on retainer" for a late season vet PS spot because he showed he's still gonna pop in a few "splash" plays over the course of 2-3 games before getting hurt likely doing something stupid haha. If you can get him to come in and have 1-2 splash plays while being a solid back end rotation DT late in season when a fresh body might be needed I think that's a good idea. 

 

[BillsVet]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is correct. It hasn’t been this or that. It has been this AND that. Maybe correcting one of the two will be enough to get a Super Bowl? Maybe it won’t. Either way, the pass rush hasn’t been good enough NOR have the WRs been good enough. 

 

We're back to believing that known entities at both positions will return to form or dramatically improve performance.  At DE, that's Bosa remaining healthy, Rousseau becoming consistent, and Oliver producing again.  The unknown entities - Jackson and the young DT's perhaps could give them something, but it's less likely.  Maybe the scheme gets adjusted and paired with improvements they are finding QBs more often.  

 

The WR's with Palmer, Samuel, and Moore are what they are at this point in their career.  Shakir is still somewhat young, albeit a slot receiver.  Coleman...maybe he makes a huge leap, but I wouldn't expect it.  

 

All in all...it's odd to see how they've approached the key positions.  Nailed the QB, have a reliable LT, have continued to develop and draft CBs, but DE and WR have been unremarkable for different reasons.  I would expect a defensive minded HC to understand what a good pass-rusher looks like...and neither he nor the GM have found them.  And then there's the stubbornness both reflect about how WRs aren't that important to use premium assets on finding them.   

[Kirby Jackson]

20 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

We're back to believing that known entities at both positions will return to form or dramatically improve performance.  At DE, that's Bosa remaining healthy, Rousseau becoming consistent, and Oliver producing again.  The unknown entities - Jackson and the young DT's perhaps could give them something, but it's less likely.  Maybe the scheme gets adjusted and paired with improvements they are finding QBs more often.  

 

The WR's with Palmer, Samuel, and Moore are what they are at this point in their career.  Shakir is still somewhat young, albeit a slot receiver.  Coleman...maybe he makes a huge leap, but I wouldn't expect it.  

 

All in all...it's odd to see how they've approached the key positions.  Nailed the QB, have a reliable LT, have continued to develop and draft CBs, but DE and WR have been unremarkable for different reasons.  I would expect a defensive minded HC to understand what a good pass-rusher looks like...and neither he nor the GM have found them.  And then there's the stubbornness both reflect about how WRs aren't that important to use premium assets on finding them.   

Such a good post!! Maybe it won’t matter but they are trying to zig while others zag. It hasn’t worked to this point. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The funny thing is that Oliver and Phillips provided the pass rush to give the offense the ball back after the offense had seemingly sealed their defeat by turning the ball over on downs...........but for the second straight year the offense had the ball with a chance to finish off the Chiefs and the passing game failed miserably in the clutch.  

 

But I think it's lost on Bills fans who aren't also fans of championship organizations in other sports that the "literal" reason is more important than the perceived "main" reason.  

 

It's what we ACTUALLY know LITERALLY caused their defeat.  

 

Norwood missing that kick is more important than the perception that Levy and his staff were over matched or that the run defense wasn't stout enough etc..

 

Teams don't only win SB's because they have every area buttoned up.  

 

Like I mentioned earlier,  the average offensive and defensive rank of SB winners in the past decade or so is around 9th in both cases.

 

The Bills have far exceeded any rank hurdle they needed to having scored the most points and allowed the fewest in the last 5 seasons. 

 

What you are defined by is what you did that caused you to win or lose with the playoff/championship game on the line.

 

The NFL teams of this 21st century are the Patriots and Chiefs and they aren't defined by dominant personnel........they are defined by what they did in the clutch.    

Correct- while giving up a season high in points to their opponents with time still remaining in the game, we made a couple nice defensive plays….for the first time in 5 years.  Poyers save on the goal line the previous year was clutch too- but more of a blunder on Hardman imo.  In the same game- jones made the most clutch play of the game vs Dawkins.  
 

I agree- making plays in the clutch is extremely important- maybe the most important aspect of winning football games….but it’s not the only aspect that matters.  When we allow teams to score an average of 33 or so ppg in season ending losses, I think it’s fair to pinpoint that as a major reason why we haven’t been to a SB. Not the only reason. Similar to making clutch plays….. as was the crux of my post.  It’s not just one thing.   But do you.  

[BillsShredder83]

On 6/3/2025 at 9:24 PM, Victory Formation said:

I never liked the pick but I am going to give him a fair shake. I think that the best case scenario is Keon will be a low end #1 or a high end #2 but in all likelihood I think he’ll be an average #2.

I think this could hinge on Brady as much as it does Keon. Find a way to get him the ball a few times a game, in the short-intermediate with a full head of steam and he has a killer year.  every slant he caught like this last year looked like it had house call potential, between his physicality and long-speed.  sounds like the physicality should notch up this year too

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Bengals

 

Oops!!!  I knew it was one of those Ohio teams!

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

Correct- while giving up a season high in points to their opponents with time still remaining in the game, we made a couple nice defensive plays….for the first time in 5 years.  Poyers save on the goal line the previous year was clutch too- but more of a blunder on Hardman imo.  In the same game- jones made the most clutch play of the game vs Dawkins.  
 

I agree- making plays in the clutch is extremely important- maybe the most important aspect of winning football games….but it’s not the only aspect that matters.  When we allow teams to score an average of 33 or so ppg in season ending losses, I think it’s fair to pinpoint that as a major reason why we haven’t been to a SB. Not the only reason. Similar to making clutch plays….. as was the crux of my post.  It’s not just one thing.   But do you.  

 

So the defense coming up big at the end last January is inconsequential because you perceive it as the only time?

 

How many times has the Bills offense made big plays late in any of what were their elimination games in the Allen era?

 

Once. 

 

In 6 defeats.

 

And the only 2 games they've won in the divisional round against Baltimore were won by the defense making huge plays.

 

In those two divisional WINS Josh Allen threw for a combined 333 yards with 1 touchdown pass in 8 quarters of football.  

 

Brutal.   The equivalent of getting 40 hung on you defensively.   

 

In 4 home divisional round games they've scored a pathetic total of 71 offensive points.  

 

The people who buy this bullsh!t that the offense has been good enough and the defense has let them down have the 13 second performance on their brain and nothing else matters.

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[oldmanfan]

Will I be allowed to celebrate when Coleman scores his first TD this year?

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So the defense coming up big at the end last January is inconsequential because you perceive it as the only time?

 

How many times has the Bills offense made big plays late in any of what were their elimination games in the Allen era?

 

Once. 

 

In 6 defeats.

 

And the only 2 games they've won in the divisional round against Baltimore were won by the defense making huge plays.

 

In those two divisional WINS Josh Allen threw for a combined 333 yards with 1 touchdown pass in 8 quarters of football.  

 

Brutal.   The equivalent of getting 40 hung on you defensively.   

 

In 4 home divisional round games they've scored a pathetic total of 71 offensive points.  

 

The people who buy this bullsh!t that the offense has been good enough and the defense has let them down have the 13 second performance on their brain and nothing else matters.

 

 

No- it’s not.  That’s not what I said as you continue to move the goalposts to fit whatever you’re trying to prove.

 

how many times has the defense played well in in season ending losses since we’ve been contenders?   Zero.  If the defense hadn’t put up absolute stinkers in those games, clutch plays by the offense may not even have to have been made as games are already over.  
 

How many points have we given up in season ending defeats?  The answer is more points than we’ve ever averaged-  but the O is supposed to outscore that number playing vs an all time DC coaching a very good D…. Got it

 

Regarding your last statement-  I never said the offense was good enough.  If you had read any of what I had said you’d realize that I said there is blame placed on the offense and the defense….   Not JUST the offense.  But move the goalposts and act like I’m trying to sell that it’s all on the offense.  Just blatantly making stuff up.

 

I’ve always said there are multiple reasons why we haven’t made a Super Bowl.  Playing terrible defense and allowing teams to put up 33ppg in season ending losses is the biggest reason- not the only reason

Edited 20 hours ago by NewEra

[MasterStrategist]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

So the defense coming up big at the end last January is inconsequential because you perceive it as the only time?

 

How many times has the Bills offense made big plays late in any of what were their elimination games in the Allen era?

 

Once. 

 

In 6 defeats.

 

And the only 2 games they've won in the divisional round against Baltimore were won by the defense making huge plays.

 

In those two divisional WINS Josh Allen threw for a combined 333 yards with 1 touchdown pass in 8 quarters of football.  

 

Brutal.   The equivalent of getting 40 hung on you defensively.   

 

In 4 home divisional round games they've scored a pathetic total of 71 offensive points.  

 

The people who buy this bullsh!t that the offense has been good enough and the defense has let them down have the 13 second performance on their brain and nothing else matters.

 

 

Disagree with this completely, what youre trying to say about offense.

 

But agree with your prior post about "making clutch" plays is key.

 

2022: defense was a sieve.  Offense played horrible, many attribute to Josh night before

 

2023: defense severely undermanned, again a sieve.  Bass chokes on a makeable FG- Josh got greedy and offense choked away a chance at the end

 

2024: defense was garbage after Benford went down, for 1st half.  Defense did enough to win 2nd half, but offense blew multiple chances.

 

If anything, LY was the only season the offense didnt play up to snuff when it would have mattered.  The defense has been downright awful the past 3 playoff losses- when we need to consistently put up 30+ to win, thats a DEFENSE issue.

 

But to your recent point about "clutch plays".  We saw a couple this past Chiefs game--- Jordan Phillips of all people with a crucial sack, and James Cook with an unbelievable effort to score on 4th and goal, or we likely wouldve been trailing by alot more.   Those would've been enough, but defense and offense were equally to blame IMO for 2024 loss- slow starts by both units.

 

Josh made more mistakes in that KC loss, than he did prior 4 games combined.  We shouldn't need him to be superman every game though --- how many bad reads/throws did he miss?  We had guys open/checkdowns there- Samuel on crossing routes for big gains, but Brady also went to the QB sneak well way too much after KC showed a knack of stopping it. 

 

Point being, both sides played bad at times- I'd say offense more worse than their norm.  But we cant have our defense give up 30+ to a team that hasn't put up nearly that level of production in recent games.  Just shows what the Eagles, with good talent, could actually do defensively.  Its called we had a MAJOR talent deficiency on that side of the ball- Rasul, Elam, Hamlin - that was a secondary that played ALOT of snaps and we expect to win with them? Not to mention a DL, whose best 2nd best pass rusher was Von Miller and needed to count on the likes of Jordan Phillips for clutch plays 

[FireChans]

12 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Disagree with this completely, what youre trying to say about offense.

 

But agree with your prior post about "making clutch" plays is key.

 

2022: defense was a sieve.  Offense played horrible, many attribute to Josh night before

 

2023: defense severely undermanned, again a sieve.  Bass chokes on a makeable FG- Josh got greedy and offense choked away a chance at the end

 

2024: defense was garbage after Benford went down, for 1st half.  Defense did enough to win 2nd half, but offense blew multiple chances.

 

If anything, LY was the only season the offense didnt play up to snuff when it would have mattered.  The defense has been downright awful the past 3 playoff losses- when we need to consistently put up 30+ to win, thats a DEFENSE issue.

 

But to your recent point about "clutch plays".  We saw a couple this past Chiefs game--- Jordan Phillips of all people with a crucial sack, and James Cook with an unbelievable effort to score on 4th and goal, or we likely wouldve been trailing by alot more.   Those would've been enough, but defense and offense were equally to blame IMO for 2024 loss- slow starts by both units.

 

Josh made more mistakes in that KC loss, than he did prior 4 games combined.  We shouldn't need him to be superman every game though --- how many bad reads/throws did he miss?  We had guys open/checkdowns there- Samuel on crossing routes for big gains, but Brady also went to the QB sneak well way too much after KC showed a knack of stopping it. 

 

Point being, both sides played bad at times- I'd say offense more worse than their norm.  But we cant have our defense give up 30+ to a team that hasn't put up nearly that level of production in recent games.  Just shows what the Eagles, with good talent, could actually do defensively.  Its called we had a MAJOR talent deficiency on that side of the ball- Rasul, Elam, Hamlin - that was a secondary that played ALOT of snaps and we expect to win with them? Not to mention a DL, whose best 2nd best pass rusher was Von Miller and needed to count on the likes of Jordan Phillips for clutch plays 

The thing about "clutch" plays, is that they all benefit from the result.

 

For example:

 

If Bass connects on the FG in 2023 or the Bills score a TD and stifle the Chiefs, not only is the offense clutch for their contribution, but the defense is clutch for saving the game with the Poyer punch out. 

 

If Josh scores the go-ahead TD last year, the Bills defense looks clutch for that massive stop late to give the offense the ball back with a chance to win it.

 

So, when you look at it from that perspective, those are two "clutch" defensive moments that ended up not being clutch because the offense didn't hold up on their end. 

 

Now of course, you play this game with 13 seconds and the opposite is true. The offense looked clutch, and the defense failed them, twice.

 

Unfortunately, when you have knocked on the door as much as we have, there are going to be a million things we can point to.  Reid having McD's number, the offense failing in clutch time, the defense failing in clutch time, the whole team not showing up to play for the 2020 AFCCG or the 2022 Bengals loss. 

 

But history is written by the victors. If the defense holds on in 2021, or the offense scores go-ahead points in 2023 and 2024 and the Bills may be the clutch "never say die" dynasty team of the era. 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Disagree with this completely, what youre trying to say about offense.

 

But agree with your prior post about "making clutch" plays is key.

 

2022: defense was a sieve.  Offense played horrible, many attribute to Josh night before

 

2023: defense severely undermanned, again a sieve.  Bass chokes on a makeable FG- Josh got greedy and offense choked away a chance at the end

 

2024: defense was garbage after Benford went down, for 1st half.  Defense did enough to win 2nd half, but offense blew multiple chances.

 

If anything, LY was the only season the offense didnt play up to snuff when it would have mattered.  The defense has been downright awful the past 3 playoff losses- when we need to consistently put up 30+ to win, thats a DEFENSE issue.

 

But to your recent point about "clutch plays".  We saw a couple this past Chiefs game--- Jordan Phillips of all people with a crucial sack, and James Cook with an unbelievable effort to score on 4th and goal, or we likely wouldve been trailing by alot more.   Those would've been enough, but defense and offense were equally to blame IMO for 2024 loss- slow starts by both units.

 

Josh made more mistakes in that KC loss, than he did prior 4 games combined.  We shouldn't need him to be superman every game though --- how many bad reads/throws did he miss?  We had guys open/checkdowns there- Samuel on crossing routes for big gains, but Brady also went to the QB sneak well way too much after KC showed a knack of stopping it. 

 

Point being, both sides played bad at times- I'd say offense more worse than their norm.  But we cant have our defense give up 30+ to a team that hasn't put up nearly that level of production in recent games.  Just shows what the Eagles, with good talent, could actually do defensively.  Its called we had a MAJOR talent deficiency on that side of the ball- Rasul, Elam, Hamlin - that was a secondary that played ALOT of snaps and we expect to win with them? Not to mention a DL, whose best 2nd best pass rusher was Von Miller and needed to count on the likes of Jordan Phillips for clutch plays 

 

Your "feels" approach to the math is not congruent with the facts.

 

In 7 divisional round and championship games the Josh Allen Bills offense has averaged only 22.85 points scored.

 

So less than 23 points per game is supposed to beat Mahomes, Jackson and Burrow how often exactly?   

 

In that same span the defense has allowed 27.71 points per game.   And also chipped in 7 points with the biggest postseason play in Bills history.....the 99 yard Taron Johnson pick six.   

 

So the offense scores about 6 less per game than they do in the regular season from 2020-2025 and the defense allows about 8 more than they normally do(7 net if you factor in their scoring).

 

The reality is BOTH sides underperform by similar degrees in these huge games.  

 

BOTH.

 

And one of those sides has the only great player the Bills have on it.

 

So he either sucks when the chips are down or the talent around him isn't right.

 

I fall on the "talent around him" has failed him side.  

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[Einstein]

On 6/5/2025 at 10:31 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

but for the second straight year the offense had the ball with a chance to finish off the Chiefs and the passing game failed miserably in the clutch.  

Last year (2023) was the o-line. It's a touchdown if Dawkins wasn't dog walked into Allen has he was throwing to a wide open Shakir in the endzone. We were about to take the lead but Dawkins got manhandled.

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

The reality is BOTH sides underperform by similar degrees in these huge games.  

 

BOTH.

 

 

 

 

 

 

is he arguing against that notion?  I don’t think anyone in this conversation is.

 

the still shots of the Kincaid drop tell half the story.  He should have made a tough catch-  He was also ridiculously wide open and may have scored- but Josh was fooled by Spags (best playoff DC ever in my book) and wasn’t able to make a better throw because of it.  So was that Kincaid failing him or was the Allen failing Kincaid?  A bit of blame to both sides imo.  Unlike dawkins getting steamrolled by Jones.  I like Diggs dropping the dime.  Unlike the defense and 13.  Josh should carry SOME blame on the Kincaid drop- 

[Buffalo716]

32 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Last year (2023) was the o-line. It's a touchdown if Dawkins wasn't dog walked into Allen has he was throwing to a wide open Shakir in the endzone. We were about to take the lead but Dawkins got manhandled.

Dion Dawkins is one of the best tackles in the world... And our offensive line is now one of the best 

 

 you can take plays from Joe Thomas where he looks bad

 

Calling out Dion is crazy because he is technique wise probably the best left tackle in the world and a top five left tackle.. you can't name five guys with more consistency over the last 6 years and that's what offensive line is about.. consistency

 

His technique is world class.. he has techniques that you don't see other linemen using

Edited 3 hours ago by Buffalo716

[billsrul120]

54 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Your "feels" approach to the math is not congruent with the facts.

 

In 7 divisional round and championship games the Josh Allen Bills offense has averaged only 22.85 points scored.

 

So less than 23 points per game is supposed to beat Mahomes, Jackson and Burrow how often exactly?   

 

In that same span the defense has allowed 27.71 points per game.   And also chipped in 7 points with the biggest postseason play in Bills history.....the 99 yard Taron Johnson pick six.   

 

So the offense scores about 6 less per game than they do in the regular season from 2020-2025 and the defense allows about 8 more than they normally do(7 net if you factor in their scoring).

 

The reality is BOTH sides underperform by similar degrees in these huge games.  

 

BOTH.

 

And one of those sides has the only great player the Bills have on it.

 

So he either sucks when the chips are down or the talent around him isn't right.

 

I fall on the "talent around him" has failed him side.  

 

 

 

 

Idk why you include both divisional games and afc championships but not wild card games if you are doing an analysis on playoff performance as a whole.  However if you look at playoff games that got the Bills eliminated since Josh's rise to a top level player in 2020:

 

Offense Average: 24.6 ppg (this includes the 10 against the Bengals - if removed the average is 28.25 ppg)

Defense Average: 33.2 ppg (this includes 42 given up to the Chiefs in the 13 seconds game - if removed it's 31 ppg)

 

Essentially the Bills offense has performed at or near regular season expectations in these elimination games 5/6 times with the 10 point Bengal game looking like an outlier.  The Bills Defense has never allowed less than 27 in an elimination game and 3 times over 30 points (one over 40).

 

It's pretty clear to me that the Bills defense is by far a bigger issue in them getting eliminated than the offense and these numbers bear that out. 

[DapperCam]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

is he arguing against that notion?  I don’t think anyone in this conversation is.

I would absolutely argue against that notion. The offense scored the most point given up by the Chiefs in Arrowhead in 2 seasons, and the defense allowed the most points the Chiefs had scored all season. The Chiefs defense was top 5, the Chiefs offense was middle of the pack.

 

You can’t boil a 60 minute game down to a single crucial moment. All of the drives matter, and the offense performed extremely well in terms of points scored, and the defense played extremely poorly in terms of points allowed.