The Worthy Trade Keeps Looking Worse and Worse

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

18 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

And yet there are posters on this forum who will defend Beane trading picks to KC.

 

I don’t care what we get back! There should be a firm WE DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH KANSAS CITY rule in our front office.

Agreed. it is the weirdest thing to deal with your rival. And now that they have fleeced us multiple Times, maybe we should stop.

[Cray51]

Worthy looked good... against a defense that Coleman scored on and had 112 yards...

 

Not concerns with the Worthy/Coleman deal.  

[chef4131]

The sad part about the trade is Worthy is exactly the player that this team needs and we did not get fair value 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Not sure how often you bet but this is a typical spread. JAX is a good team. If KC had lost yesterday they would’ve been a slight dog in this spot. 

Unless I’m getting my threads confused the post I was replying to was massively dooming about the chiefs. It is a typical spread yes that is kinda my point lol. The betting world does not believe the chiefs are some unstoppable juggernaut based on one game against an absolutely terrible defense. Jags are fine they are on the very low end of good if anything.   

 

I wish I bet more I coulda retired after yesterday lol chiefs over ravens is free money I was saying it all week 

[K-9]

Will this insufferable, useless thread ever die? 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Chiefs just played against the worst defense in the NFL. Of course, offense should get their stats.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 minutes ago, chef4131 said:

The sad part about the trade is Worthy is exactly the player that this team needs and we did not get fair value 

Bills fans really take running the ball for granted it’s straight up bizarre.  You need players like Coleman to run the ball effectively and it’s such a good complement to trying to lighten the box and sit in soft pass coverage against Josh.  Chiefs fans are all over the internet saying Josh has it easy because the bills can run the football and the chiefs can’t lol

Just for reference not trying to say this proves Coleman is better or vice versa but I feel like the more negative bills fans really don’t even realize this…here are the career receiving stats of those two guys:

 

Worthy:  19 games played 721 yards 6 tds 10.8 avg

Coleman: 17 games played 759 yds 5 tds 16.5 avg

 

Coleman has honestly been the bigger home run hitter so far it’s kinda ironic haha. Both guys are pretty up and down but bills fans only pay attention to worthy when he’s good it seems.  
 

I think Coleman has been quite a bit better than he gets credit for and worthy has been overrated a bit due to chiefs/mahomes media bias but he’s def good.  Both teams got the guy they wanted and the bills got a free third round pick for doing so 

Edited Monday at 03:03 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I’m not going to step foot into this ongoing debate, but I will say that Worthy brings an element to an offense that we just do not value for some reason. I don’t care about individual stats but I do feel that a downfield threat helps open things up for the offense. Now seemingly our offense doesn’t have an issue with scoring points, but I still won’t negate the value of a field stretcher.

[appoo]

I’d rather have Coleman 

[Captain Hindsight]

30 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Agreed. it is the weirdest thing to deal with your rival. And now that they have fleeced us multiple Times, maybe we should stop.

I get why people feel this way but it’s a silly way to run a business. We work with firms all the time that are our “competitors”.  It can be mutually beneficial if done right. 
 

You make the best deal for your team, and forget the rest 

27 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Will this insufferable, useless thread ever die? 

Check back next week!

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 minute ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I get why people feel this way but it’s a silly way to run a business. We work with firms all the time that are our “competitors”.  It can be mutually beneficial if done right. 
 

You make the best deal for your team, and forget the rest 

Yes, the "no trades with your rivals" thing is the amateur approach. Make the best deals you can where you can get them. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I’m not going to step foot into this ongoing debate, but I will say that Worthy brings an element to an offense that we just do not value for some reason. I don’t care about individual stats but I do feel that a downfield threat helps open things up for the offense. Now seemingly our offense doesn’t have an issue with scoring points, but I still won’t negate the value of a field stretcher.

Coleman is such an unappreciated type of player it makes me a little bit sad lol I think a wr that’s a tank and a beast in run blocking probably brings you more value as a team that’s seeing a lot of soft coverage on passing downs with some occasional cover 0 sprinkled in.

 

I mean I get the constant fear of the chiefs based on past results and this could absolutely be proven wrong 😂 but I think the bills leaning into running the football was the right direction.  Teams can play over the top from light boxes against the chiefs and still bottle up the run and get pressure easily which kinda fits well with what you’d want to do to take away worthy anyway.  
 

Obviously they deserve the benefit of the doubt based on past results but I really think the chiefs need some Coleman type guys tbh 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

10 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I get why people feel this way but it’s a silly way to run a business. We work with firms all the time that are our “competitors”.  It can be mutually beneficial if done right. 
 

 

I am not sure the business world is a perfect analogy— maybe depends on your business? 
 

maybe a good business analogy is two direct competitors (bills and chiefs) in a market of like 3 or 4 (AFC title contenders)? Seems like competitors in a highly concentrated market like that would not directly deal with each other. In fact, probably a ton of non-competes to prevent the flow of people back and forth between the organizations.

[soflabillsfan1]

30 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Bills fans really take running the ball for granted it’s straight up bizarre.  You need players like Coleman to run the ball effectively and it’s such a good complement to trying to lighten the box and sit in soft pass coverage against Josh.  Chiefs fans are all over the internet saying Josh has it easy because the bills can run the football and the chiefs can’t lol

Just for reference not trying to say this proves Coleman is better or vice versa but I feel like the more negative bills fans really don’t even realize this…here are the career receiving stats of those two guys:

 

Worthy:  19 games played 721 yards 6 tds 10.8 avg

Coleman: 17 games played 759 yds 5 tds 16.5 avg

 

Coleman has honestly been the bigger home run hitter so far it’s kinda ironic haha. Both guys are pretty up and down but bills fans only pay attention to worthy when he’s good it seems.  
 

I think Coleman has been quite a bit better than he gets credit for and worthy has been overrated a bit due to chiefs/mahomes media bias but he’s def good.  Both teams got the guy they wanted and the bills got a free third round pick for doing so 

Those stats aren't even correct and leave out rushing.  Worthy had 19rec for 287 yds and 3 Tds in the playoffs.  Keon had 3 recs for 22 yds and 0 Tds

Edited Monday at 03:32 PM by soflabillsfan1

[The Frankish Reich]

9 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Coleman is such an unappreciated type of player it makes me a little bit sad lol I think a wr that’s a tank and a beast in run blocking probably brings you more value as a team that’s seeing a lot of soft coverage on passing downs with some occasional cover 0 sprinkled in.

 

I mean I get the constant fear of the chiefs based on past results and this could absolutely be proven wrong 😂 but I think the bills leaning into running the football was the right direction.  Teams can play over the top from light boxes against the chiefs and still bottle up the run and get pressure easily which kinda fits well with what you’d want to do to take away worthy anyway.  
 

Obviously they deserve the benefit of the doubt based on past results but I really think the chiefs need some Coleman type guys tbh 

Good point.

My main objection to the Coleman over Worthy draft was the idea that Worthy's slight frame made him a higher injury risk. I just don't know of any hard data supporting that. 

I spent way too much time in the early 2000s arguing about/analyzing baseball stats. The old "wisdom" was that power pitchers were a bigger serious injury risk than finesse pitchers. The data showed the opposite. Just because it seems to make sense doesn't mean that it's true.

Edited Monday at 03:32 PM by The Frankish Reich

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I get why people feel this way but it’s a silly way to run a business. 

 

No, it’s not silly. You never hand your rival the exact asset they want. Your comparison to business is not applicable. This isn’t the paper industry where there’s an endless supply of vendors, and it isn’t tech where you can source talent and resources worldwide.

 

The NFL is a closed league with a VERY limited number of assets. Every elite player is scarce, and every opportunity matters. You don’t give that advantage away to your direct rival.

 

And I’ll take it a step further: I will bet you any dollar amount you want, that Beane will never trade with the Chiefs ever again during his Bills tenure. I truly believe he learned his lesson. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The chiefs definitely have a “type” at wide receiver. Short speed bugs that can play inside and out: Tyreek, Hardeman, Worthy, Brown, Rice, Thornton. They are the same build and style. (The one outlier is JuJu).  Their RBs are even sort of similar, like that rookie they have now (Smith).

 

I give credit to the chiefs, as they know how to use these guys. Most of these receivers would be pretty average on other teams. 

 

Worthy's issue in the NFL was always going to be health. He's an inch taller and about 8 pounds lighter than Zay Flowers who many questioned as being too skinny to hold up in the NFL. Worthy had tremendous speed and good skills as he had multiple years of high end college production. I never questioned if he was going to be a good player or not. I questioned if he could stay healthy and be an every down player. 

 

He's already gotten banged up this year and missed 3 games effectively. I think as good as he is and can be if he can't stay healthy he's a glass cannon. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

Those stats aren't even correct and leave out rushing.

Rushing is a bit of an interesting can of worms…wasn’t sure how to quantify it which is why I labeled it as receiving stats in my post.   I think Coleman is bringing substantially more to the running game on a play to play basis than worthy is but we’d need a metric for yards gained on Coleman blocks. 

 

Worthy’s rushing yardage is pretty much negligible over 19 games but he does have 3tds to be fair.
 

not sure what’s incorrect about the stats though? Comparing regular season stats is pretty much the standard way of doing it and worthy’s big superbowl was all garbage time anyway. 
 

they’re very different players and hard to compare/I wouldn’t say one is better which I definitely mentioned in my post lol. But I was just pointing out how Coleman has been undervalued statistically by fans

 

its just so odd to me that were losing it over worthy’s first game this year against a decimated ravens defense when Coleman had an even better game against an exponentially more talented ravens defense 😂 make it make sense 

Edited Monday at 03:48 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Worthy's issue in the NFL was always going to be health. He's an inch taller and about 8 pounds lighter than Zay Flowers who many questioned as being too skinny to hold up in the NFL. Worthy had tremendous speed and good skills as he had multiple years of high end college production. I never questioned if he was going to be a good player or not. I questioned if he could stay healthy and be an every down player. 

 

He's already gotten banged up this year and missed 3 games effectively. I think as good as he is and can be if he can't stay healthy he's a glass cannon. 

Yeah, I wouldn't really call that high end college production. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't really standout in any way. 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/xavier-worthy-1.html

[Draconator]

Trade for Diggs