Coleman Route Speeds

[Mat68]

44 minutes ago, sven233 said:

It's not the lack of speed in the 40 that is necessarily concerning.  Would you like to see it at least a tenth faster? Yes.  What is concerning, though, is the tape.  Speed aside, the biggest problem he had in college is that he doesn't get consistent separation.  It's great that the next gen stats show that play speed isn't an issue.  It is a relief in a lot of ways.  But, that still doesn't change the game tape where even the receptions he does make, come with a CB all over him.  So, maybe the coaches see something that they can help him with in terms of release, route running, etc. that he wasn't doing in college that will use that actual play speed to his advantage.  If they do, and he works at it and becomes successful with what they are teaching, many of the other skills in a WR are there for sure.  But, unless the coaching staff has an idea of how to fix his separation issues, he is going to have to find ways to win against better competition in the NFL.

 

My guess is that I think they believe they have a plan for how to incorporate him into this offense and put him in advantageous situations.  I think the offense might look dramatically different than it has the last several years.  Brady has an entire off season to implement his full offense instead of just piecing things in here and there as the weeks went by last year.  I don't know......I am just searching for reasons to believe Coleman will make a major difference for us this year and it's tough when all I have to go by is his college tape and I see him struggling to get open.  But, like I've said all along, even though I am critical of him in a lot of ways, the things he does well, he does EXTREMELY well.  I am going to put my trust into the coaching staff to help him win with scheme here and there and play to his strengths. 

You can say the same thing about Harrison jr and Udunze.  Neither ran past guys.  I think Coleman has the traits to develop his route running.  That happens he can have a very good career.  His route running is behind both as it sits.  Coleman was still playing basketball as recent as 2021-2022 basketball season. That lends to why his technique is below that of the top guys in the class.   

[Southern_Bills]

Eh, at this point it's all pointless. He's a Buffalo Bill, the people in charge said he's the guy. 

 

We will find out for sure when the games start, anything else is just speculation. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

56 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So let me see...you're frustrated that people are not wallowing in the negative viewpoint end of the pool where you swim 365 days a year on everything Bills related?  Maybe...just maybe...if you were not the one who has like a 100% success right of putting a negative emoticons on every post here that has any positivity to it what so ever and only ever liking ones that support a negative view point others might actually discuss more rationally your view points.  

 

Bottom line is pretty simple with Coleman...if you line him up with a faster corner and just say go deep in a straight line, he isn't going to run past him.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have the speed to still be a deep ball guy, the speed to get open, the speed to be a great WR1 in the NFL.  

 

He is fast enough and as fast or faster than many of the best WR's of the last 10 years.  Whether he will develop the technique and skills to reach his potential is still to be seen, but there is a reason to be optimistic he will because he has the attitude, the work ethic, the drive, etc to believe he will put in the work to get there.

Hear hear.

 

Keenan Allen ran a 4.7. Tell me you don't want an in prime Keenan Allen.

 

Now there are question marks but that was everyone after the top 3.

 

Are teams putting their fastest corners on him? Great, they're not in Shakir and Samuel. Start him at X and let him box out #2 CBs until they send a safety over to clean up

[Simon]

43 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Is there a mute button for fake Bills fans strictly here to troll?

 

There is an "ignore" feature you can activate so you don't see any of his pointless crusades.

Just hover over his name (if using a PC) and it will pop up. 

I don't know how it works if you're using a phone.

[Mikey152]

1 hour ago, sven233 said:

It's not the lack of speed in the 40 that is necessarily concerning.  Would you like to see it at least a tenth faster? Yes.  What is concerning, though, is the tape.  Speed aside, the biggest problem he had in college is that he doesn't get consistent separation.  It's great that the next gen stats show that play speed isn't an issue.  It is a relief in a lot of ways.  But, that still doesn't change the game tape where even the receptions he does make, come with a CB all over him.  So, maybe the coaches see something that they can help him with in terms of release, route running, etc. that he wasn't doing in college that will use that actual play speed to his advantage.  If they do, and he works at it and becomes successful with what they are teaching, many of the other skills in a WR are there for sure.  But, unless the coaching staff has an idea of how to fix his separation issues, he is going to have to find ways to win against better competition in the NFL.

 

My guess is that I think they believe they have a plan for how to incorporate him into this offense and put him in advantageous situations.  I think the offense might look dramatically different than it has the last several years.  Brady has an entire off season to implement his full offense instead of just piecing things in here and there as the weeks went by last year.  I don't know......I am just searching for reasons to believe Coleman will make a major difference for us this year and it's tough when all I have to go by is his college tape and I see him struggling to get open.  But, like I've said all along, even though I am critical of him in a lot of ways, the things he does well, he does EXTREMELY well.  I am going to put my trust into the coaching staff to help him win with scheme here and there and play to his strengths. 

People keep saying that he doesn't separate on his tape...but how many of those people actually WATCHED his tape. And I don't just mean his targets.

 

If he is running mostly bubble screens and go routes from the X, what exactly do you expect?

[daz28]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Haha if Coleman turns out to be a bust, there’s going to be “Gauntlet speed” trolling here for the rest of our lives 

..and "at least he won't have to shop at Macy's anymore".  

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

And if "others jogged" and Coleman did his best, that is a data point I personally like - effort.  I think the "Go" might simulate the 60 better than the 40.

 

 

Seems a little far-fetched that every other WR over a 2 year period would be jogging during this and Coleman would be the only one running.

1 hour ago, fergie's ire said:

I don't know the drill...and don't really watch combine stuff.  However, I think I understand what the poster's concern is about not jogging and running out of bounds.  It would be the equivalent to timing baseball players to see how fast they could steal second.  They would be clocked from 1st to 2nd.  Most would slide or slow up before getting to second so they don't go past the bag.  If one player just ran full out and blew by the bag, he would have the fastest time, but he did the drill wrong.  It's supposed to simulate stealing a base and if you just run past it, you'd be out in a game.  The poster is saying that in the drill Coleman ran the point is to not go out of bounds (so players slow up to prevent from doing so) but by Coleman blowing past the sidelines he gets a faster time but does not accomplish the goal of the drill.

 

So I am supposed to believe that Coleman's fastest time for any WR in 2 years is only because every other WR doing this drill over the last 2 years simply jogged, but he ran full speed? That seems beyond the bounds of reason.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Coleman had a faster 10 yard split than Legette and Odunze. Same as AD Mitchell.

 

Speed isn’t an issue for him. It’s running routes. Something he’ll have to work on.

[Big Turk]

FWIW, Michael Irvin wanted the Cowboys to draft him in the 1st round with their pick and said "This is what the Cowboys need, they need to go get him". But what would he know, he only played the position in the NFL

[Logic]

2 hours ago, sven233 said:

It's not the lack of speed in the 40 that is necessarily concerning.  Would you like to see it at least a tenth faster? Yes.  What is concerning, though, is the tape.  Speed aside, the biggest problem he had in college is that he doesn't get consistent separation.  It's great that the next gen stats show that play speed isn't an issue.  It is a relief in a lot of ways.  But, that still doesn't change the game tape where even the receptions he does make, come with a CB all over him.  So, maybe the coaches see something that they can help him with in terms of release, route running, etc. that he wasn't doing in college that will use that actual play speed to his advantage.  If they do, and he works at it and becomes successful with what they are teaching, many of the other skills in a WR are there for sure.  But, unless the coaching staff has an idea of how to fix his separation issues, he is going to have to find ways to win against better competition in the NFL.

 

My guess is that I think they believe they have a plan for how to incorporate him into this offense and put him in advantageous situations.  I think the offense might look dramatically different than it has the last several years.  Brady has an entire off season to implement his full offense instead of just piecing things in here and there as the weeks went by last year.  I don't know......I am just searching for reasons to believe Coleman will make a major difference for us this year and it's tough when all I have to go by is his college tape and I see him struggling to get open.  But, like I've said all along, even though I am critical of him in a lot of ways, the things he does well, he does EXTREMELY well.  I am going to put my trust into the coaching staff to help him win with scheme here and there and play to his strengths. 

This is it in a nutshell for me.

I'm a big "film over everything else" guy. 

So honestly, the 40 time doesn't bother me one bit. The gauntlet drill is nice, the next gen tracking is nice, all of that stuff is encouraging.

But when you put on the tape of Coleman in college, it shows A LOT of him being blanketed by college corners. There are times when he's completely well covered by guys on Syracuse or Duke or Pitt. And if he's not getting separation against them, why should I presume he's going to get it against Jalen Ramsey, LaJarius Sneed, or Sauce Gardner? 

Yes, his route running should improve with pro coaching. And yes, his body should continue to grow and mature, and maybe that will unlock some new improvement.

But it's not unreasonable to be concerned that a guy who didn't get great separation in college may not just SUDDENLY learn how to get it in the pros, when the level of cornerback talent goes up a million percent. 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

There's no denying he has above average hands. The tape proves he can catch contested balls using his basketball background. Alot if us screamed (including myself) bloody murder when Allen was taken over Rosen. Maybe most of us are wrong again about Coleman.  Time will tell....

[Turk71]

These are the top speeds hit by the top prospects during last college season from Reel Analytics 

Colemans top speed of 19.6 mph, he achieved during a punt return, was the lowest among the 15 wrs they posted.

Ray Davis with the 4th highest top speed for rbs of 21.7 mph vs Florida

[kota]

Again the greatest WR in the history of the NFL Jerry Rice posted a 4.6 40 time.  These guys aren't track and field experts please let it go.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Not trying to be difficult just responding to the post. These combine links keep getting posted as evidence that he's not slow. I think we need to compare in game speeds and not drills. But all you have to do is watch his film to see that he has defenders on him every play. Maybe the ACC has amazing db's and he will have better luck in the NFL but I highly doubt that

All you need to know about MHJ is his jacket size for Canton

That is super premature LOL 

 

He is very talented but super overrated... Sammy Watkins was a better prospect coming out and we all know how that turned out 

 

 

[Turk71]

Hate to burst bubbles but the narrative that he has fast in-game speed and that he is a beast at contested catches is not supported by the data.

  His contested catch win rate of 45% was 11th among prospects. His top in game speed of 19.6 mph was 15th.

Even though he has good size, he's not good at beating press or single man coverage either.

 I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm just saying that these assumptions many are making were not backed up on the field. If they were not strengths in college, expecting them to be strengths in the pros seems completely unrealistic.

[syhuang]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

There is an "ignore" feature you can activate so you don't see any of his pointless crusades.

Just hover over his name (if using a PC) and it will pop up. 

I don't know how it works if you're using a phone.

 

Maybe this should be posted in a different place. Is there an option to also "ignore" the replies which quote these ignored users?

 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So let me see...you're frustrated that people are not wallowing in the negative viewpoint end of the pool where you swim 365 days a year on everything Bills related?  Maybe...just maybe...if you were not the one who has like a 100% success right of putting a negative emoticons on every post here that has any positivity to it what so ever and only ever liking ones that support a negative view point others might actually discuss more rationally your view points.  

 

Bottom line is pretty simple with Coleman...if you line him up with a faster corner and just say go deep in a straight line, he isn't going to run past him.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have the speed to still be a deep ball guy, the speed to get open, the speed to be a great WR1 in the NFL.  

 

He is fast enough and as fast or faster than many of the best WR's of the last 10 years.  Whether he will develop the technique and skills to reach his potential is still to be seen, but there is a reason to be optimistic he will because he has the attitude, the work ethic, the drive, etc to believe he will put in the work to get there.

agree on fast enough, there are a lot of different ways to win your route than just pure fast. understanding leverage and body control vs nfl dbs is at least as important as straightline speed

 

hoping this kid can pick it up quickly...get adam henry in his ear as much as possible and maybe we found mike evans comp

[Southern_Bills]

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Hear hear.

 

Keenan Allen ran a 4.7. Tell me you don't want an in prime Keenan Allen.

 

Now there are question marks but that was everyone after the top 3.

 

Are teams putting their fastest corners on him? Great, they're not in Shakir and Samuel. Start him at X and let him box out #2 CBs until they send a safety over to clean up

Exactly,  no team just drafts speed. Way more goes into it. If he ran a 4.2 and had everything else he does right now he wouldn't have been available at 33.

 

I'm sure Andy Reid will put Worthy in favorable situations but remember guys, we do not have Andy Reid in Buffalo. It makes a difference 

[Freak-O]

8 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Not trying to be difficult just responding to the post. These combine links keep getting posted as evidence that he's not slow. I think we need to compare in game speeds and not drills. But all you have to do is watch his film to see that he has defenders on him every play. Maybe the ACC has amazing db's and he will have better luck in the NFL but I highly doubt that

All you need to know about MHJ is his jacket size for Canton

 If you want to prove his game speed is slow, at least put some effort in and find some game film that points to that, instead of assuming no one else ran top speed in the drills. I’m pretty sure the Bills staff has seen more of him than the combine. 

[KDIGGZ]

5 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

 If you want to prove his game speed is slow, at least put some effort in and find some game film that points to that, instead of assuming no one else ran top speed in the drills. I’m pretty sure the Bills staff has seen more of him than the combine.