Traditional vs. 'Modern Day' X Receiver

[Back2Buff]

The Dolphins have none of the X,Y,Z crappy classifications and had the number 1 passing offense.  Teams that over think these roles will end up setting themselves back.  Speed and explosiveness will always kill.  

[Mikey152]

1 minute ago, Back2Buff said:

The Dolphins have none of the X,Y,Z crappy classifications and had the number 1 passing offense.  Teams that over think these roles will end up setting themselves back.  Speed and explosiveness will always kill.  

 

Not true...alignment is alignment. They have to have an eligible receiver on each side of the LOS.

[The Frankish Reich]

I'm kinda old. 

When did the X, Y, Z nomenclature take over?

WR1, TE, Slot

Or from my early days: Split End, Tight End, Flanker (that one was before my time, but I knew what it meant)

Isn't it all the same thing, different name? Or am I missing some subtlety here?

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm kinda old. 

When did the X, Y, Z nomenclature take over?

WR1, TE, Slot

Or from my early days: Split End, Tight End, Flanker (that one was before my time, but I knew what it meant)

Isn't it all the same thing, different name? Or am I missing some subtlety here?

Flanker and split end are just old school names for alignments

 

The x is the split end.. he is lined up on the line of scrimmage and cannot motion

 

The z is the flanker and lined off the line of scrimmage

 

[The Frankish Reich]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Flanker and split end are just old school names for alignments

 

The x is the split end.. he is lined up on the line of scrimmage and cannot motion

 

The z is the flanker and lined off the line of scrimmage

 

Thanks. That's what I thought. Same thing, different name.

Maybe I'll live long enough to see it change again!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Good thread.

I don't know how the pros look at WR but to me I see body size and route trees as the differentiator. 

To me Samuel is closer to what Diggs was. 

I think they still need to replace what Davis didn't pan out to be. A guy that can get deep and be a big body on deep crossing routes. They have enough small fast guys that can find holes in the zones. They need a guy that takes the top off the defense and forces them to play 2 deep safeties. That opens up all kinds of things underneath and helps the run game. 

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Good thread.

I don't know how the pros look at WR but to me I see body size and route trees as the differentiator. 

To me Samuel is closer to what Diggs was. 

I think they still need to replace what Davis didn't pan out to be. A guy that can get deep and be a big body on deep crossing routes. They have enough small fast guys that can find holes in the zones. They need a guy that takes the top off the defense and forces them to play 2 deep safeties. That opens up all kinds of things underneath and helps the run game. 

I more or less agree. See my breakdown a few posts back. To be a complete passing game you need a variety of receivers. Not on every single play, but in general skill sets, so as to keep the defense from taking everything away. 

[BigAl2526]

I'm wary of Worthy's lack of body mass, though I don't know of a specific reason he couldn't add 15 -20 lbs of muscle.  If the Bills did draft him, that would be my hope.  I don't know that I would rule out the possibility that Thomas and Mitchell cand develop their route running and ability to gain separation.  They have ample athleticism to do so, and have already grown in their route running through the course of their college careers.

[Mikey152]

Bottom line is, the more tools a guy has in his toolbelt, the more you can do with him. It doesn't always trump guys who are really good at a few things, but if all your receivers are limited in some way, you do become predictable on offense.

 

Not everyone needs to be a jack of all trades, but having a guy who lines up on the ball and can get open is a big benefit for an offense...because a defense needs to roll coverage to stop them.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

Bottom line is, the more tools a guy has in his toolbelt, the more you can do with him. It doesn't always trump guys who are really good at a few things, but if all your receivers are limited in some way, you do become predictable on offense.

 

Not everyone needs to be a jack of all trades, but having a guy who lines up on the ball and can get open is a big benefit for an offense...because a defense needs to roll coverage to stop them.

Agreed. And with a mobile QB like Josh Allen the smart move is to design plays with layers of receiver depths for him to choose from in a roll out mode. The defense can’t cover every depth AND also protect against Josh running it.

[LeGOATski]

13 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't see Samuel as a Davis replacement, so I don't see that move as addressing the loss of the boundary receiver, or now Diggs.

Unless you think Shakir can take over for Davis, I think you still need two.

Samuel is a 700-800 yard receiver in Brady's offense and still has the speed to go deep. He's definitely a Davis replacement in my book. Now we just get an all-around star to replace Diggs. I'd prefer a bigger guy with good hands. I bet the Bills will land one of Odunze, Thomas, or Legette.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

Samuel is a 700-800 yard receiver in Brady's offense and still has the speed to go deep. He's definitely a Davis replacement in my book. Now we just get an all-around star to replace Diggs. I'd prefer a bigger guy with good hands. I bet the Bills will land one of Odunze, Thomas, or Legette.

The definitions of these guys is literally all over the place! Samuel was a running back and is 5’ 11” at best. Gabe Davis is considered a big body WR and is listed at 6’ 2”. Their output might be similar in terms or yards, but are they at all similar in terms of their generally considered WR role? I didn’t think so. 

[Pete]

Who didn't love the Bills dominating the Cowboys?  The Bills do not want to be a finesse team, they want to smash teams.  If we drafted Worthy, we would have the shortest WR group in NFL.  Thats not physically dominating, it's more towards finesse.  We need a big WR that can take the top off.

[LeGOATski]

21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The definitions of these guys is literally all over the place! Samuel was a running back and is 5’ 11” at best. Gabe Davis is considered a big body WR and is listed at 6’ 2”. Their output might be similar in terms or yards, but are they at all similar in terms of their generally considered WR role? I didn’t think so. 

You're not wrong, but you can reference the whole thread about WR roles currently on the front page. Some people in there explain I better than me.

 

Samuel's on the shorter side, but not skinny/small. He has good hands can run any route Davis did. Davis is not a super-athletic, jump ball-catching boundary WR, anyway.

 

Samuel can get the production Davis did, while hopefully the star rookie takes over the WR1 role by year two, if not year 1. I'm hoping the replacement for Diggs has that contested catch ability and super speed in his arsenal.

[SoCal Deek]

30 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

You're not wrong, but you can reference the whole thread about WR roles currently on the front page. Some people in there explain I better than me.

 

Samuel's on the shorter side, but not skinny/small. He has good hands can run any route Davis did. Davis is not a super-athletic, jump ball-catching boundary WR, anyway.

 

Samuel can get the production Davis did, while hopefully the star rookie takes over the WR1 role by year two, if not year 1. I'm hoping the replacement for Diggs has that contested catch ability and super speed in his arsenal.

One of the things that I gleaned from the up thread discussion is the NFL no longer relies on what we all knew as the traditional roles…much like the NBA has gone away from guard, forward, center lineups in favor of a bunch of versatile 6’ 6” guys. 

Edited April 9 by SoCal Deek

[appoo]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:00 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm kinda old. 

When did the X, Y, Z nomenclature take over?

WR1, TE, Slot

Or from my early days: Split End, Tight End, Flanker (that one was before my time, but I knew what it meant)

Isn't it all the same thing, different name? Or am I missing some subtlety here?

When I played freshman football in 1995 I was an X

[DCofNC]

On 4/8/2024 at 12:31 PM, SoonerBillsFan said:

Cosell said he sees Thomas and AD Mitchell as guys who will develop  into #1 WR's.  BUT.... there is no denying the pure speed of Worthy.  I don't know if we need a true X in the form of size. We just need guys who can beat man coverage, create space and catch the ball consistently. A guy can be 5'11 and 190lbs and do that esp if he has a good Vertical for contested balls. 

Speed is great, when there is space.  Give me a guy that can produce in the RZ ALL DAY over a pure burner.   How many of those super fast guys are worth anything when it counts?  Think 4th quarter, December, 3rd and goal from the 8.  Ball has to come out fast, screw the smurfs, give me a DUDE.

[PBF81]

A team can have great WRs but if they don't use them optimally then you'll never get the most out of 'em.  

 

Someone mentioned it the other day in a thread, but Allen's going to have to expand his playing to hit the open guys underneath, in the flats, and on the outsides short-medium and we'll be fine.  If Brady/Allen don't do that then we leave a lot on the table regardless of who our WRs are.  Allen did it best in '21 but still not exceptionally well.  All the great QBs have done that well.  

 

 

Edited April 10 by PBF81

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Speed is great, when there is space.  Give me a guy that can produce in the RZ ALL DAY over a pure burner.   How many of those super fast guys are worth anything when it counts?  Think 4th quarter, December, 3rd and goal from the 8.  Ball has to come out fast, screw the smurfs, give me a DUDE.

Several of the WR's in this draft have 39+ in verticals, so they get contested balls. 

[DCofNC]

On 4/10/2024 at 5:18 PM, SoonerBillsFan said:

Several of the WR's in this draft have 39+ in verticals, so they get contested balls. 

But can they get off the press coverage in time for it to matter?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

But can they get off the press coverage in time for it to matter?

In spirit of the thread, I think this is where many folks get hung up. We like to discuss players as if the suit a particular position a la “he can play the X”…I’m just not so sure that labeling it as such nearly describes WHY people are making that comparison. 
 

I think the traditional roles of an X or Z or slot are often over cast onto specific skill sets (quickness, size, etc). As you said, idc what you call them, but can they win and win now? 
 

A guy like worthy isn’t on the table at 28 for the Bills IMO not because he “can’t play the X” but because he likely will not offer skills that they value such as blocking, winning of LOS etc 

[Richard Noggin]

25 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

In spirit of the thread, I think this is where many folks get hung up. We like to discuss players as if the suit a particular position a la “he can play the X”…I’m just not so sure that labeling it as such nearly describes WHY people are making that comparison. 
 

I think the traditional roles of an X or Z or slot are often over cast onto specific skill sets (quickness, size, etc). As you said, idc what you call them, but can they win and win now? 
 

A guy like worthy isn’t on the table at 28 for the Bills IMO not because he “can’t play the X” but because he likely will not offer skills that they value such as blocking, winning of LOS etc 

 

Love the first two paragraphs calling for more fluidity/flexibility in how we label WR traits, ESPECIALLY in light of how E-P passing concepts specifically seek to muddy up all that static, pedantic defining of individual roles. Each guy needs to be able to execute each route/responsibility in order for the offense to really hum. 

 

As for the bolded, I'm of two minds. On one hand, yes the Bills had fallen in love with WR pre-snap motion where Gabe Davis (or sometimes Sherfield) very obviously motions/reduces down into box with the intent to run block...and they need a guy who can still do that effectively. 

 

On the other hand, that was insanely predictable (think Davis' motion timing on own-goal-line backed up QB sneak against Vikings, or basically every other time he motioned to condense the formation -- minus that early TD play against Rams in 2022 NFL opener on the road at LA). There is a role for a run-blocking WR in this offense, FOR SURE. Might be part of why moving on from Diggs was palatable: he lacked that flexibility and physicality? I'd like to see what Brady's offense looks like with truly interchangeable WRs. WRs who can run after catch and put in an honest blocking effort while also being able to separate downfield. That's the E-P dream scenario. 

 

Ignoring all that, Xavier Worthy represents a skillset and downfield threat that our current WR room lacks. McD and Beane have both mentioned a need for "explosive" passing plays. He's better all around that many casual fans realize, and in my opinion, offers blue-chip traits (long speed and explosivity) with enough else (hands and separation skills) to attract a GM like Beane. Allen can benefit greatly from a downfield threat like Brown, younger Diggs, younger Sanders, sometimes Davis, and whoever is next. We're missing that piece just as much, if not more, than we're missing a WR who can block. 

 

Maybe Xavier Legette does both? 

Edited April 14 by Richard Noggin

[SoonerBillsFan]

55 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Love the first two paragraphs calling for more fluidity/flexibility in how we label WR traits, ESPECIALLY in light of how E-P passing concepts specifically seek to muddy up all that static, pedantic defining of individual roles. Each guy needs to be able to execute each route/responsibility in order for the offense to really hum. 

 

As for the bolded, I'm of two minds. On one hand, yes the Bills had fallen in love with WR pre-snap motion where Gabe Davis (or sometimes Sherfield) very obviously motions/reduces down into box with the intent to run block...and they need a guy who can still do that effectively. 

 

On the other hand, that was insanely predictable (think Davis' motion timing on own-goal-line backed up QB sneak against Vikings, or basically every other time he motioned to condense the formation -- minus that early TD play against Rams in 2022 NFL opener on the road at LA). There is a role for a run-blocking WR in this offense, FOR SURE. Might be part of why moving on from Diggs was palatable: he lacked that flexibility and physicality? I'd like to see what Brady's offense looks like with truly interchangeable WRs. WRs who can run after catch and put in an honest blocking effort while also being able to separate downfield. That's the E-P dream scenario. 

 

Ignoring all that, Xavier Worthy represents a skillset and downfield threat that our current WR room lacks. McD and Beane have both mentioned a need for "explosive" passing plays. He's better all around that many casual fans realize, and in my opinion, offers blue-chip traits (long speed and explosivity) with enough else (hands and separation skills) to attract a GM like Beane. Allen can benefit greatly from a downfield threat like Brown, younger Diggs, younger Sanders, sometimes Davis, and whoever is next. We're missing that piece just as much, if not more, than we're missing a WR who can block. 

 

Maybe Xavier Legette does both? 

I don't know much about the WR's in this drafts blocking skills.  But for the other attributes I have AD Mitchell, and Thomas JR as guys who can do that.  I presume they think Franklin and Tez might be able to do that as well. Or... they aren't sure and did extra work on both to see if they could.

 

I think Beane wants Thomas Jr, but realistically will get Franklin or AD.

[Richard Noggin]

10 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't know much about the WR's in this drafts blocking skills.  But for the other attributes I have AD Mitchell, and Thomas JR as guys who can do that.  I presume they think Franklin and Tez might be able to do that as well. Or... they aren't sure and did extra work on both to see if they could.

 

I think Beane wants Thomas Jr, but realistically will get Franklin or AD.

 

Agree on Thomas Jr as high ceiling trade-up target. AD Mitchell, on the other hand, is all blue-chip traits but Busch League process. Would think Legette's upside, resilience, and physicality make him a much better fit for what Brady wants to do. But based on what's been said about needing to add explosive plays to the offense, which we can pretty much all agree with, my money is on Worthy or Franklin. 

 

Problem is, the Bills need BOTH a big boundary specimen AND an explosive deep threat. Trading up for Odunze or Thomas could fill both holes at a premium cost, whereas what's left after them (omitting Mitchell due to his lack of football character) is an assortment of more specialized prospects. I think Worthy or Franklin make sense as downfield threats, and Legette, McConkey, and Polk make sense as more well-rounded prospects. Coleman is an outlier in that his analytics are AWFUL, but for some reason (including his best-ever combine gauntlet) he seems like a sleeper. Walker is a talented enigma who might not be a good football player at the next level. Pearsall has flashed serious ability, but his analytics don't project well outside at the next level. 

 

That still leaves, Corley, Cowing, Baker, Wilson, Wilson, McMillan, Rice, etc. 

 

In a potentially historic WR draft pool, the Bills NEED at least one top-3 depth chart prospect, if not two top-4 guys. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Agree on Thomas Jr as high ceiling trade-up target. AD Mitchell, on the other hand, is all blue-chip traits but Busch League process. Would think Legette's upside, resilience, and physicality make him a much better fit for what Brady wants to do. But based on what's been said about needing to add explosive plays to the offense, which we can pretty much all agree with, my money is on Worthy or Franklin. 

 

Problem is, the Bills need BOTH a big boundary specimen AND an explosive deep threat. Trading up for Odunze or Thomas could fill both holes at a premium cost, whereas what's left after them (omitting Mitchell due to his lack of football character) is an assortment of more specialized prospects. I think Worthy or Franklin make sense as downfield threats, and Legette, McConkey, and Polk make sense as more well-rounded prospects. Coleman is an outlier in that his analytics are AWFUL, but for some reason (including his best-ever combine gauntlet) he seems like a sleeper. Walker is a talented enigma who might not be a good football player at the next level. Pearsall has flashed serious ability, but his analytics don't project well outside at the next level. 

 

That still leaves, Corley, Cowing, Baker, Wilson, Wilson, McMillan, Rice, etc. 

 

In a potentially historic WR draft pool, the Bills NEED at least one top-3 depth chart prospect, if not two top-4 guys. 

Great post.  The more I think about it, beane saw Hill terrorize us for a few years.  Hill is only 195, Worthy 165.  So maybe he feels worthy can put on a few pounds and be fine?

Edited April 14 by SoonerBillsFan

[Dr. Who]

10 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Great post.  The more I think about it, beane saw Hill terrorize us for a few years.  Hill is only 195, Worthy 165.  So maybe he feels worthy can put on a few pounds and be fine?

I dunno, 30 lbs seems significant to me. I think Worthy is a talent. I'm worried about his size. If you get Worthy, you better find a way to get Legette, too, imo. (There are others, like Walker and Polk, that one could consider.)

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I dunno, 30 lbs seems significant to me. I think Worthy is a talent. I'm worried about his size. If you get Worthy, you better find a way to get Legette, too, imo. (There are others, like Walker and Polk, that one could consider.)

Polk is a guy that really intrigues me.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Polk is a guy that really intrigues me.

He's the quiet fella everyone is forgetting. Except @NewEra

[Buffalo716]

15 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Love the first two paragraphs calling for more fluidity/flexibility in how we label WR traits, ESPECIALLY in light of how E-P passing concepts specifically seek to muddy up all that static, pedantic defining of individual roles. Each guy needs to be able to execute each route/responsibility in order for the offense to really hum. 

 

As for the bolded, I'm of two minds. On one hand, yes the Bills had fallen in love with WR pre-snap motion where Gabe Davis (or sometimes Sherfield) very obviously motions/reduces down into box with the intent to run block...and they need a guy who can still do that effectively. 

 

On the other hand, that was insanely predictable (think Davis' motion timing on own-goal-line backed up QB sneak against Vikings, or basically every other time he motioned to condense the formation -- minus that early TD play against Rams in 2022 NFL opener on the road at LA). There is a role for a run-blocking WR in this offense, FOR SURE. Might be part of why moving on from Diggs was palatable: he lacked that flexibility and physicality? I'd like to see what Brady's offense looks like with truly interchangeable WRs. WRs who can run after catch and put in an honest blocking effort while also being able to separate downfield. That's the E-P dream scenario. 

 

Ignoring all that, Xavier Worthy represents a skillset and downfield threat that our current WR room lacks. McD and Beane have both mentioned a need for "explosive" passing plays. He's better all around that many casual fans realize, and in my opinion, offers blue-chip traits (long speed and explosivity) with enough else (hands and separation skills) to attract a GM like Beane. Allen can benefit greatly from a downfield threat like Brown, younger Diggs, younger Sanders, sometimes Davis, and whoever is next. We're missing that piece just as much, if not more, than we're missing a WR who can block. 

 

Maybe Xavier Legette does both? 

It's 2024... There is a difference between verbiage systems and schemes now 

 

For all intensive purposes.. when someone says EP or West Coast... They're talking about the verbiage system... Not a specific scheme ... There still is a West Coast scheme but it is differentiated from the system

 

You can run any single play with West Coast verbiage or EP verbiage... The difference is how it gets out 

 

It's not like 50 years ago where the systems was built for specific schemes.. so a team using the corryell system was vastly different than a team using the West Coast system

 

Nowadays that's not the case 

 

Every single play in football has been ran.. it's over 100 years old ... You can run an uptempo vertical spread offense from the EP.. or a West Coast zone run scheme from the EP

 

South Right Clamp Fake 67 Slant Naked Right Zebra Slide Can 67 Slant... That will be a call in a West Coast system... Really wordsy , and a lot to memorize

 

F Right 72 Ghost/Tosser.. same call in EP 

 

It's a lot easier to get out.. which is why teams have gone to the EP.. it has nothing to do with the types of plays you can use but how you relays information 

 

Edited April 14 by Buffalo716

[Richard Noggin]

20 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Great post.  The more I think about it, beane saw Hill terrorize us for a few years.  Hill is only 195, Worthy 165.  So maybe he feels worthy can put on a few pounds and be fine?

 

10 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I dunno, 30 lbs seems significant to me. I think Worthy is a talent. I'm worried about his size. If you get Worthy, you better find a way to get Legette, too, imo. (There are others, like Walker and Polk, that one could consider.)

 

Hill was a bit of a RB in college, wasn't he? Definitely short, but not small. Well-built dude. 

 

Worthy is slighter for sure, but won't play in the NFL at that reduced, record-breaking (by design) weight of 165lbs. I'd guess he's closer to 175/180 his rookie season. 

 

Also agree that Polk is intriguing. Heck, so is McMillan for that matter. 

[SoCal Deek]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's 2024... There is a difference between verbiage systems and schemes now 

 

For all intensive purposes.. when someone says EP or West Coast... They're talking about the verbiage system... Not a specific scheme ... There still is a West Coast scheme but it is differentiated from the system

 

You can run any single play with West Coast verbiage or EP verbiage... The difference is how it gets out 

 

It's not like 50 years ago where the systems was built for specific schemes.. so a team using the corryell system was vastly different than a team using the West Coast system

 

Nowadays that's not the case 

 

Every single play in football has been ran.. it's over 100 years old ... You can run an uptempo vertical spread offense from the EP.. or a West Coast zone run scheme from the EP

 

South Right Clamp Fake 67 Slant Naked Right Zebra Slide Can 67 Slant... That will be a call in a West Coast system... Really wordsy , and a lot to memorize

 

F Right 72 Ghost/Tosser.. same call in EP 

 

It's a lot easier to get out.. which is why teams have gone to the EP.. it has nothing to do with the types of plays you can use but how you relays information 

 

I just heard this on the radio the other day (there are a bunch of similar common misstatements) …and I’m not desperate to be the grammar police….but….the correct phrase is “for all intents and purposes”….not intensive purposes. 😉

[DCofNC]

On 4/13/2024 at 10:34 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

In spirit of the thread, I think this is where many folks get hung up. We like to discuss players as if the suit a particular position a la “he can play the X”…I’m just not so sure that labeling it as such nearly describes WHY people are making that comparison. 
 

I think the traditional roles of an X or Z or slot are often over cast onto specific skill sets (quickness, size, etc). As you said, idc what you call them, but can they win and win now? 
 

A guy like worthy isn’t on the table at 28 for the Bills IMO not because he “can’t play the X” but because he likely will not offer skills that they value such as blocking, winning of LOS etc 

 

Really well put.  I look at the current roster and have to think the ideal target is going to be a physical specimen.  Shakir and Samuel are smaller fast guys who can work inside or outside.  Kincaid will spend a lot of time in the middle, Cook will take throws inside, so who is the outside guy?  You can’t rely on Shorter, Hollis etc.  Not to knock the efforts last year, but letting D-Hop go to the Titans on that deal was a huge miss, he’s the perfect fit for what they need.  He has plenty of speed, size, vertical ability and most importantly, he catches everything.   The Bills really need an Anquon Boldin type who’s both physical off the line and fast enough to make you think twice about him down the field.  I don’t think they need the real burner.  Samuel or Shakir going down field is going to be plenty, they will run past any S in the league.  They have to connect on a few to get respect for the deep ball again. Just that respect is enough to impact the D.  Unless you get a guy with absolutely elite explosiveness like Hill, the smaller frames generally are manageable in the red-zone, jam them up, timing is gone, their impact is taken away in tight spaces.  The Bills have moved effortlessly for 3 years between the 20s, they were good in the RZ when Davis had his head out of his ass and Knox was a threat, why both of them disappeared is more than I know, but they did.  Then it became Josh waiting on Diggs to get open and the RZ became a problem.  With exactly zero people on this roster for anyone to fear, teams will be going after JA in the RZ if they don’t find a threat, I live Kincaid and he can be that guy, but he hasn’t proved he is Kelce 2.0.  So when is matters, where is the ball going?  Josh is going to play Superman again.  They have to do better.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I just heard this on the radio the other day (there are a bunch of similar common misstatements) …and I’m not desperate to be the grammar police….but….the correct phrase is “for all intents and purposes”….not intensive purposes. 😉

I have a dozen concussions from my football career 

 

I'm glad I can remember where my car keys are 🤣