I contend that this team's problem isn't coaching, it's talent.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think the point is that you can’t argue the Bills have the # 1 player at a position in anything other than Allen. 
 

The Chiefs can argue Mahomes, Kelce, Joe Thuney, Creed Humphrey, Chris Jones, Trent McDuffie(slot CB), and maybe Harrison Butker. 

 

 

If you're going to be that kind on the Chiefs, you have to be just as kind to the Bills, who can claim Allen, Diggs (not this year but that could easily be a result of injury, it's hard to know), Taron Johnson and Milano as among those in the mix for All Pro mentions at their positions most years.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, balln said:

Seems like you just have an issue with me. I’m talking ball. Oliver is an average to above average rotational player 

 

Utter, utter nonsense. That isn't ball. It's trash.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with much of this.

 

I'm thankful for Beane.  Our roster had been pretty dang mediocre for nearly two decades.  Beane drafted a star QB and acquired some other good players.  Our depth is better than it's been in forever.  We owe a lot to Beane.    

 

But this is not a Super Bowl roster.  We don't have the best 22 starters in the league.   By and large, I think McD has done an imperfect but commendable job with the roster - and injuries - that he had.  There's never been a season when I looked at the SB champs and said, "Damn, we're better than them.  If only we had a better coach."   Instead, I think things like: If only we had their offensive line... or receivers... or pass rushers... or cornerbacks... or running game... or general health.  

 

 

 

The only year I have kinda thought that was the Bengals - Rams year. I didn't think either of those teams were better than the Bills. On a par, possibly, but not obviously better. Of course that was the 13 seconds year and I did still think the Chiefs were better than us (despite the fact we had them all but beat and it is the one loss that is without question on coaching). 

 

But the Chiefs - Buccs year, the Chiefs - Eagles year and now the Chiefs - 49ers? I think all 6 of those teams are/were better than the Bills of the corresponding season. 

 

Still, I am encouraged by the young guys that broke through this year. I said it last week after the defeat and I still feel it. I am more positive about where the roster is and our chance to get better next year than I was this time last year. And the reason is that collection of young guys. I felt like last spring once Ed Oliver had extended we didn't have any of our top 10 players who were still on rookie deals. Now we might have 3 or 4. That is promising. Stack another good draft and one or two of those guys take a step and hopefully the chips fall our way. 

[Governor]

Both are often true. McD is coaching up pretty weak talent but he’s coaching them up to fail on the big stage because his scheme doesn’t work against good teams.

 

Its not a good situation at all.

[machine gun kelly]

13 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

It’s not Madden.  You’re not going to have 22 all stars on any team.

[BillMafia716ix]

We have talent. I would say they have more talent than the Chiefs. Problem is there guys made all the key plays to win and we didn’t. They also had the more healthy squad and  we had a boatload of injuries. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

I believe they work hand to hand or rather in lockstep like they say. If anything Mcd is the throne bearer here and he's a control freak. He clashed with both Daboll and Frasier. These underwhelming drafts and lack thereof of superstar talent falls on both of them. I truly believe they both got to go..

[Mrbojanglezs]

50/50 coaching/talent a better coach could have gotten us there as well as better players with current coaching 

[Niagara Dude]

15 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

Biggest problem is bad contracts for guys who are older,  Miller/Diggs and White who is getting older and had two major injuries

[Gregg]

15 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

We'll have to disagree there.

 

The year of 13 seconds they would have had a good shot to get to and win the Super Bowl.

[balln]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Utter, utter nonsense. That isn't ball. It's trash.

Oliver had 1 assisted tackle in the biggest game of the year. Before you say “well you can’t just look at box score.” Ok sure. I watched the game. I watched Oliver. Once again it looked like Cincy game last year where he gets OWNED in run game. 
 

so fine he’s a penetrating rusher. Where’s he affect the qb when it matters most ?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, balln said:

Oliver had 1 assisted tackle in the biggest game of the year. Before you say “well you can’t just look at box score.” Ok sure. I watched the game. I watched Oliver. Once again it looked like Cincy game last year where he gets OWNED in run game. 
 

so fine he’s a penetrating rusher. Where’s he affect the qb when it matters most ?

 

He did not play his best on Sunday, no doubt. And last year he didn't either but he was hurt and playing with one arm. But he is one of our best players, he has had a great year and the famous 13 second game he was probably our best defensive player and was in Mahomes's face a lot.

 

Saying he is an average rotational player because of one disappointing game and one game where he was playing with one arm is ridiculous.

[Coach Tuesday]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did not play his best on Sunday, no doubt. And last year he didn't either but he was hurt and playing with one arm. But he is one of our best players, he has had a great year and the famous 13 second game he was probably our best defensive player and was in Mahomes's face a lot.

 

Saying he is an average rotational player because of one disappointing game and one game where he was playing with one arm is ridiculous.

 

The OP has had it out for Oliver for years, it's become a crusade because his opinion won't change even after an All Pro-level season.  Facts don't matter.

 

Turning to the actual topic - they definitely need a talent infusion but it was an either/or situation this year.  Better coaching and better discipline and they still could've gotten past KC and perhaps Baltimore.  Both Josh and Sean showed immaturity/fantasy-based decision-making at key junctures in the Divisional Round:

 

1)  The fake punt - had no issue with the call itself, but I am like 85% sure that McD had visions of the articles that would be written about him if he successfully called Hamlin's number on a critical game-changing play.

 

2)  The post-two minute warning offense - Allen had the game in hand by playing within structure and taking what the defense was offering, then came back from the two minute warning determined to win the game by himself.  No doubt he had visions of a walk-off TD pass.  Instead, it was season over.

 

Both Allen and McD need to grow from that last game.  And they need more talent, there's no question about it.  It's both.

[T master]

18 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

 

Although i agree with you that it is a talent disparity i don't think either should be fired, after what they have put in place here from what it was & that each year both seem to learn from their short comings moving forward is a good thing . 

 

Oh & as we all know hind sight is 20-20 and we can all second guess the picks . They do need to get some more elite talent in the draft to stay relevant & i feel Beane will do that and the injury thing just sucks and as the team gets older they will probably be there just because .

 

Beane has found some foundational players like Torrence, Rousseau, Ed, but yes we need a player that can't be shut down like Ed, & Diggs were . I think the Bills are very close and the changed made to this point are all for the betterment of the team moving forward .

 

Frazier is gone IMHO because McD saw time & again that he wasn't as aggressive the times he needed to be hence the 13 second game so McD made a change, Dorsey wasn't getting it done so again he made a change .

 

Now get a couple of top notch WR's in the draft and some good defensive players that will be difference makers & i think it can be different and better for the over all cap situation and the future .

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If you're going to be that kind on the Chiefs, you have to be just as kind to the Bills, who can claim Allen, Diggs (not this year but that could easily be a result of injury, it's hard to know), Taron Johnson and Milano as among those in the mix for All Pro mentions at their positions most years.

Milano was injured though lol. So was his backup and his backups backup and the guy that plays next to him 😂. Really think we would’ve beat kc pretty easily with just one starting LB 

 

[BeastMaster]

Someone hasn't been paying attention to the numerous poor decisions during games, and the complete failure of his defense in the playoffs.

 

Buffalo was the better team against KC in 2021 when they lost due to the 13 second epic failure

[Jauronimo]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Oliver. 

 

But otherwise I agree with your assessment of the major issue. Coaching isn't perfect. But we have lots of good players and not enough real top end talent. 

I highly doubt thats due to Beane's preference for lots of good with no great.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

We play great team defense. We done have an individual player on defense that can wreck a game, or at least does it in the playoffs. 
 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

39 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The OP has had it out for Oliver for years, it's become a crusade because his opinion won't change even after an All Pro-level season.  Facts don't matter.

 

Turning to the actual topic - they definitely need a talent infusion but it was an either/or situation this year.  Better coaching and better discipline and they still could've gotten past KC and perhaps Baltimore.  Both Josh and Sean showed immaturity/fantasy-based decision-making at key junctures in the Divisional Round:

 

1)  The fake punt - had no issue with the call itself, but I am like 85% sure that McD had visions of the articles that would be written about him if he successfully called Hamlin's number on a critical game-changing play.

 

2)  The post-two minute warning offense - Allen had the game in hand by playing within structure and taking what the defense was offering, then came back from the two minute warning determined to win the game by himself.  No doubt he had visions of a walk-off TD pass.  Instead, it was season over.

 

Both Allen and McD need to grow from that last game.  And they need more talent, there's no question about it.  It's both.

2 is a little ridiculous imo…they had to claw for every single inch on that last drive.  It wasn’t the smooth sailing your claiming it to be at all.  Kc defense was very stout all second half.  If you’ve got a wide open td I don’t think you can pass that up honestly.  That underneath throw to diggs almost assuredly brings up a 4th down attempt 

 

if he threw some kind of 50/50 jump ball on that second down play then I’d agree with that take a little more but he absolutely made the right read there imo 

if Dawkins holds up like 0.2 seconds more we probably win that game 

Edited January 29 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

2 is a little ridiculous imo…they had to claw for every single inch on that last drive.  It wasn’t the smooth sailing your claiming it to be at all.  Kc defense was very stout all second half.  If you’ve got a wide open td I don’t think you can pass that up honestly.  That underneath throw to diggs almost assuredly brings up a 4th down attempt 

 

if he threw some kind of 50/50 jump ball on that second down play then I’d agree with that take a little more but he absolutely made the right read there imo 

if Dawkins holds up like 0.2 seconds more we probably win that game 

The Shakir throw was the least of it - I am ok with taking the shot if you see it.  But the rest of the play calling was scattershot, they needed to be far more methodical.