vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) I'm sure all of you that watch the games closely have noticed Diggs coming off the field several times each game in crucial third down and other passing situations. Has happened a lot in recent weeks. His general snap count is down as well, has played less than 70% of offensive snaps in all recent weeks. Tim Graham has an article today in the Athletic about it, where he quotes Devin McCourty who has been examining this very issue leading up to the bills/fins game. https://theathletic.com/5180397/2024/01/05/buffalo-bills-dolphins-stefon-diggs-devin-mccourty/ It's behind a paywall but the gist of it is that McCourty is speculating that something is going on behind the scenes with Bills/Diggs, and the coaches/Allen won't say it but they are just trying to get through this season and the Bills may even be doing a little bit "we don't need you to win" type stuff by not playing him in certain crucial moments that any other #1WR would be in for. Why else would our best skill player not be on the field on crucial third downs in must win games? McCourty states that it has to be something serious going on or else it's coaching malpractice. I agree with him. I have noticed Diggs coming off the field too (not just when he asks for a breather but being designed off on third downs). Graham/McCourty got a lot of negative reaction from Bills fans in the comments, but I thought they were asking all the right questions. The coaches have said a few different things about why his production is down but none of them make sense. The double team thing has been sighted a lot, but then why isn't he playing almost every single play if that the case, as that would open up the offense ? Curious to hear people's thoughts on this board. Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) He most likely has an injury. Up until last week he didn’t look like he was moving like he normally does. Sitting someone to show them you can win with out them is stupid. Stupid idea, stupid to report it, stupid all around. Shouldn’t this go under talking head says something stupid or whatever that thread was called. Edited January 5 by Not at the table Karlos 2 1 1 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Yeah I’m going with injury at this point. Diggs usage is puzzling. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I was wondering this as well. He should be on the field EVERY third down regardless of the distance. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I think it's moreso Diggs taking himself out of the game than the coaching staff purposely replacing him at pivital spots in the game. Why is he taking himself out? That's the question that should be asked. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) I want to believe the injury thing but then why aren't the Bills going along with a scheme to hid his injury and not report it? That would be stupid and would make no sense. They report nagging injuries all the time, including Josh's shoulder and whatnot (that would be the one to hide if any). I don't buy the injury thing. I think you're naive if you don't think there is anything going on behind the scenes. Don't know exactly what it is but something is up. Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I'm guessing its because he's not always where he should be. I think diggs is a problem tbh in terms of attitude and it's his last season in buffalo depending what they can do contract wise. 1 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 his back has been bothering him he appeared to be having fun in practice. Josh Diggs and Davis have been spending time together putting in extra work very encouraging 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Just now, Warriorspikes51 said: his back has been bothering him That's not it. At least that would be stupid if so. The Bills already reported his back injury a while back, why would they hide it now? Also, even if Stef was nursing a back, do you think Stef would play part of the games but not crucial third downs? You think they would design screens to him so he automatically gets hit? That doesn't make sense. Something is going on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I noticed that as well and thought it was curious. Although they deny an injury, I tend to think he is injured and it will be revealed after the season. He's just too intense to be ok with not being in there and not being targeted as much. He would have had a bit of a tantrum on the sidelines by now. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: I want to believe the injury thing but then why aren't the Bills going along with a scheme to hid his injury and not report it? That would be stupid and would make no sense. They report nagging injuries all the time, including Josh's shoulder and whatnot (that would be the one to hide if any). I don't buy the injury thing. I think you're naive if you don't think there is anything going on behind the scenes. Don't know exactly what it is but something is up. I don't either. Brady was saying something about it saying it's not like anyone isn't where they are supposed to be, diggs gets constant targets under Dorsey then he's fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said: He most likely has an injury. Up until last week he didn’t look like he was moving like he normally does. Sitting someone to show them you can win with out them is stupid. Stupid idea, stupid to report it, stupid all around. Shouldn’t this go under talking head says something stupid or whatever that thread was called. yea- I have to think that an injury makes way more sense than a battle of egos. That he’s unhappy so they are intentionally going out of their way to poke him and agitate him more makes very little sense. That they are lying to cover an injury and protect his well being makes way more for now. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Quote When the third quarter began, Buffalo led by just six points. And there Diggs stood on the sideline for all eight plays, 75 yards and 4 minutes, 18 seconds it took to score a touchdown. Sherfield, with eight receptions all season, got Diggs’ snaps. He has played 46 percent, 60 percent and 65 percent of Buffalo’s offensive snaps the past three games. Gabe Davis and Khalil Shakir have played more. Sherfield has played more snaps than Diggs two of the past three weeks. I didn’t realize his usage had fallen off that much, especially to the bolded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: yea- I have to think that an injury makes way more sense than a battle of egos. That he’s unhappy so they are intentionally going out of their way to poke him and agitate him more makes very little sense. That they are lying to cover an injury and protect his well being makes way more for now. But then why is he playing some unimportant plays but coming out crucial third downs in must win games? Why are they throwing screen passes to him that all but ensure he's getting hit? Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 If it’s not an injury it’s definitely bizarre. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1onemangang7 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Same game parlays. Gotta shake the bettors off before he can rack up fantasy points in the playoffs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, vtnatefootball11 said: But then why is he playing some unimportant plays but coming out crucial third downs in must win games? Why are they throwing screen passes to him that all but ensure he's getting hit? When he's in the game they throw him the ball. When he takes himself out of the game they throw to other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 If Diggs was injured he would not have lined up at RB and taken a carry near the goal line last week IMO 3 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: When he's in the game they throw him the ball. When he takes himself out of the game they throw to other people. This has been proven incorrect. Josh hasn't even looked his way when is open on several intermediate routes in recent games, which is crazy and never would have happened in the past. He also has been intentionally schemed off on some third downs (not asking for it), and the Bills coaches have confirmed as much. Unless they are part of a massive coverup that could subject them to fines/loss of draft picks (which why would they do that? just report he has a nagging back), it's not just an injury thing. I'm sure everyone is banged up right now, but something else is going on. Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, vtnatefootball11 said: This has been proven incorrect. Josh isn't even targeting him when is open, which is crazy and never would have happened in the past. He also has been intentionally schemed off on some third downs (not asking for it), and the Bills coaches have confirmed as much. Unless they are part of a massive coverup that could subject them to fines/loss of draft picks (which why would they do that? just report he has a nagging back), it's not just an injury thing. I'm sure everyone is banged up right now, but something else is going on. What are the numbers on this that prove it? What are his snaps and target numbers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: But then why is he playing some unimportant plays but coming out crucial third downs in must win games? Why are they throwing screen passes to him that all but ensure he's getting hit? To the first half: because they believe converting a second down also avoids punting the ball? Because he can handle a few snaps before the issue flairs up a bit and it’s not 100% predictable? To the latter: because he sees a lot of attention and they still want to scheme ways to get him the ball in space? in my opinion the above all seems more likely than “stef is mad so the bills are benching him at key moments to knock him down a peg and he’s taking it with a smile” 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, WEATHER DOT COM said: I think it's moreso Diggs taking himself out of the game than the coaching staff purposely replacing him at pivital spots in the game. Why is he taking himself out? That's the question that should be asked. Dudes nursing an injury, 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Diggs has had some dumb drops this year... not all killers because I think on a few he would've been tackled immediately for a short or no gain. But it's definitely been a weird year for him. I assume he is playing injured more than we know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, WEATHER DOT COM said: If Diggs was injured he would not have lined up at RB and taken a carry near the goal line last week IMO And if there was some coaching conspiracy to keep the ball away from him, they wouldnt be force feeding as a RB after they saw the D take him away in the passing game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1onemangang7 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, zow2 said: Diggs has had some dumb drops this year... not all killers because I think on a few he would've been tackled immediately for a short or no gain. But it's definitely been a weird year for him. I assume he is playing injured more than we know. Drops have been a league wide theme. Nobody better skilled at it than KC. Nobody thinks they'll make a wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: And if there was some coaching conspiracy to keep the ball away from him, they wouldnt be force feeding as a RB after they saw the D take him away in the passing game. I don't think there is a coaching conspiracy to keep the ball away from him. I also don't think there's an injury conspiracy where he's too banged up to be on the field as often as he used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Having Shefield out there more than Diggs (if Diggs isn't injured) is concerning since Sherfield is hot TRASH! I mean, why Sherfield over Shakir???? I was screaming at McD through my TV to "GET THAT MOTHER ***** OFF THE FIELD!!!!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 There doesn’t need to be a violation of league policy for him to be nursing an injury and it not being reported. “A reportable injury is considered any injury that causes a player to miss a game, prevents them from finishing a game, or prevents them from completing their normal practice workload.“ 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WEATHER DOT COM said: I don't think there is a coaching conspiracy to keep the ball away from him. I also don't think there's an injury conspiracy where he's too banged up to be on the field as often as he used to be. Wasnt directing my comment at you as much as building off the post about the running play in the topic of the thread. That said, it isnt a big conspiracy or that uncommon for some minor yet nagging injuries to go unreported across the league. Diggs has been injured ever since he was illegally suplexed by Sauce Gardner, and then it happening again the next week. Edited January 5 by DrDawkinstein 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: What are the numbers on this that prove it? What are his snaps and target numbers? Watch the film and read the athletic article, I don't have time to pull together the statistics. McCourty highlights some of the intermediate routes where Diggs is wide open and Josh doesn't even look his way. I'm not suggesting some childish conspiracy on the bills part to not get the Diggs the ball, but clearly something is off between him and Allen, and the Bills are intentionally using him in less significant ways, and intentionally designing him off the field on third downs even when he isn't calling to be tapped out. Something has been going on in recent weeks, it's obvious if you don't have the blinders on. And no don't tell me this is all just part of huge injury conspiracy scheme to hid an injury and risk fines/draft picks when they easily just could report it as they have with all other players every year. Even if, everyone has nagging injuries, it's something more than that. Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, vtnatefootball11 said: What the film and read the athletic article, I don't have time to pull together the statistics. McCourty highlights some of the intermediate routes where Diggs is wide open and Josh doesn't even look his way. I'm not suggesting some childish conspiracy on the bills part to not get the Diggs the ball, but clearly something is off between him and Allen, and the Bills are intentionally using him in less significant ways, and intentionally designing him off the field on third downs even when he isn't calling to be tapped out. Something has been going on in recent weeks, it's obvious if you don't have the blinders on. And no don't tell me this is all just part of huge injury conspiracy scheme to hid a nagging back injury and risk fines/draft picks when they easily just could report it as they have with all other players every year. Ok, so no numbers handy means nothing has really been "proven". You are just buying into the assumptions and perceptions of some talking heads looking for clicks. Got it. And to the bold, it isnt a big conspiracy. It's literally how the NFL works. Nagging injuries that dont cause missed time dont need to be reported. You are making way more of this than there is. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) 17 minutes ago, NoSaint said: To the first half: because they believe converting a second down also avoids punting the ball? Because he can handle a few snaps before the issue flairs up a bit and it’s not 100% predictable? To the latter: because he sees a lot of attention and they still want to scheme ways to get him the ball in space? in my opinion the above all seems more likely than “stef is mad so the bills are benching him at key moments to knock him down a peg and he’s taking it with a smile” That's a stretch to your first part. To your second it still wouldn't make sense if he is truly hurt. Nobody is suggesting that "Stef is mad so Bills are benching him". In fact, Stef may be good and just saying he's tied of carrying the load and is only gonna do minimal effort until playoffs and Bills are trying to get other guys opportunities to grow, who knows, could be a hundred different things. We are just asking the question, why is he intentionally being schemed out by the Bills on crucial downs? What the heck is going on? We won't know the real reason until season ends likely, but something is up. Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I heard an interview that makes a ton of sense to me. Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd show. I think we can all agree that the middle of the OLINE has been struggling of late. Greg thinks that Allen leaves the pocket too soon and Diggs double moves take more time to set up. So Allen is in scramble drill which is killing the Diggs routes. Now why Diggs is coming out, I strongly suspect they need him for the playoffs and like all players, he is nursing aches and pains. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said: Having Shefield out there more than Diggs (if Diggs isn't injured) is concerning since Sherfield is hot TRASH! I mean, why Sherfield over Shakir???? I was screaming at McD through my TV to "GET THAT MOTHER ***** OFF THE FIELD!!!!" defenses don’t even cover him, Joe Marino showed how Allen’s Pats interception occurred when the safety declined to be moved by sherfields route. In the Philly game. He was totally mugged but so disrespected by the refs no flag came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Ok, so no numbers handy means nothing has really been "proven". You are just buying into the assumptions and perceptions of some talking heads looking for clicks. Got it. And to the bold, it isnt a big conspiracy. It's literally how the NFL works. Nagging injuries that dont cause missed time dont need to be reported. You are making way more of this than there is. Then why are the Bills reporting Allen's shoulder? Why did the report Diggs back a few weeks back? And by "proven" I meant the Bills coaching staff has said the exact opposite, and confirmed they schemed him out intentional not because he was asking or injury. I should have said "directly contradicted" rather than "proven" I'll give you that. But there is plenty of film of Allen not throwing his way when he is open on intermediate routes which has never happened in the past, he was always the first look. They could just be not trying to be so Diggs heavy on the first read, who knows. I'm not suggesting anything crazy, just asking the questions why he is being schemed out on crucial downs? An injury explanation doesn't add up, period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: That's a stretch to your first part. To your second it still wouldn't make sense if he is truly hurt. Nobody is suggesting that "Stef is mad so Bills are benching him". In fact, Stef may be good and just saying he's tied of carrying the load and is only gonna do minimal effort until playoffs and Bills are trying to get other guys opportunities to grow, who knows, could be a hundred different things. We are just asking the question, why is he intentionally being schemed out by the Bills on crucial downs? What the heck is going on? We won't know the real reason until season ends likely, but something is up. Ok, fair enough, you're just asking questions. Here are your answers: He isnt being schemed out. As a matter of fact the Bills are finding new ways to force the ball to him even if it means lining him up at RB. He isnt being taken out by coaches. He comes out on his own for breathers, and even more so now that he is nursing a lingering back/ribs injury from being illegally suplexed two weeks in a row. There is no conspiracy there because such injuries are common and not required to be reported if he isnt missing any time. Stef doesnt have the words "minimal effort" in his vocabulary. Please dont ever insult the best competitor we have on our team like that ever again. Go Bills. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAS Baritone Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, LeviF said: There doesn’t need to be a violation of league policy for him to be nursing an injury and it not being reported. “A reportable injury is considered any injury that causes a player to miss a game, prevents them from finishing a game, or prevents them from completing their normal practice workload.“ There have been plenty of times when a guy plays all year and gets surgery a week after the season ends. Then they mention it has been bothering him all year. Kair Elam was not on injury reports before being put on IR - they said the ankle was bothering him all season, not that it just suddenly happened in his last game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 38 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: I want to believe the injury thing but then why aren't the Bills going along with a scheme to hid his injury and not report it? That would be stupid and would make no sense. They report nagging injuries all the time, including Josh's shoulder and whatnot (that would be the one to hide if any). I don't buy the injury thing. I think you're naive if you don't think there is anything going on behind the scenes. Don't know exactly what it is but something is up. I don't buy injury at all or as like you said the Bills have to report it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) Literally just saw this on Twitter.... Edited January 5 by Wraith 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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