Greenberg - A Jets Fan - Pushing Back Against The Allen Hate

[PatsFanNH]

19 hours ago, Success said:

I try to be objective when it comes to Mahomes & Allen comparisons.  But since they both started, I think it's fairly obvious:  when Mahomes doesn't play well, it's excuse city. When Allen doesn't play well, it's, a ha!  We were right about him on draft day.

 

Mahomes has earned his excuse making.. 3 SB appearances and 2 SB titles. Allen doesn’t have a resume even close to that yet.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

Eli was a very good QB. Among the top 5 in his era over shadowed by Brady, Peyton, and others. I think he had more talent then Brees, Ryan, Rodgers, and many others.

 

He and Rivers do not get enough respect for how talented they were because of the bad teams they were on but both elevated their teams. 

They went all in to support him. The defense played insanely good. They squeezed out lucky games. They were overrated. 

 

Do they win a super bowl with Winston?  No.  

 

They were 3rd in yards/points in 2019, and 1st in passing yards.  However they were last in the league in turnovers.  

 

With Brady, the sack rate improved from 7% to 3.3%.  So half as many sacks.

INT rate went from 4.8% to 2.0%.  About 60% drop off in turnovers.  

TD rate went from 5.3% to 6.6%.  

Completion % went from 60.7% to 65.7%. 

AY/A went from 7.1 to 8.0.  

Drop rate increased from 3.8% to 5.3% - more drops with brady than winston. 

Broken tackles decreased from 1 every 15.9 receptions, to 1 every 24.1 receptions.  More players broke tackles with Winston than Brady.  

[boyst]

32 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Do they win a super bowl with Winston?  No.  

 

They were 3rd in yards/points in 2019, and 1st in passing yards.  However they were last in the league in turnovers.  

 

With Brady, the sack rate improved from 7% to 3.3%.  So half as many sacks.

INT rate went from 4.8% to 2.0%.  About 60% drop off in turnovers.  

TD rate went from 5.3% to 6.6%.  

Completion % went from 60.7% to 65.7%. 

AY/A went from 7.1 to 8.0.  

Drop rate increased from 3.8% to 5.3% - more drops with brady than winston. 

Broken tackles decreased from 1 every 15.9 receptions, to 1 every 24.1 receptions.  More players broke tackles with Winston than Brady.  

pt brady on a bunch of other teams and they'd have never made it though

[zevo]

By all accounts, Allen seems like a great dude and teammate. I honestly do not understand the constant hate against him and media licking their lips for him to fail. Not sure if this is because every analyst that I can think of planted their flag that he would be an enormous bust in the NFL besides Mel Kiper. Allen does and says the right things but continues to be picked apart at every opportunity. One thing I do know is that there isn't a qb Id rather have on my team over Josh Allen. There is some bias cooked in there. 

[The Jokeman]

20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re the one who made it racist first in this thread. Great work!

 

always those guys who claim everyone is too sensitive to race who are the first to bring up race. 
 

Jackson won a Heisman and was talked about not being good enough to be a qb in the nfl. Allen had a far worse resume in college yet was an easy top 10 pick. Jackson has won 70% and a mVp. He proved those idiots who questioned him as a morons. Allen has also far surpassed his expectations and become a top 3 qb in the nfl. 
 

you made it about race, 

also imagine crying about Buffalo not getting respect when we play 15 prime time games and are maybe the most popular team in commercials. Dumb take. 

You don’t understand why? And Allen gets criticized as a top 3 qb with crazy expectations. 
 

you really don’t think things would be the same for Mahomes if their careers were reversed?

Haha, this Board crapping on Lamar as much as they claim others crap on Allen. 

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

Because he would love for the Jets to have him at QB and knkws how good Josh really is.  He is as humble as any media guy you will find.  

[Success]

51 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Mahomes has earned his excuse making.. 3 SB appearances and 2 SB titles. Allen doesn’t have a resume even close to that yet.  

 

Is this golf we're talking about then?

 

Team game, Pats fan.  

 

[CincyBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

I agree.  There were two QB's from the 2018 draft who succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations and that was Lamar Jackson & Josh Allen. But it's obvious to anyone paying attention that if Allen had performed like Jackson in the playoffs he would be mercilessly attacked.  Specifically:

 

*  if Allen was 1 - 3 in the playoffs and had played average to poorly in all 4 playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting.

 

*  If Allen had gotten injured and missed critical late season and playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting.

 

 

[McBean]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:21 PM, H2o said:

I found this interesting. And of course the rest of the ESPN 🤡's yuck it up a bit later in the segment, but this has been my stance on Josh for forever. All of the idiots with an ax to grind continually spew the same crap, on their same crap shows, pandering to their same crap audience. Josh is a top 2-5 QB in this league, 5 being the absolute basement. They constantly act like he is the one costing this team W's. They don't talk about the 3 games he's led his team to a lead in the final 2 minutes, only to have McDermott's defense piss it away. No, it's his 1 INT two quarters before that which caused them to lose. Idiots. This team would have, AT THE MOST, 3 wins this year without him. At the most. Allen is not blameless. He's not perfect. But let's not act like he's not out here setting records in history of the NFL for things like total TD's, completing 68% of his passes this year, and leading the league in total TD's. 

 

 

Mic. 
 

Drop.

[Albany,n.y.]

17 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

There's nothing ridiculous about it. Compare how objectively good QBs with great stats like Allen and Cousins are criticized endlessly while a below-average one like Justin Fields is never held to the fire for poor performances and even gushed over.

 

The bias is real, despite it being a truth you find inconvenient.

To put Cousins & Allen in the same sentence is ridiculous.  Allen is a great player on the field while Cousins is only good on paper-watch him fold up against good teams some day & put away your stats.  

The only inconvenient truth is your own bias Patrickkk.  

 

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Is this golf we're talking about then?

 

Team game, Pats fan.  

 

Doesn’t matter if you like it or not. The fact is the QB gets more blame for losses and more accolades for the team success.  
 

For example, the :13 second loss the Bills had to KC. Every Non Bills fan pretty much says “wow look how awesome Mahomes is he got them in FG range in less than 13 seconds!” Hardly annyone outside of Bills fans say anything differently. 

This Mahomes in most people’s eyes has earned a mulligan for an off year and or placing the blame elsewhere. 

 

[Success]

10 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Doesn’t matter if you like it or not. The fact is the QB gets more blame for losses and more accolades for the team success.  
 

For example, the :13 second loss the Bills had to KC. Every Non Bills fan pretty much says “wow look how awesome Mahomes is he got them in FG range in less than 13 seconds!” Hardly annyone outside of Bills fans say anything differently. 

This Mahomes in most people’s eyes has earned a mulligan for an off year and or placing the blame elsewhere. 

 

 

I mentioned this to another poster on this thread: you are talking about perception.  I am talking about reality.

 

[Not Applicable]

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

To put Cousins & Allen in the same sentence is ridiculous.  Allen is a great player on the field while Cousins is only good on paper-watch him fold up against good teams some day & put away your stats.  

The only inconvenient truth is your own bias Patrickkk.  

 

Is Cousins better than Fields, yes or no? Who gets clowned on and who gets praised? Exactly, dork.

[Not Applicable]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll just keep coming with the unpopular opinions! Kelly is one of the most overrated Qbs in nfl history! He was so bad in the playoffs. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00/gamelog/post/  More ints than tds and a 72.3 rating. If you switched Marino on those absolutely loaded Bills team, we win multiple SBs. If Kelly checked his ego and ran Thurman 30 times in the first SB, they win that one.

The same Dan Marino who never won a playoff game in cold weather and was 0-3 versus Kelly in the postseason? Okay.

 

By this logic, Barry Sanders is REALLY overrated since he has an atrocious postseason resume.

[Albany,n.y.]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Is Cousins better than Fields, yes or no? Who gets clowned on and who gets praised? Exactly, dork.

Fields isn't getting praised anymore. Some clowns overrated him in preseason & have completely shut their mouths because the Bears are who the rest of us thought they were.  

How many mock drafts can you find that have the Bears not selecting a QB to replace Fields?  Virtually none! 

Comparing Cousins to anyone a lot better or a lot worse is ridiculous.  He's a paper tiger.  His on-field performance does not match his stats, as do many NFL QBs because QB stats are trash.  

 

[AlfaBill]

I place no credence in anything MSM including sports, opinions. They are worthless for the most part trying to bait people into clicks because that’s how they get paid. In the end, most if not all GMs would take Allen over ANY QB in the league right now.
And a good portion would take him over Patty as well. (not all but some )

Edited December 8, 2023 by AlfaBill

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, zevo said:

By all accounts, Allen seems like a great dude and teammate. I honestly do not understand the constant hate against him and media licking their lips for him to fail. Not sure if this is because every analyst that I can think of planted their flag that he would be an enormous bust in the NFL besides Mel Kiper. Allen does and says the right things but continues to be picked apart at every opportunity. One thing I do know is that there isn't a qb Id rather have on my team over Josh Allen. There is some bias cooked in there. 

It's BFLo hate. People in general like to pile on.

[Don Otreply]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:24 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He has amongst the worst takes on this board and I am honestly convinced he actually isn't a Bills fan and just masquerading as one here to troll.  

 

It either that or he just actually knows nothing about Football.

 

Either could be true, or even both.  

Both, 

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Never said he shouldnt be praised. Mahomes is absolutely deserving of every worshipping comment.

 

The point is that both QBs are worthy of praise and both are worthy of criticism. But what we get is 90% criticism of Allen, and 99% praise of Mahomes.

 

If winning a Super Bowl makes it so no one ever criticizes your play again, and other QBs will be only criticized until they win a Super Bowl, then the commentary and analysis isnt worth jack squat (not that it means much in the grand scheme of the world anyways).

 

Yall know how this works.  It's nothing new.  Peyton Manning received far more criticism than Brady ever did.  

 

PEYTON MANNING!  

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

The same Dan Marino who never won a playoff game in cold weather and was 0-3 versus Kelly in the postseason? Okay.

 

By this logic, Barry Sanders is REALLY overrated since he has an atrocious postseason resume.

Learn to read. Put Marino on the bills, a much, much more talented roster, we win multiple SBs.

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Since his MVP what has Lamar Jackson shown to be? An average at best passer and a phenomenal runner (at the QB position). He doesn't seem to elevate the players around him that much (which many think is the mark of a good QB). My primary example is John Brown who had better stats under Josh Allen than Lamar.  The reason I and others crap on Lamar as people want to applaud him as a runner but ignore his poor performance as a passer with respect to passing yards and TDs. which to me are what a QB is supposed to do. Toss in his inability to remain healthy inpart because he's smaller frame and taking hits both as a runner and subpar passing skills force him to take more hits than needed. 

All that to ignore that Lamar has the third best mvp odds currently. But great post. 

8 hours ago, cisco2403 said:

The very video that is in the first post kind of refutes what you are saying that there is no debate outside of here on who is better. When Greenberg says, if Allen were to land with the Chiefs and Andy Reid, the roles would be reversed. 

I mean that’s completely unprovable. Reid compare before and after Mahkmes.

 

allen is awesome but he’s not to Mahkmes yet. It’s insane to even keep discussing it at this point. And it’s hilarious that you a f like it’s magic Mahomes ended up on the chiefs in the first place. They targeted him and traded up to take him.  They wanted him badly