Has Josh Allen reached his ceiling?

[Dr.Sack]

Has Jalen Hurts reached his ceiling?

[AZSanta]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

I think you’re reading a lot into a tremendous competitor disappointed he’s not helping the team win. How do you expect a guy who throws a pick or misses an easy completion to look?  Remember all accounts have Josh unhappy with Dorsey’s game planning. How was Aaron Rodgers body language the last few years in GB? Somewhat childish, my ass. This guy leaves his guts on the field and the offense and defense to a man,would run through a wall for him. Mahomes has looked like a shell of himself this year. Do you think fans are reading into his sideline demeanor?

Again its my opinion. He is a fierce competitor no doubt. There's a difference in being a fierce competitor and handling the adversity a NFL QB goes through. I heard somewhere that Josh is seeing a sports psychologist. You and I can speculate as to why that is but it cant be a good thing. When he is mic'd up and in interviews he comes across as childish. I personally love the guy. I got home and away authentic Allen Jerseys up on my wall. There is definitely some room for him to be more mature. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

With McD here, yes. I think a good coach could get a better version out of him still. 

[Airseven]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

Has Jalen Hurts reached his ceiling?

I think so. Better than I ever thought he’d be in the pros.

[Eastport bills]

4 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

Again its my opinion. He is a fierce competitor no doubt. There's a difference in being a fierce competitor and handling the adversity a NFL QB goes through. I heard somewhere that Josh is seeing a sports psychologist. You and I can speculate as to why that is but it cant be a good thing. When he is mic'd up and in interviews he comes across as childish. I personally love the guy. I got home and away authentic Allen Jerseys up on my wall. There is definitely some room for him to be more mature. 

You “heard somewhere”he’s seeing a sports psychologist and he comes across as childish in interviews. That’s grounds for saying he’s depressed and has bad body language? Have you ever heard any pointing of fingers or anything other than taking responsibility for losses. He protects coaches( even Dorsey or Sean when he doesn’t count 11 men), players,and says he’s gotta be better. What has he ever said that’s childish. They lost some games and your searching for negatives beyond the field to hang on this guy. God forbid he misses the playoffs, you’ll be ready to trade him for draft picks. But I know, you love the guy. 

[AZSanta]

2 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

You “heard somewhere”he’s seeing a sports psychologist and he comes across as childish in interviews. That’s grounds for saying he’s depressed and has bad body language? Have you ever heard any pointing of fingers or anything other than taking responsibility for losses. He protects coaches( even Dorsey or Sean when he doesn’t count 11 men), players,and says he’s gotta be better. What has he ever said that’s childish. They lost some games and your searching for negatives beyond the field to hang on this guy. God forbid he misses the playoffs, you’ll be ready to trade him for draft picks. But I know, you love the guy. 

Look my guy its my opinion and im entitled to it. If my opinion bothers you move the hell on

[Eastport bills]

5 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

Look my guy its my opinion and im entitled to it. If my opinion bothers you move the hell on

Sorry to be so intense, it’s just I’ve lived through a lot of bad QB play between Kelly and Josh and I know the difference between a few ugly losses and psychological challenges. Truth of the matter, Dorsey and Sean have set Josh back by not allowing him to evolve into being the guy that makes all the plays without the crushing turnovers and scoring droughts. Against a highly motivated Jets defense did you see a QB who took what the defense gave him and just dominated. Did he show bad body language last week? Give him a few games with a new system and you’ll see who he is.

[CheshireCT]

On 11/23/2023 at 4:04 AM, PatsFanNH said:

Omg I am not even a Bills fan but GOD NO! He is still young and just entered his prime and he IMO doesn’t have an elite O around him. You give him 2 good WR, a good TE and he could break records. 
 

Now if you want championships, he needs a consistent Defense, a defense that can bail him out when he is just having a bad game. 

this. I would add every athlete’s ceiling is that window of the time where they are young enough to have all their athleticism, but experienced enough to know what to do with it (assuming no major injuries). For a quarterback, that’s about 10 years in. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

If so it's a pretty damn good ceiling.

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, CheshireCT said:

this. I would add every athlete’s ceiling is that window of the time where they are young enough to have all their athleticism, but experienced enough to know what to do with it (assuming no major injuries). For a quarterback, that’s about 10 years in. 

They can still be very good or even elite after that window. I mean Manning’s arm was shot and he still played well enough to win a SB with the broncos. 

[Max Fischer]

How would you even know? 🙄

[BigDingus]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:32 PM, AZSanta said:

I think he is what he is and I think we can win a Super Bowl with him playing at this level. I am just curios what others opinions are as to what they expect from him the rest of his career.

 

It's funny how many dislikes & downvotes you got, despite saying this ^^^^

 

What, are people not happy with a Super Bowl win? They NEED to be told he'll also be MVP & put up some crazy stat line we've never seen from him before? Why?

 

I don't think Josh will ever have a year statistically better than 2020. He may never have playoff numbers as good or as efficient as 2021. But if we win a Super Bowl, so what? 

 

If we haven't seen his ceiling, we've seen pretty close to it. Is he turning the ball over less? Definitely not. Is his deep passing getting better? No. He's on pace to get  more rushing TDs, so that's cool. 

 

But Josh has only finished with an above 100 passer rating once (Mahomes has only failed to do it 2 times outside of his rookie year when on the bench), and has had double digit INTs all but once (in 2019 he had 9). With 6 games left, he's 2 INTs away from his total last year, and 13 passing TDs short. 

 

So to even match last year's numbers, he'll have to average 2 passing TDs & 0.3 INTs per game. But the way things are headed, it's very possible Josh breaks his INT record this year, while having his lowest passing TD output since 2019.

[716to540]

No.

[Scott7975]

I think Josh can still improve in processing the field better and being more consistent from game to game, so no I do not think he has reached his ceiling.

[White Linen]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:14 PM, PatsFanNH said:

Well if he isn’t on the injury report for a shoulder injury the bills will get into a lot of trouble.. lol I kid.. but the great ones learn to continue begin elite even when hurt. For example look at how Mahomes adapted when he hurt his ankle a couple years back. 

 

You mean how Reid adjusted.  Just FYI, Josh has been elite when injured too.

[harryS]

Of course not.  You're basically saying he's never going to have a season in the future where we say, "This is the best he's ever played."

 

Josh has never even played under a great offensive mind yet.  Hopefully Brady proves to be one. 

[PBF81]

He's reached his ceiling under McD.  

 

It's higher with a proper coach that understands offense better.  

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by PBF81

[AZSanta]

11 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

It's funny how many dislikes & downvotes you got, despite saying this ^^^^

 

What, are people not happy with a Super Bowl win? They NEED to be told he'll also be MVP & put up some crazy stat line we've never seen from him before? Why?

 

I don't think Josh will ever have a year statistically better than 2020. He may never have playoff numbers as good or as efficient as 2021. But if we win a Super Bowl, so what? 

 

If we haven't seen his ceiling, we've seen pretty close to it. Is he turning the ball over less? Definitely not. Is his deep passing getting better? No. He's on pace to get  more rushing TDs, so that's cool. 

 

But Josh has only finished with an above 100 passer rating once (Mahomes has only failed to do it 2 times outside of his rookie year when on the bench), and has had double digit INTs all but once (in 2019 he had 9). With 6 games left, he's 2 INTs away from his total last year, and 13 passing TDs short. 

 

So to even match last year's numbers, he'll have to average 2 passing TDs & 0.3 INTs per game. But the way things are headed, it's very possible Josh breaks his INT record this year, while having his lowest passing TD output since 2019.

I know right. He is putting up great numbers now minus the ints. You say one bad thing about Josh and fans lose their minds. The weird thing is i'm not saying anything bad about him. He is what he is and that's fine. People need to get a grip on reality. So many immature posts its ridiculous.

[AZSanta]

13 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

How would you even know? 🙄

Because he is 6 years into his career and his stats have plateaued the past three years and he on pace for similar stats this year. The unfortunate thing for us Bills fans is we have at least 6 QBS in the AFC that are great and can compete with Allen. I'm not including Stroud who is becoming a stud in his rookie year

[AZSanta]

16 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Sorry to be so intense, it’s just I’ve lived through a lot of bad QB play between Kelly and Josh and I know the difference between a few ugly losses and psychological challenges. Truth of the matter, Dorsey and Sean have set Josh back by not allowing him to evolve into being the guy that makes all the plays without the crushing turnovers and scoring droughts. Against a highly motivated Jets defense did you see a QB who took what the defense gave him and just dominated. Did he show bad body language last week? Give him a few games with a new system and you’ll see who he is.

We have lived through bad QBs. I said we can win with Josh. You are right Dorsey and Mcdermott have basically ruined him this year. I want McD gone for various reasons including that. His confidence gets rattled and he makes stupid plays the rest of the game. That is concerning to me. Great QBs are able shake off bad plays during games. He implodes. It needs to be fixed.

[Luka]

6 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

Because he is 6 years into his career and his stats have plateaued the past three years and he on pace for similar stats this year. The unfortunate thing for us Bills fans is we have at least 6 QBS in the AFC that are great and can compete with Allen. I'm not including Stroud who is becoming a stud in his rookie year

 

His stats have plateaued because you can't get much better in a lot of areas of his game. I mean the kid is setting records every year, what more can you ask for? The issue is we are seeing another historic fumbling of opportunities from this franchise. Allen unfortunately has an excellent chance of being the next Dan Marino, a generational talent wasted by a middling franchise.

[AZSanta]

1 minute ago, Luka said:

 

His stats have plateaued because you can't get much better in a lot of areas of his game. I mean the kid is setting records every year, what more can you ask for? The issue is we are seeing another historic fumbling of opportunities from this franchise. Allen unfortunately has an excellent chance of being the next Dan Marino, a generational talent wasted by a middling franchise.

There you go. I agree 100%. He is not a kid anymore, though. He is 27. If Josh was in the NFC he'd probably have been to a super bowl or 2. We are very unlucky to have Burrows , Mahommes, Lamar, Tua in our conference to name a few. I'm afraid this might be another Dom Hasek situation. We had the best goalie on the planet and couldn't win it all because of poor management. Go Bills!

[Luka]

1 minute ago, AZSanta said:

There you go. I agree 100%. He is not a kid anymore, though. He is 27. If Josh was in the NFC he'd probably have been to a super bowl or 2. We are very unlucky to have Burrows , Mahommes, Lamar, Tua in our conference to name a few. I'm afraid this might be another Dom Hasek situation. We had the best goalie on the planet and couldn't win it all because of poor management. Go Bills!

 

Well I'm 40, so to me, he's a kid lol. The power in the conference is Brady's fault. A lot of teams spent a lot of time building a franchise that could beat Brady and the Pats and by the time most of them caught up, he was retired and the Pats were an empty husk. We've beaten Lamar and we've stomped Tua repeatedly. We can beat Mahomes in the regular season and we can't overcome the mighty Joe Burrow.

 

We don't lose those games because of Allen typically. It's the rest of the team. We play a defensive style that lends itself to being carved up by a good QB and it's sad that that's the reason Allen takes so much flack. Unlike baseball, you can throw a perfect game and still lose in the NFL and it's happened to Allen more than once. That's why his confidence is shaken because again, what more does he need to do? Does he have to play linebacker as well? Safety? Call the defense? 

 

On a complete, well coached team, Allen has more than one Super Bowl ring at this point in his career, no matter which conference he plays in. 

[Eastport bills]

50 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

We have lived through bad QBs. I said we can win with Josh. You are right Dorsey and Mcdermott have basically ruined him this year. I want McD gone for various reasons including that. His confidence gets rattled and he makes stupid plays the rest of the game. That is concerning to me. Great QBs are able shake off bad plays during games. He implodes. It needs to be fixed.

You watched him play at a Pro Bowl level, winning 3division titles and going to 2 conference finals if Sean didn’t betray Bills fans by choking away “13 seconds “, and winning 6 games despite piss poor play calling and up there with league leaders in TDs.  He was outspoken in his dissatisfaction with Dorsey’s game planning and without a ground game, screen game and discouraged from QB running could you understand being upset “. Rattled, making stupid plays,”would you classify Mahomes, Herbert or Prescott in their statistically poor games resulting in losses that way. Give our franchise savior an opportunity to play with a better a play caller. Just remember if Sean counts to 12 against Denver and his defense stops NE on their last drive, we’re 8 and 3 and # 1 in conference.

[AZSanta]

18 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

You watched him play at a Pro Bowl level, winning 3division titles and going to 2 conference finals if Sean didn’t betray Bills fans by choking away “13 seconds “, and winning 6 games despite piss poor play calling and up there with league leaders in TDs.  He was outspoken in his dissatisfaction with Dorsey’s game planning and without a ground game, screen game and discouraged from QB running could you understand being upset “. Rattled, making stupid plays,”would you classify Mahomes, Herbert or Prescott in their statistically poor games resulting in losses that way. Give our franchise savior an opportunity to play with a better a play caller. Just remember if Sean counts to 12 against Denver and his defense stops NE on their last drive, we’re 8 and 3 and # 1 in conference.

I can think of 3 games off the top of my head where his bonehead head scratching plays has cost us the game, Vikings last year, Jets opening game this year and Broncos game this year. There are more but i can't think of at this moment. Mahommes is the toughest Qb mentally and pysically. There is no comparing him and Allen. If you havent watched the Netflix series Quarterback. I highly recommed it. Mahommes is an absolute beast. Allen is not in his league. Sorry

[90sBills]

13 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

Mahomes is the toughest Qb mentally and pysically. There is no comparing him and Allen. If you havent watched the Netflix series Quarterback. I highly recommed it. Mahommes is an absolute beast. Allen is not in his league. Sorry

There are some fans that think Mahomes is not in Allen’s league. They think Allen’s full potential is held back by coaching, teammates, Buffalo’s weather etc. They theorized that with the right coaching and talent Allen would string multiple Superbowls together and be the best qb to ever live. Which is the pedestal they put him on so any posts that insinuate anything less will be attacked as trolling. 

[AZSanta]

5 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

There are some fans that think Mahomes is not in Allen’s league. They think Allen’s full potential is held back by coaching, teammates, Buffalo’s weather etc. They theorized that with the right coaching and talent Allen would string multiple Superbowls together and be the best qb to ever live. Which is the pedestal they put him on so any posts that insinuate anything less will be attacked as trolling. 

There is potential for him to be better. A new offensive coaching staff is probably the biggest factor to that happening. Time will tell. I hope I am eating crow in a few years and Allen can get it all together and get us a long overdue Super Bowl. We are starved for a championship. We all want Allen to  be the best to ever play. I'm okay with him being top 10 or 20.

[Since1981]

I’ve always said 17 is a top 5 QB. He keeps Bills in AFC Olympic Medal round. His coach, O structure wins the Gold or out of the medals. 
 

Lamar, Jalen, Tua, Brock are not better QBs but they have better O structure 

[90sBills]

26 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

I'm okay with him being top 10 or 20.

This low really? I don’t give him passes like a lot of fans here but he’s top 3 in my book. Great enough to get the team a superbowl if things fall into place. 

[RousseauRage]

hope not, cuz if he can't fix his dumbass turnover problem we'll never win anything that matters with that albatross of a contract!

[Eastport bills]

57 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

I can think of 3 games off the top of my head where his bonehead head scratching plays has cost us the game, Vikings last year, Jets opening game this year and Broncos game this year. There are more but i can't think of at this moment. Mahommes is the toughest Qb mentally and pysically. There is no comparing him and Allen. If you havent watched the Netflix series Quarterback. I highly recommed it. Mahommes is an absolute beast. Allen is not in his league. Sorry

You’ve  made what you think is a good argument. When you bring up last year’s games and any games with Dorsey, as you mentioned he was not a NFL caliber OC, it proves you’re just a hater who doesn’t appreciate that he’s resurrected the franchise. I didn’t compare him to Mahomes, only pointed out . you’re much more lenient in your assessment in the games he played like crap(Denver, Detroit and Philly). Josh gets called childish,boneheaded,costing us the game. But of course you cover your ass by saying “you love him”. Keep watching those documentaries, pretty soon you’ll be comparing Josh to Cousins. I won’t be dignifying this pointless exercise anymore.

[AZSanta]

Just now, Eastport bills said:

You’ve  made what you think is a good argument. When you bring up last year’s games and any games with Dorsey, as you mentioned he was not a NFL caliber OC, it proves you’re just a hater who doesn’t appreciate that he’s resurrected the franchise. I didn’t compare him to Mahomes, only pointed out . you’re much more lenient in your assessment in the games he played like crap(Denver, Detroit and Philly). Josh gets called childish,boneheaded,costing us the game. But of course you cover your ass by saying “you love him”. Keep watching those documentaries, pretty soon you’ll be comparing Josh to Cousins. I won’t be dignifying this pointless exercise anymore.

See your got me all twisted bro. Josh is a great QB. Maybe a hall of famer. There are areas of his game that need improvement. I was praising the Bills for drafting him. I call it how I see it. I am happy we are perennial SB contenders and he is the main reason for it. . There are maybe 3 QBs in the NFL id rather have. So please see it for it is and not what your heart tells you. Good day sir. 

[Eastport bills]

8 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

See your got me all twisted bro. Josh is a great QB. Maybe a hall of famer. There are areas of his game that need improvement. I was praising the Bills for drafting him. I call it how I see it. I am happy we are perennial SB contenders and he is the main reason for it. . There are maybe 3 QBs in the NFL id rather have. So please see it for it is and not what your heart tells you. Good day sir. 

Do you acknowledge that in the last 3 games Mahomes has Zero points in the 2nd half. He’s got the same turnovers as Josh and everyone objectively knows their defense is responsible for their record. Have you ever heard, “boneheaded, childish, responsible for losses” applied to him. He’s got Andy friggin Reid, a top 3 defense and the AFC west schedule. Against good defenses he’s been horrible. I’d like to give him Ken Dorsey for a few years and Sean, a poor game time decision maker, to run the show.

[AZSanta]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

Do you acknowledge that in the last 3 games Mahomes has Zero points in the 2nd half. He’s got the same turnovers as Josh and everyone objectively knows their defense is responsible for their record. Have you ever heard, “boneheaded, childish, responsible for losses” applied to him. He’s got Andy friggin Reid, a top 3 defense and the AFC west schedule. Against good defenses he’s been horrible. I’d like to give him Ken Dorsey for a few years and Sean, a poor game time decision maker, to run the show.

An argument can be made that Josh might have at least 1 Super Bowl if he was on the Chiefs. Mahommes is next level one of a kind though.

[Max Fischer]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:57 AM, AZSanta said:

Because he is 6 years into his career and his stats have plateaued the past three years and he on pace for similar stats this year. The unfortunate thing for us Bills fans is we have at least 6 QBS in the AFC that are great and can compete with Allen. I'm not including Stroud who is becoming a stud in his rookie year

 

This makes no sense. So Josh has "plateaued" into a great season every year. Ok, this is not a problem.  Now figure out how not to lose three All-Pro level players on defense. 

 

 

 

 

[LarryMadman]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:01 PM, AZSanta said:

See your got me all twisted bro. Josh is a great QB. Maybe a hall of famer. There are areas of his game that need improvement. I was praising the Bills for drafting him. I call it how I see it. I am happy we are perennial SB contenders and he is the main reason for it. . There are maybe 3 QBs in the NFL id rather have. So please see it for it is and not what your heart tells you. Good day sir. 

Dude is the best QB in the league, first ballot HOF and you're happy if he is one of the 10-20 best in the league....

 

Lol.........might wanna make a new eye appt.....haters gonna hate

[CheshireCT]

On 11/26/2023 at 2:43 AM, PatsFanNH said:

They can still be very good or even elite after that window. I mean Manning’s arm was shot and he still played well enough to win a SB with the broncos. 

Absolutely

[Drew21PA]

Stop it - dude is consistently unreal

 

no - he has not he is only getting better 

[TSOL]

Josh Allen is a quarterback who is more than good enough to win a Superbowl. But like any quarterback, he needs a Superbowl quality roster around him.