Silver linings with the Injuries?

[BuffaloBaumer]

The more and more I am listening to the experts, the more our depth is looking like they just might be ok in the end. Whether that is this year, or next year, the future looks pretty darn bright for a youth movement. With Rousseau out, and Von barely playing, AJ stepped into the spotlight bigtime. THis Jonathan kid is also getting really good reviews and could end up being a steal on the edge. 

 

The loss of Jones is a massive one in every way but let's see what Ford can do on the run stuffing game. Ed Oliver has broken through and the Oline is better than we thought when the season began. As long as Benford can come back, and there are no more injuries at that position, the pass rush should offset the hit the secondary took. 

 

It will be interesting to see how Bernard does without Milano so that is a big question mark. Can Dodson step up into a major role? Hopefully Von can get back to 100% by the time the playoffs start and if that happens, the defense should be just fine. If Buffalo has to take a wild card and go on the road for a game, so be it. I think they are still taking the division and the next 3 games will be perfect to get the newbies settled. 

 

Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

 

 

[Special K]

Elam was inactive weeks 1-4 for a reason......his performance in week 5 was a visual representation of that reason.

 

There’s no reason to think the D can’t be serviceable, but the chances of stopping the top offenses without Milano, Jones, White are not good.

[stevestojan]

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

[transplantbillsfan]

Buffalo got depth this offseason for a reason, but the Milano loss is devastating just because of how unique he is as a player.

 

With that said, it's important to note that along with playing most of that game without Jones and Milano, we also played most of it without Von, who was on a pitch count. Added to that, we were without Rousseau and Benford, both of whom we clearly missed.

 

Before the loss of Tre last week and then Jones and Milano this week I would have said this team was the best Ds in the NFL and had the potential to be one of the best Ds in history--sorry Jets. Now as long as we get Benford, Groot and Von back healthy within the next couple weeks (is anyone really worried about the Giants???), I still think we can manage to be a top 5 or at least a top 10 D. As much criticism as McDermott is getting right now for the flight decision to London, he’s been a massive upgrade over Frazier calling the D. Anyone arguing otherwise is blind.

 

Add in the fact that AJE suddenly is playing with his hair on fire, Oliver looks fantastic, and our back 7 still at least has Po and Hyde to help Bernard with communication and I think we'll be fine... just PLEASE GOD NO MORE INJURIES!!!!

 

Genuinely curious what McDermott does at LB. That's obviously worrisome now.

 

But a Josh Allen helmed team with a top 5-10 offense will be just fine. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Bills signed Floyd, Ford, and Rapp for insurance purposes. Losing Jones sucks, but that DL is playing lights out right now. Poona Ford/Tim Settle are going to have plenty of 1-1 situations, they only need to be solid with Oliver, Floyd, Groot and AJ playing at an elite level. Shaq and Jordan haven’t been slouches either.

 

Milano is a huge loss, but Dorian Williams was a 3rd round pick and OLB doesn’t have the same heavy responsibilities that MLB has if we see Dodson.

 

CB is a concern, but Dane Jackson is a proven capable CB and Christian Benford looks to be the same kind of player. 
 

If the DL can maintain their elite play it will take the pressure off the very young LBs, CBs, and aged Safeties.

[Jauronimo]

There are none to be found.

[transplantbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, Special K said:

Elam was inactive weeks 1-4 for a reason......his performance in week 5 was a visual representation of that reason.

 

There’s no reason to think the D can’t be serviceable, but the chances of stopping the top offenses without Milano, Jones, White are not good.

 

1 minute ago, stevestojan said:

All bull#### aside, I reallllly want to agree with the part that “Elam cannot possibly be this bad.” 
 

I mean there are draft busts, but at the corner position you need speed and ball awareness. Seems like those are fairly (in the grand scheme) easy to identify how they would translate from college to pro. I’m not saying everyone will be the next Rod Woodson, but my god, he literally looks like he played the position in JV and he’s our 11th option at his position; playing emergency CB. 
 

I’d argue “maybe he’s been hurt and the team is hiding it” but no. 
 

Maybe it’s the NFL version of the yips? But those generally come after you’ve done anything really well. 
 

I can’t think of a worse first round pick right now. Williams? Losman maybe? 

 

@HappyDays posted an All-22 thread with Joe Marino's analysis of the game. This is a guy who scouted college athletes for years with The Draft Network so he knows his stuff.

 

He said Elam wasn't as bad as he looked and the issues are correctable.

[Process]

We still have one of the best d lines in the league. 

 

The secondary is what concerns me. 

 

Hyde and Poyer are slow and washed up. That gets masked with a dominant front 7. I'm not sure we have that anymore.

 

And we have ZERO CB depth. As of right now we are one injury away (Benford) from having Micah Hyde covering a teams best WR on the most critical play of the game. 

[zow2]

You want to be playing your best football from Thanksgiving/Dec and on...  Hopefully this is the rough patch for the Bills with some close losses and injuries.  Then things settle down when the stakes are highest and they play great.  That is the silver lining for me if it works out.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Also, when Tre White popped his Achilles, he was announced the next day as out for season.

 

That hasn’t happened yet for Jones OR Milano, so hold out hope as we wait for the MRI. I get they likely are out for the year, but there is a chance they aren’t. Surgery doesn’t necessarily mean season ending. 
 

I’m an optimistic guy, you all know this. 

[muppy]

silver lining?  My sarcastic answer is we fans need more "character building"  aka learning how to deal with disappointment.

 

SMH my real answer is zippo NADA. 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by muppy

[Matt_In_NH]

AJ is in his last year but it is good for Dorian Williams and Elam (if there is any chance with him).  Kingsley Jonathan is probably part of the Bills longer term plans.   Lawson, Floyd, Epenesa are all on the last year of their deals.....they can be resigned but the Bills will continue to have challenges with money moving forward.

[SCBills]

We're getting to a point where the season ending injuries on defense have GOT to stop.. That being said, if we can get to the end of the season with:

 

Von/Floyd

Poona/Settle

Oliver/Phillips

Rousseau/AJE

 

Bernard/Dodson

Williams/Dodson

Johnson/Neal

 

Benford/Elam

Jackson/Elam

 

Poyer/Rapp

Hyde/Rapp

 

That is still a Championship caliber defense.   There is still the hope Milano and/or Jones can get back for the Playoffs.

 

If 1T is an issue.  If OLB is an issue.  If CB depth is an issue.  The trade deadline doesn't pass for a few more weeks.  We have a couple weeks to see if Poona Ford and Dorian Williams can be the in-house answers.  

 

Elam is not as bad as he showed in London.  He was arguable our best defensive player in the playoffs last year.  That said.. his performance, in a weird London setting, was beyond poor.  If that's the Elam we now have due to his lack of development, mental issues and/or struggles in McD's system... a move needs to be made, because we cannot have that on one side of the field.  That's a fatal flaw in the defense. 

 

The youth movement is real.  The Bills will have to decide after this season whether or not they're ready to embrace it.  Embracing it likely means this is the last year White, Hyde and Poyer are on the Bills roster. 

[Beast]

The front 4 is really going to have to get after it the rest of the season to get to where we want to be.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I’m not happy with where we are right now. Let me put that out there first so what I say doesn’t sound insane.

 

We are old and slow on defense. Eventually one of two things has to happen here….we win the Super Bowl, or we start to get younger on defense. These injuries don’t help. There’s no possible way to be happy about your better players being out. The guys behind them are on the bench for a reason….The one nice thing is we might get younger and faster here. If this coach is smart enough to play 43/42, we are going to be scary fast at LB. We are going to have some growing pains but those guys run with their hair on fire and will make plays. Not saying Milano isn’t fast but Williams moves like an animal. I was very excited to see him run around out there but he eventually was benched. Give the kid a chance.

 

Also on the backend, our secondary is old. A few younger guys back there might really give us a different dynamic. Guys with fresh legs might make a big difference against the better teams in the AFC. A lack of speed on the backend has really hurt us in the playoffs. An injection of youth back there might end up being a blessing in disguise. Poyer and White both were on the back 9 here, nobody wants to see it but having a few young guys get in there might close some passing windows.

 

The interior Dlineman being out is unfortunate but we went out and got Ford. He’d be a guy we’d all be asking for in a trade right now, we already gave him here so it might be ok. Plus if there is 1 thing we have over invested in, it’s Dline. It’s almost too much. If we can’t absorb a loss in there, then we have team construction issues.

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

@HappyDays posted an All-22 thread with Joe Marino's analysis of the game. This is a guy who scouted college athletes for years with The Draft Network so he knows his stuff.

 

He said Elam wasn't as bad as he looked and the issues are correctable.

how does Joe Marino know what’s correctable with Elam? Hadn’t the staff been trying to correct him?  I don’t get this

[JohnNord]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The more and more I am listening to the experts, the more our depth is looking like they just might be ok in the end. Whether that is this year, or next year, the future looks pretty darn bright for a youth movement. With Rousseau out, and Von barely playing, AJ stepped into the spotlight bigtime. THis Jonathan kid is also getting really good reviews and could end up being a steal on the edge. 

 

The loss of Jones is a massive one in every way but let's see what Ford can do on the run stuffing game. Ed Oliver has broken through and the Oline is better than we thought when the season began. As long as Benford can come back, and there are no more injuries at that position, the pass rush should offset the hit the secondary took. 

 

It will be interesting to see how Bernard does without Milano so that is a big question mark. Can Dodson step up into a major role? Hopefully Von can get back to 100% by the time the playoffs start and if that happens, the defense should be just fine. If Buffalo has to take a wild card and go on the road for a game, so be it. I think they are still taking the division and the next 3 games will be perfect to get the newbies settled. 

 

Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

 

 

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I completely see what you’re saying it’s been nice to see players like Bernard, Rosseau, Benford and a few others step up.    The only silver lining is that it gives new players some important reps.  
 

The problem is that 2023 is likely the final shot that the “core” Bills players will have to win it all.  I see a scenario where the Bills could be without familiar faces like Gabe, AJ, Poyer, Hyde, and the DL depth (Shaq, Phillips, Poona).  Plus we don’t know how Tre White will bounce back from his second major injury. 
 

The team was built to compete for a SB in 2023, and these injuries make it so much harder, but we have to have hope that Josh and the offense can overcome. 

 

great thoughtfful answer.with a much more positive spin than mine. I agree with all of this

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

The front 4 is really going to have to get after it the rest of the season to get to where we want to be.

Thankfully, the front 4 isn’t just 4 who have been playing at an incredible level 

[MJS]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

 Lastly, Elam cannot possibly be this bad, he just can't. They threw him into a no win situation and that was a bad coaching decision. I would start him again vs the Giants and put him on a very short leash. Get him some confidence and hopefully Buffalo gets a big lead and does not have to worry about it. 

It wasn't a bad coaching decision. Throw him to the wolves and let him scratch and claw his way to victory.

 

You don't get babysat in the NFL. You are facing supreme talents week in and week out. Either you rise up to the challenge, or you don't.

 

Leadership and coaching is key. They have to build him up, show confidence in him, and help him move on from mistakes, all while reinforcing technique and scheme.

 

Elam is talented. He can do it. Don't give him a short leash. Give him a LONG leash. Get him experience now so that he can be proficient later in the year and in the playoffs.

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

how does Joe Marino know what’s correctable with Elam? Hadn’t the staff been trying to correct him?  I don’t get this

Do you think the staff think he is hopeless and a lost cause? I highly doubt it.