Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

and who reimburses the Palestinians for their destroyed homes and biz's?

 

Hamas.

[Tiberius]

34 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

For those that remain it would be permanent occupation but they would have the right to leave into any country that would take them. If there was any solution of two states I would be happy with it but at this point it seems apparent that the Palestinians have no interest in allowing the Israelis to live peacefully. 

Who is the they in your statement? Every country in the Middle East has expelled them which is why they are stuck in Israel. 

Permanent occupation, or just a land grab then. Ok 

50 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I expect there is a typo in this.

I think the author may have meant 500 kilometers in the range suggestion. It is a Scud ancestor.

500 meters is useless, unless you want to blow up you neighbors house, and with the size or the warhead, you'd likely get fragged by the blast.

 

Hey, good catch! I welcome people pointing out mistakes. Others don't 

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Hamas.

But they will be "destroyed" 

 

Seeing how Israel has not reimbursed Pals for land taken--or still being taken--, I guess they just have to deal with it, right? 

[Orlando Tim]

16 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

and who reimburses the Palestinians for their destroyed homes and biz's?

Is that really a concern to you? I am trying to have the least amount of lives lost and you are worried about the value of home. 

[Tiberius]

37 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

 Every country in the Middle East has expelled them which is why they are stuck in Israel. 

Sounds like how Europe and the United States rejected Jews, so they ended up in Palestine 

[Orlando Tim]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Sounds like how Europe and the United States rejected Jews, so they ended up in Palestine 

You are hopelessly ignorant. Explains why you think blacks in 1910 and 2010 in America had similar situations.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

43 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Is that really a concern to you? I am trying to have the least amount of lives lost and you are worried about the value of home. 

how bout this: we give the Israeli's mississippi or some other shitehole southern state.  The palestinians move to where Israel is....btw,  doesn't matter my concern.  It's the Palestinians who will remain "concerned".

Edited November 4, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said:

For those that remain it would be permanent occupation but they would have the right to leave into any country that would take them. If there was any solution of two states I would be happy with it but at this point it seems apparent that the Palestinians have no interest in allowing the Israelis to live peacefully. 

Who is the they in your statement? Every country in the Middle East has expelled them which is why they are stuck in Israel. 

The "Arabs" as in Fergy's quote.

I posted a list of Arab countries who have expelled them last week, and it's pretty much all of them.

22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

how bout this: we give the Israeli's mississippi or some other shitehole southern state.  The palestinians move to where Israel is....btw,  doesn't matter my concern.  It's the Palestinians who will remain "concerned".

 

The days of any removal of the Israelis from their land are over.

Absent extermination, which has been tried before, it will never happen. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, sherpa said:

The "Arabs" as in Fergy's quote.

I posted a list of Arab countries who have expelled them last week, and it's pretty much all of them.

 

The days of any removal of the Israelis from their land are over.

Absent extermination, which has been tried before, it will never happen. 

no it won't happen.  What do u think should?  I say Biden needs to call for a ceasefire yesterday and then a middle east council should be formed to establish a Palestinian state

[sherpa]

7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

no it won't happen.  What do u think should?  I say Biden needs to call for a ceasefire yesterday and then a middle east council should be formed to establish a Palestinian state

 

I don't think you have an accurate view of what is possible, and especially Biden's ability to influence this.

In fact, I don't think they take Biden seriously. That is not to say that the US doe not have influence, just not as much as if we had competent leadership.

His history re foreign policy is abysmal.

I pointed that out in a response to you a few weeks ago when you suggested the US jawbone Israel.

 

I listen to daily interviews with the ex Israeli Ambassador to the US. He is adamant in his claim that there is a misconception in the US of the Israeli attitude and view of how to respond to this barbarism. They are intent on eliminating Hamas from the Gaza.

If Hezbollah gets involved, Oh well.

If Iran gets "directly" involved so be it. I think they view a direct conflict with Iran as absolutely inevitable as things now stand.

 

To answer your question, there needs to emerge an Arab or host of Arab nation leadership that understands the reality of the need to cease trying to eliminate them, and identifies Iran as the poison behind all this and joins against them diplomatically, if not militarily.

If someone like that steps forward, and forms a coalition of like minded Arab states that desires a two state solution which does not involve ceasing existing Israeli land, something positive could happen.

 

That isn't on the horizon yet. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I don't think you have an accurate view of what is possible, and especially Biden's ability to influence this.

In fact, I don't think they take Biden seriously. That is not to say that the US doe not have influence, just not as much as if we had competent leadership.

His history re foreign policy is abysmal.

I pointed that out in a response to you a few weeks ago when you suggested the US jawbone Israel.

 

I listen to daily interviews with the ex Israeli Ambassador to the US. He is adamant in his claim that there is a misconception in the US of the Israeli attitude and view of how to respond to this barbarism. They are intent on eliminating Hamas from the Gaza.

If Hezbollah gets involved, Oh well.

If Iran gets "directly" involved so be it. I think they view a direct conflict with Iran as absolutely inevitable as things now stand.

 

To answer your question, there needs to emerge an Arab or host of Arab nation leadership that understands the reality of the need to cease trying to eliminate them, and identifies Iran as the poison behind all this and joins against them diplomatically, if not militarily.

If someone like that steps forward, and forms a coalition of like minded Arab states that desires a two state solution which does not involve ceasing existing Israeli land, something positive could happen.

 

That isn't on the horizon yet. 

do u think we should attack iran w those big warships?  will that help?   Also, if Biden calls for ceasefire, it helps him politically regardless of whether Netena@$hole listens....

Edited November 4, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[B-Man]

 

 

How do you know Hamas is on the ropes as Israeli forces continue to encircle Northern Gaza? Because they are making offers like this. 

 

According to a new report, the terrorist government has offered to release all the civilian hostages it took on October 7th in exchange for just a five-day pause in hostilities.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/03/blinken-israel-visit-gaza-hamas-war/

 

 

It's not known exactly how connected the underground Hamas array is, but given the difficulty and expense of building tunnels, it is likely that the northern portions do not connect directly with the southern portions. That means that the clock is ticking on Hamas fighters now stuck in Northern Gaza. IDF troops are methodically making their way through the area, and it's just a matter of time before each and every tunnel is discovered and destroyed. 

 

A five-day pause would give Hamas the cover to exit those tunnels and retrench in the South, where most of the civilians are now located. In other words, it would simply play into the hands of terrorists who use women and children as human shields, causing even more death and suffering in the long run. 

 

 

 

 

Further, Hamas is also trying to smuggle its fighters across the border into Egypt where they would presumably find safety from Israeli strikes. 

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/11/04/hamas-cries-uncle-makes-desperate-hostage-offer-n2165899

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

How do you know Hamas is on the ropes as Israeli forces continue to encircle Northern Gaza? Because they are making offers like this. 

 

According to a new report, the terrorist government has offered to release all the civilian hostages it took on October 7th in exchange for just a five-day pause in hostilities.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/03/blinken-israel-visit-gaza-hamas-war/

 

 

It's not known exactly how connected the underground Hamas array is, but given the difficulty and expense of building tunnels, it is likely that the northern portions do not connect directly with the southern portions. That means that the clock is ticking on Hamas fighters now stuck in Northern Gaza. IDF troops are methodically making their way through the area, and it's just a matter of time before each and every tunnel is discovered and destroyed. 

 

A five-day pause would give Hamas the cover to exit those tunnels and retrench in the South, where most of the civilians are now located. In other words, it would simply play into the hands of terrorists who use women and children as human shields, causing even more death and suffering in the long run. 

 

 

 

 

Further, Hamas is also trying to smuggle its fighters across the border into Egypt where they would presumably find safety from Israeli strikes. 

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/11/04/hamas-cries-uncle-makes-desperate-hostage-offer-n2165899

cmon B man get off the sidelines.  is trump still your guy?

[sherpa]

9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

do u think we should attack iran w those big warships?  will that help?   Also, if Biden calls for ceasefire, it helps him politically regardless of whether Netena@$hole listens....

 

Biden has no authority or leverage to call for a ceasefire, and it would not be listened to, and shouldn't be.

This is about Israel's existence.

In addition, in my view, the worst thing in the long term is to "help him politically."

You may not agree, (and keep Trump out of it), he should be long gone from the US foreign policy landscape for the betterment of the world.

 

To your question, I don't think we should attack Iran unless they do something egregious re Israel or our troops and sailors.

 

The best thing that could happen is that the sane, Iranian population gets rid of the existing Caliphate, and join the civilized world that is not getting messages from Allah.

They have a great culture and would be most welcome.

[BillStime]

 

[Justice]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Biden has no authority or leverage to call for a ceasefire, and it would not be listened to, and shouldn't be.

This is about Israel's existence.

In addition, in my view, the worst thing in the long term is to "help him politically."

You may not agree, (and keep Trump out of it), he should be long gone from the US foreign policy landscape for the betterment of the world.

 

To your question, I don't think we should attack Iran unless they do something egregious re Israel or our troops and sailors.

 

The best thing that could happen is that the sane, Iranian population gets rid of the existing Caliphate, and join the civilized world that is not getting messages from Allah.

They have a great culture and would be most welcome.

Lol yeah he’s just a paycheck for them. A limitless credit card that doesn’t have to be repaid. 
 

6 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

For those that remain it would be permanent occupation but they would have the right to leave into any country that would take them. If there was any solution of two states I would be happy with it but at this point it seems apparent that the Palestinians have no interest in allowing the Israelis to live peacefully. 

Who is the they in your statement? Every country in the Middle East has expelled them which is why they are stuck in Israel. 

I’m all for a one state solution. Israel will never ever allow that. You should know that though. The status quo will never work and this is what Israel wants. They’re content with the situation. Don’t let them fool you. 
 

Once upon a time Jewish people were expelled and weren’t wanted anywhere too. That don’t make it right. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Justice

[sherpa]

8 minutes ago, Justice said:

Lol yeah he’s just a paycheck for them. A limitless credit card that doesn’t have to be repaid. 
 

I’m all for a one state solution. Israel will never ever allow that. You should know that though. The status quo will never work and this is what Israel wants. They’re content with the situation. Don’t let them fool you. 
 

Once upon a time Jewish people were expelled and weren’t wanted anywhere too. That don’t make it right. 

 

What exactly do you mean by a "one state solution"?

For historical accuracy, the Jewish people have been expelled far more than once.

[Justice]

5 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

What exactly do you mean by a "one state solution"?

For historical accuracy, the Jewish people have been expelled far more than once.

Israel. Equal rights to everyone.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Justice

[Tiberius]

6 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

You are hopelessly ignorant.  

What? Jews were not hated, like the Palestianians now,  in many countries? Do you know any history at all? Ever hear of the Holocaust? Pogroms? 

[sherpa]

3 minutes ago, Justice said:

Israel. Equal rights to everyone.

 

I'm intrigued

How is it ever possible to have a "one state solution" in Israel, when one group insists the other has no right to exist?

"Welcome to my neighborhood, and you have no right to exist."

 

In addition, while you point out the contributions of the US to Israel, you don't mention Iran's complete funding and support of not only Hamas, but the Islamic world's hatred of Israel, down to and including grammar school hatred indoctrination.

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

some other shitehole southern state

 

I lobe how so many "liberals" have a Yankee superiority complex.  I live with one. Its gross.  And please tell me you were not one of ones slobbering mad when President Trump called other countries ***** hole countries.

[Westside]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I lobe how so many "liberals" have a Yankee superiority complex.  I live with one. Its gross.  And please tell me you were not one of ones slobbering mad when President Trump called other countries ***** hole countries.

He’s a hypocrite, of course he was. 

[Justice]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm intrigued

How is it ever possible to have a "one state solution" in Israel, when one group insists the other has no right to exist?

"Welcome to my neighborhood, and you have no right to exist."

 

In addition, while you point out the contributions of the US to Israel, you don't mention Iran's complete funding and support of not only Hamas, but the Islamic world's hatred of Israel, down to and including grammar school hatred indoctrination.

Do I really need to? It’s kind of like saying one plus one equals two. Difference here is the US and Israel act all high and mighty. 

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Justice said:

 

I’m all for a one state solution. Israel will never ever allow that. You should know that though. The status quo will never work and this is what Israel wants. They’re content with the situation. Don’t let them fool you. 
 

Israel not wanting people who are openly calling for their extermination to live next door is actually a pretty easy thing to understand. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I lobe how so many "liberals" have a Yankee superiority complex.  I live with one. Its gross.  And please tell me you were not one of ones slobbering mad when President Trump called other countries ***** hole countries.

I ♥️ Virginia.  Fav place in the world.

[reddogblitz]

14 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I ♥️ Virginia.  Fav place in the world.

 

I was stationed VA for a while when I was in the Marines.  I liked it.  But It's would NEVER call Mississippi a ***** hole state.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

16 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I was stationed VA for a while when I was in the Marines.  I liked it.  But It's would NEVER call Mississippi a ***** hole state.

Fair enough.  I would never call an impoverished country a #####hole country.  But that's me....I lived in Louisiana as a kid for a couple years.  Hooker had a big plant in Taft, La.. Was their 1st year of integration.  Not great.  Never been to Mississippi but I think it's the poorest state, so they're linked.  Thank you for your service!

Edited November 4, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Andy1]

 

[JDHillFan]

They couldn’t spell let’s go Brandon. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

How is it ever possible to have a "one state solution" in Israel, when one group insists the other has no right to exist?

"Welcome to my neighborhood, and you have no right to exist."

When 1 group insists "Welcome to my neighborhood.  I'm taking your house and subjugating you..."

 

I get it.  Israel is a strategic, military ally.  Palestine is not.  Humanism does matter esp to our reputation and other alliances...

23 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

They couldn’t spell let’s go Brandon. 

Politically, he must publicly request a cease fire, now.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Fair enough.  I would never call an impoverished country a #####hole country.  But that's me....I lived in Louisiana as a kid for a couple years.  Hooker had a big plant in Taft, La.. Was their 1st year of integration.  Not great.  Never been to Mississippi but I think it's the poorest state, so they're linked.  Thank you for your service!

 

You're welcome. It was an honor.

 

I would never call a country a ***** hole country.

 

I would also NEVER call a state I had never been to full of fellow Americans a ***** hole state because they are poor.  Seems elitist and hypocritical to do so. But that's just me.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why there will never be peace... Why the hatred will now carry on to the next generation. 

 

The bullied have now become the bullies:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-film-themselves-abusing-humiliating-west-bank-palestinians/?utm_campaign=most_popular&utm_source=website&utm_medium=article_end&utm_content=4

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois

[Tiberius]

5 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why there will never be peace... Why the hatred will now carry on to the next generation. 

 

The bullied have now become the bullies:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-film-themselves-abusing-humiliating-west-bank-palestinians/?utm_campaign=most_popular&utm_source=website&utm_medium=article_end&utm_content=4

 

 

Let's send them more money! I don't think the Arab world is angry enough at us yet...

[Andy1]

For anyone interested in learning the history of peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel, this documentary describes the history of that process. Whenever peace was close, extremists on either side would sabotage it with violent actions. We seem so far removed from those times now. 

 

 

[TSOL]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Let's send them more money! I don't think the Arab world is angry enough at us yet...

 

 

Consider the way the Arab world treats women before you cheerlead for them please. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, TSOL said:

Consider the way the Arab world treats women before you cheerlead for them please. 

 

And LGBTQ+ and Jews.  But it's for them they've been told to cheerlead...

[B-Man]

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with hoping for a two-state solution in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. In fact, for over 70 years the Israelis, the UN, and most people around the world have been arguing that a two-state solution is the only outcome that could achieve permanent peace.

 

There is one problem: the Palestinian leadership and most of the Palestinians, along with a large number of Muslim extremists, don’t want a two-state solution. Their goal is one state, one people, and the Middle East altogether cleansed of Jews. It’s pretty hard to find a compromise with people who want you dead and gone.

 

Many well-meaning people don’t really understand this fact. They have been educated to believe that Israel has been the obstacle to Middle East peace, which explains why so many people have mixed feelings about the conflict and why there is so much sympathy for the Palestinians.

 

Those ignorant of the long and sad history of peace negotiations in the region may be forgiven because they have been taught a false history by academia and the MSM.

 

The Palestinians don’t want to negotiate. They want to rearm and reposition so they can strike again. Duplication of 10/7, time and again, is their strategy.

 

This is not hyperbole. This is exactly what Hamas says all the time.

 

 

 

 

{snip}

 

You can see the results. Those people tearing down the flyers of hostages aren’t hoping for a cease-fire or two-state solution. They don’t believe Jews are human. They believe that babies and seniors should be prisoners of Hamas if it helps the barbarians get what they want. They justify the rape, torture, and murder of civilians as #resistance, calling for the eradication of Israel (from the river to the sea!).

 

These are antisemites. And for them, the cease-fire is exactly what Hamas hopes: a time to rearm and regroup. Their goal is the elimination of Israel and the Jews, and they deserve all the contempt we can heap on them.

 

The West has incubated hate by allowing our universities and now schools to become places of radical ideology, and it will take years of effort–which seems unlikely to occur–to root it out. Radical surgery is required, because this ideology is like gangrene. You must chop off the dead limb before the infection spreads even further.

 

 

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/11/05/no-they-arent-peace-activists-they-are-antisemites-n590017

[TSOL]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And LGBTQ+ and Jews.  But it's for them they've been told to cheerlead...

 

 

For real! Some of these guys are such a bunch of flip flops, 

@Tiberius do you know the arab world will literally behead you for being a homosexual? And youre bleeding heart is crying for these people? 

Come on man! Stand up for SOMEthing! Don't be a flip flop

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, TSOL said:

For real! Some of these guys are such a bunch of flip flops, 

@Tiberius do you know the arab world will literally behead you for being a homosexual? And youre bleeding heart is crying for these people? 

Come on man! Stand up for SOMEthing! Don't be a flip flop

 

Less of being flip-flops.  Netanyahu is considered far-right and Trump had an issue with extremist Muslims.  So naturally their only reaction is to support a group who goes against their core social values.  It's really fascinating to see.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, TSOL said:

 

 

For real! Some of these guys are such a bunch of flip flops, 

@Tiberius do you know the arab world will literally behead you for being a homosexual? And youre bleeding heart is crying for these people? 

Come on man! Stand up for SOMEthing! Don't be a flip flop

Religion is kind of stupid, so what? We are still working on  the women hating, gay bashing, and general hating of everything that is different, they will get over it too if they get democracy. 

 

I don't see you hating the Orthodox christians in Russia for being the same way. Now why is that? 

[B-Man]

 

 

ROGER KIMBALL: This Time Israel Will Finish The Job.

 

https://amgreatness.com/2023/11/05/this-time-all-signs-are-that-israel-will-finish-the-job/