2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

That part's probably true, and Josh really hasn't taken advantage of those situations. I didn't really convey it well in my post there but my point was more that I believe Josh does a lot to make up for bad coaching and lack of scheme and WR's that can't get open and I don't think other teams fans or the media in general really see that, a lot of them just buy into the narrative that he's just a big turnover machine for no apparent reason. 

 

I do think he's had more of those bad reads and missed opportunities this season but I also think they discount what he's working with here at times. 

Thats fair but every fanbase complains about the coaching. Allen is amazing and we are so lucky to have him. But while the national media might be too “negative,” I think there are fans who never think anything is his fault. 
 

it’s wild because it’s still a top 10 offense but this team keeps shooting itself in the foot with dumb plays. If it can clean it up, they will be extremely hard to beat.

[SoonerBillsFan]

He isn't winning the NFL MVP. Its crazy talk still happens on this subject.  Too many turnovers and back to back statistically bad games for a QB trying to win MVP. 

[Brand J]

6 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Are you including the Jets game that Josh lost on his own? He sucked against Denver too. You can’t lead the league in turnovers and be MVP. Lamar is the MVP. Not even close. 

Second in turnovers to Sam Howell, but yeah the argument is sound. If he’s going to have that many turnovers, he also needs to almost single-handedly be the reason the Bills beat teams. The irony is that our offense has looked better under Brady since the ball has been taken out of Josh’s hands. Pass game still looks uneven though, even with an improved commitment to the run game. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

He had Gabe wide open in the endzone in consecutive weeks.  Missed him/miscommunication on 1 and didn't see him on the other.  

 

At the time of this throw Lamar had a pocket the size of a meteor crater and the WR had no one around for like 15 yards.  This is their primary receiver and no one covered this dude.  There is a difference between wide open of a couple yards with no QB pressure to worry about and wide open like this

[DCOrange]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Let me know when Allen has an offensive design and a #1 or even a #2 or any damn receiver that Josh can throw to like this and he will be MVP too.

 

Allen's had better receiving options than Lamar maybe every season of his career lol

[Buftex]

Who cares if he wins the MVP?  I'll settle for a Super Bowl...sure Josh would be happy with that too!

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Allen's had better receiving options than Lamar maybe every season of his career lol

 

I don't care.  I see these plays with busted open receivers every week.  I'm not saying we never have them but its pretty damn rare.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

At the time of this throw Lamar had a pocket the size of a meteor crater and the WR had no one around for like 15 yards.  This is their primary receiver and no one covered this dude.  There is a difference between wide open of a couple yards with no QB pressure to worry about and wide open like this

Yea, at least one of Allen's misses to Gabe Davis was a cover zero all out blitz where he had 0.5 seconds to throw the ball before getting clobbered. Maybe Davis should recognize the situation and look back?

[Blank Stare]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't care.  I see these plays with busted open receivers every week.  I'm not saying we never have them but it’s pretty damn rare.

It’s amazing how rare it is. Hardly ever happens to this team. Just about every damn yard is like pulling teeth. Amazing to me that even the best QBs on other teams have these opportunities either via scheme or broken plays. I don’t think our scheme since Daboll left has done Josh any favors on creating these types of opportunities. So, either defenses are so locked in and never make any mistakes against us, the scheme doesn’t put our guys in a position to consistently succeed and/or create these opportunities, deficient skill position talent, or it’s there but Josh doesn’t see it. The reality is that it’s probably a combination of those (or related factors), though I’d probably put a tad more weight on skill position talent and scheme weaknesses. Josh is also not seeing the field clearly this year, so I’m sure he has been missing on his share of some of these opportunities too. 

Edited January 2 by Blank Stare

[balln]

I’m thinking. Eye test wise. This has been his WORST season as a pro besides rookie year. He is so jittery , uncomfortable and has been the most inaccurate I can remember. Deep , intermediate and short. All year. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't care.  I see these plays with busted open receivers every week.  I'm not saying we never have them but its pretty damn rare.

We have those plays every week. We had at least 3 of them against the pats and zero TDs resulted. Kincaid was wide open and if Allen hits him in stride he's gone. Instead, he has to slow down so it's just a big gainer. On a throw to the left side of the field he had a wide open Shakiir on the right and he had Diggs wide open for a score down the field and missed him completely.

Guys like Rodgers, Brady, manning, Brees would never miss those passes in their prime. You don't get many of them and it's imperative you hit them, because they change the game.

Edited January 2 by BullBuchanan

[Airseven]

1 hour ago, balln said:

I’m thinking. Eye test wise. This has been his WORST season as a pro besides rookie year. He is so jittery , uncomfortable and has been the most inaccurate I can remember. Deep , intermediate and short. All year. 

I’m told rushing TDs can bridge that gap to MVP…

 

🤷‍♂️

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree about the playoffs. But we have become so blind by the stats. I’d rather have Allen have Jackson’s year and limit his turnovers, which could have lead to more wins.  I also know those risks make Allen great but it’s not honest to think they haven’t hurt us too. 

I would rather have Allen's proven track record in the playoffs then his having Jackson's TO's this season.  BTW Jackson turned over the ball 13 times this season.  Less then Allen but not insignificant.  I would also rather have Allen's durability as Jackson in back to back seasons suffered season ending injuries which negatively impacted how those seasons turned out.

 

And I agree that fewer TO's by Allen would have led to more Bills wins.  But also stopping two very bad offenses, NE & Denver, from going down the field in the last 2 minutes of the game to beat the Bills after Allen had secured the lead kept us from being 12 - 4 and chasing he Ravens for the #1 seed.

 

 

1 hour ago, balln said:

I’m thinking. Eye test wise. This has been his WORST season as a pro besides rookie year. He is so jittery , uncomfortable and has been the most inaccurate I can remember. Deep , intermediate and short. All year. 

Well your memory appears to be flawed if you think Allen is worse this year then he was in 2019.

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

We have those plays every week. We had at least 3 of them against the pats and zero TDs resulted. Kincaid was wide open and if Allen hits him in stride he's gone. Instead, he has to slow down so it's just a big gainer. On a throw to the left side of the field he had a wide open Shakiir on the right and he had Diggs wide open for a score down the field and missed him completely.

Guys like Rodgers, Brady, manning, Brees would never miss those passes in their prime. You don't get many of them and it's imperative you hit them, because they change the game.

 

Care to show me those plays.  Both pocket and how wide open the guys were.

[BullBuchanan]

14 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Care to show me those plays.  Both pocket and how wide open the guys were.

Nope. You don't remember them? They all had a guaranteed TD if the ball was on the money.

[QLBillsFan]

Lamar is the QB on the best team so he deserves it. I could care less about awards. Josh has been on the whole strong in the playoffs and that’s what I think we will see. Lamar has not yet played well.. we shall see. 

42 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Care to show me those plays.  Both pocket and how wide open the guys were.

I have some misses over the past few weeks. But I only saw the Diggs bomb of these mentioned. He just overthrew him by a yard. Didn’t want to under throw for pick. I didn’t see Kincaid wide open and the Pats had pressure all day. The O needs to play better and he is the leader. I’m confident he will dial it in. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Nope. You don't remember them? They all had a guaranteed TD if the ball was on the money.

 

Yeah, I know Josh missed some throws but those plays were nothing like this.  This wr wasn't even covered.  He had a good 15 yards of separation from any coverage.  Lamar had a crater size pocket with zero pressure.  That is nothing like what Josh had.

[Reks Ryan]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:05 PM, JayBaller10 said:

Going into the last regular season game of the year, Allen ranks:

 

12th in completion percentage (65.6)

7th in yards (3,947)

11th in yds/att (7.3)

7th in passing TDs (27)

2nd highest INTs (16)

16th in passer rating (91.5)

That's a good illustration.   He doesnt rank in the top 5 of any passing category, except interceptions.   And if you look just at th3 last month, he's in the bottom 5 of passer rating.  And that's with alot of back-ups playing. 

 

Most important is winning, and Allen's running and some timely 1st down passing conversions are big reason they've won 4 in row.  But you can't have a QB in the MVP discussion that's not close to a league leader in any passing stats.

[Alphadawg7]

Josh Allen could throw 7 TD's this week and run for 2 more and he couldn't win the MVP anymore.  

 

I suggest everyone turn their focus on getting playoff Josh back from 2021 and hope he can get to the big show and win SB MVP...regular season MVP ship has sailed and its meaningless anyways outside of me winning my every year Allen MVP bet I make the past 3 seasons.  

9 minutes ago, Reks Ryan said:

That's a good illustration.   He doesnt rank in the top 5 of any passing category, except interceptions.   And if you look just at th3 last month, he's in the bottom 5 of passer rating.  And that's with alot of back-ups playing. 

 

Most important is winning, and Allen's running and some timely 1st down passing conversions are big reason they've won 4 in row.  But you can't have a QB in the MVP discussion that's not close to a league leader in any passing stats.

 

Make no mistake about it, Josh's odds of winning MVP are zero.  Its Lamars.  

 

BUT...this is NOT a complete picture of Allen.  Its utterly absurd to talk about Allen's production and not include his legs.  If you do, he is at or near the top of the league in total yards and he has most total TD's in the league.  

 

Lamar is gonna win MVP and his production of his legs is being counted in that decision too.  So to not include it for Josh is absurd and like talking about McCaffrey as ONLY a RB and not taking into account his receiving production for example.  

[FireChans]

35 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh Allen could throw 7 TD's this week and run for 2 more and he couldn't win the MVP anymore.  

 

I suggest everyone turn their focus on getting playoff Josh back from 2021 and hope he can get to the big show and win SB MVP...regular season MVP ship has sailed and its meaningless anyways outside of me winning my every year Allen MVP bet I make the past 3 seasons.  

 

Make no mistake about it, Josh's odds of winning MVP are zero.  Its Lamars.  

 

BUT...this is NOT a complete picture of Allen.  Its utterly absurd to talk about Allen's production and not include his legs.  If you do, he is at or near the top of the league in total yards and he has most total TD's in the league.  

 

Lamar is gonna win MVP and his production of his legs is being counted in that decision too.  So to not include it for Josh is absurd and like talking about McCaffrey as ONLY a RB and not taking into account his receiving production for example.  

I placed a bet for Josh to win MVP before the Chiefs game.

 

I had a cash out opportunity this week. Offering still pretty good money. 
 

To me, that says Vegas still thinks he has a decent shot.